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CAGcast #323: Clue Shack


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#31 guardian_owl

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

Microsoft has snapped up a bunch of domain names which are variants on "Xbox Fusion" so I would say that is a likely candidate for the name of their next system

I started playing Demon's Souls last month because of PS Plus, and I don't think it would be a great game for Wombat. Once you get over the hump it's not that difficult, and there are ways to make things easier on yourself (mainly using a good bow). But it's very time consuming and you can't pause the game, which is not ideal for a gaming dad with two young kids.

Correct, though you can go menu and quit at any time (other than when in the middle of PVP multiplayer) to save your place. Your character will sit down and save exactly where you are. Then when you boot the game back up you are in the same place, all the enemies in the level are still dead, etc, it's like you never left. If something comes up during a boss fight, you can still go menu > quit, and when you log back in you will just have to start the boss fight over again.

Edited by guardian_owl, 03 May 2013 - 03:38 PM.

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#32 jkam

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:24 PM

I think I'm starting to feel the same way about Nintendo that Cheapy does. Losing interest. The Wii U is just very underwhelming and I feel no reason to pick one up. I agree it might make more sense to make a more powerful 3DS with some sort of Airplay or HDMI function for the TV. Then they can focus on 1 platform that performs well and gets 3rd party support.

#33 Curufinwe

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 03:46 PM

Correct, though you can go menu and quit at any time (other than when in the middle of PVP multiplayer) to save your place. Your character will sit down and save exactly where you are. Then when you boot the game back up you are in the same place, all the enemies in the level are still dead, etc, it's like you never left. If something comes up during a boss fight, you can still go menu > quit, and when you log back in you will just have to start the boss fight over again.


Wow, I had no idea you could do that. I have only ever quit the game when I was back in the Nexus.

#34 Duck in a Pond

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:36 PM

Awesome show. Cheapy's Microsoft Press Conference plans sound like the right way to go to me. Lets get messed up and watch Major Nelson play kinectimals

#35 Ultramontane

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

In response to Game Dev Tycoon, could you imagine if other recent publishers took that same route towards piracy? A version of Madden that throws personal fouls every 2 minutes, a release of Call of Duty that only allows you to walk, Dead Island with no zombies, just cats?

Seriously, if the pirate market is flooded with defunct games, would that have any effect at all?
I hope it would, but my gut tells me that wouldn't change the mind of that group of people.

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#36 guardian_owl

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

Serious Sam 3 has a good one, an enemy that you can't outrun and can't be killed is added to the first level.

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#37 Fearbeard

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

Come on now Wombat. You didn't compare Bioshock Infinite to pictures like Inception or the Batman movies. You compared it to "the most throwaway popcorn movie." It's pretty easy to see why people were insulted by that. Comparing it to Inception or other Nolan movies would have actually endeared you to a lot more people.

I kind of think Nintendo is dropping the ball by not having a press conference. While the PS4 and Xbox 720 are going to be heavily focused on, it's hard to tell what kind of launch lineups these systems will have. Nintendo has had plenty of time to work on games for the Wii U now, and if they some good franchise games coming up in the Fall then they need to get that information out everywhere. Of course if they don't have anything planned for this year, then the Wii U is screwed and they might as well cancel the conference as it's not going to rise up much past a niche product.

Anyways, Happy Yesterday Birthday Wombat, and keep up the good work all.


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#38 lowgear26

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:21 AM

Nintendo not having a conference should say a lot.

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#39 dednkicking

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:08 AM

Memento popcorn movie wtf, also nailed it about bio shock though it was fun and well paced but the ending sucked the story was kind lame.

#40 Kazaganthi

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:13 AM

I think Cheapy hit the nail on the head with both Sony and Microsoft having the tech there and "leaving it up to the publishers" on online-only/DRM/no used games/$10+ used game fee. Should add that to the Top Analyst.

It's the next step in Publisher greed. We already see that with "online passes" and some are even for offline content. Catwoman levels in Batman, for example. Oh, you need $$ to pay for the servers because those used games buyers are clogging it up, oh wait what servers? Double meaning, some "online pass" game servers have already been shut down.

