10 year old arrested, charged with felony
- Thread starter bigpimpin24
- Start date
silentevil
CAGiversary!
She'll go through a diversion program for a. Hopefully it works or my tax money will be supporting her baby in 5 or 6 years.
whisky pete
CAGiversary!
is it 1958? where is george jefferson when you need him? "what you talkin' bout HONKIES?"
My wife taught in a very shitty neighborhood in the California Bay Area. Death threats from 1st graders were relatively common, as were school lockdowns with criminals on the loose in the neighborhood. Two kids had already been held back in class twice (by first grade!), and one of the death threat kids had stabbed his mom's boyfriend and brought a knife or some sharp instrument to school once that year.
And so doh has something to rant about, the classroom makeup was about 50% black, 25% hispanic, 10% white, 10% East Indian, 5% other (asian, islander, native american).
These severe behavioral issue kids were usually at the bottom academically, had zero parent involvement, and in a couple of instances, kids were playing in their front yard close to the school, on a school day, but didn't ever show up. The parents needed to be educated, but no matter what resources were made available to them, overwhelmingly they did nothing, and didn't care.
When a child thinks it's OK to threaten to kill a teacher and their family, or assault an adult as part of a temper tantrum, the parent has failed. Too many parents are failing these days, and people are criticized when that failure is discussed.
For those (OK, for the person) that will blame the system, explain to me how any system makes parents useless, uninvolved in their kid's lives, and doesn't discourage having more children than they can parent. My family is full of educators, both early ed and HS. How is a 6-8 year old conditioned to be this violent, this disrespectful, and how do the parents allow this all to occur? It's not a system, it's a complete lack of personal control. These parents are literally creating the violent criminals of tomorrow.
And so doh has something to rant about, the classroom makeup was about 50% black, 25% hispanic, 10% white, 10% East Indian, 5% other (asian, islander, native american).
These severe behavioral issue kids were usually at the bottom academically, had zero parent involvement, and in a couple of instances, kids were playing in their front yard close to the school, on a school day, but didn't ever show up. The parents needed to be educated, but no matter what resources were made available to them, overwhelmingly they did nothing, and didn't care.
When a child thinks it's OK to threaten to kill a teacher and their family, or assault an adult as part of a temper tantrum, the parent has failed. Too many parents are failing these days, and people are criticized when that failure is discussed.
For those (OK, for the person) that will blame the system, explain to me how any system makes parents useless, uninvolved in their kid's lives, and doesn't discourage having more children than they can parent. My family is full of educators, both early ed and HS. How is a 6-8 year old conditioned to be this violent, this disrespectful, and how do the parents allow this all to occur? It's not a system, it's a complete lack of personal control. These parents are literally creating the violent criminals of tomorrow.
[quote name='ZForce915']Get her put away early, she was going there anyway.[/QUOTE]
Haha, sarcasm, nyuk nyuk, let's read on...
[quote name='GUNNM']racial sterotypes just sometimes are legit[/QUOTE]
Har har I hope this is also a joke
[quote name='lilboo']Sighs. Somehow, someway.. someone will claim that this girl is the victim -_-[/QUOTE]
Wait... wait... is this serious?
[quote name='silentevil']She'll go through a diversion program for a. Hopefully it works or my tax money will be supporting her baby in 5 or 6 years.[/QUOTE]
Uh...
[quote name='lilboo']and dont you DARE complain about it!!!
#[/QUOTE]
Okay.
So. Racism, then.
Haha, sarcasm, nyuk nyuk, let's read on...
[quote name='GUNNM']racial sterotypes just sometimes are legit[/QUOTE]
Har har I hope this is also a joke
[quote name='lilboo']Sighs. Somehow, someway.. someone will claim that this girl is the victim -_-[/QUOTE]
Wait... wait... is this serious?
[quote name='silentevil']She'll go through a diversion program for a. Hopefully it works or my tax money will be supporting her baby in 5 or 6 years.[/QUOTE]
Uh...
[quote name='lilboo']and dont you DARE complain about it!!!
#[/QUOTE]Okay.
So. Racism, then.
[quote name='berzirk']My wife taught in a very shitty neighborhood in the California Bay Area. Death threats from 1st graders were relatively common, as were school lockdowns with criminals on the loose in the neighborhood. Two kids had already been held back in class twice (by first grade!), and one of the death threat kids had stabbed his mom's boyfriend and brought a knife or some sharp instrument to school once that year.
And so doh has something to rant about, the classroom makeup was about 50% black, 25% hispanic, 10% white, 10% East Indian, 5% other (asian, islander, native american).
These severe behavioral issue kids were usually at the bottom academically, had zero parent involvement, and in a couple of instances, kids were playing in their front yard close to the school, on a school day, but didn't ever show up. The parents needed to be educated, but no matter what resources were made available to them, overwhelmingly they did nothing, and didn't care.
