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Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)


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#61 Shax

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:25 AM

This whole rumor infuriates me to no end! Banning used games is nothing but an attack against consumers. In this economy (and it will get worse) MS has to be completely out of their mind to even consider it. I have been a xbox fan boy since the first console but if they choose to screw me over and Sony doesn't I'm totally jumping ship to Sony.

There is no way I'm paying $60 for a game I will be stuck with forever, its madness! What makes developers think they are entitled to another cut after the game as already been sold?! When someone sells a used car Ford does not get a cut. Or when someone sells a used tv or bluray player Sony does not get a piece of that.

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#62 willardhaven

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:44 AM

This would be great for me... no temptation to buy new consoles!

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#63 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:17 AM

Good. People buying used games and borrowing games is killing the industry. We wouldn't have all this dlc if it wasn't for you people.


Yes an industry that has sales of roughly 50 billion a year worldwide. More than twice what Hollywood makes. Get that shit out of here.

#64 R3DH3R0

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:19 AM

This would be great for me... no temptation to buy new consoles!


Lol. Agreed. It's not like people who buy used games don't buy dlc, they do which supports the developer/publisher. And what if a game goes OOP? Oh well that used copy will look good on your shelf, too bad ya can't play it. I rarely buy used games, just because I'm so picky over scratches and condition. Even so I still wouldn't buy the new Xbox if it had this BS.

#65 dafoomie

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:29 AM

Good. People buying used games and borrowing games is killing the industry. We wouldn't have all this dlc if it wasn't for you people.

Used trade ins drive new game sales.

#66 whoknows

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:38 AM

Yes an industry that has sales of roughly 50 billion a year worldwide. More than twice what Hollywood makes. Get that shit out of here.


Sales don't equal profit.

If it did then they companies wouldn't have to resort to such awful dlc practices that hurt us, the consumers.

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#67 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:49 AM

Sales don't equal profit.

If it did then they companies wouldn't have to resort to such awful dlc practices that hurt us, the consumers.


So you are saying that after 50 billion in revenue that the fact they cannot make money is OUR problem? That used games are somehow the razors edge after collecting 50 billion dollars every year? I still say get that shit out here.

#68 whoknows

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:56 AM

So you are saying that after 50 billion in revenue that the fact they cannot make money is OUR problem? That used games are somehow the razors edge after collecting 50 billion dollars every year? I still say get that shit out here.


It's our problem when it creates things such as season passes and on disc dlc which is bad for us, as consumers.

If you trade in/sell games or let friends borrow then you're part of the problem. Each time you trade in or sell a game that's one less new copy that gets sold.

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#69 iamsmart

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:00 AM

All of these studios didn't shut down or switch to mobile development for shits and giggles. Modern game development is expensive, and clearly the current market is not paying off enough to sustain developers and even some publishers. Some of the better-off publishers are certainly getting away with these "money grabs", but I'm pretty sure others are using it just to try and stay afloat.

Though I can understand the complaints, I'm not sure how much influence the hardcore gamer community will have over this if it turns out to be true. I think the true decider will be Joe Schmo: the guy who doesn't boycott Gamestop when they throw away their DS cases, and buys the new Madden every year. Will they care that they can't trade in their used games anymore, or will they just shrug their shoulders and buy into the next new thing?

#70 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:06 AM

It's our problem when it creates things such as season passes and on disc dlc which is bad for us, as consumers.

If you trade in/sell games or let friends borrow then you're part of the problem. Each time you trade in or sell a game that's one less new copy that gets sold.


You are assuming these are lost sales. The reality is many used games take no sales from the publisher because people were never going to spend that $60 when the game released anyway. I buy roughly 12-15 games new each year, but I also buy unproven or poorly reviewed titles at basement used prices. I have a great idea for publishers. If you want me to spend $60 then don't make games like Call of Juarez:The Cartel or MoH: Warfighter. Expecting $60 for every game produced is ridiculous. Eliminating used sales will not save this industry.

#71 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:09 AM

This is an article from Slate a few years back.

