Nintendo eShop Deals and Discussions

psunami

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Thanks to Frisky for all of the hard work that he put in for the previous deals threads (and continues to on this thread!)

Feel free to post here about the newest Nintendo eShop deals, My Nintendo rewards and discussions about the previously mentioned items.

Nintendo Sales and Deals page
 
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Nintendo posted details for each of the games getting free updates:
ARMS

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • Frame rate: Optimized for Nintendo Switch 2 for smoother movement (even when playing with 3 or more players**).
  • HDR support***.

Big Brain Academy: Brain vs. Brain

Update available: June 5, 2025

GameShare support:
  • Up to four people** can play in Party Mode.
  • Share locally or share online via GameChat****.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • HDR support***.
GameShare support:
  • Two people can play all of the courses.
  • Share locally or share online via GameChat****.

Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics

Update available: June 5, 2025

GameShare support:
  • Up to four people** can play 34 games.
  • Share locally or share online via GameChat****.

Game Builder Garage

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • Supports Joy-Con™ 2 mouse controls.

New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.

Pokémon Scarlet

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • Frame rate: Improved for smoother movement on Nintendo Switch 2.

Pokémon Violet

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • Frame rate: Improved for smoother movement on Nintendo Switch 2.

Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • Frame rate: Optimized for smoother movement on Nintendo Switch 2 (including Bowser's Fury).
  • HDR support*** (Bowser’s Fury only).
GameShare support:
  • Up to four people** can play Super Mario 3D World.
  • In Bowser's Fury, two people can play together, with one player controlling Mario and the other controlling Bowser Jr.
  • Share locally or share online via GameChat****.

Super Mario Odyssey

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • HDR support***.
GameShare support:
  • Two people can play together, with one player controlling Mario and the other controlling Cappy.
  • Share locally or share online via GameChat****.

The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • HDR support***.
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

Update available: June 5, 2025

Updates included:
  • Visuals: Optimized for the Nintendo Switch 2 display and high-resolution TVs for improved image quality.
  • HDR support***.
 
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No frame rate improvements on links awakening 🤯

Got excited by my Nintendo store shipment notification but it was only for the My Nintendo rewards. The gamecube controller will ship separately.
 
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No frame rate improvements on links awakening 🤯

Got excited by my Nintendo store shipment notification but it was only for the My Nintendo rewards. The gamecube controller will ship separately.
I thought the same thing. But I read online (take with a grain of salt) that links awakening and echos of wisdom actually had their fps unlocked which explained the dips. So theoretically this more powerful switch 2 could have those hit 60 consistently. Which is what I hope.
 
Friendly reminder to never buy a console based on a hope of future performance or potential games.

With how old and slow the original Switch is at this point, it's practically worth the price for me just to play Switch games in a way that runs better even if Nintendo didn't release any other games.

At $450, even if there is only a handful of new games that come for it that I want to play, that doesn't seem like a bad bargain in 2025. I mean shoot, there is worse things you could buy. Some people are buying Apple Vision Pro Headsets, Tesla Trucks, Designer Handbags, $300 jeans, and $500 Lego Sets… 😬
 
It's usually reliable to get one or 2 zelda titles at least each system. More if they do cross gen (which has been a pattern since twilight princess at least).

But it varies by gen how many titles Nintendo releases per ip. Plus this gen was abnormally long and given the bc we may get cross plat support between 1 and 2 for a while.
 
I'll probably get my money's worth out of the Switch 2 from a new iteration of Animal Crossing. The rest is gravy.

Honestly, that’s where I got my value on the original Switch. I put 100 hours into just moving my villagers houses I’m pretty sure. The other 300 hours was actually playing the game.

We already know we got Mario Kart, a new 3D Donkey Kong and Metroid Prime 4. If we get an Animal Crossing and a new Smash Bros that pretty much rounds out what I have most of my hours in on the original Switch.
 
Honestly, that’s where I got my value on the original Switch. I put 100 hours into just moving my villagers houses I’m pretty sure. The other 300 hours was actually playing the game.

