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ME Supreme Court Rules Transgender Students Can Use Bathroom of Preference


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#1 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:16 AM

What do you think?

 

 

http://bangordailyne...-bathroom-case/

 

 

It is the first time any court in the nation has ruled it is unlawful to force a transgender child to use the school bathroom designated for the sex he or she was born with rather than the one with which the child identifies, according to the Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders of Boston, which represented the girl and her family.

 

 

 

 



#2 MasaTFC

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:24 AM

as someone whom has a relative that is transgender as well as someone whom is in a graduate program for clinical mental health counseling, I think this is a step in the right direction. Too many kids in the LGBT community have to deal with discrimination and bullying.

 

Times are changing and it is important as a society that we help embrace change for those that are different than us.


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#3 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:32 AM

as someone whom has a relative that is transgender as well as someone whom is in a graduate program for clinical mental health counseling, I think this is a step in the right direction. Too many kids in the LGBT community have to deal with discrimination and bullying.

 

Times are changing and it is important as a society that we help embrace change for those that are different than us.

 

So separate but equal, in regards to bathroom and changing facilities is discrimination? Why not just have one large gender neutral bathroom/locker room?



#4 MasaTFC

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:40 AM

So separate but equal, in regards to bathroom and changing facilities is discrimination? Why not just have one large gender neutral bathroom/locker room?

from a mental health standpoint, TG folk just want to be accepted for who they are, not subjected to different rules than what would apply to those of that gender.

 

as for a gender neutral locker room, there is a shit load of logistics and red tape that would probably drive school districts insane involved with that.


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#5 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:47 AM

from a mental health standpoint, TG folk just want to be accepted for who they are, not subjected to different rules than what would apply to those of that gender.

 

as for a gender neutral locker room, there is a shit load of logistics and red tape that would probably drive school districts insane involved with that.

 

It seems to me that countries that expose their "people" to alcohol at a younger age then say the U.S. at 21 have a lower incidence of alcoholism. Perhaps if we weren't such prudes here in the U.S. then we would have fewer crimes tied to sexual aggression or exploitation.

 

I really could care less about the ruling as the ruling itself doesn't effect me but this part was interesting:

 

 
It is the first time the state‚Äôs highest court has interpreted amendments to the Maine Human Rights act that prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation. It also is one of those rare times when a law court decision makes law, according to the American Civil Liberties Union of Maine.

 

 

 



#6 MasaTFC

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:50 AM

It seems to me that countries that expose their "people" to alcohol at a younger age then say the U.S. at 21 have a lower incidence of alcoholism. Perhaps if we weren't such prudes here in the U.S. then we would have fewer crimes tied to sexual aggression or exploitation.

 

I really could care less about the ruling as the ruling itself doesn't effect me but this part was interesting:

 

That is an interesting point you highlighted from the article.

 

I found the whole issue of transgender kind of hard to discuss in a class it was presented in last semester, as I have no idea of what those folks go through. But you make an interesting analogy, that "exposure" (theres a bad pun in here) may help curb crimes, and to further the discussion, potential hate crimes and discrimination.

 

thanks for the topic post, going to bring this up with my prof next week.


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#7 GBAstar

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:59 AM

That is an interesting point you highlighted from the article.

 

I found the whole issue of transgender kind of hard to discuss in a class it was presented in last semester, as I have no idea of what those folks go through. But you make an interesting analogy, that "exposure" (theres a bad pun in here) may help curb crimes, and to further the discussion, potential hate crimes and discrimination.

 

thanks for the topic post, going to bring this up with my prof next week.

 

Me either.

 

At the risk of sounding like an uneducated bigot by drawing wild parallels I don't understand why today we can accept that someone born a man, and who is physically a man based on their sex organ, hormones, chromosomes etc. can legally be defined as women based on their perception of themselves (an idea that would have seemed unthinkable 100 years ago) but a human being can't be accepted as say a feline if that is what they perceive themselves to be.

 

I know the comparison is silly but where do we draw the line? Their are certifiable conditions where people love inanimate objects, animals etc. Certainly there are conditions where they identify as those things?



#8 MasaTFC

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:41 AM

Me either.

At the risk of sounding like an uneducated bigot by drawing wild parallels I don't understand why today we can accept that someone born a man, and who is physically a man based on their sex organ, hormones, chromosomes etc. can legally be defined as women based on their perception of themselves (an idea that would have seemed unthinkable 100 years ago) but a human being can't be accepted as say a feline if that is what they perceive themselves to be.