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#41 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:10 AM

The Xbox 360 already has online-only DRM in place for all XBLIG titles, as you cannot play them without being signed into Xbox Live. It wouldn't be a huge step up to do that to everything.

#42 MattJ1991

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:58 AM

Yup, that one was fun. I will not sue that game.


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#43 DragoonKnight

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

Wondering if Ship picked up a Fitbit Flex, and if so what he thinks of it.

#44 bmulligan

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:53 PM

Cheapy, your Godaddy link isn't working. There's no "h" in the http://


ttp://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cag249

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#45 jollydwarf

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

The Xbox 360 already has online-only DRM in place for all XBLIG titles, as you cannot play them without being signed into Xbox Live. It wouldn't be a huge step up to do that to everything.



Really? Did this happen with an update? At least for the first few years, this only applied to Arcade titles you redownloaded/transferred to different console or HDD. Unless these conditions are what you meant.

But nonetheless, this is the direction they (particularly Microsoft, generally the gaming industry) want. It doesn't mean they'll do it now, but I figure the goal is to wear us down, desensitize us to the concept, so that someday we have no absolute ownership of anything, and that they can effectively 'turn off' consoles once the next ones are sufficiently available and keep us in a perpetual subscription/rental model. I believe this is the case for all forms of entertainment, ultimately, unless there's a very strong pushback, which there won't be, because people love to complain, but are too big of junkies to detox. I see it everyday with sports fans. I think the analogy holds up for gamers:


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#46 jollydwarf

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:20 PM

And another thing (shakes cane):

First and foremost, let my silence on virtually every other CAGCast I've ever listened to speak as my approval of them. You know how we are about expressing gratitude and agreement.

So now, the complaining. I have to say, I was somewhat surprised and disappointed with the way the three of you so summarily and contemptuously dismissed the notion of a lawsuit against Sega/Gearbox regarding Colonial Marines. No, I'm not partaking in it, as thanks to my trademark procrastination, I was able to return my CE to Amazon for a full refund, after seeing the first wave of reviews. And even if I didn't get to return it, I most likely wouldn't join in the legal revolt...but I also wouldn't condemn it.

To a non-gamer (not you three), I could see where it would seem like standard nerd petulance, and therefore frivolous, but this is a pretty special situation that I believe merits a lawsuit, and no, Shipwreck, doesn’t open the floodgates for a deluge of, well, litigious fanboy tantrum throwing. Please note: reasonable people here aren't complaining simply because of the extreme suckitude of the game, but because of the path that led it to that point. How could someone who preordered have known it was going to be so far off the mark until it was (practically) too late?

The bulk of the promotional videos did present a very misleading representation of graphics, content, and overall atmosphere that resonated heavily with fans of the franchise. I don’t think ‘we’ were seeing what we wanted to see. While the outsourcing of the project probably created quality issues a lot worse than they'd bargained for, Sega and Gearbox almost certainly were playing on that very nostalgia from the beginning, knowing that it was important to get people emotionally invested ASAP (which would lead to monetarily invested sooner than later), and then if they couldn't quite match the promise, oh well.

Alien franchise fans knew that most of the previous games had been south of mediocre, so based on who was involved, and what they'd seen, they probably went 'all in' on the good faith assumption that at worst this game would be just 'decent.' Time and time again, fans will be apologists, and find ways to rationalize something passable into something much better. And yet this turd clearly didn't even reach halfway to that baseline. Because if it did, they would have. Trust me.

Please also note that gamers very rarely even start to seriously murmur about 'consumer advocate' suits about games for quality-related reasons. People know (or at least don’t care) how many intellectual properties and franchises are just assumed to be exploitative cash-in attempts. I don't think too much teeth-gnashing is going on right now about the Star Trek Into Dreckness tie-in, e.g. And when most games severely disappoint compared to that ideal expectation fans daydream about, they tend to just remember that and not buy the next attempt (new, anyway). In this egregious case, though, the confluence of factors, particularly the promotional material presented, created the impression that preorders could be made with the final game falling into certain reasonable parameters, which the review consensus clearly indicates it didn't (not to mention examples of how broken the AI is, the game's brevity, etc.).