When a child thinks it's OK to threaten to kill a teacher and their family, or assault an adult as part of a temper tantrum, the parent has failed. Too many parents are failing these days, and people are criticized when that failure is discussed.
For those (OK, for the person) that will blame the system, explain to me how any system makes parents useless, uninvolved in their kid's lives, and doesn't discourage having more children than they can parent. My family is full of educators, both early ed and HS. How is a 6-8 year old conditioned to be this violent, this disrespectful, and how do the parents allow this all to occur? It's not a system, it's a complete lack of personal control. These parents are literally creating the violent criminals of tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
When people are making racist comments referring to racist stereotypes, I'm well within the bounds of reason when I call them out for being racist. I'm not the one throwing out the race card because others already did.
And since you're such a smart
ing guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow."
For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.
And so doh has something to rant about, the classroom makeup was about 50% black, 25% hispanic, 10% white, 10% East Indian, 5% other (asian, islander, native american).
These severe behavioral issue kids were usually at the bottom academically, had zero parent involvement, and in a couple of instances, kids were playing in their front yard close to the school, on a school day, but didn't ever show up. The parents needed to be educated, but no matter what resources were made available to them, overwhelmingly they did nothing, and didn't care.
When a child thinks it's OK to threaten to kill a teacher and their family, or assault an adult as part of a temper tantrum, the parent has failed. Too many parents are failing these days, and people are criticized when that failure is discussed.
For those (OK, for the person) that will blame the system, explain to me how any system makes parents useless, uninvolved in their kid's lives, and doesn't discourage having more children than they can parent. My family is full of educators, both early ed and HS. How is a 6-8 year old conditioned to be this violent, this disrespectful, and how do the parents allow this all to occur? It's not a system, it's a complete lack of personal control. These parents are literally creating the violent criminals of tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
When people are making racist comments referring to racist stereotypes, I'm well within the bounds of reason when I call them out for being racist. I'm not the one throwing out the race card because others already did.
And since you're such a smart
ing guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow." For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.
[quote name='dohdough']When people are making racist comments referring to racist stereotypes, I'm well within the bounds of reason when I call them out for being racist. I'm not the one throwing out the race card because others already did.
And since you're such a smarting guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow."
For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.[/QUOTE]
Haa haa. I love it when you bring previous thread baggage into a new thread to make a personal attack. Charming, and strengthens your position. As a sidenote, a couple of weeks ago a homeless guy actually did stab a man about 5 miles from the park I was at. The victim was mouthing off after the homeless dude was screaming obscenities at him, but it was entertaining, considering you guys knew so much more about the situation than I did, and mocked my concern for my kid's safety. The system has taught you well.
Was the welfare queen comment directed to me? I didn't make any mention of government assistance beyond how I wish negligent parents would take advantage of free programs to help them be better parents. Maybe it was directed to someone else.
And perhaps I was unclear, I was speaking about parenting failure with respect to the school my wife taught at, and some of her friends still teach at. When an elementary school child is threatening to kill people, and is in fact assaulting teachers, it's more often than not because the parents are negligent. I made this wacky observation based on first hand knowledge from several teachers in different districts, that elementary age kids bringing weapons to school, and threatening and assaulting teachers is a growing problem. Sorry if I didn't frame it as the fault of the system. I shall do better in the future.
Regarding this girl specifically, I would think any 3rd grader who allegedly issued a death threat, and allegedly hit her teacher, has allegedly bad parent(s). She could've been French-Canadian, her ethnicity in this meant nothing (to me at least, others made some pretty bigoted, ignorant comments).
This is really the problem that I have with most of your posts. It seems like you look for a systemic scapegoat first, rather than give people the benefit of the doubt of just being bad apples or assholes.
I classify people based on actions, not ethnicity. They might be a black asshole, or a white asshole. I only care that they're an asshole. It seems like a disservice to their respective ethnic groups to make them an ambassador or example of that group, for good or for bad.
Apparently your fancy education told you otherwise. My in-state public university schooling was about as elite as you can get. Damn system at work again.
And since you're such a smart
ing guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow." For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.[/QUOTE]
Haa haa. I love it when you bring previous thread baggage into a new thread to make a personal attack. Charming, and strengthens your position. As a sidenote, a couple of weeks ago a homeless guy actually did stab a man about 5 miles from the park I was at. The victim was mouthing off after the homeless dude was screaming obscenities at him, but it was entertaining, considering you guys knew so much more about the situation than I did, and mocked my concern for my kid's safety. The system has taught you well.
Was the welfare queen comment directed to me? I didn't make any mention of government assistance beyond how I wish negligent parents would take advantage of free programs to help them be better parents. Maybe it was directed to someone else.
