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CAGLS: Madden 13 Gentlemen's League - We Finished! Thanks for Playing!


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#8221 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:03 AM

N8 is right. There was no rule against it per say. Granted we did talk about it.

A lot

But it wasn't officially a strikeable offence. If he does get one, then everyone who didt it in the past would also have to get one to be fair.

Also, I'm sure this won't get me popular votes, but we seriously can't be jumping and pointing fingers when someone doesn't play exactly how we think they should. IE: throwing on a 3rd and 5 in the 4th while up by 21. If it happens more than once or twice and they're going for bombs. Yeah. Is get pissed too. But it they do it to move the chains. Who cares. We've got to have some thicker skin on things. I'm sure N8 had better things to do then trying to be our dad and dealing with us when people hurt our feelings.

Unless their violently breaking a rule (70-13 score) let's just relax a bit. Everyone's so uptight about what's breaking certain rules they we're making a scientific formula on what to do in the 4th quarter. It's a game. A video game. I play it to have fun. Lets relax and enjoy it.


I appreciate the support...but the second half of what you said actually goes against the system we already have in place. All those discussions and policies were drawn up for how you play the 4th quarter against a human opponent (and now against the CPU as well). I'd like us to be able to "relax a little". But that's going to mean something different to everybody.

That's where the "I didn't feel a 28 point lead was safe" arguments come in...and they have happened. It's tedious as hell being that specific and telling people not to throw the ball when they're up by 3 scores in the 4th...but it gives people a tangible means of understanding what is considered a "big lead"...and when they should be easing off the gas. It's sad, but some people wouldn't have a clue otherwise. And if somebody isn't following that, they need to be called out on it.
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#8222 slofton

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:09 AM

I get the system. Just not a fan of the complaining after every game if something only happens once.

#8223 FrankySox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:15 AM

Saying that i am worried to throw the ball wasn't meant as a defense, it's just seriously how I feel. I have been extra cautious. I kept running the ball. I ran it more times then I usually do because I was in the lead. I think I ran it 20-25 times. I usually only run 5-10 times in a game, because I am not good at it. I just happened to have running success in this game for some reason.

I was getting stopped in the 4th quarter from running, and I was playing defense. He was passing in the 4th (in obvious passing situations since he was behind) and since I knew he was throwing I kept stopping him.

The score was 45 to 10 and I honestly only remember scoring 7 points in the entire second half. I remember the score still being 45-10 with 2 minutes to go. I had the ball and kept running. I got to 1st and goal and took a knee to end the game.

I guess the frustrating thing is that it's impossible to prove either side and I know that I was being cautious. There were plenty of times that I could have scored more points but I opted not to. Not that I want to be praised for that because that's what you SHOULD do.


C'mon now! If you were being extra cautious it sure didn't seem like it. We both know you went out of your way to put points on the board. I threw picks sure but did you get a return on any of them or did my guys just tackle you right away. Third and two in the second half of the fourth quarter and you throw a TD up 35-10. The final scored ended up being 45-10, you left the field goal off. I was the one who finished with the ball and downed it to finish the game, which you could have done but elected to kick a field goal.
CAREER STATS: 521 HR, .301 BA, .419 OBP, 2 MVPs, 0 STEROIDS
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#8224 irideabike

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:19 AM

For comparison I think I ended the game with kaster today around his 15 and kneeling being up however much I was obviously in striking distance, purposely letting myself be tackled before starting the kneel down process. Also ran a interception that would have been a pick six in the fourth out of bounds well instead of running the score up.

#8225 FrankySox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:21 AM

For comparison I think I ended the game with kaster today around his 15 and kneeling being up however much I was obviously in striking distance, purposely letting myself be tackled before starting the kneel down process. Also ran a interception that would have been a pick six in the fourth out of bounds well instead of running the score up.


Still wish I could have gotten our game in...next time!!!
CAREER STATS: 521 HR, .301 BA, .419 OBP, 2 MVPs, 0 STEROIDS
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#8226 irideabike

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:22 AM

For sure man I look forward to it! Like I said I'm also always up for a good scrimmage with league guys just gotta find where my wife put my mic when she was "cleaning" aka shoving things where I can't find them lol.

#8227 Superstar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:22 AM

C'mon now! If you were being extra cautious it sure didn't seem like it. We both know you went out of your way to put points on the board. I threw picks sure but did you get a return on any of them or did my guys just tackle you right away. Third and two in the second half of the fourth quarter and you throw a TD up 35-10. The final scored ended up being 45-10, you left the field goal off. I was the one who finished with the ball and downed it to finish the game, which you could have done but elected to kick a field goal.