The suit may get dismissed, it may result in nothing, it may just force publishers to put more prominent 'not final product' disclaimers everywhere. And yeah, there's clearly about a thousand things more important on a 'daily life' level. But that’s true of many lawsuits that have merit. This is about Colonial Marines, and Colonial Marines only, although it could have the effect of making future decision-makers and bean counters think twice about how far they can abuse the ‘work in progress’ disclaimers, promotional campaign, and consumers’ basic trust. And how bad would that be, especially on the verge of an even higher-stakes console generation?

P.S. The BioShock example doesn't fly (buh-dum!) because you're simply referring to a 'deleted scene' that probably had no appreciable effect on perceptions versus the final product, one way or another, and in terms of 'set pieces' within the game, is more or less fungible. If they would’ve downgraded the graphics to PS2 levels to 'maintain framerate,' or eschewed the skyrails for Elizabeth just teleporting you around, or made it ‘Doom in the clouds’ with a soundtrack of dubstep Disturbed remixes, that’d be more like this debacle.

P.P.S. I can respect a man’s opinion if he doesn’t like Batman or chocolate. But not both.
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#47 Daniel7394

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:13 PM

Hi guys after finishing Far Cry 3 and really enjoying it and with the release of Blood Dragon is it really worth getting i am a bit tight on money right know since losing my job and can only buy a number of games a month until i find something is it worth it thanks guys!

#48 tenma

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:54 PM

Great show as always, but I just wanted to address Cheapy's comment about hoping that Saints Row 4 will show Rockstar how to make a good GTA game (or something to that effect). I don't think Rockstar needs to compete with or tap into Saints Row's ethos just as I don't think SR needs to tap into GTA's ethos. I think it's great that both games can serve different needs. I loved Saints Row 3 for it's raw, unadulterated outlandishness but still prefer GTA IV (and the GTA franchise as a whole) for its atmosphere, more tempered gameplay and cinematic qualities. If I can get a Saints Row 4 that's like 3, but better, and a GTA 5 that's like GTA IV, but better, I'll be ecstatic. They're their own individual brands and them embracing their own qualities just gives the gamer even more choice and variety.
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#49 casamh

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:33 AM

Wombat's Watson is second only to Wombat's Cosby. Great show!

#50 Fearbeard

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:25 AM

Really? Did this happen with an update? At least for the first few years, this only applied to Arcade titles you redownloaded/transferred to different console or HDD. Unless these conditions are what you meant.

But nonetheless, this is the direction they (particularly Microsoft, generally the gaming industry) want. It doesn't mean they'll do it now, but I figure the goal is to wear us down, desensitize us to the concept, so that someday we have no absolute ownership of anything, and that they can effectively 'turn off' consoles once the next ones are sufficiently available and keep us in a perpetual subscription/rental model. I believe this is the case for all forms of entertainment, ultimately, unless there's a very strong pushback, which there won't be, because people love to complain, but are too big of junkies to detox. I see it everyday with sports fans. I think the analogy holds up for gamers:


He's talking about the Xbox Live Indie games, not the Xbox Live Arcade. The indie games require a constant internet connection. Though I think the primary reason for doing that was to control content since none of the games had to go through the ESRB and were simply rated by other XNA users. By requiring a constant connection they could instantly block access to any offensive games that might manage to squeak it's way on to the channel.


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#51 io

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:49 AM

I started playing Demon's Souls last month because of PS Plus, and I don't think it would be a great game for Wombat. Once you get over the hump it's not that difficult, and there are ways to make things easier on yourself (mainly using a good bow). But it's very time consuming and you can't pause the game, which is not ideal for a gaming dad with two young kids.

I'm surprised Shipwreck didn't stick with it, though. It's very rewarding once you have gained some levels, upgraded your equipment, and teamed up with random co-op partners to plow thru levels.


