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Minimum Wage....Yeeeehaaaa!


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#31 egofed

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

I stand corrected. I was working off $23,500 which is the poverty line for a family of 4. I should have said the head of house hold instead of an individual my bad.

Should you be a head of house hold with kids if you only make $23,500? Is this like the "right to health insurance" thing? Do we agree or disagree that you should not have the right to reproduce and expect that strangers will pay for you and your kid?



#32 dohdough

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:44 PM

"You can't be poor! You've got no job yet still have a house, a car, tattoos, AC, cigarettes, internet, cable TV, a smartphone, Xbox, DVD player, and three kids who haven't starved to death!!!"   Maybe you just make very poor personal and financial decisions and should be extremely thankful that you live in a country that will provide for you DESPITE your idiotic actions.

Yeah, the kids should share the fate of the parents. Dealing with the resulting crime and and societal impact is more expensive, but at least they aren't mooching off the system, amirite? :roll:
 

Should you be a head of house hold with kids if you only make $23,500? Is this like the "right to health insurance" thing? Do we agree or disagree that you should not have the right to reproduce and expect that strangers will pay for you and your kid?

I know you don't support abortions, but would you support parents being able to sell their children? Serious question.
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"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


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#33 egofed

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 03:57 PM

:rofl: 

Yeah, the kids should share the fate of the parents. Dealing with the resulting crime and and societal impact is more expensive, but at least they aren't mooching off the system, amirite? :roll:
 
I know you don't support abortions, but would you support parents being able to sell their children? Serious question.

The kids ARE sharing the fate of their parents!!!! They learn that behavior like that is acceptable and the norm. We are dooming them to a continual cycle of welfare by not interjecting accountability into the system.  The current system is fucked, if we can come up with a new system that would actually decrease poverty and welfare while instilling a work ethic, then I would gladly accept the greater expense because it would save money and misery in the long term. I am a huge fan of "pay as you go" in gov't, but, with how fast and loose they play with the explanations of where the money is going to come from these days, it is pretty useless.

 

As far as selling babies....HELL YES!!!! Do you know how much you can get for a healthy, white baby these days??? :D/

 

Actually, my answer is.......grapefruit!!! That's what you told me, right?



#34 dohdough

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:21 PM

The kids ARE sharing the fate of their parents!!!! They learn that behavior like that is acceptable and the norm. We are dooming them to a continual cycle of welfare by not interjecting accountability into the system.  The current system is fucked, if we can come up with a new system that would actually decrease poverty and welfare while instilling a work ethic, then I would gladly accept the greater expense because it would save money and misery in the long term. I am a huge fan of "pay as you go" in gov't, but, with how fast and loose they play with the explanations of where the money is going to come from these days, it is pretty useless.
 
As far as selling babies....HELL YES!!!! Do you know how much you can get for a healthy, white baby these days??? :D/
 
Actually, my answer is.......grapefruit!!! That's what you told me, right?

<insertfacepalm> That really went over your head there...

Let's try this again: If we strip the last remnants of the social safetynet, which I'm sure you approve of, should the kids share in the parents abject poverty?

It's almost as if you completely ignore all the history of the country before these programs were put in place. We can actually look back to see what life was like. Hell, we can look at other countries with the kind of wealth disparity with a 25% poverty rate and approximate standards of living, which I believe was the rate before the "War on Poverty."

I mean Fuck! Why bother even having public schools if kids are just going to drop out when 70% actually make it? That means 30% of the kids are just pissing away our tax dollars!
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"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#35 irideabike

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 04:36 PM

to answer the OP, you're not the boss of me now.

 

sounds like a brilliant plan to me.  write more bills to get people out of poverty please.


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#36 GBAstar

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:29 PM

<insertfacepalm> That really went over your head there...

Let's try this again: If we strip the last remnants of the social safetynet, which I'm sure you approve of, should the kids share in the parents abject poverty?

It's almost as if you completely ignore all the history of the country before these programs were put in place. We can actually look back to see what life was like. Hell, we can look at other countries with the kind of wealth disparity with a 25% poverty rate and approximate standards of living, which I believe was the rate before the "War on Poverty."

