Does a mandatory $15 a hr raise work

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I say no, you can't make a blanket law to force a $15 raise for everyone.  Because not all businesses bring in multi-million a year profit.

If you want to force JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, or Mcdonalds corp to pay a janitor $15 I can support that because those companies generate huge profits that goes to their fat cats pockets.

Why not just tax those corporate fat cats instead, because many low wage employees are also on public assistance and if these fats cats won't raise their wages the gov't should just tax them.

So they can either raise wages like a decent employer or have the gov't take their money and distribute it properly.

 
You will see the unemployment  number in these states  skyrocket within the next few years...  One   if  a company is paying someone  8 bucks an hour and now  is forced to pay  15 bucks an hour, but cant jack up their cost   they are going to fire  one out of every 2 people...   Second people  wont work cause it will say it  takes their benifts away.   People are going to complain their goverment checks are being taken away and not work.   So sick of people thinking they are  OWE   15 bucks and hour and FREE this and  FREE  that.  we  demand free health care ,  I pay  6,000 a year for my health care and  cant get any help. i make  25,000 a year that is   1/4 of my paycheck going to health care.  What is even more bull shit now people on the goverment dime and gets  their health care for free. If they dont go to the hospital  all year for simple problems (colds)  they will be given a  500 buck gift card at the end of the year.... So they dont pay for anything  and then given 500 bucks  

we would not have to tax the fat  cats if the  fucking who sit on their asses every day  doing nothing but  putting their hands out  got a job 

distribute it properly.   LOL    why dont you make your own company then and then  give  all your cash to others..  Why do you have a pc, why do you have a internet connection,  you could be using this money to give to someone else who does not have  the cash.. O i forgot  its  only  OTHERS   who should be forced to give  all of their money away  while you  keep yours 

 
Here in Seattle - they raise the minimum wage for restaurant workers to $15. They also gave $15 MW for people who work near the airport in Seattle too. There are good and bad on this. For people who have gov. assistance will stop because they make more money now. A way for gov. to cut into your taxes to help the poor.

 
Momentum Machines' Burger Robot:

heres-the-burger-flipping-robot-that-could-put-fast-food-workers-out-of-a-job.jpg


 
Stop giving employees government assistance. If an individual has to choose between working a shit job for shit wages with no government assistance, or not working with free government assistance, folks are going to go for the free money. This will cut out the bulk of low-wage employees, forcing employers to pay a higher rate to "compete" with the government.
 
slidecage said:
You will see the unemployment number in these states skyrocket within the next few years... One if a company is paying someone 8 bucks an hour and now is forced to pay 15 bucks an hour, but cant jack up their cost they are going to fire one out of every 2 people... Second people wont work cause it will say it takes their benifts away. People are going to complain their goverment checks are being taken away and not work. So sick of people thinking they are OWE 15 bucks and hour and FREE this and FREE that. we demand free health care , I pay 6,000 a year for my health care and cant get any help. i make 25,000 a year that is 1/4 of my paycheck going to health care. What is even more bull shit now people on the goverment dime and gets their health care for free. If they dont go to the hospital all year for simple problems (colds) they will be given a 500 buck gift card at the end of the year.... So they dont pay for anything and then given 500 bucks

we would not have to tax the fat cats if the fucking who sit on their asses every day doing nothing but putting their hands out got a job

distribute it properly. LOL why dont you make your own company then and then give all your cash to others.. Why do you have a pc, why do you have a internet connection, you could be using this money to give to someone else who does not have the cash.. O i forgot its only OTHERS who should be forced to give all of their money away while you keep yours
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I'm sorry, but this post is the definition of the lower class voting against their own interests. You highlight several areas where regulating healthcare and blocking tax loopholes would DIRECTLY improve your life...and then turn around and blame "the lazy" for your life sucking.

Yes. You pay 1/4 of your paycheck for health insurance. Do you think that's reasonable? Are you on any prescription medications? (ok, stop laughing, everybody) How much do they cost? Do you think it's a fair price?

You also attack your peers for not doing more or for having "an internet connection". And that's exactly what your political and corporate daddies have conditioned you to do. Think about the various fundraisers and TV telethons you see. They pander to Joe Schmoe to send in $25 or $50. Now, assuming the money actually goes to what it's intended for (and not an obscene percentage like March of Bullshit Dimes), sure...it's a good cause. But that $50 means a hell of a lot more to you or me than it does to say Donald Trump.

So, when you see these celebrities on TV asking common people to send in their dollars, it SHOULD be making you wonder what they contribute. Because by no means are they on the same scale. Let's play Fun With Math.

