Why Do People "Invest" In Games?

This has got to be the worst investment you can think of doing. I'm talking about people who buy sealed games and then keep them sealed. More often than not, the game does not go up in price, and even if it does, it's not enough to warrant the investment. Let's take Final Fantasy VII for example. That game initally cost what? About 50 bucks, right? On eBay, the highest one with actual bids on it is $100 bucks. But some other people have it Buy For Now for $150-200 bucks, unless it's a misprint, so let's be generous and say a sealed copy of FFVII is now worth $200 bucks. The game came out in 1997, over 11 years ago. So this 11 year investment got you $150 bucks at most? You could make more than that in a week at a minimum wage job.

Even if a game does go up enormously in value, this is pretty much a one in a million shot, so why do people keep their games sealed?

More than likely because it's part of their hobby and they enjoy it.

You're correct in assuming that most cases of buying and keeping sealed in hopes of selling don't work out. However, your argument is flawed. You assume that all games bought are at full price, when in reality it is often the case that "investors" buy their games on clearance. For example, I have a sealed copy of FFVII that I'm holding on to which was bought for $5 and a sealed Majora's Mask which was $4. It doesn't cost me anything to keep them and the value will likely only go up in the future.

If you can manage to find something valuable/potentially valuable for a low price it only makes sense to buy.

[quote name='Strider Turbulence']More than likely because it's part of their hobby and they enjoy it.[/quote]

I understand collecting games and playing them, but collecting games just to keep shrinkwrapped? That's nuts to me.

[quote name='onikage']You're correct in assuming that most cases of buying and keeping sealed in hopes of selling don't work out. However, your argument is flawed. You assume that all games bought are at full price, when in reality it is often the case that "investors" buy their games on clearance. For example, I have a sealed copy of FFVII that I'm holding on to which was bought for $5 and a sealed Majora's Mask which was $4. It doesn't cost me anything to keep them and the value will likely only go up in the future.

If you can manage to find something valuable/potentially valuable for a low price it only makes sense to buy.[/quote]

Even if you bought it for $5, that's still only a $145 investment after 11 years. I mean, if you bought it relatively recently and plan on selling it soon, then yeah, that changes things and it would definitely be worth it. But to keep it for 11 years for $145 bucks? That's less than $14 a year. If it continues to go up at the same rate, which is highly unlikely, you're only looking at a $14 a year increase, so what's the point?

I don't know of anyone who makes it a sort of investment plan to go out and buy sealed games like your post details. Literally, no one. I would say 95% of the people who collect games are also gamers. When I buy a game, I usually plan on opening and playing it. For me, it's kind of like "Gotta catch them all!" I would love to have a complete collection of something-- I'm almost there with Dreamcast. I'm about 14 games away from the complete North American collection. But I'm too lazy-- anyway I digress. I do have a few sealed games I'll never open-- something like Twilight Princess for the Gamecube. I have the Wii version already, but got the GC version cheap. I didn't buy it with the intentions of making money off of one day, but the fact that it was cheap and compliments my GC collection well. If it raises in value, it only puts a smile on my face-- it will never fatten my wallet, along with any other game that may raise in value that I own.

[quote name='gettinmoney662']
Even if you bought it for $5, that's still only a $145 investment after 11 years. I mean, if you bought it relatively recently and plan on selling it soon, then yeah, that changes things and it would definitely be worth it. But to keep it for 11 years for $145 bucks? That's less than $14 a year. If it continues to go up at the same rate, which is highly unlikely, you're only looking at a $14 a year increase, so what's the point?[/quote]

In the 11-year case it would make much more sense to invest your money elsewhere. I suppose with games it should usually be more of a flipping situation as opposed to considering them investments. That is, finding something cheap that can be readily sold for a profit. There are many exceptions to this rule though, especially in the case of older, more desirable games such as Chrono Trigger.

As for the value of Final Fantasy VII, black label copies usually go for a lot more than $200. I noticed a few on eBay that recently went for around that amount, but they didn't have the Y-fold seal and may not have actually been factory sealed.

