11.6 million defective 360's

[quote name='JJSP']For what it's worth, when my launch PS2 crapped out four months into things, Sony pretty much laughed at me when I tried to get them to fix it. I, too, enjoyed the lovely racist system that would only play certain colored discs.[/QUOTE]


It's an odd thing... most people considered the XBox to be relatively robust last gen... (mine suffered from the "dirty disc" error about 3 months after the price drop) and the PS2 needed some serious revisions (which were never acknowledged) before it became stable (and I'm not all that convinced the slim PS2's have the same lifespan as their fatter ancestor...). Now this gen, we've got the opposite. I experienced nothing w/r/t the PS2's design flaw (bad dvd drive or whatever that was)... and hopefully, I've not burned all my karma and my 360 will continue to run... ( I baby my electronics possibly too much....)

I've not googled it yet, but I assume the GC was/is very stable too. I just think this is one of those things that no one would've expected with the rushed launch date. The 360 owner in me hopes they don't burn through their lead and have it cost them in terms of future titles.. (I'm sure it won't... but if it gets worse for them, it'll be a PR debacle the likes of which even sony would say "wow..." to.)

I don't mind failure problems (my Xbox could've been a fluke or a poor choice in DVD drives... I don't know) but systemic ones bother me a bit...

Here's to hoping the 65nm models address the issue permanently... :)
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I just disagree that they should have kept their mouth shut.

I think it's pretty obvious that there was something wrong. I don't think they need to lock me up for claiming that we knew something was off with it.[/QUOTE]


not attacking you, just pointing out that I don't think anyone was expecting it to be a problem with all systems.
 
It doesn't matter if your console hasn't died yet, the point is that it has defective components in it.

It'd be like saying "Well it's well known that the battery to my particular laptop is defective, but since it hasn't exploded yet, it's OK!"
 
The interesting thing to me in all of this? While I still have my original 360 (only bought in Feb. though), I've been through 3 Wiis since launch. That's of course a fluke, but it just amuses me that the system that is notorious for dying is still running fine for me, while the company that has the rep to make solild, never-failing hardware has had to replace my system twice in 8 months ;)

But, as Jer said, fix it fast and well and everything's ok. I'd of course rather not have crappy hardware to put up with in the first place, but good customer service can prompt attention to it will help things greatly. Of course, one may debate whether or not Microsoft has been prompt to take care of these things, but that's an issue for another thread probably.
 
Interesting.

Well based on the small pool of people I personally know who own a 360 the numbers are like this:
Total Friends with a 360 (Includes me): 8
Broken 360's: 14
One of my friends had his break twice now and the other went trough 5 360s before he got one that was "serviceable".

Obviously this is a small sample but it doesn't bode well.
 
[quote name='JJSP']For what it's worth, when my launch PS2 crapped out four months into things, Sony pretty much laughed at me when I tried to get them to fix it. I, too, enjoyed the lovely racist system that would only play certain colored discs.[/quote]That was a design flaw in the lasers they used. The PS2 was origionally intended to use those blue colored discs for games but devlopers began to use DVD discs instead as the disc held more data.
 
To me lots of people are missing the key issue here. It's not the warranty they give, prompt service, some other company's similar woes, etc. No, not at all.

To me the issue is how long has MS known about this and what have they done to correct it for the future?

The answer to part one is probably for awhile now, or at least had the notion. They obviously had addressed concerns even early on with the "it's a normal failure rate" excuse. My guess is if they hadn't started examining the hardware design already after all those concerns then they likely started to then.

The answer to part two is jack crap. Nothing's been done to solve this "design flaw" and to me that's what is most disappointing. If I were to send my 360 in for service now I'd get back a remanufactuered 360 with the exact same design flaw in it, the exact same potential for failure. The problem wasn't solved in their recent hardware revision obviously. Hell, the super sad thing is I can't even walk into a store now and purchase a console that doesn't have this "flaw". The only fix in the future that comes even close to solving this is the 65nm chip issue. However, that's already been kicked back once and now there's been no solid date given it to hit production, and honestly we, as the public at least, don't even know if it will actually be a fix for this "design flaw", all we know is that it's *supposed to* make the thing run cooler which we are all simply assuming will help the problem.