I know the comparison is silly but where do we draw the line? Their are certifiable conditions where people love inanimate objects, animals etc. Certainly there are conditions where they identify as those things?


well, i suppose there are folks that identify as other creatures (i think of a person in some documentary that has tattoos like a leopard and actual whiskers as well as their teeth are sharpened like fangs). and there is always that story about the person who ate too much LSD and now thinks they are a glass of orange juice.

honestly, i can only direct you to a piece on 20/20 that was about children whom are transgender. I would post the link, but i am on my phone. its interesting in how they examine what TG folks go through and insights on how that might come about. look for it on youtube.

i think it was thomas jefferson who said "if it doesnt break my back or pinch my wallet.." or something like that :)

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#9 Spokker

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:56 AM

I don't care who uses the men's restroom. The men's restroom is disgusting as it is. FtM trannies tend to be chill, also.

But I would think that real women would want some privacy from the wackos that are MtF trannies who have all the perversions that men have and more. Scissors don't cure trannies. It's really as simple as that.

Suffice to say, I'll be voting in favor or repealing the California law that allows this. Let real women decide this.

#10 egofed

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 05:32 PM

This is ludicrous . We should change the pictures on bathroom doors to "dick" and "no dick". How you feel doesn't matter.

#11 GBAstar

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

This is ludicrous . We should change the pictures on bathroom doors to "dick" and "no dick". How you feel doesn't matter.

 

This story was on the front page of Yahoo! earlier today.... it certainly will have ramifications moving forward for public schools.

 

I was just most disturbed by this bullshit....

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-165405315.html

 

 

 

Colorado officials said last year that a suburban Colorado Springs school district discriminated against a 6-year-old transgender girl by preventing her from using the girls' bathroom.
 
In California, there's an effort afoot to try to repeal a law that allows public school students to use bathrooms and locker rooms that correspond with their expressed genders.
 
In the Maine case, Nicole Maines was using the girls' bathroom in her elementary school until the grandfather of a fifth-grade boy complained to administrators. The Orono school district determined that she should use a staff bathroom, but her parents said that amounted to discrimination.
 
Nicole is a biological male who identified as a girl beginning at age 2.

 

 
 
You see age restrictions for things like R-rated movies, tattoos, drinking, voting, smoking, driving but we are allowing a two year old, and even a six year old to decide they are transgender? That is just bad parenting and irresponsible enabling from the medical community.
 
If someone wants to butcher their body at 18 years old because they suffer from some condition or disease or FUBAR mental state them please let them do that, pay for it out of their own pocket, and I'll support their decision. Maybe DD can tell you how his home state (MA) is using tax payer money to pay for an inmate to have a sex change and take hormones while incarcerated (isn't he a lifer?) 
 
If not being allowed to use the girls bathroom because you have a dong between your legs makes you feel discriminated against... and you use the "statistics say transgender youth commit suicide at a rate exponentially higher (and are more successful) the normal youth" line to support your agenda then I'll be inclined to think that is just a great example of natural selection working and we should continue with the status quo.
 
Giving access to separate but equal facilities is not discrimination. Possibly making hundreds of regular Jane and John Doe's uncomfortable in each school system because you supported your son's/daughters condition from the age of TWO is just idiotic.


#12 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:11 PM

So this kid still has a dick but is now using a girl's bathroom? Priceless..



#13 GBAstar

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:21 PM

So this kid still has a dick but is now using a girl's bathroom? Priceless..

 

Yeah they've been allowed to do since elementary school. In fact the article states the child was apparently self aware enough to decide that he was a "she" at the early age of two.

 

The school system went along with it until the transgender student was in 5th grade and another student's grandfather complained about the whole situation (i.e. the transgender "girl" (physical boy) with a penis being allowed to use the girl facilities). The grandfather actually encouraged his grandson to also use the girls bathroom which for good reason the school did not allow (and was kind of a dick move on the grandfather's point)

 

At that point the school system said the transgender student would have to use the staff facilities. The transgender's family then sued the school district for "discriminating" against their child.

 

Initially the court decided in the interest of the school but that was overturned this week by a supreme court vote of 5-1. I wonder how much time and money was spent on this case in the last 4 years or so.... millions for special interests is always a good investment...

 

If someone wants to be or feels they are transgender then I say we support them (I don't think you encourage it at two years old though) and any instance where the kid is harassed or teased should be dealt with on a case by case basis and by all accounts the school system did an absolutely excellent job with that from the pictures that are painted by the newspaper

 

 

As far as I'm concerned though it's not violation the students rights by asking them to use a separate but equal bathroom... especially if other students had concerns.

 

 

It's only going to get worse.... I remember Denny's (the restaurant) losing a legal case because they would not let a man (customer) use the women's restroom. Apparently this "man" who was dressed in man's clothing, and had a penis, had been seeing a doctor for gender identity issues and it was determined, in court, that Denny's could not legally prevent the man from using the bathroom of the sex they identified as.