[quote name='gettinmoney662']I understand collecting games and playing them, but collecting games just to keep shrinkwrapped? That's nuts to me.



Even if you bought it for $5, that's still only a $145 investment after 11 years. I mean, if you bought it relatively recently and plan on selling it soon, then yeah, that changes things and it would definitely be worth it. But to keep it for 11 years for $145 bucks? That's less than $14 a year. If it continues to go up at the same rate, which is highly unlikely, you're only looking at a $14 a year increase, so what's the point?[/quote]

The point is that you would have just made $145. No matter which way you throw it, that's pretty awesome if you ask me. Yeah, you can work a small job and make that money pretty quick,...but the point is that you made the money and didn't have to work for it. Imagine if you had a small collection of 50 sealed games and made $145 on each of them..that's $7250! I don't get why you think $145 is a small increase, or not worth it over a long period of time. I don't collect sealed games, but I've seen people online racking up tons of money selling loads of sealed games...it really can pay off big time if people have the right games.

It isn't about the money though to most people, it is just about collecting. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't bring excitement to other people.

Personally, I have a bad habit of buying games that look interesting and then finding I don't have enough time to play them. Luckily, the games that interest me tend to be small print run RPGs that hold their value well. Often, I clean out my video game room and unload a bunch on eBay. I don't intend to "invest" in games, it just seems to work out that way. I guess my best "investment" so far was the copy of Suikoden II that I picked up for $20 and eBayed for much more.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I don't know of anyone who makes it a sort of investment plan to go out and buy sealed games like your post details. Literally, no one. I would say 95% of the people who collect games are also gamers. When I buy a game, I usually plan on opening and playing it. For me, it's kind of like "Gotta catch them all!" I would love to have a complete collection of something-- I'm almost there with Dreamcast. I'm about 14 games away from the complete North American collection. But I'm too lazy-- anyway I digress. I do have a few sealed games I'll never open-- something like Twilight Princess for the Gamecube. I have the Wii version already, but got the GC version cheap. I didn't buy it with the intentions of making money off of one day, but the fact that it was cheap and compliments my GC collection well. If it raises in value, it only puts a smile on my face-- it will never fatten my wallet, along with any other game that may raise in value that I own.[/quote]

Yeah, but you wouldn't have any problem opening that game, right? I'm not talking about collecting games, I'm actually starting to get into collecting Playstation games, but I'm doing it with the ultimate goal of playing them, not just to have them.

[quote name='onikage']In the 11-year case it would make much more sense to invest your money elsewhere. I suppose with games it should usually be more of a flipping situation as opposed to considering them investments. That is, finding something cheap that can be readily sold for a profit. There are many exceptions to this rule though, especially in the case of older, more desirable games such as Chrono Trigger.

As for the value of Final Fantasy VII, black label copies usually go for a lot more than $200. I noticed a few on eBay that recently went for around that amount, but they didn't have the Y-fold seal and may not have actually been factory sealed.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree with the flipping part. I actually bought a copy of Persona 2 when it was recently released on Amazon cause I'm pretty sure I can flip it for some money. However, with the long term investment thing, I don't think there are that many exceptions as you think; especially not enough to balance the risk of investing, at least in my opinion.

I guess this situation is similar to collecting action figures and how those collectors never open their figures. I don't understand the point in collecting something like that, although the main difference in that and video games is that those are much more likely to increase in value and pretty much all of their value is lost once they are opened, which I don't think is really the case with video games. They lose some of the value, sure, but not a whole lot.

[quote name='GaveUpTomorrow']The point is that you would have just made $145. No matter which way you throw it, that's pretty awesome if you ask me. Yeah, you can work a small job and make that money pretty quick,...but the point is that you made the money and didn't have to work for it. Imagine if you had a small collection of 50 sealed games and made $145 on each of them..that's $7250! I don't get why you think $145 is a small increase, or not worth it over a long period of time. I don't collect sealed games, but I've seen people online racking up tons of money selling loads of sealed games...it really can pay off big time if people have the right games.