The average income in the US of a person 25 and up is roughly $32,000.

$50 is 0.00156% of their income.

Donald Trump throws ridiculous numbers out there, but Forbes estimates that he makes around $250 million a year.

$250,000,000 x 0.00156 = $390,000.

$390,000!!!

So, any time the average American contributes $50 to something...if Trump (and others like him) aren't kicking in $390,000...then they are contributing less to this country than we are. That is not political bias. That is not "entitlement". That is math.

By your own admission, you make less than that, slidecage. Let's play Fun With Math: Slidecage Edition (who else is excited? :bouncy:)

$50 / $24,000 = 0.00208%

$250,000,000 x 0.00208 = $520,000

So, there you go, slidecage. Any time you contribute $50 to something, if Donald Trump is pitching in less than $520,000...then he's mooching off YOUR work and riding on YOUR dollar. But hey...maybe Trump does contribute that much. Or...maybe he doesn't.

http://newsexaminer.net/politics/donald-trump-the-least-charitable-billionaire/

Again, this is not partisanship. This is not being lazy...or whatever other buzz word the snake oil salesmen stealing your money teaches you on TV. These are real numbers that most people don't think about because most of us can't even begin to fathom them.

 
slidecage said:
You will see the unemployment number in these states skyrocket within the next few years... One if a company is paying someone 8 bucks an hour and now is forced to pay 15 bucks an hour, but cant jack up their cost they are going to fire one out of every 2 people... Second people wont work cause it will say it takes their benifts away. People are going to complain their goverment checks are being taken away and not work. So sick of people thinking they are OWE 15 bucks and hour and FREE this and FREE that. we demand free health care , I pay 6,000 a year for my health care and cant get any help. i make 25,000 a year that is 1/4 of my paycheck going to health care. What is even more bull shit now people on the goverment dime and gets their health care for free. If they dont go to the hospital all year for simple problems (colds) they will be given a 500 buck gift card at the end of the year.... So they dont pay for anything and then given 500 bucks

we would not have to tax the fat cats if the fucking who sit on their asses every day doing nothing but putting their hands out got a job

distribute it properly. LOL why dont you make your own company then and then give all your cash to others.. Why do you have a pc, why do you have a internet connection, you could be using this money to give to someone else who does not have the cash.. O i forgot its only OTHERS who should be forced to give all of their money away while you keep yours
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Lol... well according to the republicans you are probably DUMB or not working hard enough, you should pick up another 4 more jobs, that way you can make 100K a year instead.

Quit bitching man.... LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
Another thing to think about,
I hope I am wrong, but another reason I personally think it will not work.

Companies, corporations, CEOs, shareholders, and the like are not going to allow anything to cut into their profit margins/their pay. So, they will either cut the staff and have 1 person do the work of 3 people, or raise the prices of their "products/services" to cover the cost of paying their employees more.

Those people who work for the people raising their prices will ultimately pay more for the products/servics that they are actually providing. Ensuring that the people who got more income from the new minimum wage could possibly end up having less money because of the new increased prices they are having to pay.
 
WonkyToad said:
Another thing to think about,
I hope I am wrong, but another reason I personally think it will not work.

Companies, corporations, CEOs, shareholders, and the like are not going to allow anything to cut into their profit margins/their pay. So, they will either cut the staff and have 1 person do the work of 3 people, or raise the prices of their "products/services" to cover the cost of paying their employees more.

Those people who work for the people raising their prices will ultimately pay more for the products/servics that they are actually providing. Ensuring that the people who got more income from the new minimum wage could possibly end up having less money because of the new increased prices they are having to pay.
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Honestly, THAT is the biggest problem. All these arguments are based on assumptions that people can be forced to do something. The concept of a higher minimum wage being effective. The belief that "people will get fired", "prices will go up". It's just a battle over how much profit a company makes and how big of a salary their top dogs get. If there was a legitimate way to regulate that and force businesses to "be fair", then these ideas would work.

The problem is that the Republican side's best argument usually amounts to "well, the businesses are just going to do whatever they want anyway...so don't make them mad." And that plan equally sucks. What is the answer? Who the hell knows. Become more self-sufficient maybe? Build things. Start a garden. Learn to sew. Teach yourself how to change your oil. Stop being so dependent on capitalism. I doubt we can ever really force them to do anything. But we can learn to not need them for every damn little thing.

 
WonkyToad said:
Another thing to think about,
I hope I am wrong, but another reason I personally think it will not work.

Companies, corporations, CEOs, shareholders, and the like are not going to allow anything to cut into their profit margins/their pay. So, they will either cut the staff and have 1 person do the work of 3 people, or raise the prices of their "products/services" to cover the cost of paying their employees more.