I mean Fuck! Why bother even having public schools if kids are just going to drop out when 70% actually make it? That means 30% of the kids are just pissing away our tax dollars!

 

Why do we need to give more money to the families to provide for the children after 5 years of age... isn't that what school systems are for now? Haven't they been relegated to "parenting" children instead of actually educating them?

I mean a child from any household is able to get 2-3 square meals at school (some even give kids a meal to take home now). The only times the kids would be subject to go hungry is over the weekend.



#37 Dead of Knight

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=7KV8W2UiAuA

 

Pelosi at her finest.....

 

Anyway, who supports raising the minimum wage, and, if so, by how much?

 

PS: extra points if you know who sings the thread's title.

Came into this thread even though I never post in Vs. anymore just because of the thread title.  Disappointing that it's just another minimum wage thread. :lol:


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#38 UncleBob

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:41 PM

I stand corrected. I was working off $23,500 which is the poverty line for a family of 4. I should have said the head of household instead of an individual my bad.


Ah. So, two parents working 40 hours week, 50 weeks a year at $7.25 minimum wage jobs (minus a generous 20% in taxes)... $23,200. 2013 Federal Poverty Guidelines puts a household of four at $23,550. So, that's $350 below the poverty line for a family of four.... but, again, that's with an overly generous 20% taken out in payroll taxes. So, by this "poverty line" measure, we should just raise minimum wage to $7.40/hour.
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#39 GBAstar

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:00 AM

Ah. So, two parents working 40 hours week, 50 weeks a year at $7.25 minimum wage jobs (minus a generous 20% in taxes)... $23,200. 2013 Federal Poverty Guidelines puts a household of four at $23,550. So, that's $350 below the poverty line for a family of four.... but, again, that's with an overly generous 20% taken out in payroll taxes. So, by this "poverty line" measure, we should just raise minimum wage to $7.40/hour.

 

BUT DAYCARE! Who is going to take care of all their babies? Someone has to stay home.



#40 Msut77

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:04 AM

Ego is obsessed with other people procreating, particularly those he deems undesirable.

 

The nods to a Modest Proposal wont be noticed.


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#41 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:16 AM

Amazon pays their starting employees $12/hour. So, they are not affected by the proposed increase in minimum wage. They already figured out that their employees are worth more to them than $7.25/hour. 

Sure but why not increase it to $15? Its only $3. 



#42 kill3r7

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 03:50 AM

Sure but why not increase it to $15? Its only $3.


Ironically enough I believe Amazon is doing precisely that to comply with Seattle's new minimum wage increase which brought minimum wage up to $15.
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#43 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 05:43 AM

Ironically enough I believe Amazon is doing precisely that to comply with Seattle's new minimum wage increase which brought minimum wage up to $15.

Didnt hear about that but thats only one city. How about a whole country? 



#44 egofed

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 05:40 PM

Ego is obsessed with other people procreating, particularly those he deems undesirable.

The nods to a Modest Proposal wont be noticed.


I should not be concerned about the expenditures and lack of moral and ethical upbringing brought about by selfish people having kids and expecting strangers to pay for them?

#45 Purple Flames

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

I should not be concerned about the expenditures and lack of moral and ethical upbringing brought about by selfish people having kids and expecting strangers to pay for them?

 

So cops, firemen, and other publc service workers who have kids are, by your logic, moral failures because the tax dollars of strangers go towards feeding their families?



#46 GBAstar

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:42 AM

So cops, firemen, and other publc service workers who have kids are, by your logic, moral failures because the tax dollars of strangers go towards feeding their families?

 

I would think that people in public service in some shape or fashion are required to work for the tax dollars that make up their income. Not so sure the same can be said for those that collect unemployment, EBT, TANF etc but I'll have to research that in more detail



#47 egofed

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 01:01 PM

So cops, firemen, and other publc service workers who have kids are, by your logic, moral failures because the tax dollars of strangers go towards feeding their families?

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.............Whoooooooo....every time you guys try to make this argument, it cracks me up. Do you really believe it? Can you really not see the difference? Thanks to GBA Star for stating the obvious. I tried several times unsuccessfully in the past, now I just laugh hysterically knowing that my point was well made if that is the best retort you guys can come up with. 



