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Papa John's Appreciation Day


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#31 RedvsBlue

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:18 PM

I have a high deductible HSA plan so I'm rolling in the fucking insurance now baby. Bring it on, cancer.


Huh, never seen someone wish cancer on themselves to prove a political point but good for you in sticking to your convictions.

#32 Spokker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

Huh, never seen someone wish cancer on themselves to prove a political point but good for you in sticking to your convictions.

I wish cancer on myself so I can see how it all works. Some people say that if you get cancer they'll just fire you anyway and you lose your coverage. Or you'll be denied anyway.

Good thing you can't actually wish cancer on yourself. Boy, would my moles be red and misshapen.

#33 RedvsBlue

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:30 PM

After following your link on the Hostess thread, there was another article stating that it's actually closer to $.04. el oh el

Heh, wouldn't surprise me. This guy just keeps looking more and more petty by the day. His numbers have been all over the place.

#34 RedvsBlue

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

I wish cancer on myself so I can see how it all works...

Good thing you can't actually wish cancer on yourself.

Good thing rhetoric doesn't cause cancer either...

#35 Spokker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

Good thing rhetoric doesn't cause cancer either...


What rhetoric? That health insurance plans are confusing? That the future is uncertain? The sure way to know how your plan is going to perform, how the health system is going to perform, is to have a first-hand account of it. All I have is what I know from when I was a kid. Everything else is speculation.

Yes, people have been fired from their job after getting sick resulting in a loss of coverage which means they wasted all of their money paying those premiums anyway. Yes, people still go bankrupt from medical expenses even if they have insurance. So how to find out how it all works? Get sick. I'm reading my plan because open enrollment was this weekend and I have no idea how it's all going to work.

#36 irideabike

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:12 PM

I have a high deductible HSA plan so I'm rolling in the fucking insurance now baby. Bring it on, cancer.


What a stupid thing to say.

There are no shortcuts. No do-overs. What happened, happened. Trust me. I know. All of this matters.

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#37 camoor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:19 PM

What a stupid thing to say.


No stupider then the people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits. Most dumb people are conservative.

#38 dohdough

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

Cultural narrative is a hell of a drug.

#39 Spokker

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

What a stupid thing to say.

I wish cancer on you. Good thing it doesn't actually work.

#40 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:21 AM

No stupider then the people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits. Most dumb people are conservative.


I've never seen anyone make that claim - do you have any links?

Before you start, stating that there are too many government benefits is not the same as wishing to be poor to get them.

#41 Temporaryscars

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

Oh man, don't ask Camoor for evidence. He HATES that.



#42 RealDeals

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:50 AM

I've never seen anyone make that claim - do you have any links?

Before you start, stating that there are too many government benefits is not the same as wishing to be poor to get them.

http://www.cheapassg...ber.php?u=18118
http://t3.gstatic.co...4wtuy3FpqqoZSRA

Originally Posted by the4thnobleman Posted Image
I need power to come back on! I still need to spend $10 or so to get my $20. Stupid hurricane Sandy Vagina!

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#43 dohdough

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:54 AM

http://www.cheapassg...ber.php?u=18118

HAHAHA...that's the first person I thought of when I read lefty's post!:rofl:

#44 Spokker

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:06 AM

No stupider then the people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits.

And then there are people who are that poor who cannot pull down those sweet government benefits. They are called men. This is one gap that no one gives a shit about addressing. WIC stands for "Women Infants and Children," after all.

#45 camoor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:49 AM

I've never seen anyone make that claim - do you have any links?


JS Mill

#46 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:56 AM

JS Mill


??? No links then, great. You've got nothing.

#47 camoor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:42 AM

??? No links then, great. You've got nothing.


I'll be nice - JS Mill was a philosopher and political theorist. Wiki is your friend

#48 camoor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:47 AM

And then there are people who are that poor who cannot pull down those sweet government benefits. They are called men. This is one gap that no one gives a shit about addressing. WIC stands for "Women Infants and Children," after all.


I was being sarcastic. Being poor is not easy for anyone and we should do more to help out. I'd like to help out all folks but IMHO the safety net should be strongest for children and the elderly (IE the folks who might not be able to take care of themselves)

#49 detectiveconan16

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:39 AM


Batsugunner.png


#50 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

No stupider then the people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits. Most dumb people are conservative.


I've never seen anyone make that claim - do you have any links?

Before you start, stating that there are too many government benefits is not the same as wishing to be poor to get them.


I'll be nice - JS Mill was a philosopher and political theorist. Wiki is your friend


OK, sorry, I know who John Stuart Mill was, but my issue was with your claim that there are "people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits". I thought that was clear from the second sentence, but I guess I'll have to spoonfeed a little more in the future.

Just to make sure that this makes sense to you, do you have a link that shows that a guy said that he wants to be poor to get more stuff from the feds?

See all one syllable! Does that work for you! BTW, let's leave slidecage out of it. He falls under the "bitches about people getting handouts but doesn't actually want to be that poor" umbrella, also, he rants a lot and seems to fall into your "stupid people are generally conservative" bucket.

#51 Temporaryscars

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

Not much worse than ours sadly... You also left out Canada, Australia, China, and a multitude of other 1st world countries with universal healthcare and currently strong economies. Basically, you can't lay all of the blame of a weak economy on providing health care to citizens.

Furthermore, 60% of bankruptcies are based on medical bills so how helpful are bankruptcies to strengthening an economy?


http://www.youtube.c...&v=wWkUaJId7pM#!