Those people who work for the people raising their prices will ultimately pay more for the products/servics that they are actually providing. Ensuring that the people who got more income from the new minimum wage could possibly end up having less money because of the new increased prices they are having to pay.
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It's certainly the one issue with raising the minimum wage is that you can't control a corporations unending greed for higher profits. However, we can hope that their insatiable thirst leads to their own downfall with decreased sales and they are replaced by companies like Costco that don't increase and feel compelled to maximize profit margins at the expense of their employees.

Will raising the minimum wage help this or just lead to inflation? I'm not sure but at least it's something stirring up the sediment in the system.
 
The probably with raising the minimum wage is that it's still..... the minimum wage.

All you're doing is raising the floor on prices.  Costs go up which in turn leads to higher prices.  It actually hurts the middle class as their wages are unaffected but have to eat the higher cost of goods and services.  And in the end, those making minimum wage are no better off or even worse off since there will be a push for more automation leading to fewer jobs.

Implementing a "maximum wage" would be a better way to narrow the wage gap.  Perhaps require that the maximum salary can be no higher than 30 times the lowest employee wage in the organization. 

 
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dopa345 said:
The probably with raising the minimum wage is that it's still..... the minimum wage.
All you're doing is raising the floor on prices. Costs go up which in turn leads to higher prices. It actually hurts the middle class as their wages are unaffected but have to eat the higher cost of goods and services. And in the end, those making minimum wage are no better off or even worse off since there will be a push for more automation leading to fewer jobs.

Implementing a "maximum wage" would be a better way to narrow the wage gap. Perhaps require that the maximum salary can be no higher than 30 times the lowest employee wage in the organization.
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With how much bootlicking, wealth worship there is in this country a maximum wage will never happen.

They'd find ways around it anyway. Such as, oh look, now our board of directors made up of CEOs from other companies now gets paid as much as the CEO of our company. The amount of greed at the top is insatiable and unsustainable.
 
dopa345 said:
The probably with raising the minimum wage is that it's still..... the minimum wage.
All you're doing is raising the floor on prices. Costs go up which in turn leads to higher prices. It actually hurts the middle class as their wages are unaffected but have to eat the higher cost of goods and services. And in the end, those making minimum wage are no better off or even worse off since there will be a push for more automation leading to fewer jobs.
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Exactly what I was trying to get across.
 
dopa345 said:
Implementing a "maximum wage" would be a better way to narrow the wage gap. Perhaps require that the maximum salary can be no higher than 30 times the lowest employee wage in the organization.
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A "salary cap" for the American economy. Now that's thinking outside the box. You'd probably be assassinated almost immediately for suggesting it, but it's a hell of an idea, haha. Ultimately, that just steers the conversation back toward higher taxes on the wealthy. But then people just claim that you're giving money to those who don't deserve it...you know, as opposed to maybe supporting our crumbling infrastructure better.

Why don't we take that money and use it to pay our state service workers better? Teachers, Police, Firefighters, EMTs, etc. Put more in their pocket and let them help build the economy back up. Use it on education so the next generation doesn't repeat the same mistakes their parents made. Use it on after school/daycare programs so single parents can work and don't see welfare as their only option. That's what you could do with extra tax revenue. It doesn't have to be about "giving lazy people free cell phones".

 
It's not nearly as preposterous or scandalous as conservatives want you to believe. For starters, 15 an hour isn't generalized - the standard of living is different in every state and in some it is a VAST difference. Didn't this 15 talk all start with the McDonalds crap in CA around a year ago? 15 an hour in California is like 9 or 10 bucks in most states haha. The entire story was California-based but as usual internet journalists and Facebook newswire idiots did what they do best and blew the story out of proportion.

Most places could afford this hike but unfortunately these companies would not let that happen without a fight and they have PLENTY of ways they can legally screw over their employees once they start getting that pay. They'll cut benefits, lessen hours, impose restrictions, anything they can do to keep their profits the same as they were if not better even with the wage increase. It's bullshit because they don't have to do those things and still make money but that is the epitome of corporate greed. It's something that would be nice to see happen but guaranteed not to ever occur especially since the party that favors the rich and protects the big businesses are the ones now in control of the senate again.

 
Navex said:
It's not nearly as preposterous or scandalous as conservatives want you to believe. For starters, 15 an hour isn't generalized - the standard of living is different in every state and in some it is a VAST difference. Didn't this 15 talk all start with the McDonalds crap in CA around a year ago? 15 an hour in California is like 9 or 10 bucks in most states haha. The entire story was California-based but as usual internet journalists and Facebook newswire idiots did what they do best and blew the story out of proportion.