We already know we got Mario Kart, a new 3D Donkey Kong and Metroid Prime 4. If we get an Animal Crossing and a new Smash Bros that pretty much rounds out what I have most of my hours in on the original Switch.

But the gamez r eighty dollars !!1!

ATE-EY
 
I might have been more open to buying the switch 2 early if for no other reason than better performances for existing games, but the refusal to accept anything other than the more expensive type of memory cards put a damper on that, I've already got a 1tb card completely full on my switch, and I've got no interest in playing the "download what you want to play when you are going to play it" game. The price of those memory cards will have to come down and the size will have to go up before I'll consider buying
 
Y'all know you can just wait to buy the system when those Nintendo heavy hitters are out, right?

The point of my statement isn't to not buy it, but buy it when it actually does (or confirmed it does) the things you want.

And the games aren't out yet, either. They could be not great, Nintendo isn't above putting out stinkers in their core franchises.

Consume.

(Oh, and claiming "but other things are a waste of money" isn't an argument...)
 
I might have been more open to buying the switch 2 early if for no other reason than better performances for existing games, but the refusal to accept anything other than the more expensive type of memory cards put a damper on that, I've already got a 1tb card completely full on my switch, and I've got no interest in playing the "download what you want to play when you are going to play it" game. The price of those memory cards will have to come down and the size will have to go up before I'll consider buying

I had this frustration when the Xbox Series X came out, I had an 8TB and a 4TB hard drive connected to my Xbox One X with every game I owned downloaded to them. Then I got my Xbox Series X and started playing on it and saw how fast the load times were and how limited the load screens were and soon I found myself buying an Xbox Series S for an additional console in another room to replace the Xbox One X completely. I packed up my Xbox One X because I couldn't even stand playing games on it anymore with how long it takes for things to load.

I assume this is why Nintendo is using the premium memory cards. Only time will tell but I would love a much more snappy and speedy version of the Switch like the transition from Xbox One and PS4 to Xbox Series and PS5.
 
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After the digital foundry video, I still just don't see the value in switch 2. It's overpriced in my opinion. According to recent reports though, this thing is really selling well so obviously the die hards will buy anything at any price. If Mario Kart sells and Nintendo switch 2 to sells gangbusters, obviously I'm wrong but this is definitely something I will wait to buy used for a price I feel it's worth or I'll just wait for some awesome Black Friday deal. I still think most people will not buy this thing at its current price.
 
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After the digital foundry video, I still just don't see the value in switch 2. It's overpriced in my opinion. According to recent reports though, this thing is really selling well so obviously the die hards will buy anything at any price. If Mario Kart sells a Nintendo switch 2 to sells gangbusters, obviously I'm wrong but this is definitely something I will wait to buy used for a price I feel it's worth or I'll just wait for some awesome Black Friday deal. I still think most people will not buy this thing at its current price.

I saw in a recent interview with Doug Bowser they almost raised the price of the console when they raised the accessories. He seemed committed to keeping the price at $450 at least through the Holidays but he did say that all the preorders are sold out but they hope to continue to have them available through the holidays for people that want them this year. It doesn't seem like the initial consoles are having any trouble selling, but only time will tell if this sells as good as Switch, DS and Wii or if this is more in line with Wii U, Gamecube and N64.

I never owned a Wii U but I did own a Gamecube and N64, even though those didn't sell well, I didn't see either of them as a "flop" of a console and don't regret having owned them.
 
Y'all know you can just wait to buy the system when those Nintendo heavy hitters are out, right?

The point of my statement isn't to not buy it, but buy it when it actually does (or confirmed it does) the things you want.

And the games aren't out yet, either. They could be not great, Nintendo isn't above putting out stinkers in their core franchises.

Consume.

(Oh, and claiming "but other things are a waste of money" isn't an argument...)

Again, with Nintendo I don't need to wait, I already know they're coming and enjoy multiple IP from them. If you're someone that's super discerning with your favorite IP in that they aren't more or less guaranteed to be Day 1 purchases for you, then sure, you do what's right for you.