And perhaps I was unclear, I was speaking about parenting failure with respect to the school my wife taught at, and some of her friends still teach at. When an elementary school child is threatening to kill people, and is in fact assaulting teachers, it's more often than not because the parents are negligent. I made this wacky observation based on first hand knowledge from several teachers in different districts, that elementary age kids bringing weapons to school, and threatening and assaulting teachers is a growing problem. Sorry if I didn't frame it as the fault of the system. I shall do better in the future.
Regarding this girl specifically, I would think any 3rd grader who allegedly issued a death threat, and allegedly hit her teacher, has allegedly bad parent(s). She could've been French-Canadian, her ethnicity in this meant nothing (to me at least, others made some pretty bigoted, ignorant comments).
This is really the problem that I have with most of your posts. It seems like you look for a systemic scapegoat first, rather than give people the benefit of the doubt of just being bad apples or assholes.
I classify people based on actions, not ethnicity. They might be a black asshole, or a white asshole. I only care that they're an asshole. It seems like a disservice to their respective ethnic groups to make them an ambassador or example of that group, for good or for bad.
Apparently your fancy education told you otherwise. My in-state public university schooling was about as elite as you can get. Damn system at work again.
humancondition
CAGiversary!
[quote name='dohdough']When people are making racist comments referring to racist stereotypes, I'm well within the bounds of reason when I call them out for being racist. I'm not the one throwing out the race card because others already did.
And since you're such a smarting guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow."
For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.[/QUOTE]
Chill out, he didn't bring up welfare or racial stereotypes. Learn to read between the lines (and in some points in his post...on the lines). He's merely talking about the lack of parenting. Going to personal attacks just made you look childish. Its not race its lack of parenting and situations that go beyond what we know (i.e. possible child abuse/neglect or a horrible living environment and/or household that causes kids to lash out in school)
And since you're such a smart
ing guy that likes to pack heat in a lily white park because you're afraid some homeless guy will kill your family, how about you tell me how the girl's parents are "literally creating the the violent criminals of tomorrow." For someone that professed to be genetically predisposed to education, you sure as hell couldn't be assed enough into understanding that indivuals don't mean shit in statistical analysis. Obviously that fancy education of yours isn't doing squat for you.
edit: Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.[/QUOTE]
Chill out, he didn't bring up welfare or racial stereotypes. Learn to read between the lines (and in some points in his post...on the lines). He's merely talking about the lack of parenting. Going to personal attacks just made you look childish. Its not race its lack of parenting and situations that go beyond what we know (i.e. possible child abuse/neglect or a horrible living environment and/or household that causes kids to lash out in school)
[quote name='humancondition']Chill out, he didn't bring up welfare or racial stereotypes. Learn to read between the lines (and in some points in his post...on the lines). He's merely talking about the lack of parenting. Going to personal attacks just made you look childish. Its not race its lack of parenting and situations that go beyond what we know (i.e. possible child abuse/neglect or a horrible living environment and/or household that causes kids to lash out in school)[/QUOTE]
I am reading between the lines and I'm not the only that recognizes the racism in this thread.
Black kids are punished more severely than white kids in school for similar offenses. This is not conjecture or rare, but common occurances.
The school system that berzirk is talking about is probably an economically depressed area with little or no socio-economic mobility for a vast majority of the population. The real question is how you can expect an environment like that to produce productive adults when it's painfully obvious that the city, county, state, and country doesn't really care to? We're not talkig about one or two generations; we're talking multiple generations and several decades of deliberate socio-economic sabotage.
The highest level of services in berzirk's example probably wouldn't even rate as the worst level of services in a more well to do area. THAT is not a parental problem, but a systemic one that doesn't distribute resourses more equitably.
I am reading between the lines and I'm not the only that recognizes the racism in this thread.
Black kids are punished more severely than white kids in school for similar offenses. This is not conjecture or rare, but common occurances.
The school system that berzirk is talking about is probably an economically depressed area with little or no socio-economic mobility for a vast majority of the population. The real question is how you can expect an environment like that to produce productive adults when it's painfully obvious that the city, county, state, and country doesn't really care to? We're not talkig about one or two generations; we're talking multiple generations and several decades of deliberate socio-economic sabotage.
The highest level of services in berzirk's example probably wouldn't even rate as the worst level of services in a more well to do area. THAT is not a parental problem, but a systemic one that doesn't distribute resourses more equitably.
"The highest level of services in berzirk's example probably wouldn't even rate as the worst level of services in a more well to do area. THAT is not a parental problem, but a systemic one that doesn't distribute resourses more equitably."
Really? What sort of parent services and education is there for parents in affluent neighborhoods over poorer neighborhoods? If it's a social service, if anything, there would be more available to the poorer areas. The Headstart preschool program is actually a great example of that. Preschool is expensive as hell, I'm finding out. Actually another thought came to mind. The government is pumping more money and incentives into those poor schools. Teachers get student loans paid for them if they agree to teach there, often meals are heavily discounted or free. They provide free after-school supervision not offered to other groups. The services are there.