It isn't about the money though to most people, it is just about collecting. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't bring excitement to other people.[/quote]

Yes, that would be nice if you had 50 games that you bought for $5 and you could flip for $150, but the chances of that are one in a million.

Simple, as seen in this thread, people don't understand the ideas of rate of return and opportunity costs well. Some people when they want to speculate on something like to speculate on things they like, such a video games. Other people think that they can make more money in collectible markets than stocks or bonds and the like. The comic book boom/bust of the early 90s was because of that, people buying too much of stuff for the hopes it would become valuable when a large percentage of purchasers were speculators themselves. So yes, its rarely rational to speculate on video games at original retail. For cheaper prices it can be profitable at short-time flipping intervals. And yes, it is rarely worth the opportunity cost for holding a game for 10 years even if purchased at a price much lower than retail.

I only keep one game sealed. Its a second copy of the Zelda Collectors Edition. They sent me two. http://cube.ign.com/objects/608/608263.html

Because they're worth more then the American dollar.

It is hard to predict which games will some day be considered rare. Now, while it is hard to speculate what will be in the future, let's look at the present and take the Atari 2600 for example, of which game cartridges were produced 30 years ago. Had you held on to them, would you be rich?

Well, most games are not worth that much (for example many games are not worth even $10 when they are new in the box!). For games that did rise in value, the condition is very important- if it's not new in box then the value lowers dramatically. If it's not complete in box, the value lowers even more. Though if you at the time, for example, made the choice to hoard many copies of a chasethechuckwagon game (which is considered pretty rare) and have it in new condition, you would be making a nice profit today. Again, at a certain time it is hard to predict what will become sought after vs what will end up at the garbage bins. Also, there are counter forces- as soon as you release your "hoarded" copies to the market, the perceived rarity of the item decreases and value decreases as well. A good example of it is Marvel Vs Capcom 2 for the PS2. Up to like a year ago, it was pretty rare to see those in the market and it was fetching up to $400 for a new copy, and perhaps $150 for just the game! But then, people caught on and flooded the market with it, trying to cash in, thus dramatically lowering its rarity and value.

Now, back to modern games. Is it worth to buy just for investment purposes? I think not. I see most of the modern games ending up in a future garbage bin. If you must, invest in some title from a well known series that would be remembered in the future. Maybe Final Fantasy. Also, another type of games which are worth investing in is those with limited production (Such as the Marvel Vs Capcom that got discontinued. Look for games that are suddenly discontinued from production prematurely. Although this doesn't guarantee the game will be worth anything in the future (and it most likely won't be), it raises the chance a bit. Also, if you do end up buying for investment purposes, the most important thing is to keep it in original, new condition. If you must play the game, get another copy for playing purposes.

To be honest I really don't like it when people do this mainly because of the cost of certain games. FF7 I never got to play because I didn't own a Playstation. Well now I would love to play it but I'm not going to pay more than $50 because there are more games of very high quality that I could get with those $50 dollars. What makes it even more frustrating is that the game sold an insane amount of copies and yet they are being sold for so much. This isn't a rare Atlus game. It's an insane blockbuster hit.

[quote name='gettinmoney662']I guess this situation is similar to collecting action figures and how those collectors never open their figures. I don't understand the point in collecting something like that, although the main difference in that and video games is that those are much more likely to increase in value and pretty much all of their value is lost once they are opened, which I don't think is really the case with video games. They lose some of the value, sure, but not a whole lot.[/QUOTE]
Your analogy to action figure collecting is a fair one, save for two points. Action figures/toys can oftentimes still be enjoyed when they're MIB/MOC, since many of them come in window or blister packaging; they can't be played with or posed, but they can still be looked at, displayed, and enjoyed.