I also said there's more than the heavyweights. I for example am into DK Banazna, so that's already one. Kirby Air Riders is another. That said, it's funny to talk about waiting when for the vast majority of people Mario Kart World is exactly just that, and it's coming at launch. Just because some in here are talking about wanting a few upgrades for a few Switch 1 games doesn't mean the Switch 2 isn't already an attractive device as is.

Obviously you're speaking from the CAG perspective of saving as much money as possible, and I can't ever hate on that. Kudos to those that truly are that patient enough to wait years to save some money. But with Nintendo, I already know what I'm in for. And things are much more complicated than previous gens due to tarriffs, with there being a non-zero chance that the Switch 2 will increase in price later on. Hell, we already know the Mario Kart bundle is temporary.
 
Again, with Nintendo I don't need to wait, I already know they're coming and enjoy multiple IP from them. If you're someone that's super discerning with your favorite IP in that they aren't more or less guaranteed to be Day 1 purchases for you, then sure, you do what's right for you.

I also said there's more than the heavyweights. I for example am into DK Banazna, so that's already one. Kirby Air Riders is another. That said, it's funny to talk about waiting when for the vast majority of people Mario Kart World is exactly just that, and it's coming at launch. Just because some in here are talking about wanting a few upgrades for a few Switch 1 games doesn't mean the Switch 2 isn't already an attractive device as is.

Obviously you're speaking from the CAG perspective of saving as much money as possible, and I can't ever hate on that. Kudos to those that truly are that patient enough to wait years to save some money. But with Nintendo, I already know what I'm in for. And things are much more complicated than previous gens due to tarriffs, with there being a non-zero chance that the Switch 2 will increase in price later on. Hell, we already know the Mario Kart bundle is temporary.
Early reports in DK is that it's shallow and not that great.

You're on CAG literally saying quality doesn't matter, you will but it sight unseen. You recognize that, so I hope you recognize that's nuts and illogical for any publisher, let alone Nintendo, who has squeezed out the lowest quality titles in decades for their biggest franchises (ex. Scarlet/Violet).

I'm all for Day One buys of stuff you like, but my Day One is the day thorough reviews hit versus when they're first able to be pre-ordered. In an age where physical carts are becoming worthless, there's no reason to pre-order, unless it's the rare case of monetary incentive.

As for hardware pricing and tariffs, if you're that worried, you probably shouldn't be buying a new video game system, IMO. Japan is somewhere at 10% minimum and 34% maximum. If those hit everything, then vidja should be the least of all our worries.

If you're buying before the collapse of the union... Well, I get it.
 
I would’ve waited on Switch 2 if I didn’t possibly luck out with $100 off the Mario kart bundle.

DK looks like a button masher and not super compelling to me. Even the lower MSRP compared to Mario kart seems to indicate it’s not as valuable.

Not a big risk preordering the console though. Demand shows you can easily get your money back.
 
Early reports in DK is that it's shallow and not that great.

Meh, we'll see come review time.

You're on CAG literally saying quality doesn't matter, you will but it sight unseen. You recognize that, so I hope you recognize that's nuts and illogical for any publisher, let alone Nintendo, who has squeezed out the lowest quality titles in decades for their biggest franchises (ex. Scarlet/Violet).

I mean I absolutely love Pokémon so yes, that is easily a franchise that would motivate me to buy a new console, I love that the Switch being a hybrid guarantees it's all in one place now as opposed to buying a separate handheld for it. Even following your rules, again I'd cave by the time ZA releases anyhow. But yea, definitely not a franchise where I'm part of the online hate for it, even for their more controversial titles. (Okay, I didn't care for Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl.) I still greatly enjoy the formula for better or worse, and Arceus in particular was a fun time. For SV, haven't gotten around to it due to backlog woes, but once again, the improvements the Switch 2 is providing would've officially made me cave regardless.

I'm all for Day One buys of stuff you like, but my Day One is the day thorough reviews hit versus when they're first able to be pre-ordered. In an age where physical carts are becoming worthless, there's no reason to pre-order, unless it's the rare case of monetary incentive.