Like I said man. If i was playing to blow the score up I could have put more points up. No offense to your playing or anything, but my offense and your defense didn't match up. I am not talking about skill, but player wise.

The picks put me in good field position every time. One of them I got a 20 yard return on.

I remember having the ball last at the goal line. I remember kneeling the ball down and messaging you saying "gg" while time expired.

#8228 FrankySox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:30 AM

Like I said man. If i was playing to blow the score up I could have put more points up. No offense to your playing or anything, but my offense and your defense didn't match up. I am not talking about skill, but player wise.

The picks put me in good field position every time. One of them I got a 20 yard return on.

I remember having the ball last at the goal line. I remember kneeling the ball down and messaging you saying "gg" while time expired.


You scored every time you had the ball, so not sure how it could have been worse. Also had I seen an effort from you to shorten the game in the fourth I wouldn't have been passing as much but would have called running plays to get the game over with quicker. That's all I'll say, it happened it's over with, you definitely played better than me and deserved to win the game. I'd also say there is a definite reason you didn't get a reply back to your GG message on XBL, which I always do.
CAREER STATS: 521 HR, .301 BA, .419 OBP, 2 MVPs, 0 STEROIDS
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#8229 Superstar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:34 AM

You scored every time you had the ball, so not sure how it could have been worse. Also had I seen an effort from you to shorten the game in the fourth I wouldn't have been passing as much but would have called running plays to get the game over with quicker. That's all I'll say, it happened it's over with, you definitely played better than me and deserved to win the game. I'd also say there is a definite reason you didn't get a reply back to your GG message on XBL, which I always do.


Well considering you had 2 interceptions on me, it would be impossible to score every time I had the ball. It also shows you had 2 punt returns, so I had to punt it twice. So thats 4 times I didn't score right there.

It's over with and up to N8 to decide what to do. I really have nothing more to say in the matter.

#8230 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:42 AM

I get the system. Just not a fan of the complaining after every game if something only happens once.


I couldn't agree more. The idealist view, I suppose, is that with enough rules there won't be anything to complain about...heh...right? Right? I'm at least trying.

Well considering you had 2 interceptions on me, it would be impossible to score every time I had the ball. It also shows you had 2 punt returns, so I had to punt it twice. So thats 4 times I didn't score right there.

It's over with and up to N8 to decide what to do. I really have nothing more to say in the matter.


Yeah, we definitely don't need any more discussion of it in here. The reason I haven't addressed it yet is because I'm looking into it, and I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. But bickering back and forth isn't going to accomplish anything and is definitely not needed.
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#8231 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:05 AM

Saying that i am worried to throw the ball wasn't meant as a defense, it's just seriously how I feel. I have been extra cautious. I kept running the ball. I ran it more times then I usually do because I was in the lead. I think I ran it 20-25 times. I usually only run 5-10 times in a game, because I am not good at it. I just happened to have running success in this game for some reason.

I was getting stopped in the 4th quarter from running, and I was playing defense. He was passing in the 4th (in obvious passing situations since he was behind) and since I knew he was throwing I kept stopping him.

The score was 45 to 10 and I honestly only remember scoring 7 points in the entire second half. I remember the score still being 45-10 with 2 minutes to go. I had the ball and kept running. I got to 1st and goal and took a knee to end the game.

I guess the frustrating thing is that it's impossible to prove either side and I know that I was being cautious. There were plenty of times that I could have scored more points but I opted not to. Not that I want to be praised for that because that's what you SHOULD do.


I'm sorry, man. But when I read this, I'm just struck with this overwhelming feeling of somebody who doesn't get it. You "seriously feel" like you don't know when it's ok to throw the ball...even though it's outlined with specific examples in the OP?

"...to me, a comfortable lead is 3 scores. Two scores can happen pretty quickly (TD + onside kick). So, to me it wouldn't be reasonable to get upset at somebody for throwing the ball (on any down) with a 2 score lead."

Even just looking at this on the surface, If you're up 35-10 in the 4th...what reason do you have to be throwing the ball? How do you not see this as overly aggressive? You've got a 25 point lead (which is 4 scores)...and have held him to 10 points the ENTIRE game. You don't NEED that 1st down. As you said, he's gotta throw the ball to get back in it, and is likely going to force some bad passes. Run the ball and punt...get an interception...run the ball and punt...game over. What is wrong with that?