The second point has to do with value. Sure, loose figures tend to be worth a lot less than sealed ones, but that same situation can still happen with games, though not as frequently. Look at what a factory-sealed SNES Chrono Trigger goes for compared to a loose cart.

(Also, for the record, I'm a toy collector myself, focusing mainly on Japanese figures. I open the packages of most new toys I get, but there are several I keep sealed and/or in storage, mainly because I'm starting to run out of space.)

[quote name='Grico']The comic book boom/bust of the early 90s was because of that, people buying too much of stuff for the hopes it would become valuable when a large percentage of purchasers were speculators themselves.[/QUOTE]
Yep. I don't think the same thing will happen with games, because it's a much more popular medium than comics, but I do think that the glut of "collector's editions" we're starting to see now will dry up sooner or later.

[quote name='Nifty_Shark']What makes it even more frustrating is that the game sold an insane amount of copies and yet they are being sold for so much. This isn't a rare Atlus game. It's an insane blockbuster hit.[/QUOTE]
That's because people tend to hold on to their copies of FFVII, either for collectability reasons (since it's an RPG) or because they simply love the game. There are also several copies out there that have been scratched to hell or even lost disks over the years.

Some people just like to collect things, be it games, comic books, sports cards etc.

Never been my cup of tea, but to each their own. I just buy games I want to play (or pick them up off Goozex etc.) beat them and sell/Goozex the majority right away. Except for multiplayer games I want to keep around, or something I'll want to play again down the road (games with multiple paths etc.).

[quote name='gettinmoney662']Even if you bought it for $5, that's still only a $145 investment after 11 years. I mean, if you bought it relatively recently and plan on selling it soon, then yeah, that changes things and it would definitely be worth it. But to keep it for 11 years for $145 bucks? That's less than $14 a year. If it continues to go up at the same rate, which is highly unlikely, you're only looking at a $14 a year increase, so what's the point?[/quote]

I think you're misunderstanding how the investment works in this example.

After 11 years, he made $150, but you can't look at it like that. You can only really evaluate it based on his return from how much you initially invested. In this case, his initial investment was $5. That's a 750% return on an initial investment after 11 years (68% per year), which is good by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying that investing in games is a good idea. I'm just saying that this particular example is one where the investor did quite well for himself. I'd ask that you find a stock that performed at a rate of return as good as this, with the minimal risk that this provides.

[quote name='GuardianE']I think you're misunderstanding how the investment works in this example.

After 11 years, he made $150, but you can't look at it like that. You can only really evaluate it based on his return from how much you initially invested. In this case, his initial investment was $5. That's a 750% return on an initial investment after 11 years (68% per year), which is good by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not saying that investing in games is a good idea. I'm just saying that this particular example is one where the investor did quite well for himself. I'd ask that you find a stock that performed at a rate of return as good as this, with the minimal risk that this provides.[/quote]

Yeah, I was expecting someone to bring that argument, to which I counter with, who cares? It was an investment that was limited to $5. While a rate of return of 68% is phenomenonal in the world of stocks and bonds, it loses its luster when it is applied to a $5 dollar investment.

How about when I buy a game, play it till I'm sick of it, and then sell it used for more than I paid for it new? Gitaroo Man and MvC2 were games like that and I had them for 2 years at most.

YOu could apply this argument to anything that people collect. These things that are collected may not be of any value until the a generation or two, some poeple like to pass things they enjoy on to their children. I have some sealed games, but I am going to open and play them. I just like to keep the games, never know if they are going to go up in value one day, and you never know when you might want to play them. Its not like it takes much effort to hold on to a game and don't open it... I am holding on to Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2

For me it used to be more of a hobby rather than an actual investment. Though it worked out well because I found a goldmine Toys R Us, made money and stashed away lots of games that later helped me pay off some debt and get through a rough period of life.

In perspective though it's def not something I'd recommend as a solid investment plan though. Like, I said, hobby. Everyone needs a hobby.