I mean that's fair, it's not like I don't follow that rule in general. I'm just not going to pass on a whole new console purchase just because of that. Even in the case where Bananza or w/e doesn't review well, I'm not forced to buy it. The console is going to have plenty of immediate value just off my backlog alone. If I don't cop Bananza, then there's still Hyrule Warriors, Kirby, Pokémon, etc. this year alone. I'm hardly screwed.

As for hardware pricing and tariffs, if you're that worried, you probably shouldn't be buying a new video game system, IMO. Japan is somewhere at 10% minimum and 34% maximum. If those hit everything, then vidja should be the least of all our worries.

If you're buying before the collapse of the union... Well, I get it.

I mean, for my specific financial situation, you definitely don't have to worry about me. It's not a contest, but I wouldn't be surprised if I did a fantastic job compared to most when it came to paying off the Switch 2. I already had the store credit for it, I'm not paying any tax, etc.

It's just... on top of there being no real reason for me to wait to purchase it, obviously no one wants to spend more money than they have to. You see how Xbox just rose their prices, that Sony is also considering it. The writing is obviously on the wall there, it's just an additional incentive for me to get it out of the way.

A new Nintendo console is just simply one of the easiest purchases to justify due to their variety of evergreen IP. So yea, agree to disagree and all that.

DK looks like a button masher and not super compelling to me. Even the lower MSRP compared to Mario kart seems to indicate it’s not as valuable.

It's just a matter of what they think they can get away with. Mario Kart is their biggest seller. Stuff like Smash and Zelda also have that prestige. But that doesn't mean that their $70 games had no work put into them.
 
It's just a matter of what they think they can get away with. Mario Kart is their biggest seller. Stuff like Smash and Zelda also have that prestige. But that doesn't mean that their $70 games had no work put into them.
They say about the company that repackaged Wii U titles at a higher price.

Or $10 upgrades to Zelda for phone integration no one asked for and locking performance upgrades behind said paywall.

I'd be keen to get Switch 2 for BC upgrades, as well, but they're predominantly free on PS5 and PC except a nascent few (Days Gone is a real head scratcher). Nintendo had the chance to do something rad. Instead they did something bad.

Boo.
 
I would’ve waited on Switch 2 if I didn’t possibly luck out with $100 off the Mario kart bundle.

DK looks like a button masher and not super compelling to me. Even the lower MSRP compared to Mario kart seems to indicate it’s not as valuable.

Not a big risk preordering the console though. Demand shows you can easily get your money back.
Yeah I hate you for that lol. I would be all over Mario Kart bundle at $399.99. That's the price it should have been in the first place.
 
Lol, got excited for a minute since I got an email from Nintendo titled ‘ regarding Nintendo switch 2 purchase invitations from My Nintendo Store.’

No, it was not my invite. It was yeah, you are still in the queue. No idea when you can buy one.
 
Hey everyone... potentially free game time:

The Adventures of Poppy was free for me this morning -- and I don't know why. It looks like it should be $1.99, but it had a 100% discount for me. It's published by RedDeer.games, so perhaps it's free if you own one of their other titles.

You're correct. They've been doing owner discounts like this every week. I got Neko Bakery for free last month for owning Neko Bento. Poppe shows $1.99 for me so I don't know what triggers it this time.
They used to make up a graphic and advertise it on Facebook/Twitter, but not lately.
 
You're correct. They've been doing owner discounts like this every week. I got Neko Bakery for free last month for owning Neko Bento. Poppe shows $1.99 for me so I don't know what triggers it this time.
They used to make up a graphic and advertise it on Facebook/Twitter, but not lately.
I tried tracking these a year ago, but it's difficult to find them when it requires browsing by publisher and title on the Switch itself. Reddeer appears to flood the eshop with fake bundles ... which makes browsing 600+ titles a bit difficult.

If you see any more, do feel free to post them. I'll keep doing it as I see them.

(Reddeer has a few "real" games they've published, along with the all the junk, which makes this more difficult. Poppe isn't a BAD game, but it does feel sort of like indie-devs-first-platforming adventure...)
 