Most places could afford this hike but unfortunately these companies would not let that happen without a fight and they have PLENTY of ways they can legally screw over their employees once they start getting that pay. They'll cut benefits, lessen hours, impose restrictions, anything they can do to keep their profits the same as they were if not better even with the wage increase. It's bullshit because they don't have to do those things and still make money but that is the epitome of corporate greed. It's something that would be nice to see happen but guaranteed not to ever occur especially since the party that favors the rich and protects the big businesses are the ones now in control of the senate again.
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Why shouldn't they? Their goal is profit maximization. Providing a "living" wage is not the goal of a corporation especially when the jobs were always intended to be filled by uneducated high school students. If people do not like that then they should go start their own companies or get better education. These companies do not owe you shit.

 
It's not even that... companies pay workers what the workers are actually worth based on productivity and the market in which the companies compete. Often companies actually pay above minimum wage just to attract enough workers. Drive around your city and see how fast food places and others offer different wages in different parts of town, usually higher wages in more affluent neighborhoods because that's what it takes to attract enough workers. If employers don't pay enough, then they don't get enough people because they'll work elsewhere... and if employer's pay too much then capital and investment dollars will flow to more profitable businesses.

 
mrsilkunderwear said:
Why shouldn't they? Their goal is profit maximization. Providing a "living" wage is not the goal of a corporation especially when the jobs were always intended to be filled by uneducated high school students. If people do not like that then they should go start their own companies or get better education. These companies do not owe you shit.
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Sure, but when the rest of our economy and job market are broken to such a degree, you end up with more educated people in those positions. Maybe not McDonalds specifically, but there are people with bachelors degrees working below their education level. Many people have even argued that a bachelors degree was "the new high school diploma" (even though it sure as hell doesn't cost the same as one) and that if you REALLY want a good job, you should get your masters.

I don't know, for me...at the end of the day, it seems like common sense to not let people with something to gain dictate their own rules. Humans cheat. It's in our nature. From a 5 year old cheating at a board game...to professional athletes taking steroids...to the rich using tax havens. If you don't impose regulations to force people to do the right thing, they're not going to do it (like you said...they want to make money).

It's just like the nonsense about getting rid of the EPA. What simpleton would believe that if that happened, things wouldn't be abused and taken advantage of to the highest degree? I don't even say that to condemn anybody. If there's not a rule against something, how can you blame somebody for doing it? But to act like regulations aren't needed because people/corporations will do the right thing is crazy. People who believe things like that are either naive to the repercussions or they stand to benefit from it...which takes us right back around to "people cheat".

 
TheN8torious said:
Sure, but when the rest of our economy and job market are broken to such a degree, you end up with more educated people in those positions. Maybe not McDonalds specifically, but there are people with bachelors degrees working below their education level. Many people have even argued that a bachelors degree was "the new high school diploma" (even though it sure as hell doesn't cost the same as one) and that if you REALLY want a good job, you should get your masters.

I don't know, for me...at the end of the day, it seems like common sense to not let people with something to gain dictate their own rules. Humans cheat. It's in our nature. From a 5 year old cheating at a board game...to professional athletes taking steroids...to the rich using tax havens. If you don't impose regulations to force people to do the right thing, they're not going to do it (like you said...they want to make money).

It's just like the nonsense about getting rid of the EPA. What simpleton would believe that if that happened, things wouldn't be abused and taken advantage of to the highest degree? I don't even say that to condemn anybody. If there's not a rule against something, how can you blame somebody for doing it? But to act like regulations aren't needed because people/corporations will do the right thing is crazy. People who believe things like that are either naive to the repercussions or they stand to benefit from it...which takes us right back around to "people cheat".
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No, its not crazy to get rid of regulations or the EPA. Regulations have been shown to be counter productive and instead abused by the very intended targets they are supposed to reign in. Like what happened when the book The Jungle was released, a novel about the meatpacking industry. People were outraged and laws were passed that killed off most of the competition. Other counter productive laws were just discussed in another thread where ex-felons could no longer vote after being released from prison. To me that is outrageous as every free individual should have a say in shaping their destiny.

Now onto the EPA, well it just happens to be one of the worst run agencies in the government which legalized pollution for the biggest corporations. We really do not need them. To say that things would be taken advantage of to the highest degree would mean a person is ignorant of history and understanding of individual rights. People always prospered when there was no excessive regulation and things have been improving on a constant scale. To remove the agency today would not lead to environmental crises as long as people understand their individual and property rights. So if a big company like Nestle decided to pollute lake Tahoe then they would be destroying a public good and most likely face clean up charges and more depending on the severity of the crime. In the end dont believe everything the government is doing is for the good of the consumer, it is a big and bureaucratic place filled with mostly self interest and deep pockets.