#14 irideabike

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:36 PM

To answer the topic question I think it's disgusting and would immediately pull my daughter from the school. There is no way she will deal with that. It's bad enough that I have to think about all the other creeps out there much less ones of the opposite sex trying to use her bathroom.

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#15 renique46

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:37 AM

Yeah because I'm sure they would give a shit about her.



#16 Spokker

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:08 PM

To answer the topic question I think it's disgusting and would immediately pull my daughter from the school. There is no way she will deal with that. It's bad enough that I have to think about all the other creeps out there much less ones of the opposite sex trying to use her bathroom.

In high school I would allow this because the students themselves would probably be drunk on tolerance and acceptance and support it. If they want tolerance, give it to them.

But in elementary school? Junior high? Hell no.

#17 mykevermin

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

But I would think that real women 

"Real women" is a nice succinct microcosm of some of the issues that trans folks face on a day to day basis.

 

I don't think for a moment that you meant that phrase with any malice intended, but equating biology as being the market that makes one "real" and the other "fake" (or something similar, where you are implicitly questioning their legitimacy) is fallacious.


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#18 egofed

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 03:34 PM

"Real women" is a nice succinct microcosm of some of the issues that trans folks face on a day to day basis.

 

I don't think for a moment that you meant that phrase with any malice intended, but equating biology as being the market that makes one "real" and the other "fake" (or something similar, where you are implicitly questioning their legitimacy) is fallacious.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....so biological anatomy is not how we define man from woman now? Are you in favor of just unisex restrooms that everyone uses? That might be the best solution. We are all humans, and how often do you actually see anyone else's privates when using a public restroom.

 

 

Real woman = no dick ;)



#19 mykevermin

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:22 PM

What I'm saying is that the "biological" assignments we identify as making "men" and "women" are arbitrary.

 

It's tough to think that way if the depth of your intellectualism is a "dick/no dick" binary.

 

But, like race, the biological characteristics that we identify as relevant markers that determine and influence behavior are as fascinating as those that we ignore as relevant cultural markers. There are, in short, a number of biological characteristics that we consider important and a number that we disregard, ignore, or oversimplify when we reduce biology down to...ahem..."dick or no dick."


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#20 Sarang01

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:05 PM

Some of your comments are just disgusting and reprehensible.  I'm reminded of the worry about Gay people in the Military and the fear of them showering with fellow troops(preceeding repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell").  The assumption was that Gay men and women are raving sex maniacs and would take the chance of raping a hot, straight man or woman in the shower whenever they could.  Same idiots forget there are things called Gyms both Gay and Straight members attend.

Look, I know there are desperate men, maybe some would consider crossdressing to sneak into women's bathrooms.  However, those people are few and far between.  What makes this story even more ridiculous is the sexual implication involved.  Kids 8 and under, for the most part aren't thinking about sex.  That girl is looking at the other girls and seeing them for what they are...fellow girls.  They consider their crotch a disfigurement, not something to get hard and rape someone in the bathroom with.


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#21 GBAstar

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:16 PM

Some of your comments are just disgusting and reprehensible.  I'm reminded of the worry about Gay people in the Military and the fear of them showering with fellow troops(preceeding repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell").  The assumption was that Gay men and women are raving sex maniacs and would take the chance of raping a hot, straight man or woman in the shower whenever they could.  Same idiots forget there are things called Gyms both Gay and Straight members attend.

Look, I know there are desperate men, maybe some would consider crossdressing to sneak into women's bathrooms.  However, those people are few and far between.  What makes this story even more ridiculous is the sexual implication involved.  Kids 8 and under, for the most part aren't thinking about sex.  That girl is looking at the other girls and seeing them for what they are...fellow girls.  They consider their crotch a disfigurement, not something to get hard and rape someone in the bathroom with.

 

What is sick is trying to convince the court of public opinion that your two year old "child" is self aware enough to have gender identity issues.

 

Should be encouraging any boy who plays with a Barbie at two years old to tuck their penis between their legs and start acting like a girl? Or any girl who plays with GI Joes to start acting like a boy?



#22 Sarang01

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:59 PM

It amazes me what an idiot you can be.  There's a difference between sexual orientation, that is, who you want to be romantically involved with and what you perceive yourself as genderwise.  Gender has to do with a BODY feeling, not something sexual like getting a hard-on or getting wet.

Imagine if you got cut or impaled with a chunk of wood, would you not feel fundamentally off, like something is wrong?  That's how Transsexual children feel, like something is wrong.  Some may feel it extremely early while others, something feels off but it takes a while to recognize.
I even now kinda hate us using the term gender as you're getting it confused with sexual orientation, lets just call it body.  I truly hope this helps clarify it for you.
I'm sorry for calling you an idiot but you can frustrate me at times, being so Conservative talking point bent to the point of indoctrination.  Don't get me wrong, I hate MSNBC as much as FOX.  One is Pravda and the other Isvetsiya.