#48 egofed

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 01:10 PM

Ego is obsessed with other people procreating, particularly those he deems undesirable.

 

The nods to a Modest Proposal wont be noticed.

I'll go a step further for you, Msutt. I indeed do in fact find people who doom innocent children to a life of poverty and mooching just so they can benefit from our generous welfare system "undesirable". Straight up evil is another way to put it. I also find it undesirable that our gov't has given incentives to destroy the concept of a two parent household. http://www.lifesiten...arly-doubled-in  The number of US children living in single-parent homes has nearly doubled in 50 years: Census data.  This sucks....agree or disagree?



#49 UncleBob

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:32 PM

So cops, firemen, and other publc service workers who have kids are, by your logic, moral failures because the tax dollars of strangers go towards feeding their families?

A.) Are you really trying to compare public service workers who hold some kind of a job to those who do not hold a job?

B.) This is one of the major problems here on Vs.  Topic comes up, people disagree, then next thing you know, someone starts making personal attacks ("You're a dick", "something something your job", etc.).  With some of the usual folks checking in less, it'd been pretty nice around here lately... but, all good things, I suppose.


"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#50 Msut77

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:56 PM

I should not be concerned about the expenditures and lack of moral and ethical upbringing brought about by selfish people having kids and expecting strangers to pay for them?

I find it odd a supposed grown man spends sleepless nights because a brown child may be eating a bowl of oatmeal on his dime.


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#51 kilik64

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:39 PM

Not a single person in this thread appears to have ever had any sort of economics class.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Price_floor

 

In the Effects on Market section change consumers to producers and the product to supply of labor. 15/hour min wage or any other such nonsense is detrimental to the unskilled laborer. It forces them out of the market.

 

Also who likes their cheap products from walmart? That cheap fast food? Ever heard of inflation?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

 

All this moral ethical crap has nothing to do with it. Its simple economics. The minimum wage needs to be repealed. Employers will play employees what they are worth and the market would be more efficient. If min wage was magically 15/hour tomorrow, how many 16 year old kids do you think would ever get their first job? Why would an employer higher a completely unskilled worker with no job history?


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#52 egofed

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

I find it odd a supposed grown man spends sleepless nights because a brown child may be eating a bowl of oatmeal on his dime.



#53 GBAstar

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:54 PM

 If min wage was magically 15/hour tomorrow, how many 16 year old kids do you think would ever get their first job? Why would an employer higher a completely unskilled worker with no job history?

 

It's okay. If they can't get jobs then they can just go on unemployment, collect welfare at what I assume would be an increased rate in proportion to the increase to minimum wage and be lifetime collectors and lifetime democratic  voters which might just be part of the master plan.



#54 egofed

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 04:56 PM

Way to throw a charge of racism my way. Did you attend the Sharpton school of debate? I think you are just trolling me. Nobody could be so emotional and illogical as you present.

PS: I sleep just fine.

#55 dohdough

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:58 PM

Not a single person in this thread appears to have ever had any sort of economics class.
 
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Price_floor
 
In the Effects on Market section change consumers to producers and the product to supply of labor. 15/hour min wage or any other such nonsense is detrimental to the unskilled laborer. It forces them out of the market.
 
Also who likes their cheap products from walmart? That cheap fast food? Ever heard of inflation?
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
 
All this moral ethical crap has nothing to do with it. Its simple economics. The minimum wage needs to be repealed. Employers will play employees what they are worth and the market would be more efficient. If min wage was magically 15/hour tomorrow, how many 16 year old kids do you think would ever get their first job? Why would an employer higher a completely unskilled worker with no job history?

This is cute and all, but it seems like you've never taken a history class. It's almost as if you ignored labor/wage conditions when there weren't any protections.

As for "efficiency," what type of efficiency are you talking about and who would it be benefiting? Hoarded capital isn't exactly efficient.

It's okay. If they can't get jobs then they can just go on unemployment, collect welfare at what I assume would be an increased rate in proportion to the increase to minimum wage and be lifetime collectors and lifetime democratic voters which might just be part of the master plan.