 
Another point people forget about why government regulations are not as important now is because of social media. You know there would be armies of people with nothing better to do, sitting around various businesses waiting to video some screw up so that the individuals could get notoriety. Most companies would police themselves for fear of being shamed, boycotted, etc.

 
dohdough said:
HAHAHAHA...you guys must be high as fuck. Pass some of that good shit my way, holmes!
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Seriously. Isn't that terrifying? There are people who actually believe that businesses don't get away with doing horrible shit. It happens now...WITH regulations. To think that it wouldn't get worse if we gave them free rein is asinine. But keep pedaling that agenda regardless of what common sense tells you.

cant-even-guy.jpg


 
soonersfan60 said:
Regulations only "stop" the companies that aren't in bed with the government...
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Annnd...that's justification to not have any? That is horrible, horrible logic. You can't expect to win every battle, but it doesn't mean you just stop fighting.

I'm guessing you don't think speed limits are needed either?
 
mrsilkunderwear said:
No, its not crazy to get rid of regulations or the EPA. Regulations have been shown to be counter productive and instead abused by the very intended targets they are supposed to reign in. Like what happened when the book The Jungle was released, a novel about the meatpacking industry. People were outraged and laws were passed that killed off most of the competition. Other counter productive laws were just discussed in another thread where ex-felons could no longer vote after being released from prison. To me that is outrageous as every free individual should have a say in shaping their destiny.

Now onto the EPA, well it just happens to be one of the worst run agencies in the government which legalized pollution for the biggest corporations. We really do not need them. To say that things would be taken advantage of to the highest degree would mean a person is ignorant of history and understanding of individual rights. People always prospered when there was no excessive regulation and things have been improving on a constant scale. To remove the agency today would not lead to environmental crises as long as people understand their individual and property rights. So if a big company like Nestle decided to pollute lake Tahoe then they would be destroying a public good and most likely face clean up charges and more depending on the severity of the crime. In the end dont believe everything the government is doing is for the good of the consumer, it is a big and bureaucratic place filled with mostly self interest and deep pockets.
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How fast one forgot about the deregulation of the financial industry leading to the sub prime crash !!!

 
soonersfan60 said:
Another point people forget about why government regulations are not as important now is because of social media. You know there would be armies of people with nothing better to do, sitting around various businesses waiting to video some screw up so that the individuals could get notoriety. Most companies would police themselves for fear of being shamed, boycotted, etc.
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Oh really...

Where did the OWS protesters go or those who were filming animals abuses = JAIL

Where did the corporate leaders who rob and bankrupted the economy go = HOME with a BIG Paycheck

Are some of you guys really that stupid or just pretending.... I hope the latter

 
TheN8torious said:
Annnd...that's justification to not have any? That is horrible, horrible logic. You can't expect to win every battle, but it doesn't mean you just stop fighting.

I'm guessing you don't think speed limits are needed either?
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I think what he is talking about is over-regulation. If regulations are to exist they have to be constitutional and have some sort of logic behind it. Clearly many laws and regulations today hurt the very recipients they are supposed to protect. Surely even the liberals could agree on that.

 
Finger_Shocker said:
If you want to force JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, or Mcdonalds corp to pay a janitor $15 I can support that because those companies generate huge profits that goes to their fat cats pockets.
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Soon as they have to start paying a mcdonalds employee 15 dollars an hour then youll see the big mac rise to 9 dollars.

Or you will see what I have already personally seen at a mcdonalds by me. The employees complained about not getting paid enough (even though mcdonalds was built on low wage jobs intended for kids to make extra money, or older folks to have something to keep them busy because afterall it isnt skilled labor, its making burgers and fries). So they got paid more and half of them got fired and the mcdonalds by me is now automated, 1 person is upfront with automated registers working the window and 2 in the back making the food. So now on a shift 3 people make money while 4 or 5 lost their jobs.

Then we have the whole fact that when people are forced to get paid more across the country the prices of everything will go up thus negating the wage increase.

or what about all the small business's that will have to shut down because they wont be able to pay employees without jacking up prices so high no one will want to shop there?

Nothing of this magnitude is cut and dry, there are repercussions and consequences.

 
Or...you can listen to somebody who actually understands business and has a remarkable track record.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyXG8pYZ054[/youtube]

 
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