Also, once you clear a very small area around you (or in the Nexus of Demon's Souls or any campfire in Dark Souls), you can just leave the game since nothing will happen. I left it "paused" in that sense many times. Of course this assumes you are in soul form or playing offline so you can't be invaded...

I think I'm starting to feel the same way about Nintendo that Cheapy does. Losing interest. The Wii U is just very underwhelming and I feel no reason to pick one up. I agree it might make more sense to make a more powerful 3DS with some sort of Airplay or HDMI function for the TV. Then they can focus on 1 platform that performs well and gets 3rd party support.


There was much discussion about Nintendo pulling their big conference in another thread. But my take on it is that their conferences seem to produce nothing but ridicule (especially here on CAG) such that I think it was a good move to pull the awkward event and just focus more on the games. A lot of people are jumping to conclusions about this move - it doesn't mean they have no games to show or are doomed to failure.

I have never been a big fan of watching any of the conferences. What I want to hear (or preferably, read) about during and after E3 is a summary of what each system will have, and any impressions of hands-on time with newly announced games. We'll still be getting all that info from Nintendo - just without the big auditorium presentation with awkward execs doing things like dancing around and playing air instruments...

Maybe they should all go that route, actually.

And I think the idea of ditching their home console for some sort of 3DS connectivity device is a bad one (even if it is a souped up 3DS as jkam suggests). I think they'd get much more ridicule from gamers if they did that. A lot of us still want to play Nintendo console games. The 3DS is a nice little machine, but it is no substitute for Mario Galaxy or Pikmin or Zelda or Metroid in HD. The 3DS graphics on a 55" TV would look horrible anyway. Nintendo came out with what nearly every fan of their games wanted: an HD system. That right there addressed the biggest drawback of the Wii. I don't get all the hand wringing and complaining about it. The Wii U is a perfectly fine system. It is just lacking games right now. And hopefully, just like with the 3DS, it will pick up momentum once they get some of their bigger games out there. It will never dominate like the 3DS does, but they can hold their own given their first-party titles.

#52 Jasper Kazai

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:03 PM

Great show as always, but I just wanted to address Cheapy's comment about hoping that Saints Row 4 will show Rockstar how to make a good GTA game (or something to that effect). I don't think Rockstar needs to compete with or tap into Saints Row's ethos just as I don't think SR needs to tap into GTA's ethos. I think it's great that both games can serve different needs. I loved Saints Row 3 for it's raw, unadulterated outlandishness but still prefer GTA IV (and the GTA franchise as a whole) for its atmosphere, more tempered gameplay and cinematic qualities. If I can get a Saints Row 4 that's like 3, but better, and a GTA 5 that's like GTA IV, but better, I'll be ecstatic. They're their own individual brands and them embracing their own qualities just gives the gamer even more choice and variety.

This. Saint's Row is meant to be a sandbox of chaos and hilarity, and GTA is not. Cheapy doesn't seem to like what GTA aims for, and that's that. It's not the game's fault, and it shouldn't change because of that. It's just not for him. (And there isn't any problem with that, either - you don't have to like both games just because they're somewhat similar.)
I'm with you - I enjoy Saint's Row (although I've only played about half of the first and still haven't finished the 3rd yet), but I much prefer GTA. I don't want to see GTA become more like Saint's Row, since they're different for a reason. Homogenization is generally not a good thing in this case.

#53 itachiitachi

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:51 PM

This. Saint's Row is meant to be a sandbox of chaos and hilarity, and GTA is not. Cheapy doesn't seem to like what GTA aims for, and that's that. It's not the game's fault, and it shouldn't change because of that. It's just not for him. (And there isn't any problem with that, either - you don't have to like both games just because they're somewhat similar.)
case.

I think he is referring to the gameplay not the tone of the game. I found saints row 3 to have more varied mission than GTA, there where very few missions that I felt where a chore in SR3 but in GTA I find myself grinding through missions to get to ones that will be fun.