You're on CAG literally saying quality doesn't matter, you will but it sight unseen. You recognize that, so I hope you recognize that's nuts and illogical for any publisher, let alone Nintendo, who has squeezed out the lowest quality titles in decades for their biggest franchises (ex. Scarlet/Violet).
Of all the nonsense you have posted, this might be the most nonsensical.

Two of the best and most important Zelda titles of all time. Wonder was widely regarded as one of the best 2D Mario platformers is years and years. Metroid on switch was very highly regarded (if not a great seller).

Low quality of their biggest franchises? Hard to take anything you say as an unbiased opinion. If you don’t want it or you can’t afford it that’s fine. But when you spew insane comments like this you lose all credibility.
 
Lol, got excited for a minute since I got an email from Nintendo titled ‘ regarding Nintendo switch 2 purchase invitations from My Nintendo Store.’

No, it was not my invite. It was yeah, you are still in the queue. No idea when you can buy one.
I got one of these emails too. Very disappointing. I could do without updates like this.
 
For every finger pointing that I'm some sort of biased individual, its pretty obvious to see the three fingers pointing backwards.

If "wait for reviews" and "Pokemon Scarlet and Violet were poorly implemented rush jobs" are controversial takes, I would say those being unrealistic are some of you all. And if you expect me to cite every reference on an internet forum, all I say is you first. Sorry, I watch a ton of gaming news and content cause I actually have interest in the industry beyond the games themselves. To be clear Pokemon dwarfs all those other fan favorite franchises by a massive amount, so citing Zelda, Mario, or Metroid, the latter being largely a community favorite versus a massive system seller, just shows you're looking at it from a fan-only perspective.

The obvious Nintendo "hater" here with over 130 Switch games and two systems and three docks (not counting my other Nintendo handhelds and systems) is obviously here to spoil everyone's fun instead of being a moderating voice on cheapassgamer, a site dedicated to being, I dunno, relatively frugal with one's money.

Saying Nintendo is a bag of hammers for charging $10 for phone app integration in a Zelda game and they have history with their titles being unoptimized, cutting corners, or being bad isn't a controversial take in any setting unless you're just wanting to be argumentative or think Nintendo can do no wrong.

I am as much as troll as anyone else who's been posting here for over a decade. My stance hasn't really change on "hey, wait and see, don't buy things blindly." And "corporations will milk every last dollar out of you." And my level of "accomplishment," lol. What childish nonsense. Guess we're back on the playground.
 
I got the email as well about still being in the queue. i thought it was nice to get confirmation even though the registration page confirmed I applied.

The VRR thing doesn’t affect me. I don’t have a tv above 1080p/60. My FIL‘s tv is at least 4K hdr, but I think it’s also 60. So, as long as games are targeting crazy high frame rates… it should be good on anything lower where it’s not needing to be variable. The main thingis that games play well and are fun. Time will revealthat, though sometimes people miss the bus on providing feedback. Like Mario Golf Rush is damned fun. The online is fun too. the adventure mode is pretty decent. They’ve added a lot since it came out. But feedback? It’s still stuck on initial reactions at launch.
 
I got the email as well about still being in the queue. i thought it was nice to get confirmation even though the registration page confirmed I applied.

The VRR thing doesn’t affect me. I don’t have a tv above 1080p/60. My FIL‘s tv is at least 4K hdr, but I think it’s also 60. So, as long as games are targeting crazy high frame rates… it should be good on anything lower where it’s not needing to be variable. The main thingis that games play well and are fun. Time will revealthat, though sometimes people miss the bus on providing feedback. Like Mario Golf Rush is damned fun. The online is fun too. the adventure mode is pretty decent. They’ve added a lot since it came out. But feedback? It’s still stuck on initial reactions at launch.
VRR provides more benefits at lower frame rates than higher, as it helps to alleviate issues with frame timing and frame pacing that can be present from irregular frame generation.
 