"The industry has long discussed going with this "Hollywood model," in which a few games/movies turn a profit, those hits more than covering the other losses. The analogy between the Hollywood blockbuster model and the games business falls apart, however, because of the huge difference in overhead costs. Electronic Arts steadily employs 7,400 developers. The industry standard is a $10,000 man-month, meaning the company burns through more than $74 million for development each month. The big Hollywood studios, by contrast, make movies by giving money to temporary production companies, which then hire temporary crews with one-project contracts. The temporary entity will make the film from start to finish. And once production is complete, the studio receives a finished product that it can distribute to theaters—without the continued overhead expenses that game publishers often face."

The overhead is too big. Revenue is not the issue. People spend more on games now than movies and a crap ton more than on music.

#72 whoknows

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:20 AM

You are assuming these are lost sales. The reality is many used games take no sales from the publisher because people were never going to spend that $60 when the game released anyway. I buy roughly 12-15 games new each year, but I also buy unproven or poorly reviewed titles at basement used prices. I have a great idea for publishers. If you want me to spend $60 then don't make games like Call of Juarez:The Cartel or MoH: Warfighter. Expecting $60 for every game produced is ridiculous. Eliminating used sales will not save this industry.


Those were big budget games. They may not have been the best games ever, but the development costs justify the $60 price and buying those games used is helping people lose their jobs.

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#73 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:26 AM

Those were big budget games. They may not have been the best games ever, but the development costs justify the $60 price and buying those games used is helping people lose their jobs.


Are you really saying those games are $60 games? Who cares if they spent a lot of money on producing it? Shit is shit and that is their problem. Also, if no one buys it new because it is shit then used games have NOTHING to do with its failure.

This is the thing. You pile on DLC, online passses, microtransactions, etc and you may see more revenue from those sources. Guess what happens though? People will not buy an extra $60 game or two. This is exactly what is already happening. Digital sales are up yet physical media sales are down. People only have so much money to spend on entertainment. Ignoring that reality and keeping on with developer models that won't work is the reason for the losses and not used games.

#74 AFRO insomniac

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:36 AM

This all seems like an overblown PR stunt to generate interest in the console/next gen gaming.

Why bother ranting on a forum thread?

Speak with your wallet.

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#75 Salamando3000

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:52 AM

This all seems like an overblown PR stunt to generate interest in the console/next gen gaming.

Why bother ranting on a forum thread?

Speak with your wallet.


Or it could just be click-baiting. Rumors are a wonderful thing. If they're true, huzzah, credibility. If they're false, "It was just a rumor, and subject to change". Either way, you've got clicks and ad revenue.

Speak with our wallets? Ha! Complaining online is much easier. And then there's the question of how much a typical CAG's wallet actually means. It seems like we hate DLC in all forms....we wait long past most games' major profitability points to actually get it...and for what games we do buy new, we're likely pumping them back out into the used market and are the main people stuff like this is out to stop. Hell, the trading forum will become a much more niche market when there's no more used games.


#76 62t

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

Or it could just be click-baiting. Rumors are a wonderful thing. If they're true, huzzah, credibility. If they're false, "It was just a rumor, and subject to change". Either way, you've got clicks and ad revenue.


Edge is one of the more respectable magazine around. Their extract word is "If our sources are correct (and we’re confident they are)." This is not Kotaku doing the same shit.

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#77 Salamando3000

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:18 AM

Edge is one of the more respectable magazine around. Their extract word is "If our sources are correct (and we’re confident they are)." This is not Kotaku doing the same shit.


I'll take your word for it. When it comes to any kind of video game "rumors", I am extremely skeptical. I don't have a lot of faith with most video game journalism to begin with, and the entire "statements without evidence" thing doesn't jive with my inner scientist.


#78 dallow

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:24 AM

Edge doesn't post bullshit. So I'm pretty surprised to read this.

If one retailer does it, others with similar policies are likely to follow suit. Gamestop and Best Buy are the two biggest culprits here. Wal-Mart sells used games, but not much, and I think that's online only.

Not one retailer would do this.