I think it's also assumed that if someone comes from a middle class or higher family, they don't need as much help with their children, so the resources and time and attention that a teacher may spend with a lower socio-economic classroom could be higher than if there's a bunch of children of doctors and lawyers.
So, if I'm understanding your position on this one, correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that parental problems aren't the fault of the parents, it's the fault of where they live. Is that a fair summary? If so, then why do some achieve? It sounds like it should be impossible under your doom and gloom vision. I'd like to see people battle the lower expectations parents seem to have in the poor neighborhoods, the lack of involvement in the student's learning (what system prevents a parent from sitting down with their kid to help them read?), and what constitutes acceptable behavior. Surely many of these kids are seeing more violence in their neighborhoods than Chez Whitey's suburb, but why shouldn't a parent from both neighborhoods educate their child on the appropriate use of violence, or explain why what they see is wrong?
The "system" doesn't prevent parents from giving a shit. In my experience, parents don't care. THAT is the #1 reason the kid's fail, and sadly, it appears that it's happening more in poor schools, which does perpetuate a lack of focus and prestige placed on education in those communities.
Really? What sort of parent services and education is there for parents in affluent neighborhoods over poorer neighborhoods? If it's a social service, if anything, there would be more available to the poorer areas. The Headstart preschool program is actually a great example of that. Preschool is expensive as hell, I'm finding out. Actually another thought came to mind. The government is pumping more money and incentives into those poor schools. Teachers get student loans paid for them if they agree to teach there, often meals are heavily discounted or free. They provide free after-school supervision not offered to other groups. The services are there.
I think it's also assumed that if someone comes from a middle class or higher family, they don't need as much help with their children, so the resources and time and attention that a teacher may spend with a lower socio-economic classroom could be higher than if there's a bunch of children of doctors and lawyers.
So, if I'm understanding your position on this one, correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying that parental problems aren't the fault of the parents, it's the fault of where they live. Is that a fair summary? If so, then why do some achieve? It sounds like it should be impossible under your doom and gloom vision. I'd like to see people battle the lower expectations parents seem to have in the poor neighborhoods, the lack of involvement in the student's learning (what system prevents a parent from sitting down with their kid to help them read?), and what constitutes acceptable behavior. Surely many of these kids are seeing more violence in their neighborhoods than Chez Whitey's suburb, but why shouldn't a parent from both neighborhoods educate their child on the appropriate use of violence, or explain why what they see is wrong?
The "system" doesn't prevent parents from giving a shit. In my experience, parents don't care. THAT is the #1 reason the kid's fail, and sadly, it appears that it's happening more in poor schools, which does perpetuate a lack of focus and prestige placed on education in those communities.
[quote name='berzirk']"The highest level of services in berzirk's example probably wouldn't even rate as the worst level of services in a more well to do area. THAT is not a parental problem, but a systemic one that doesn't distribute resourses more equitably."
Really? What sort of parent services and education is there for parents in affluent neighborhoods over poorer neighborhoods? If it's a social service, if anything, there would be more available to the poorer areas. The Headstart preschool program is actually a great example of that. Preschool is expensive as hell, I'm finding out.[/quote]
Economically depressed areas require subsidation, whereas more affluent areas do not or require much less. And even then, the best pre-schools in those areas don't even come close to the worst pre-schools in affluent areas in terms of staffing, resources, and facilities.
By implying that being poor perpetuates a culture of anti-intellectualism and anti-scholastics, you're only begging the question of HOW being poor creates an environment for that sentiment to develop.
Really? What sort of parent services and education is there for parents in affluent neighborhoods over poorer neighborhoods? If it's a social service, if anything, there would be more available to the poorer areas. The Headstart preschool program is actually a great example of that. Preschool is expensive as hell, I'm finding out.[/quote]
Economically depressed areas require subsidation, whereas more affluent areas do not or require much less. And even then, the best pre-schools in those areas don't even come close to the worst pre-schools in affluent areas in terms of staffing, resources, and facilities.
I'm well aware of teaching programs, but pumping money into schools isn't going to magically change the environment/neighborhood the school is in. If perchance the school actually starts excelling, that's when gentrification begins and displaces the population it was meant to help to begin with.
It might be assumed, but I would argue that differing levels of resources require different types of attention. Having a math, science, and/or debate team is different from remedial math and english classes.
Some people succeeding does not mean all can or will. Not everyone can be Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, or Richard Branson. Exceptions are not the rule. That's why they're called exceptions.
Why do parents not care? Saying that parents not caring is the answer to X is meaningless.
By implying that being poor perpetuates a culture of anti-intellectualism and anti-scholastics, you're only begging the question of HOW being poor creates an environment for that sentiment to develop.
You'd have to look high and hard for the social services in Beverly Hills.
In East St. Louis they literally have giant signs telling you where to obtain social services. In Los Angeles they have signs in multiple languages.
