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Why Aren't We Talking About Union Busting?


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#31 Clak

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:23 PM

http://www.tennessea...teachers-union-

I should call my aunt and uncle, they're both teachers. I'm sure they're pissed.
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#32 cochesecochese

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:51 PM

I can't wait to see bob's response to this.


A. He'll run distraction (point fingers like in the last thread)
B. Silence
C. He'll flame endlessly in order to get the thread to tank

Let's play it by ear.

The reason we arent hearing about this is because the remaining unionized members of the workforce is too low. 30 years of losing that war will do that to you.


Not only are our numbers too low but we are too unorganized in a broader sense. My local doesn't even make a show of support towards other unions in our industry if they are out of state. I'm in grocery and it was heartbreaking watching co-workers sucking down that Snapple during the Mott's strike. Whenever I saw someone doing that and explained the situation they would always purchase something else but they wouldn't have even known unless an individual (rather than the union proper) told them about it in the first place. Disheartening to say the least.

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#33 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:28 PM

collective bargaining is always on the table, provided the workforce can actually create solidarity.

Walker's folly came by threatening to use the National Guard for labor instead of simply hiring scabs, like Reagan did w/ the air traffic controller's union. That was a horrible gamble.

But if you frame it as "unions cost taxpayers money, so let's hire people who are willing to work," then you'd create the kind of chaos that could defeat unions.

Not that I'd advocate such a thing.

It's heartening to see people fight back against unionized labor, and truly heartening to see so little disagreement on this forum.
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#34 nasum

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:35 PM

It's heartening to see people fight back against unionized labor, and truly heartening to see so little disagreement on this forum.


does not compute, do you mean disheartening to see people fight against unionized labor? It just doesn't jive with what you've said before.
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#35 Don Chubo

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:36 PM

http://www.jsonline..../116355379.html
From the Book of Deluded and/or Ridiculous, Vol. 1, page 1, paragraph 1:

Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.


Should we start with Biden, Hank Johnson, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Tony Wiener and work from there? Dumbass.

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#36 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:39 PM

does not compute, do you mean disheartening to see people fight against unionized labor? It just doesn't jive with what you've said before.


3 hours of sleep, sorry. What I meant to say what it's heartening to see so many people here supporting the unions fights against the governor in WI.
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#37 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:46 PM

One more thing on the whole Wisconsin issue. We're looking at a deficit of 3.6 billion dollars this upcoming fiscal year. This "bill" will save us $300 million over the next 2 years, $150 million a year. Walker keeps claiming that we need to pass this bill because unions _____ and unions ______, and this is the only way to balance the budget. I'm no mathematician, but $150 million saved next year =\= 3.6 billion.

I'd rather him stop beating around the bush claiming that this is going to balance the state budget (when in essence it's a 4% of the deficit we're running. I'm just wondering who is next to get the shaft, considering we still have 96% of the deficit to take care of.

6 weeks in and already regret my vote. Live and learn I guess.

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#38 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:54 PM

I imagine you elected him precisely to see the state budget balanced. What did you expect (i.e., what are you getting that you don't want, and what aren't you getting that you do want)?

What would you target to cover the remaining 96%, in short?
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#39 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:54 PM

http://www.jsonline..../116381289.html

Madison — Sen. Tim Cullen (D-Janesville) confirmed Thursday that Democrats will boycott the Senate action today on Gov. Walker's budget-repair bill in efforts to block a quorum and keep the measure from passing.
Because 20 senators of the 33-member house are needed to be present to pass a fiscal bill, 19 Republicans will not be enough to pass the budget repair bill without a Democrat present.
"They can't pass this bill if there's not a Democrat in the chamber," Cullen said.


That's what I'm talking about lol.

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#40 nasum

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:57 PM

no worries, I just wanted to make sure that I didn't lose my mind somewhere along the line.

Good lord that JSOnline article is nutty. The comments are even better.
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#41 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:03 PM

Well, to be fair, grading all day yesterday, eyehategod show last night, 3 hours of sleep, and grading all day today.

so if i start to sound like a conservative, it's the sleep dep.
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#42 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:08 PM

I imagine you elected him precisely to see the state budget balanced. What did you expect (i.e., what are you getting that you don't want, and what aren't you getting that you do want)?

What would you target to cover the remaining 96%, in short?


More or less he promised an audit of all state government agencies (to determine what could get slashed, what could stay), was going to merge multiple agencies that did more or less the same thing to save cash, was going to require lobbyists to report any activities they did in regards to trying to get governments contracts/grants. He also was big on shrinking the size of government, and accross the board budget cuts.

Tom Barrett was his opponent, and when it comes down to it my vote for Walker was a vote against Barrett. Barrett ran Milwaukee into the ground, and was buddy buddy with our last governor, Jim Doyle, who did a great job (of trashing the state budget).

Lesser of two evils I suppose. Sigh.

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#43 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:10 PM

Ah. But instead of doing what he promised, he just went full speed ahead into partisan assaults in the name of fiscal responsibility.