[quote name='gettinmoney662']Yeah, I was expecting someone to bring that argument, to which I counter with, who cares? It was an investment that was limited to $5. While a rate of return of 68% is phenomenonal in the world of stocks and bonds, it loses its luster when it is applied to a $5 dollar investment.[/quote]

True. But I can think of more worthless ways to spend $5. I mean, if you told me that I could put $5 in a jar and it would turn into $150-200 eleven years from now, I'd do it. I'd skip out on getting that Subway $5 footlong and just throw it in the jar. Same principle.

And we may be downplaying some collectors who will grab 5-10 copies of a game on clearance to collect.

In any case, like many have already said, I think that most collectors do so because it's their hobby and they enjoy it.

As one who has bought and sold games for 20 years now i never stop being amazed at how some games have risen in value. Most of the sealed games ive owned were just games i never got around to playing. But their value was noticeable when it came time to sell them. I buy and sell as a hobby, definitely, not as anything more than fun, which is why ive always gamed, just for the sake of fun. Its fun though to see how much money you can make on a game, i play the stock market some and this strokes my curiosity in a similar way sometimes....

[quote name='Thomas96']YOu could apply this argument to anything that people collect. These things that are collected may not be of any value until the a generation or two, some poeple like to pass things they enjoy on to their children. I have some sealed games, but I am going to open and play them. I just like to keep the games, never know if they are going to go up in value one day, and you never know when you might want to play them. Its not like it takes much effort to hold on to a game and don't open it... I am holding on to Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2[/QUOTE]

Well in your example DDS1 got a reprint and even the value of a deluxe box took a hit, and DDS2 seems to be next on a reprint list.


[quote name='farfus']As one who has bought and sold games for 20 years now i never stop being amazed at how some games have risen in value. Most of the sealed games ive owned were just games i never got around to playing. But their value was noticeable when it came time to sell them. I buy and sell as a hobby, definitely, not as anything more than fun, which is why ive always gamed, just for the sake of fun. Its fun though to see how much money you can make on a game, i play the stock market some and this strokes my curiosity in a similar way sometimes....[/QUOTE]

Most of us agree with the value of the older stuff, but most of us dont think that will happen with the new stuff, epically for used copy.

For anyone actually thinking of investment, the only logical choice is black label copy of FFXII and Kingdom Hearts 2. With the fan base those games will have no chance of decreasing value, even if they are ported to next generation system.

Definitely agree, its the older games that have long term value. There may be some value in some of the newer games, but it would have to be a good while before that will become known. I just recently got a nice deal on FFVII in great shape, black label, gonna store it a while and watch and see if the price escalates. Ive made some sweet sales this year on games i bought 7-8 years ago, probably made at least a 50% or more profit. But with the value of the U.S. dollar being what it is the overall profit isnt as good as it could be...

[quote name='GuardianE']And we may be downplaying some collectors who will grab 5-10 copies of a game on clearance to collect.

In any case, like many have already said, I think that most collectors do so because it's their hobby and they enjoy it.[/QUOTE]

Is it just me, or is that seriously stretching the definition of "collector"?

To me, a guy that buys multiple copies of a clearance game is a "flipper". The only difference is that this particular one will wait much longer before cashing in his chips, so to speak. I would think the value a "collector" places on items in his collection is beyond monetary worth.

[quote name='Renaissance 2K']Is it just me, or is that seriously stretching the definition of "collector"?

To me, a guy that buys multiple copies of a clearance game is a "flipper". The only difference is that this particular one will wait much longer before cashing in his chips, so to speak. I would think the value a "collector" places on items in his collection is beyond monetary worth.[/quote]

Yeah, you're probably right. Maybe I'm throwing the term around too loosely. But there are actual collectors/gamers who will buy 2 copies of a game just because they love it. One to keep sealed and one to play. I guess five might be stretching it, though.

I've collected for a while. best investment ever.