I'm not saying the system doesn't unfairly benefit the wealthy, but ground-level social services (meaning, not corporate/company welfare) aren't even a consideration for those well off. You can't even get a Pell Grant if your parents make bank, even if you live on your own and are super-poor.
In East St. Louis they literally have giant signs telling you where to obtain social services. In Los Angeles they have signs in multiple languages.
I'm not saying the system doesn't unfairly benefit the wealthy, but ground-level social services (meaning, not corporate/company welfare) aren't even a consideration for those well off. You can't even get a Pell Grant if your parents make bank, even if you live on your own and are super-poor.
icp_00_111
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 76 (100%)
I kinda agree with both the fellows arguing, on one side, I believe that your surroundings shape you heavily because that is what you see all the time, which is what one of the gentleman is trying to explain I think. If that is all you see all the time you believe that that is what you should do or have to do. On the other hand a strong parental structure and value system can help with that problem ALOT, but then you go back to it being that way for such a long time that the parents alot of times were raised the same way so they don't really know how to be the leader in there childs life like they should. To be honest it is quite a dilemma that I have no F'n clue how you can fix. It is a vicious circle.
[quote name='dohdough']Economically depressed areas require subsidation, whereas more affluent areas do not or require much less. And even then, the best pre-schools in those areas don't even come close to the worst pre-schools in affluent areas in terms of staffing, resources, and facilities.[/QUOTE]
Don't know enough about preschools in poor districts and how social services aid them, so I don't have a strong opinion on it.
But we can agree that it's better than doing nothing, right? There is a system in place which is attempting to help these folks, and while it may be misguided or the wrong kind of help, there are things being done with the goal to assist. It also seems ludicrous to say that because a poor neighborhood's 5th graders are graduating with a 7th grade reading level, they will start gentrifying neighborhoods. That's at an economic level, not scholastic.
Fully agree. This along with better tech resources for the poorer neighborhoods will give these kids a better math, science, and technical background, which is crucial for success in today's world.
And some rich kids piss away their savings on meth, and end up homeless and crazy. Of course there are exceptions, but both scenarios require a level of personal action to initiate them.
I think there is an absolutely horrible cultural shift that has really come about in the last 20 years or so that is effecting more black people than probably any other race. It's a culture where education is not respected, those who pursue it are mocked, or considered sell outs. Money is being spent in the home on bullshit like jewelry and apparel when the electricity is about to be cut off. Parents don't encourage their kids to pursue careers like medicine, teaching, science.
It wasn't always like this. During, before, and for some time after the Civil Rights movement, black people were proud of who they were, and were fighting for their due rights. If they had a little bit of money, they were proud of what they had, and family played a bigger role. Single parents, and young parents that don't know how to be mothers or fathers are ripping that community apart. Kids need to be taught and encouraged to aspire for better things, academically, career-wise, as sons daughters, and future parents.
Long rant, but in summary, it makes my heart break to see the turn that the black community is taking, after being one of the most noble, family-oriented, proud cultures in America, and ESPECIALLY when considering the conditions in which many of their ancestors came to be here.
Don't know enough about preschools in poor districts and how social services aid them, so I don't have a strong opinion on it.
But we can agree that it's better than doing nothing, right? There is a system in place which is attempting to help these folks, and while it may be misguided or the wrong kind of help, there are things being done with the goal to assist. It also seems ludicrous to say that because a poor neighborhood's 5th graders are graduating with a 7th grade reading level, they will start gentrifying neighborhoods. That's at an economic level, not scholastic.
Fully agree. This along with better tech resources for the poorer neighborhoods will give these kids a better math, science, and technical background, which is crucial for success in today's world.
And some rich kids piss away their savings on meth, and end up homeless and crazy. Of course there are exceptions, but both scenarios require a level of personal action to initiate them.
I think there is an absolutely horrible cultural shift that has really come about in the last 20 years or so that is effecting more black people than probably any other race. It's a culture where education is not respected, those who pursue it are mocked, or considered sell outs. Money is being spent in the home on bullshit like jewelry and apparel when the electricity is about to be cut off. Parents don't encourage their kids to pursue careers like medicine, teaching, science.
It wasn't always like this. During, before, and for some time after the Civil Rights movement, black people were proud of who they were, and were fighting for their due rights. If they had a little bit of money, they were proud of what they had, and family played a bigger role. Single parents, and young parents that don't know how to be mothers or fathers are ripping that community apart. Kids need to be taught and encouraged to aspire for better things, academically, career-wise, as sons daughters, and future parents.
Long rant, but in summary, it makes my heart break to see the turn that the black community is taking, after being one of the most noble, family-oriented, proud cultures in America, and ESPECIALLY when considering the conditions in which many of their ancestors came to be here.