Sounds like someone has a touch of envy.
dohdough.png


"Speaking of which, there's another elitist prick that argues constantly on the Politics forums by the name of dohdough. He's a complete douche, but at least he keeps his posts in that cesspool of useless opinions. He gets my runner-up nomination."


Thanks for the nomination for the Most Memorable CAG Villan 2012, Blade!

#56 Purple Flames

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 10:52 PM

Not a single person in this thread appears to have ever had any sort of economics class.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Price_floor

 

In the Effects on Market section change consumers to producers and the product to supply of labor. 15/hour min wage or any other such nonsense is detrimental to the unskilled laborer. It forces them out of the market.

 

Also who likes their cheap products from walmart? That cheap fast food? Ever heard of inflation?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

 

All this moral ethical crap has nothing to do with it. Its simple economics. The minimum wage needs to be repealed. Employers will play employees what they are worth and the market would be more efficient. If min wage was magically 15/hour tomorrow, how many 16 year old kids do you think would ever get their first job? Why would an employer higher a completely unskilled worker with no job history?

 

Yeah, life for workers before those union thugs came in with and ruined things with their demands for "fair pay", "safe working conditions" and "sick leave" was just peachy.

 

Christ, it's like you got all your ideas on how to run a business from Jeremiah Fink from Bioshock Infinite.



#57 UncleBob

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:26 PM

Someone with more free time than I've had lately (seriously, I only get to be in my actual store two days next week and one of those days is a pre-inventory thing... my boss asked about having me out the one other day and I told him no...) should post a chart of poverty levels within the US and highlight each year where minimum wage has increased.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#58 egofed

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:40 PM

Anybody want to answer my earlier query? If the minimum wage is increased to $10 or $16, can skilled workers expect a raise to $20? The starting pay for some fire recruits is $34000 a year. 12 months times 160 hours a month =1920. 1920 hours times $16=$30720. Firefighters work 52 hours a week with no extra overtime pay over 40. 52 times 4= 208 hours a month, times 12 months=2496 hours a year. 2496 hours times $16 equals $39936. So I can work a mandatory 576 more hours away from my family for 24 hours at a time, risk my life in icy cold and super hot extremes, keep up education in multiple certifications, expose myself to illnesses and blood born pathogens, deal with violent, psychotic, and downright dirty people all the time, etc. and make the equivalent of some guy flipping burgers or sweeping the floor. Actually, those unskilled workers could make more than the firefighter if they work overtime.



#59 UncleBob

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

Number_in_Poverty_and_Poverty_Rate_1959_

Shamelessly stolen from Wikipedia...

Minimum hourly wage of workers in jobs first covered by
Effective Date          1938 Act 1         1961 Amendments 2         1966 and Subsequent
Amendments3         
                              Nonfarm          Farm
10/24/38         $0.25                             
10/24/39         $0.30                             
10/24/45         $0.40                             
01/25/50         $0.75                             
03/01/56         $1.00                             
09/03/61         $1.15         $1.00                   
09/03/63         $1.25                             
09/03/64                   $1.15                   
09/03/65                   $1.25                   
02/01/67         $1.40         $1.40         $1.00         $1.00
02/01/68         $1.60         $1.60         $1.15         $1.15
02/01/69                             $1.30         $1.30
02/01/70                             $1.45         
02/01/71                             $1.60         
05/01/74         $2.00         $2.00         $1.90         $1.60
01/01/75         $2.10         $2.10         $2.00         $1.80
01/01/76         $2.30         $2.30         $2.20         $2.00
01/01/77                             $2.30         $2.20
01/01/78         $2.65 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
01/01/79         $2.90 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
01/01/80         $3.10 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
01/01/81         $3.35 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
Apr 1, 19904         $3.80 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
04/01/91         $4.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
10/01/96         $4.75 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
Sep 1, 19975         $5.15 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
07/24/07         $5.85 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
07/24/08         $6.55 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
07/24/09         $7.25 for all covered, nonexempt workers                        
Shamelessly stolen from the Department of Labor's website - http://www.dol.gov/w...nwage/chart.htm


"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#60 kill3r7

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:22 PM

Not a single person in this thread appears to have ever had any sort of economics class.

 

They beg to differ.


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