I did as much digging as I could to figure out where the inconsistencies were. Not that this really applies to the situation, other than to call into question your credibility....you scored 24 points in the second half. That's a bit more than 7. Honestly though, the "trying to score" argument really isn't what it's about.

I was also informed that the play clock wasn't being run down to less than 5 seconds in the 4th, that the TD in the 4th was on a pass downfield, and that there was some kind of field goal discrepancy at the end of the game where the clock could have been run out if a knee was taken on the previous 3rd down.

But instead, a play was ran, resulting in time being left on the clock..."forcing" the field goal, and giving Frankie the ball back to take the final knee of the game. You have to understand that these things add up and don't really cast you in a very positive light here. Yes, I don't know 100% of the facts. But I know the score was 35-10 going into the 4th quarter and that your opponent didn't feel like you let off the gas. Unless you want to accuse him of outright lying, this doesn't follow the policy in the OP on how to close out a game...and warrants a strike.

I'm not looking for a witch hunt here, man. But if somebody comes to me with a complaint, I've got to look into it, and try to put myself in both people's shoes. And I don't understand the argument of "needing" 1st downs with a 25 point lead with less than 5 minutes in the game. Even if you strip away the other allegations, that part just doesn't make sense. On the bright side, after all is said and done, this is just a warning strike, and doesn't have to mean anything at all. I just hope that we can get on the same page of recognizing when a game is put away, and finishing it the right way.
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#8232 Konfusion

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:10 AM

So, I'm either punishing him retroactively for something that wasn't a rule...or I let him know that it wasn't right and won't be tolerated in the future, and fix the loophole in the OP. Either way, the damage is done. The game can't be unplayed. So, coming in here bitching about it isn't going to do anything except divert the attention to you...which is now causing me to argue with you about it. It's not helpful. And it's not a great road for us to be going down.

People keep comparing it to playing against a human opponent, but it just isn't the same thing. You're not wrong. But it's a different situation...and there wasn't a policy for that situation. The judgments that you're all making are arbitrary. If I give him a strike for this, then it sets a precedent for me giving a strike to anyone who does anything we don't like whether there's a rule against it or not. That's chaos.


You say you would set a precedent for giving strikes, what about a precedent for letting people exploit things that are clearly wrong and getting away with it? By not giving him a strike, you are sending a message to everyone that it is okay if you take advantage of rules that aren't clear cut. Wouldn't be surprised if people start going through the rules and try to find loopholes that they can take advantage of because they know nothing will happen to them as long as they find something that supports their case, which can be something as small as a word being left out. The rules say that running up the score will not be tolerated. It doesn't specify CPU or human opponent because it doesn't have to. It doesn't imply "human opponents only" These are "league rules", not "human opponent rules". It also says that in general, the rule is to play like a real NFL coach would. Does that really have to specify CPU or human opponent?

He even said "I know this was going to be brought up." I would bet he said that because in the back of his mind, he knew that he would have to explain why he did what he did. He didn't even use your argument of "no specific CPU rules". He straight up said that the CPU gave him weak pass defense and he was trying to break Mallett's records. It didn't even sound like he was trying to exploit a "loophole". He just decided to air it out all day because the CPU struggled to stop it.

I don't know about you, but I don't want someone doing questionable things in a game with me just because there isn't a clear/specific rule against it. People need to know that it's not okay to do stuff like this and unless they know there are consequences, why not exploit things. As long as you're the first to find the hole in the rules, you are free to exploit it for one game, I guess. You are the commissioner and in the end the decision is up to you, I just want you to fully understand where I am coming from in this. If this is the way you want to run it, I respect that decision, but I can't say I agree.

Also, what does it mean when you say "warning strike"? Is that a warning before the first strike or is it an actual strike?

#8233 Blade3D

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:20 AM

The warning strike is the first strike, there just aren't any consequences for it.

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#8234 AvengedBacklog

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:27 AM

You say you would set a precedent for giving strikes, what about a precedent for letting people exploit things that are clearly wrong and getting away with it? By not giving him a strike, you are sending a message to everyone that it is okay if you take advantage of rules that aren't clear cut. Wouldn't be surprised if people start going through the rules and try to find loopholes that they can take advantage of because they know nothing will happen to them as long as they find something that supports their case, which can be something as small as a word being left out. The rules say that running up the score will not be tolerated. It doesn't specify CPU or human opponent because it doesn't have to. It doesn't imply "human opponents only" These are "league rules", not "human opponent rules". It also says that in general, the rule is to play like a real NFL coach would. Does that really have to specify CPU or human opponent?