To me, all this added up equals a failure in hardware design, PR, etc. We can argue about how good or bad the warranty is or whine about Sony having a similar problem 4 years ago, but to me all that really does is sidestep the heart of the issue for the here and now.
 
all i know is that after them having it for a week, i am now told it will take a good 4-6 weeks for repair after being told 2 weeks max, so they are prob getting slammed right now with broken systems
 
I'm going to ASSume they were unaware of the flaw when they first produced the 360. Although, it does seem rather pointless for MS to keep replacing faulty consoles, with another faulty console.

I really want to get mine back from service, but I can just imagine that I will get the RRoD again in the future. Maybe the NEXT time I will get a "GOOD" console.
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']To paraphrase you...

my launch PS2 never had any problems... :)

In fact, I still use it. I would be willing to bet that the difference between "disc read errors" on blue disks and total system failure because of defective parts/design are not equivalent in terms of severity. *shrug*

...but that's just me. Does that make me a Sony fan now? :D[/quote]

no it doens't make you a sony fan, but ignorant to the problems the ps2 had...I went thru 6 of the ps2...most of them were the DRE, but it wouldn't play any disc not just the blue ones....all my friends had issues with there ps2 as well. I am fairly sure there was a class action lawsuit that either sony settled or lost recently.

IMO, msft fucked up big time with the planning of the launch of the 360. I am on my 3rd one now. People can bitch all they want about the poor design, the lack of communication from them etc...the bottom line is they stepped up unlike any other console maker has ever done. Yes they most likely have the worst defective rate of any maker, but they still stepped up.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']
IMO, msft fucked up big time with the planning of the launch of the 360. I am on my 3rd one now. People can bitch all they want about the poor design, the lack of communication from them etc...the bottom line is they stepped up unlike any other console maker has ever done. Yes they most likely have the worst defective rate of any maker, but they still stepped up.[/QUOTE]


they had to step up or else get sued big time, possibly get forced to do a recall, and lose a lot of consumer trust. it's good that they did, but it's not like they're noble for doing this. I don't want to turn this in to Sony vs. MS, but this is going down exactly like the PS2-- at first they were bad about fixing out of warranty systems, charging lots of money to do it, then as they realized the problems were widespread, they began fixing everyone's systems no questions asked.

either way, both companies suck for rushing out fundamentally broken products.
 
Judging by the number of systems we get on a daily basis (anywhere from 3-5 on average) going back to Microsoft, I'd say it's a safe bet that there's at least half of the 360's that are faulty.
 
[quote name='guyjr']Since I just got mine a few weeks ago, I'm ok with keeping it around and not having to deal with the hassle of a potential recall in the future. In exchange, I'd like Microsoft to issue a policy change on the way they handle XBLA games, where if you have to get a botched system repaired / replaced that they move the games you purchased on the broken system to the new one, free of charge, or at the very least allow you to download them again, such that they are playable offline and online. The current policy locks XBLA games to the system, not just the hard drive, and is the main reason why I'm avoiding any XBLA purchases.[/QUOTE]

I've purchased a bunch of content and luckily my system hasn't failed. Because this limitation should be removed. They should be able to link the content to a second device or associate both devices with your ID etc. It's stupid that they have not fixed this.
 
The sad thing about all of this is that until there is a new design we will be returning out broken systems to them until the 3 year warranty is up. They will continue to ship refurbished old systems back to us. In the end we will have gotten 3 years of play out of it, but how many people will go buy a new 360 after? This could leave a lot of consumers unhappy with MS.

It's really a no brainer for them to want to avoid a recall or lawsuit. Either could cost them many times more than 1 billion. Currently they only have to repair 10 million consoles 1 time. We all know that some people have working launch systems and that others have sent a system in multiple times. So perhaps refurbed systems fail more often than a new system?
 