Trancendental
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 4 (100%)
[quote name='berzirk']And some rich kids piss away their savings on meth, and end up homeless and crazy. Of course there are exceptions, but both scenarios require a level of personal action to initiate them.
...
It wasn't always like this. During, before, and for some time after the Civil Rights movement, black people were proud of who they were, and were fighting for their due rights. If they had a little bit of money, they were proud of what they had, and family played a bigger role. Single parents, and young parents that don't know how to be mothers or fathers are ripping that community apart. Kids need to be taught and encouraged to aspire for better things, academically, career-wise, as sons daughters, and future parents.
Long rant, but in summary, it makes my heart break to see the turn that the black community is taking, after being one of the most noble, family-oriented, proud cultures in America, and ESPECIALLY when considering the conditions in which many of their ancestors came to be here.[/QUOTE]
Things were bouncing back but the momentum was stopped in it's tracks during the late-60s/70s with it's societal and cultural upheaval (not to mention the drugs).
As for family values, it's not like white people are all that much better, they just have more money to throw at their problems. there's no better example then Palin, she's the poster child of the religious right but somehow her pro-abstinence teenage daughter got knocked up by a total deadbeat. Difference is, by charging big speaking fees to morons and bigots, Palin can easily afford to add one to the brood.
...
It wasn't always like this. During, before, and for some time after the Civil Rights movement, black people were proud of who they were, and were fighting for their due rights. If they had a little bit of money, they were proud of what they had, and family played a bigger role. Single parents, and young parents that don't know how to be mothers or fathers are ripping that community apart. Kids need to be taught and encouraged to aspire for better things, academically, career-wise, as sons daughters, and future parents.
Long rant, but in summary, it makes my heart break to see the turn that the black community is taking, after being one of the most noble, family-oriented, proud cultures in America, and ESPECIALLY when considering the conditions in which many of their ancestors came to be here.[/QUOTE]
Things were bouncing back but the momentum was stopped in it's tracks during the late-60s/70s with it's societal and cultural upheaval (not to mention the drugs).
As for family values, it's not like white people are all that much better, they just have more money to throw at their problems.
there's no better example then Palin, she's the poster child of the religious right but somehow her pro-abstinence teenage daughter got knocked up by a total deadbeat. Difference is, by charging big speaking fees to morons and bigots, Palin can easily afford to add one to the brood.
[quote name='dohdough'] Oh, and welfare queens don't exist, so stop using that racist example.[/QUOTE]
If they don't exist any more, its only because of welfare reform laws. When I was a kid growing up in Flint, Michigan, I saw welfare queens every day. Do you have "evidence" to refute my personal, first-hand experiences?
If they don't exist any more, its only because of welfare reform laws. When I was a kid growing up in Flint, Michigan, I saw welfare queens every day. Do you have "evidence" to refute my personal, first-hand experiences?
[quote name='Machine']If they don't exist any more, its only because of welfare reform laws. When I was a kid growing up in Flint, Michigan, I saw welfare queens every day. Do you have "evidence" to refute my personal, first-hand experiences?[/QUOTE]
I see welfare queens on tv all the time, but I bet we're not talking about the same people.
Your investment in this racial stereotype reveals your ignorance on the matter, so why don't you learn about the origin of this myth before try to blast someone with your anecdotes about living in Flint.
I bet the next example you're going to throw at me is someone on food stamps buying filet mignon and lobster.
Also, they never existed before welfare reform either.
And my "evidence" is from data collected by various federal surveys and academic studies.
I see welfare queens on tv all the time, but I bet we're not talking about the same people.
Your investment in this racial stereotype reveals your ignorance on the matter, so why don't you learn about the origin of this myth before try to blast someone with your anecdotes about living in Flint.
I bet the next example you're going to throw at me is someone on food stamps buying filet mignon and lobster.
Also, they never existed before welfare reform either.
And my "evidence" is from data collected by various federal surveys and academic studies.
[quote name='dohdough']I see welfare queens on tv all the time, but I bet we're not talking about the same people.
Your investment in this racial stereotype reveals your ignorance on the matter, so why don't you learn about the origin of this myth before try to blast someone with your anecdotes about living in Flint.
I bet the next example you're going to throw at me is someone on food stamps buying filet mignon and lobster.
Also, they never existed before welfare reform either.
And my "evidence" is from data collected by various federal surveys and academic studies.[/QUOTE]
Umm.. when I lived in Philly and I was 16 years old, I was a cashier for a supermarket for about a little over a year. I've seen MANY people buy "filet mignons and lobsters" (and everything else) when pulling out the access card. But I suppose I never really worked there, and this was just a dream when I was in that coma. I also am making up that many (MANY, not ALL) of the people who would pull out the access card seemed to dress nicer than a lot of people who didn't pull out the card. I know, I know. Darn that coma.
Your investment in this racial stereotype reveals your ignorance on the matter, so why don't you learn about the origin of this myth before try to blast someone with your anecdotes about living in Flint.