#52 Msut77

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

When is a response not a response?

The above is when.
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#53 camoor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

OK, sorry, I know who John Stuart Mill was, but my issue was with your claim that there are "people who profess the wish to be poor so they can start pulling down all those sweet govt benefits". I thought that was clear from the second sentence, but I guess I'll have to spoonfeed a little more in the future.

Just to make sure that this makes sense to you, do you have a link that shows that a guy said that he wants to be poor to get more stuff from the feds?

See all one syllable! Does that work for you! BTW, let's leave slidecage out of it. He falls under the "bitches about people getting handouts but doesn't actually want to be that poor" umbrella, also, he rants a lot and seems to fall into your "stupid people are generally conservative" bucket.


lol don't get all butthurt, that was sarcasm. Noone really wants to be poor, it's just something stupid that libertarians and other conservatives of their ilk like to say.

#54 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:19 PM

lol don't get all butthurt, that was sarcasm. Noone really wants to be poor, it's just something stupid that libertarians and other conservatives of their ilk like to say.


I'm not "all butthurt". Why would I be when you made a claim that you can't substantiate? It's rather funny, actually.

#55 camoor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

I'm not "all butthurt". Why would I be when you made a claim that you can't substantiate? It's rather funny, actually.


That's because it was meant to be funny. I was using sarcasm. Only an idiot would actually believe that, it's just something that bitter conservatives say.

Are you really this dense?

#56 mykevermin

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:54 PM

While I can't be arsed to find someone who says they wish for *themselves* to be poor so they can take advantage of government aid, the very notion of disdain for government aid is that it creates the "entitlement culture" (a branded and approved political phrase used by the right) and "dependency" - that is, that government aid makes people lethargic, comfortable, and unmotivated to do anything but continue to access more government aid - there's no way you would dare deny that this is a favorite argument of the right. You shouldn't demand proof of something so self-evident, unless you also demand proof of, say, a Republican seeking to propose tax cuts. That's the threshold for how obvious what you're demanding is.

1:20 on in this video, darlin:



"poverty trap, a creater and reinforcer of dependency." That's the argument camoor is making. Welfare makes people lazy, comfortable, and unwilling to work.

See also: Mitt Romney's "free gifts" rationale from this past week's conference call as to how Obama won the presidential election two weeks ago. Such "man, the poor are indeed so comfortable" rhetoric among the right is more prominent in the Republican party than being white is at this point.
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#57 Spokker

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:04 PM

Welfare certainly distorts incentives and the kinds of reforms made under Bill Clinton to adjust the incentives were a net positive for the country. While the EITC isn't perfect, it garnered the support of Reagan, Bush I and Clinton and its expansions were a step in the right direction. Unlike many social programs, the EITC's effect have been surprisingly positive.

#58 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

"poverty trap, a creater and reinforcer of dependency." That's the argument camoor is making. Welfare makes people lazy, comfortable, and unwilling to work.


That may be the argument camoor is TRYING to make, but it's not what he said. He clearly stated that there were people who wish they were poor so that they could get free stuff from the government. Now he's trying to walk that back and call it sarcasm.

Do you really believe that there are not people who are indeed to lazy to try to make things better than what they can get on welfare/WIC/whatever?

#59 yourlefthand

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

That's because it was meant to be funny. I was using sarcasm. Only an idiot would actually believe that, it's just something that bitter conservatives say.

Are you really this dense?


Not dense at all, I guess you've just shown yourself to be enough of an idiot that you would believe that.

I have to ask, if it was sarcasm, why didn't you clarify that from the beginning?

#60 mykevermin

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:46 PM

Do you really believe that there are not people who are indeed to lazy to try to make things better than what they can get on welfare/WIC/whatever?


I believe there are people who tried to shoot President Reagan in order to impress the actress from "Taxi Driver." I believe there are people who killed themselves in white Nike sneakers (or were they Reeboks) in order to get onto a comet. I believe there are people who think NFL is watchable.

So if your question is "do you believe <such and such category of person> exists?" spare me. Because they do. You're wasting my time and yours.

The more reasoned, curious, intellectual question is whether or not the welfare state as we provide it creates those conditions on enough people so as to deflate the job market. The only metric we would genuinely have of that is the growing strength of workers in the job market, and a perpetual unemployment rate of near 0% based on BLS measures of unemployment. Since we've never seen anything like that, or, rather, the past several decades' worth of economic trends have been the precise *opposite* of that, we have zero economic evidence and zero empirical indicators of this kind of "dependency culture." You have your gut instinct.

So this is the part where I ask you for proof. You ask me if I think it exists under the premise that, clearly, you think it exists.

So put your food stamps where your mouth is and provide evidence.

I'll be waiting. Looking forward to it.

Welfare certainly distorts incentives


Ugh, no. Society distorts incentives. Government is the arm that acts on it via policy. EITC distorts incentives. Mortgage deductions distorts incentives. The Bush tax cuts distort incentives. EVERYTHING the government does distorts incentives.

The idea that welfare, and only welfare, upsets the otherwise "natural order" of events in our world is so fucking astonishingly inane that I can't believe adults fall for it.

One day we will realize that the world of the right-wing is based upon a tautological fraud - that the outcomes of the free market are sacrosanct, and are such because they are the outcomes of the free market. Fucking absurdity. One day we will be beyond that.
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