He even said "I know this was going to be brought up." I would bet he said that because in the back of his mind, he knew that he would have to explain why he did what he did. He didn't even use your argument of "no specific CPU rules". He straight up said that the CPU gave him weak pass defense and he was trying to break Mallett's records. It didn't even sound like he was trying to exploit a "loophole". He just decided to air it out all day because the CPU struggled to stop it.

I don't know about you, but I don't want someone doing questionable things in a game with me just because there isn't a clear/specific rule against it. People need to know that it's not okay to do stuff like this and unless they know there are consequences, why not exploit things. As long as you're the first to find the hole in the rules, you are free to exploit it for one game, I guess. You are the commissioner and in the end the decision is up to you, I just want you to fully understand where I am coming from in this. If this is the way you want to run it, I respect that decision, but I can't say I agree.

Also, what does it mean when you say "warning strike"? Is that a warning before the first strike or is it an actual strike?


I would agree with this. And in addition, I feel like by giving him the first warning strike it makes it clear that this crap is not to be tolerated. With no strike, next time he has a CPU game (or a shot at a record against a human), whos to say he wont try that again knowing "I can get away with a warning here" and going for the records anyway? I dont see how thats a good situation either. Give him his warning strike so that he at least knows if he goes for records again he will have a 1 game suspension to serve and it may actually help in the long run. Just my $.02.

#8235 billymcdugal

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:30 AM

gotta love the man drama when we can't hate on jay cutler and tebow

#8236 GpNinja

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:33 AM

I've only had like 3 or 4 games were I won by 10+ points. The rest are basically a 1 TD lead. So no I won't be thinking "Oh I didn't get a strike lets put up 70 points again."

#8237 FrankySox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:35 AM

Anyone want to play a practice game?
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#8238 GpNinja

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:37 AM

Anyone want to play a practice game?

I am online if you want too.

#8239 AvengedBacklog

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:38 AM

I've only had like 3 or 4 games were I won by 10+ points. The rest are basically a 1 TD lead. So no I won't be thinking "Oh I didn't get a strike lets put up 70 points again."


Until you have another shot at breaking Mallett's pass record at least.

#8240 Konfusion

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:38 AM

I would agree with this. And in addition, I feel like by giving him the first warning strike it makes it clear that this crap is not to be tolerated. With no strike, next time he has a CPU game (or a shot at a record against a human), whos to say he wont try that again knowing "I can get away with a warning here" and going for the records anyway? I dont see how thats a good situation either. Give him his warning strike so that he at least knows if he goes for records again he will have a 1 game suspension to serve and it may actually help in the long run. Just my $.02.


I'm not saying he will be a repeat offender. I would imagine that if he has a strike, he would be extra careful to not get that suspension. What I am saying is that others will see that there was no penalty for what he did, so others will look for some way to interpret the rules to their advantage. If they know nothing will happen as long as it isn't a clearly defined rule, why not try to find exploits. By giving a strike, you let people know that this won't be tolerated.

#8241 FrankySox

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:39 AM

I am online if you want too.


Ok hoping on, I'll send you a FR
CAREER STATS: 521 HR, .301 BA, .419 OBP, 2 MVPs, 0 STEROIDS
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#8242 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:39 AM

I don't know about you, but I don't want someone doing questionable things in a game with me just because there isn't a clear/specific rule against it. People need to know that it's not okay to do stuff like this and unless they know there are consequences, why not exploit things. As long as you're the first to find the hole in the rules, you are free to exploit it for one game, I guess. You are the commissioner and in the end the decision is up to you, I just want you to fully understand where I am coming from in this. If this is the way you want to run it, I respect that decision, but I can't say I agree.

Also, what does it mean when you say "warning strike"? Is that a warning before the first strike or is it an actual strike?


I would agree with this. And in addition, I feel like by giving him the first warning strike it makes it clear that this crap is not to be tolerated. With no strike, next time he has a CPU game (or a shot at a record against a human), whos to say he wont try that again knowing "I can get away with a warning here" and going for the records anyway? I dont see how thats a good situation either. Give him his warning strike so that he at least knows if he goes for records again he will have a 1 game suspension to serve and it may actually help in the long run. Just my $.02.