One of the main differences is mission structure. In GTA you have mission where you drive 5 minutes to some location, avoiding pissing off cops, because a lone cop can rip you out of a car going 90 mph, to whom your character surrenders to with out a fight despite being able to take on an army. Then you have spend another 5-15 minutes doing something tedious like a stealth mission or finding packages ect... then you get to fight bad guys which may or may not be good. But you also have to defend an AI character/not let your car get damaged/some other arbitrary and random event. Then if the loaded dice roll of the AI not being stupid doesn't go your way you get to start the whole mission all over again.
Not only do you not really encounter these kinds of mission in SR the have mechanicslike check points and "No super cops" to make bad mission not frustrating.

I also feel SR3 embraces the open worldness of the game better. The side missions where you have to blow up every thing, or kill every thing or get run over in the funniest way possible. It's things that almost everyone likes to do in open world games anyways so why no incorporate it into the game.

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#54 Jasper Kazai

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

I think he is referring to the gameplay not the tone of the game. I found saints row 3 to have more varied mission than GTA, there where very few missions that I felt where a chore in SR3 but in GTA I find myself grinding through missions to get to ones that will be fun.

One of the main differences is mission structure. In GTA you have mission where you drive 5 minutes to some location, avoiding pissing off cops, because a lone cop can rip you out of a car going 90 mph, to whom your character surrenders to with out a fight despite being able to take on an army. Then you have spend another 5-15 minutes doing something tedious like a stealth mission or finding packages ect... then you get to fight bad guys which may or may not be good. But you also have to defend an AI character/not let your car get damaged/some other arbitrary and random event. Then if the loaded dice roll of the AI not being stupid doesn't go your way you get to start the whole mission all over again.
Not only do you not really encounter these kinds of mission in SR the have mechanicslike check points and "No super cops" to make bad mission not frustrating.

I also feel SR3 embraces the open worldness of the game better. The side missions where you have to blow up every thing, or kill every thing or get run over in the funniest way possible. It's things that almost everyone likes to do in open world games anyways so why no incorporate it into the game.


Alright, those are all fair points. Personally, and I realize this is a personal opinion, I don't mind most of the "boring" missions (not saying they're great and a blast, but I don't usually hate doing them). I don't see much of an issue there, but yes, I suppose it's not for everyone. As for blowing shit up, that wouldn't fit into GTA's theme. It's right at home in SR, but GTA always goes for a more realistic feel. (Key word: more. Not completely.) Although it does look like Trevor's character in GTAV will have a lot of crazy, SR-esque shit going on. Definitely not going to match SR's level, but it will be crazy for GTA probably.
The only real issue I see in GTA's missions were the lack of checkpoints. HOWEVER, seeing as just about every Rockstar game released since GTAIV (RDR, LA Noire, Max Payne 3, and even the Ballad of Gay Tony DLC) have checkpoints, that's not going to be an issue anymore, most likely.

#55 codenamelenny

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:56 AM

You guys should take a look at this game and mention it on the next podcast. It's called road redemption and it's basically a new road rash. Think about that. A NEW ROAD RASH, it's everyone's fantasy come true. They are close to their goal but only have 5 days left.
http://www.kickstart...road-redemption

#56 AlertTheJ

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:23 AM

You really didn't want to let that clue shack comment go, did you Wombat? :applause:

#57 Backlash

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

I don't have a strong opinion on Batman vs other super heroes, but I saw this today and immediately thought of Wombat and Shipwreck:

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#58 guardian_owl

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:12 PM

I've long thought that MacGyver is Bruce Wayne if he had grown up in a poor family.

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#59 Fearbeard

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:58 PM

I know the CAGcast isn't interested in kickstarter or a donations page, but have you guys considered merchandising? I know I'd happily buy a couple CAG cofee mugs if they were available.


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#60 FriskyTanuki

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:17 AM

I know the CAGcast isn't interested in kickstarter or a donations page, but have you guys considered merchandising? I know I'd happily buy a couple CAG cofee mugs if they were available.

http://www.cafepress.com/cheapassgamer