The big difference is that retailers make good profits off iPads and Tablets. They don't on Game Consoles.


No they don't. Margins are extremely slim on those. It's the warranties and accessories that make real profit.

#79 sdoxas

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

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#80 blindinglights

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

It's our problem when it creates things such as season passes and on disc dlc which is bad for us, as consumers.



You think developers and publishers were motivated to pursue a means to make more money with half the effort just because of second hand sales? Not likely.

They were motivated just by the idea of making more money with half the effort. Never ending streams of DLC would have happened even if every game system had console locked DRM back to the NES.
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#81 Calinks

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

I understand that game development is becoming more expensive but that again is not the consumers fault. They need to find a way to bring development costs down. Not everyone is going to be able to put out a GTA or Modern Warefare.

If the industry has gotten too big and companies can't keep up then I think other alternative should be looked at besides, "Lets force more money from the people who support us". There has to be a better way.
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#82 fullmetalfan720

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

I imagine their investors would shit a brick if this happened. And if Sony did it, they might actually go bankrupt.
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#83 ID2006

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

Yuck. Take one of the major problems with most modern PC games and NONE of the benefits (cheap digital sales, better visuals, etc.)

I hope this isn't true, although being that it is Microsoft, maybe I don't care. Their exclusives have failed to appeal to me. Still, it's possible they'll finally drift away from alien shooters and do something interesting for once.

#84 Dr. Venkman

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

Fantasy scenario: Microsoft and Sony both go this route.

Sales drop like rocks.

Nintendo scrambles up the ladder, followed by Sega with their new console. Gaming goes back to the late 80's, early 90's as far as companies go. Neo-Geo even steps up with a new console.
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#85 Se7en69

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:34 PM

Fantasy scenario: Microsoft and Sony both go this route.

Sales drop like rocks.

Nintendo scrambles up the ladder, followed by Sega with their new console. Gaming goes back to the late 80's, early 90's as far as companies go. Neo-Geo even steps up with a new console.


Whoa! Send me some of that good stuff! :applause:

My prediction is that both go that route and most will buy the new systems.

#86 RedvsBlue

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Fantasy scenario: Microsoft and Sony both go this route.

Sales drop like rocks.

Nintendo scrambles up the ladder, followed by Sega with their new console. Gaming goes back to the late 80's, early 90's as far as companies go. Neo-Geo even steps up with a new console.


I wouldn't mind this. I've been largely uninterested in the Microsoft/Sony gaming experience lately save for a few games here and there, as well as my Vita.

I, in no way, want any of the companies to go out of business because they all offer something but the industry could use a shakeup.

#87 Methoes

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

Japanese site stating that PS4 will be around $400. Wonder is the new Xbox will be less.

#88 Kazuya

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

I won't miss used games either. People are acting like new games stay $60 forever. Most stuff is $20 after a couple months new. People have been bending over for GameStop so long they don't know how to stop. The market will eventually adjust to this and the right price points will be found.

#89 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:56 PM

"Ubisoft will support Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and Wii U with new software following the launch of the next-generation consoles, whenever that may be. Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot tells IGN, "We’ll make sure that we unlock the potential of the new machines when they will be around." However, "We will continue to develop on older platforms, for sure...but the majority of our time and talent [will go] toward taking advantage of those new possibilities.""

Not that this is a huge surprise but I am glad to at see a major developer commit beyond this year to making games on the 360 and PS3. You almost have to at this point with 146 million consoles in home between the 2 systems. All the more reason I will not be a day 1 adopter.

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#90 cancerman1120

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:58 PM

I won't miss used games either. People are acting like new games stay $60 forever. Most stuff is $20 after a couple months new. People have been bending over for GameStop so long they don't know how to stop. The market will eventually adjust to this and the right price points will be found.


If by a couple of months you mean more than 6-9 then yes. Darksiders 2 has been out 6 months and it is still $50. That game has never been lower than $30 plus it has a season pass. It did not even sell that well either. So with a new system you are looking at $20 games most likely summer of 2014 at best.

It also assumes that with no used market that games will drop at the same rate which may not happen without competition.
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