I bet the next example you're going to throw at me is someone on food stamps buying filet mignon and lobster.
Also, they never existed before welfare reform either.
And my "evidence" is from data collected by various federal surveys and academic studies.[/QUOTE]
Umm.. when I lived in Philly and I was 16 years old, I was a cashier for a supermarket for about a little over a year. I've seen MANY people buy "filet mignons and lobsters" (and everything else) when pulling out the access card. But I suppose I never really worked there, and this was just a dream when I was in that coma. I also am making up that many (MANY, not ALL) of the people who would pull out the access card seemed to dress nicer than a lot of people who didn't pull out the card. I know, I know. Darn that coma.
[quote name='lilboo']Sighs. Somehow, someway.. someone will claim that this girl is the victim -_-[/QUOTE]
they did take HER candy...im sure someone will say the teacher started it
they need to start slapping kids around like they did when we were in school. but now that is call abuse.. and you wonder why the children are out of hand today
they did take HER candy...im sure someone will say the teacher started it
they need to start slapping kids around like they did when we were in school. but now that is call abuse.. and you wonder why the children are out of hand today
I guess my memories of going to Flint Powers High School, shopping at the Meijer on Pierson Road, eating at Halo Burger, going to see the Flint Generals hockey team play, etc. are "anecdotes" and not based on real life experiences. Thanks for telling me that my past is a lie. By the way, I never mentioned what race they were (there were white welfare queens in Flint too).
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.
perdition(troy
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (89%)
no one cares dohdough.
n8rockerasu
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 52 (100%)
Well, I don't think you can say it's BETTER to be poor. Some people just manage their money like idiots and then wonder why it's all gone.
As for this school incident, they should make an example out of her to send her a wake up call and show the rest of the kids this is not how you behave. Clearly, her mother is worthless with statements like "I know my children". Yeah, lady, the teacher is just making it up because she hates your daughter. It's not like she makes incredible sacrifices to better her as a human being and probably pays for a lot of the things in her classroom out of her own pocket. I know there are some bad teachers, but the majority of them go so far above and beyond in trying to help these kids.
My wife is a teacher, but has been working as a sub this year while pregnant. She's worked at a wide range of schools, and you start to get an idea real quick which ones are "bad schools". Overall, it has nothing to do with race. The lynchpin is income. Schools in low-income areas are (big surprise) severely worse than "normal schools". I don't have numbers for it, but I'm sure many of these families are also single parent families. These things tend to go hand in hand.
I will say, it's unfortunate that we have noticed a trend that, at least here in Nashville, many of the low-income schools also happen to be mostly black. But there's no inherrent quality about being black that makes a bad kid. It's the situation they're born into. In the good schools my wife has taught in, she's had plenty of black kids be the best behaved students in the class. Their skin tone isn't determining this.
A quick search on greatschools.org gives you a pretty good picture of each school. This Zellwood school is actually a little different. 77% of the kids at this school are eligible for free or reduced lunch (state average for FL is 46%), so that tells you a lot right there. As for the demographics, it's 47% Hispanic, 32% White, and 17% Black. It's actually more diverse than a lot of the low income schools around here (I'm talking like 98% black...which I think is just as bad as an all white school. It does nothing to help the kids grow).
Most likely, this is one of those kids who treats her mother the same way she treated this teacher. Too many parents expect the schools to raise their kids these days, and the schools just don't have the freedom of discipline to be able to pull that off (not that they should be expected to anyway). The worst they can do is threaten to call the kids parents. If the parents don't give a shit, then what's it worth? Parents need to wake the hell up and realize that teachers are there to make sure your kid doesn't become a worthless member of society. The least they can do is believe what they say.
As for this school incident, they should make an example out of her to send her a wake up call and show the rest of the kids this is not how you behave. Clearly, her mother is worthless with statements like "I know my children". Yeah, lady, the teacher is just making it up because she hates your daughter. It's not like she makes incredible sacrifices to better her as a human being and probably pays for a lot of the things in her classroom out of her own pocket. I know there are some bad teachers, but the majority of them go so far above and beyond in trying to help these kids.
My wife is a teacher, but has been working as a sub this year while pregnant. She's worked at a wide range of schools, and you start to get an idea real quick which ones are "bad schools". Overall, it has nothing to do with race. The lynchpin is income. Schools in low-income areas are (big surprise) severely worse than "normal schools". I don't have numbers for it, but I'm sure many of these families are also single parent families. These things tend to go hand in hand.
I will say, it's unfortunate that we have noticed a trend that, at least here in Nashville, many of the low-income schools also happen to be mostly black. But there's no inherrent quality about being black that makes a bad kid. It's the situation they're born into. In the good schools my wife has taught in, she's had plenty of black kids be the best behaved students in the class. Their skin tone isn't determining this.