Yeesh.
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#44 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:44 PM

Yeah, pretty much. He's using the I'm fixing the budget (All 4% of it!) line as a shield to attack our states unions.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#45 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:08 PM

New twist. Senate democrats have all literally left the state in order for the vote to not happen.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#46 mykevermin

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:52 PM

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#47 Quillion

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:14 PM

Well... That's one way you could go with coverage.

They probably headlined it that way because the DEMOCRATS DON'T CARE ABOUT FISCAL DISCIPLINE headline is a little played out.

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#48 irideabike

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:43 PM

Well, to be fair, grading all day yesterday, eyehategod show last night, 3 hours of sleep, and grading all day today.

so if i start to sound like a conservative, it's the sleep dep.


Don't worry, you won't have to deal with me for awhile again after this topic runs its course lol.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#49 IRHari

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:36 PM

Goddamn that's a horrible way to frame it. At first I thought that was from FoxNation.com, FNC's other website that is dumbed down to talk radio format.
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#50 vic_x51

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:51 PM

The reason we arent hearing about this is because the remaining unionized members of the workforce is too low. 30 years of losing that war will do that to you.



You seem to be suggesting that unions play a part in lowering product quality above that of the guy upstairs who is trying to cut corners as much as he can legally get away with, and illegally to the extent that he figure he wont get caught.

On the issue of costs, even in the most labor intensive products, labor isnt a very high percentage of the final price. Its like 10% for cars. That marginally higher cost to the consumer is more than offset by having workers being able to afford things.

So that brings your objections down to production speed, which is not a huge issue to the consumer. On the supply side, not being able to keep up with demand is a problem businesses would kill to have right now.

The main problem that is preventing the competitive pricing you want is our broken trade policy. The number of media entities covering our trade policy make the number covering unions look like the ones covering Egypt. It could very well be the case that the likes of Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell have never even uttered the words trade deficit on the air. Fox could at least bring it up to blame it on Obama or something.


dude i don't really care whatever the reason, i just don't want my beloved cars to phase out for good. and feel both r to blame :bomb:

#51 Kirin Lemon

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 12:55 AM

We're looking at a deficit of 3.6 billion dollars this upcoming fiscal year.


Yeah, and about that deficit...

http://markpocanwi.b...-crisisaka.html

We found out yesterday after our briefing with non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau, the $3.6 billion deficit in the next budget that Governor Walker and the media has been repeating is a MANUFACTURED CRISIS. The number is based on $3.9 billion in new spending requests by agencies, a 6.2% increase. I don’t think there is a member in the legislature that would vote for that. In fact, I asked Director Lang when was the last time we gave agencies exactly what they requested and was told he couldn’t think of one and he’s been here decades.


And then there's this...

http://host.madison....7c8b2aaaf6.html

In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.

The Fiscal Bureau memo -- which readers can access at http://legis.wiscons...Vos&Darling.pdf -- makes it clear that Walker did not inherit a budget that required a repair bill.


Nothing like faking a budget crisis as an excuse to wage war on unions and the middle class!
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#52 UncleBob

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:00 AM

New twist. Senate democrats have all literally left the state in order for the vote to not happen.


While I don't agree with a lot of the going-ons in this situation, I wonder where all the "up or down vote!" people are now...
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#53 RedvsBlue

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:03 AM

New twist. Senate democrats have all literally left the state in order for the vote to not happen.


Didn't this same thing happen in Texas a couple years ago too?

#54 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:05 AM

While I don't agree with a lot of the going-ons in this situation, I wonder where all the "up or down vote!" people are now...


I'm here. They should go back and vote no. Majority rules, no exceptions.

#55 IRHari

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:34 AM

I'm here. They should go back and vote no. Majority rules, no exceptions.


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Edited by IRHari, 18 February 2011 - 06:59 AM.

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#56 mykevermin

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:40 AM

We can talk about up or down votes when we get elected officials with the guts to put genuine filibuster reform on the table.

In the meantime, I'm gonna sit back and laugh at the idea that Gov. Walker sent police to find the Democrats. He sent members of the state employee unions to find the people necessary for a vote to bust up state employee unions.

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#57 Kirin Lemon

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 02:05 AM

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This is particularly amusing because of:

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#58 UncleBob

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 03:50 AM

Warning: Very Foul Language
Spoiler

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#59 xycury

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:15 AM

I don't see why they can't debate over the cuts. When asked, the majority feel fine with taking the consessions.

And Walker never even hints at taking the collective powers away, keeping it like a secret.

Wouldn't it be fine to put a resolution that either take the consessions or lose 6000.... ? I would think if the unions were that tight, they wouldn't want anyone to go.

And the final sucker punch, keeping all those powers for the cops and firefighters. How long will that last?

And of course it's permanant.... if this was going to save only 300 million, a drop in the ol bucket... why not effecitvely make it expire in two years since he's budgeting for NOW instead of FOREVER.

#60 mykevermin

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:57 AM

Warning: Very Foul Language

Spoiler


1) Where's the intimidation alluded to in the video title?

2) Oh, any ideology has people who speak quite crassly or aren't intellectually deep. Us on the left are proud of the fact that, despite knowing we have them, we don't elect them to office or treat them as vanguards of a movement.

3) Do you have a point to make?
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