Xbox 360 Exec Sold Stock Before Revealing Console Flaw
The Microsoft division chief unloaded $6.1 million in stock before announcing the problem.

Weeks before he announced an "unacceptable number of repairs" to the Xbox 360, the Microsoft executive in charge of the video game console sold US$6.15 million worth of company stock, or about 20 percent of his holdings.

According to regulatory filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's entertainment and devices division, sold 200,000 shares in four transactions between May 3 and May 30. The total take: more than $6.1 million.

On July 5, Bach was one of two Microsoft executives who spelled out the problems with the Xbox 360 to financial analysts and reporters. The game machine's design, Bach said, was defective. "Over the past couple of months, the number of repairs for the Xbox 360 console have been unacceptable to us," he said during a telephone conference call.

To handle the influx of customer complaints, Microsoft said it was immediately extending the Xbox 360's warranty from one to three years for any problem diagnosed with the three flashing lights error message, dubbed the "red ring of death" by users. To pay for the anticipated repairs, and to evaluate and fix systems still in inventory, Microsoft will take a charge of more than $1 billion against earnings for the quarter that ended June 30.

Also during the conference call, Bach said that Microsoft had been aware of the Xbox 360 problems for several months. "This set of issues wasn't visible at all for the first year and more," he said. "[But] the past couple of months, we've seen a significant increase in call volume, repair volume and attention from people."

Before his May moves, Bach last sold shares Aug. 31, 2006, when he disposed of 40,710 shares worth just over $1 million. But although top-tier executives often file scheduled sell plans -- dubbed "trading plans" in the vernacular -- to protect themselves from accusations of insider trading, Bach's May sales were not under such a plan.

Still, Bach should be given the benefit of the doubt, said Ben Silverman, director of research at InsiderScore, an insider trading intelligence service. "There's so much scrutiny of Microsoft that it would be very surprising if there was some kind of questionable insider activity," said Silverman.

Another type of trading plan, noted Silverman, doesn't require a public filing. These plans, which fall under the SEC's Rule 10b5-1, let companies set a trade window during which executives can sell (and buy, though that's rare) shares without restrictions. "It appears that there was a trading window open in May at Microsoft," Silverman added, citing sales by several other executives, including Chairman Bill Gates, General Counsel Brad Smith and the head of the Windows division, Kevin Johnson. "There were no insider sales in April and March," he said, intimating that the timing may not have been up to Bach.

Microsoft's share price was little affected by the news of the Xbox 360's failure rate and the associated $1 billion charge. The day after the announcement, the price closed down just 2 cents. As of Thursday, it had recovered to $30.07, up 8 cents since the July 5 warranty change. Bach sold his shares in May at an average price of $30.73.

Microsoft did not respond to a request for comment.
Click to expand...

So this is starting to piss me off. I've had to console mess up on me.
 
[quote name='Indiana']The sad thing about all of this is that until there is a new design we will be returning out broken systems to them until the 3 year warranty is up. They will continue to ship refurbished old systems back to us. In the end we will have gotten 3 years of play out of it, but how many people will go buy a new 360 after? This could leave a lot of consumers unhappy with MS.
[/QUOTE]

Well, with this announcement, and reports of recent refurbs having new heat sinks, that bodes well that they've figured out a fix for the problem and the refurbs people are getting back now should be less prone to getting the red rings of death again.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']sadly white-collar crime went extinct in 2000[/QUOTE]

Web_MarthaStewart.jpg

2004-08-082004-08-08kenlay.jpg


ORLY?