I've made hundreds over the last couple years. I've resold 3 lunar games for 3 times the price. Also sold MUSHA for the sega for $50 after buying it for $3. I've sold about 4-5 chrono triggers for more than quadruple. I've also sold my sega cd snatcher for over $130. There's only money in old games. Not new games.

I was laid off than i sold most of my collection and still paid bills as if i still had a job.

I still sale games, check my ebay auctions.

[quote name='doodle777_98']I've collected for a while. best investment ever.

I've made hundreds over the last couple years. I've resold 3 lunar games for 3 times the price. Also sold MUSHA for the sega for $50 after buying it for $3. I've sold about 4-5 chrono triggers for more than quadruple. I've also sold my sega cd snatcher for over $130. There's only money in old games. Not new games.

I was laid off than i sold most of my collection and still paid bills as if i still had a job.

I still sale games, check my ebay auctions.[/quote]

You think making hundreds over a few years is the best investment ever? Yikes.

Even flipping makes me wonder (let alone "investment"). I read these threads about people spending half the day driving around, buying three copies of a game at Store A for $10 each, then trading them in at Store B for $15 each, and I just think, after you've factored in the time and gas money, wouldn't it be better to just get a part-time job? It's just hard for me to believe that anyone makes a worthwhile amount of money from flipping (again, factoring in money for gas, and relative to the time spent).

[quote name='Ryuukishi']Even flipping makes me wonder (let alone "investment"). I read these threads about people spending half the day driving around, buying three copies of a game at Store A for $10 each, then trading them in at Store B for $15 each, and I just think, after you've factored in the time and gas money, wouldn't it be better to just get a part-time job? It's just hard for me to believe that anyone makes a worthwhile amount of money from flipping (again, factoring in money for gas, and relative to the time spent).[/quote]

I have taken it into account. And it is still lucrative. Even when factoring in wear and tear on my vehicle.

yes, hundreds. not a couple hundred. right now i've made more with games than my stocks. I'm just saying old games are worth money. not new games. It's pointless to invest the full price of a new game.

[quote name='gettinmoney662']You think making hundreds over a few years is the best investment ever? Yikes.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='pacifickarma']Personally, I have a bad habit of buying games that look interesting and then finding I don't have enough time to play them. Luckily, the games that interest me tend to be small print run RPGs that hold their value well. Often, I clean out my video game room and unload a bunch on eBay. I don't intend to "invest" in games, it just seems to work out that way. I guess my best "investment" so far was the copy of Suikoden II that I picked up for $20 and eBayed for much more.[/QUOTE]Ha I know what you mean with the "accidental investing". I recently sold a handful of games on Amazon, not because I ever considered the games "investments" but because I've been saving for a new car. I got average prices for some games; Rez PS2 was slightly less than I paid originally, but it was part of a B2G1 when I got it and it has been functionally replaced by the XBLA version anyway. Other games ended up being the aforementioned "accidental investments"... I never opened my Pikmin 2 that I got on TRU $10 clearance, and it sold for $78! A few opened PS1 games fetched surprising amounts as well, much more than what I originally paid.

I agree that buying these games with the INTENTION of investing wouldn't have been wise, but it worked out well. I got a few hundred bucks out of nowhere, during a time where I'm frantically clawing at every last cent for some necessary expenses. But I've got a little "luxury stash" that I can use for some judicious video game spending now, and that's nice.

[quote name='Ryuukishi']Even flipping makes me wonder (let alone "investment"). I read these threads about people spending half the day driving around, buying three copies of a game at Store A for $10 each, then trading them in at Store B for $15 each, and I just think, after you've factored in the time and gas money, wouldn't it be better to just get a part-time job? It's just hard for me to believe that anyone makes a worthwhile amount of money from flipping (again, factoring in money for gas, and relative to the time spent).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, for me it's just the time factor. I'm busy as hell and I'd rather save time than money unless it's a tremendous amount of money.

I just use Goozex, it's still a hassle to mail out games, but less than driving around and flipping. Plus I refuse to shop in any of the game stores so it's a moot point anyway.