I bought the WiiU late and saved quite a bit on the console and games. I was happy to have it, but it was very end of life when I bought it. In contrast I bought the Switch like 3 years into its extremely long life and I think I saved literally nothing buying in late. So ...what did I save, really?

For as relatively little as I care about the Switch 2 right now, I'm sure I will eventually. So, I registered for the Switch 2 "queue" yesterday. I doubt it will pan out, but why not, right?
 
Buying a Switch 2 used is my likely route. I had planned to buy it at Target and took advantage of those discounts on Target gift cards and I have those in-store only merchandise return cards also but with switch 2 being overpriced in my opinion, it's caused me to save that money for other purchases or just Switch 2 games.

I also thought Wii U was overpriced at launch and I waited 3 months and was able to get the black system used with Nintendo Land and two other games for $310. I will see how the switch 2 used price market goes as the months passed launch go on. I could be very wrong and most people will be fine with the price and the switch 2 doesn't get a price drop at all. Then I will have to reevaluate my position.
 
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For every finger pointing that I'm some sort of biased individual, its pretty obvious to see the three fingers pointing backwards.

If "wait for reviews" and "Pokemon Scarlet and Violet were poorly implemented rush jobs" are controversial takes, I would say those being unrealistic are some of you all. And if you expect me to cite every reference on an internet forum, all I say is you first. Sorry, I watch a ton of gaming news and content cause I actually have interest in the industry beyond the games themselves. To be clear Pokemon dwarfs all those other fan favorite franchises by a massive amount, so citing Zelda, Mario, or Metroid, the latter being largely a community favorite versus a massive system seller, just shows you're looking at it from a fan-only perspective.

The obvious Nintendo "hater" here with over 130 Switch games and two systems and three docks (not counting my other Nintendo handhelds and systems) is obviously here to spoil everyone's fun instead of being a moderating voice on cheapassgamer, a site dedicated to being, I dunno, relatively frugal with one's money.

Saying Nintendo is a bag of hammers for charging $10 for phone app integration in a Zelda game and they have history with their titles being unoptimized, cutting corners, or being bad isn't a controversial take in any setting unless you're just wanting to be argumentative or think Nintendo can do no wrong.

I am as much as troll as anyone else who's been posting here for over a decade. My stance hasn't really change on "hey, wait and see, don't buy things blindly." And "corporations will milk every last dollar out of you." And my level of "accomplishment," lol. What childish nonsense. Guess we're back on the playground.
Your problem isn't really the points you're making it's just that you don't know when to stop. You just seem to have to have the last word, which I guess it is the Internet so no surprise there. But you just keep hammering the same points over and over. We get it, we know how you feel. The launch of a new console is exciting for a lot of people, why continue to piss on their parade? Because it's honestly just starting to feel like you want to dissuade people from buying to help justify your own decision not to buy. I don't think you're a troll, but damn, read the room and just move on. And if you can't, seems like June 5th is going to be a painful day for some people, and it won't be for those buying the console.
 
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when you have to explain the value of (some) first-party Nintendo games to other people who simply don't get it.
like maybe best to stick your gold editions, f2p gacha, and nonstop DLC games. It's not instant enough for your Veruca Salt, Door Dash lifestyles. Of course you don't understand what Nintendo does best. I bet you 4 out of 5 people don't know why Nintendo is perpetually a top publisher, if not thee best in many years. (of course they don't; they'll link a Game Informer or magazine article of 'top publishers of the year'. EA is top because they sold the most McDonalds durr.)

oh god what did we ever do before permanently putting our credit card on file with these companies. bill me harder

oh no the eighty-dollar games I can only play for 200 hours, and own them. 🫢

negative Steam review; after 200hrs playtime I can safely say the game sucked. 👎
 
If "wait for reviews" and "Pokemon Scarlet and Violet were poorly implemented rush jobs" are controversial takes,
You're not new to the internet, and you know this is cherry picking.
I am supportive of the wait thing. There's few people who really need the 2025 Switch2 exclusives in 2025, like... really few. I'm one of them MKW isnt gonna be deprecated for a decade, there's no rush
 
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