A quick search on greatschools.org gives you a pretty good picture of each school. This Zellwood school is actually a little different. 77% of the kids at this school are eligible for free or reduced lunch (state average for FL is 46%), so that tells you a lot right there. As for the demographics, it's 47% Hispanic, 32% White, and 17% Black. It's actually more diverse than a lot of the low income schools around here (I'm talking like 98% black...which I think is just as bad as an all white school. It does nothing to help the kids grow).
Most likely, this is one of those kids who treats her mother the same way she treated this teacher. Too many parents expect the schools to raise their kids these days, and the schools just don't have the freedom of discipline to be able to pull that off (not that they should be expected to anyway). The worst they can do is threaten to call the kids parents. If the parents don't give a shit, then what's it worth? Parents need to wake the hell up and realize that teachers are there to make sure your kid doesn't become a worthless member of society. The least they can do is believe what they say.
[quote name='lilboo']Umm.. when I lived in Philly and I was 16 years old, I was a cashier for a supermarket for about a little over a year. I've seen MANY people buy "filet mignons and lobsters" (and everything else) when pulling out the access card. But I suppose I never really worked there, and this was just a dream when I was in that coma. I also am making up that many (MANY, not ALL) of the people who would pull out the access card seemed to dress nicer than a lot of people who didn't pull out the card. I know, I know. Darn that coma.[/QUOTE]
And how quick would they run out of money if they were buying steaks and lobster? Pretty damn quick unless they didn't mind eating ramen or starving for the rest of the month. Try again.
[quote name='Machine']I guess my memories of going to Flint Powers High School, shopping at the Meijer on Pierson Road, eating at Halo Burger, going to see the Flint Generals hockey team play, etc. are "anecdotes" and not based on real life experiences. Thanks for telling me that my past is a lie. By the way, I never mentioned what race they were (there were white welfare queens in Flint too).
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.[/QUOTE]
Just because there are "white welfare queens"(there aren't welfare queens period) doesn't mean that it hasn't been racialized into a perception that it's mostly single black mothers with multiple kids and different fathers.
I don't care what you think about me dismissing your anecdotes because you still haven't demonstrated any understanding of how statistics work OR the creation of the welfare queen myth beyond vomiting a 30 year old lie told by Reagan OR the fact that there are numerous official and reputable surveys and studies that trump your anecdotes.
And how many late model(less than 2 years old) LUXURY cars do you see in impoverished neighborhoods? Hardly any. Just because someone drives a Cadillac, Mercedes, Lexus, etc doesn't mean that it's new or isn't on it's last legs. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if they were driving a brand new Hyundai Equus right?
And how quick would they run out of money if they were buying steaks and lobster? Pretty damn quick unless they didn't mind eating ramen or starving for the rest of the month. Try again.
[quote name='Machine']I guess my memories of going to Flint Powers High School, shopping at the Meijer on Pierson Road, eating at Halo Burger, going to see the Flint Generals hockey team play, etc. are "anecdotes" and not based on real life experiences. Thanks for telling me that my past is a lie. By the way, I never mentioned what race they were (there were white welfare queens in Flint too).
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.[/QUOTE]
Just because there are "white welfare queens"(there aren't welfare queens period) doesn't mean that it hasn't been racialized into a perception that it's mostly single black mothers with multiple kids and different fathers.
I don't care what you think about me dismissing your anecdotes because you still haven't demonstrated any understanding of how statistics work OR the creation of the welfare queen myth beyond vomiting a 30 year old lie told by Reagan OR the fact that there are numerous official and reputable surveys and studies that trump your anecdotes.
And how many late model(less than 2 years old) LUXURY cars do you see in impoverished neighborhoods? Hardly any. Just because someone drives a Cadillac, Mercedes, Lexus, etc doesn't mean that it's new or isn't on it's last legs. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if they were driving a brand new Hyundai Equus right?
silentevil
CAGiversary!
I don't understand how race was brought into this. The article says nothing about anyone's race parent, child, or teacher.
Trancendental
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 4 (100%)
[quote name='Machine']I guess my memories of going to Flint Powers High School, shopping at the Meijer on Pierson Road, eating at Halo Burger, going to see the Flint Generals hockey team play, etc. are "anecdotes" and not based on real life experiences. Thanks for telling me that my past is a lie. By the way, I never mentioned what race they were (there were white welfare queens in Flint too).
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.[/QUOTE]
You sound like a bitter little man.
How about you try waking up to what's really going on the world instead of worrying that someone else got more from the govt then you did.
Since it was brought up, I do remember seeing people buying steaks with food stamps and driving away in their Cadillacs. When I was little, I always wondered why "poor" people had nicer cars and ate nicer food than we did. It always looked like being poor was better than being lower middle-class.[/QUOTE]
You sound like a bitter little man.
How about you try waking up to what's really going on the world instead of worrying that someone else got more from the govt then you did.
bread's done