The problem is you guys aren't coming up with any reasonable suggestions other than "who cares...punish him!" I can't say enough that I don't disagree that CPU and human games should be approached the same way. But until recently, it really wasn't something we had to worry about very often.

But trying to say that people don't view CPU games the same as they view human games is silly. How many of you flip into the endzone against the CPU? Why do it? Because who cares. Now, I realize, that doesn't affect things like XP...but you get my point. It's just a different mentality. At least now, I have a backing where I can tell people they HAVE to approach the game the same way, instead of just that they "should".

As for "what's stopping him from doing it again and just taking his warning strike? Well...this is.


*Commissioner reserves the right to immediately ban any player who goes out of his way to cause trouble and undermine the enjoyment of the league.



If he's found to be doing it again, I'd say that's a pretty blatant offence of undermining the league and something he KNOWS he shouldn't be doing. So, in that way...if you want to call this a half-strike, fine, whatever. The way I see it, he's been warned about doing this...but it doesn't mean if he stands somebody up for a game or flips into the endzone against a human opponent that he gets suspended. It's meant to be a compromise...if anybody can find a way to appreciate that at all.
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#8243 CAGLeagueSports

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:40 AM

And to wrap this all up...we have advanced to Week 14! The deadline is 2/23! Lets all move on from here, ok?
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#8244 n8rockerasu

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:53 AM

I'm not saying he will be a repeat offender. I would imagine that if he has a strike, he would be extra careful to not get that suspension. What I am saying is that others will see that there was no penalty for what he did, so others will look for some way to interpret the rules to their advantage. If they know nothing will happen as long as it isn't a clearly defined rule, why not try to find exploits. By giving a strike, you let people know that this won't be tolerated.


You don't think people have been doing this in every Madden game in every league ever? Trying to prevent people from exploiting loopholes and abusing the game will always be a continuous struggle. Just the nature of the beast. But you'll have to forgive me for thinking we already have one of the best systems of rules and consequences that I've ever seen. But some people will always do whatever it takes to win...whether that's abusing HB screens, 5 wide streaks, or pulling their cord when they're losing so they can get a fresh start. I do my best to shield this league from as much douchebaggery as possible.

#8245 Doomtime

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:12 AM

It's like Doom's bullshit excuse when he ran 480 yards on a team in the other league because he wanted the record. One of the reasons I stuck to just this league is I don't want any part of the cheese that takes place in madden and this league has by far been the cleanest I've played against.


Um, like, it was 460 yards Brony.

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#8246 Konfusion

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:14 AM

You don't think people have been doing this in every Madden game in every league ever? Trying to prevent people from exploiting loopholes and abusing the game will always be a continuous struggle. Just the nature of the beast. But you'll have to forgive me for thinking we already have one of the best systems of rules and consequences that I've ever seen. But some people will always do whatever it takes to win...whether that's abusing HB screens, 5 wide streaks, or pulling their cord when they're losing so they can get a fresh start. I do my best to shield this league from as much douchebaggery as possible.


Seems like every other week, we have some discussion about what is okay and what is not okay. If people really thought they were going to be punished, we wouldn't be having these conversations. People who look to take advantage would be too scared of having their CPU controlled team be destroyed by a human opponent, they would probably stay away from questionable tactics. The rule of "play like an NFL coach" is really the biggest rule in my opinion and a very simple one that I believe everyone actually understands, despite what they might say to defend their actions.

EDIT: I am definitely not saying this is a dirty league or anything. I personally have only had a few minor issues in my games that didn't bother me enough to talk about them. My biggest issue with this whole Bills situation is there are very real consequences for me personally as well as a couple other teams when it comes to XP at the end of the season. Like I said, XP is a huge part of this mode as we know and if I miss out on 25-50k XP bonus for a couple of my guys because the Bills owner decided to pad his stats against the CPU, I'm not very happy about it. I think he knew what he was doing the whole time and if you don't agree with that, then that's the way it is, I guess. I obviously can't prove it. Fortunately for most you, this doesn't matter at all. I have nothing else to add.

Edited by Konfusion, 20 February 2013 - 04:33 AM.


#8247 Blade3D

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:16 AM

Um, like, it was 460 yards Brony.

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LOL, good gif

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#8248 GpNinja

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:27 AM

LOL, good gif


Haha yep, I know in the other league people be getting like 400 yards rushing every game as well as passing.

#8249 irideabike

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:28 AM

That gif was perfect.

#8250 staticz

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:29 AM

Haha yep, I know in the other league people be getting like 400 yards rushing every game as well as passing.


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