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#23 Andami

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:58 PM

Maybe some things should be cleared up first. Sex is biological. If you have XX, you are female. If you have XY, you are male. Nothing can change that. There are a few exceptions such as intersex conditions, but, for the most part, everyone is firmly in one of these two categories. Gender, on the other hand, is the perception of one's self as a specific sex. If you are biologically female, but identify as male because you perceive yourself to be, then your gender is male. There really isn't any way to contest that.

 

Now to my opinion. Restrooms are, as far as I'm aware, not segregated based on gender. Mixed restrooms are considered unisex and not uni-gender. Preferably, all restrooms should be mixed ("separate but equal" is not constitutionally protected for sex, but it should be). As that is not the case, and restrooms are indeed segregated based on sex, I see no reason why a biological male should be using a restroom intended for biological females. The whole point of restroom segregation is separating those with vaginas from those with penises. It really is as simple as that.

 

And I guess I've gone off a tangent, but gender is an idiotic concept anyway. Societal constructs on how you are supposed to act or feel based on sex are pointless concepts in this day and age.



#24 GBAstar

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:17 PM

It amazes me what an idiot you can be.  There's a difference between sexual orientation, that is, who you want to be romantically involved with and what you perceive yourself as genderwise.  Gender has to do with a BODY feeling, not something sexual like getting a hard-on or getting wet.

Imagine if you got cut or impaled with a chunk of wood, would you not feel fundamentally off, like something is wrong?  That's how Transsexual children feel, like something is wrong.  Some may feel it extremely early while others, something feels off but it takes a while to recognize.
I even now kinda hate us using the term gender as you're getting it confused with sexual orientation, lets just call it body.  I truly hope this helps clarify it for you.
I'm sorry for calling you an idiot but you can frustrate me at times, being so Conservative talking point bent to the point of indoctrination.  Don't get me wrong, I hate MSNBC as much as FOX.  One is Pravda and the other Isvetsiya.

 

You think a child is self aware enough at two years old to understand they are transgender? And at two years old do you support your child in that endeavor? And do you start asking their daycare provider, elementary school, church, etc. to support your child? Do you sign them up for the girls rec soccer league even though biologically they are a male, and look like a male, and are maturing as a male?



#25 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:45 AM

It amazes me what an idiot you can be.  There's a difference between sexual orientation, that is, who you want to be romantically involved with and what you perceive yourself as genderwise.  Gender has to do with a BODY feeling, not something sexual like getting a hard-on or getting wet.

Imagine if you got cut or impaled with a chunk of wood, would you not feel fundamentally off, like something is wrong?  That's how Transsexual children feel, like something is wrong.  Some may feel it extremely early while others, something feels off but it takes a while to recognize.
I even now kinda hate us using the term gender as you're getting it confused with sexual orientation, lets just call it body.  I truly hope this helps clarify it for you.
I'm sorry for calling you an idiot but you can frustrate me at times, being so Conservative talking point bent to the point of indoctrination.  Don't get me wrong, I hate MSNBC as much as FOX.  One is Pravda and the other Isvetsiya.

If you are sorry for calling someone an idiot then why even do it? 

 

So tell me, a gay man should have a right to use a female bathroom?



#26 davo1224

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:05 AM

mrsilkunderwear, on 03 Feb 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

If you are sorry for calling someone an idiot then why even do it? 

 

So tell me, a gay man should have a right to use a female bathroom?

Why would he want to? There's no urinals and I'm sure he'd be grossed out by any discussion of menstruation.

 

Pretty big leap in logic (or lack thereof).



#27 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

Why would he want to? There's no urinals and I'm sure he'd be grossed out by any discussion of menstruation.

 

Pretty big leap in logic (or lack thereof).

Whats this thread about? 



#28 dohdough

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

Whats this thread about?


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So if a person is born the sex of a male, is transgendered female, and wants to be with girls, is that person gay?
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#29 mrsilkunderwear

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:15 PM

Mega%2BFacepalm%2BGif.%2BFor%2Byour%2Bre

So if a person is born the sex of a male, is transgendered female, and wants to be with girls, is that person gay?

I apologize if I was unclear. All I wanted to know is if a gay men should be allowed to use a female bathroom? 



#30 willardhaven

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:25 PM

So if a person is born the sex of a male, is transgendered female, and wants to be with girls, is that person gay?

 

I think a transgender female (born male) who is attracted to women is gay. A heterosexual transgender female would be attracted to men.

 

Others feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.


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