It sure seems rather untrue to me. We can argue all day and night about fairness, power, and prosecution, but that's the argument here. Does the dumping of stock by Bach violate federal law? I would be willing to bet yes.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']no it doens't make you a sony fan, but ignorant to the problems the ps2 had...I went thru 6 of the ps2...most of them were the DRE, but it wouldn't play any disc not just the blue ones....all my friends had issues with there ps2 as well. I am fairly sure there was a class action lawsuit that either sony settled or lost recently.
[/QUOTE]

I know about the class action suit... and the settlement because they sent me information about it since I had a registered launch console. I was not eligible for the settlement since I never had mine repaired. I knew about the DRE's and the fixes you could perform yourself aligning the laser mechanism. (I even saved the webpage, "just in case...") But the Sony situation was more their arrogance than a total system failure, because while this happened to a large # of consoles, it wasn't all of them. Microsoft's betting that _ALL_ 360's will fail... and that doesn't bode well.... Serious nonsense... the killer is they aren't admitting a systemic flaw... (Just like Sony)... MS learned from Sony though.. by at least giving a bone to the great unwashed who might be wondering why so many are failing... "We'll fix it free for 3 years... (RROD only)"

And you're right... they (MS) botched this BIG time. They rushed this to market to beat the competition... and it worked for a while... now this... Will it hamper sales? Probably not... but it will put that in the back of people's minds _next_ generation...
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']sadly white-collar crime went extinct in 2000[/QUOTE]


quoted for hilarity.
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']And you're right... they (MS) botched this BIG time. They rushed this to market to beat the competition... and it worked for a while... now this... Will it hamper sales? Probably not... but it will put that in the back of people's minds _next_ generation...[/quote]

Well said. MS has some great games coming to its system in the next 6 months that will continue its success. The general public will see past the problems when they see a 3 year warranty compared to the usual 90 days and 1 year. Add to that, Halo, GTAIV, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Fable 2, Halo Wars (right?), Mass Effect, CoD4, Virtua Fighter 5, etc...these are games that people will gladly open their wallets for. Yes, some of them will be on the PS3, but the ones that won't will definitely sell some systems.

But next-gen...if i haven't converted to PC gaming by then, i can guarantee you that i WILL NOT be buying a MS console. After what has happened thus far, it will be either Sony or Sega (anyone say Dreamcast 2 ;))
 
So the new "falcon" Xbox 360 coming out should fix this problem? If it does unless they clearly make the box I'd have to careful not to buy one online and get the older one. I'd like to get an Xbox 360 but I'd rather wait until they come out with the new one.
 
[quote name='AvidWriter']So the new "falcon" Xbox 360 coming out should fix this problem? If it does unless they clearly make the box I'd have to careful not to buy one online and get the older one. I'd like to get an Xbox 360 but I'd rather wait until they come out with the new one.[/QUOTE]


Since there's only speculation as to what the issue is, no one is really sure if "Falcon" or even the 65nm chips will fix the problem...

MS is tight-lipped about the issue officially, but unless there's a redesign of some cooling (as it's been put out in various threads before) and whatnot around the GPU, dunno if any new 360 will address the problem.

I'd like to think it would.... Don't get me wrong...
 
[quote name='Mechafenris']Since there's only speculation as to what the issue is, no one is really sure if "Falcon" or even the 65nm chips will fix the problem...

MS is tight-lipped about the issue officially, but unless there's a redesign of some cooling (as it's been put out in various threads before) and whatnot around the GPU, dunno if any new 360 will address the problem.

I'd like to think it would.... Don't get me wrong...[/QUOTE]

I see. I wasnt aware that the problem wasnt well known. I'd assume and hope that the redesign would fix the problem. The fact, or at least the supposed fact that every Xbox right now could possible break is like saying every kid born has cancer but it might not kill you. I can't buy one with that kind of problem. They increased it to 3 years but buying one to have it gone for weeks perhaps while its getting fixed/replaced doesnt sound fun. I do however want one but I figure at this point I might just get an xbox...most of the games I want to play are xbox and most 360 titles are still to expensive. *sigh*
 
I want an Xbox 360, but I've decided to wait until there is a confirmed hardware revision (65nm chip, extra heatsink, better thermal paste, etc.) before purchasing one.
 
I'm shocked and amazed my 360 has only froze once since they day I bought it and I play it over 20+ hours a week. I'm expecting it to die anyday now. Rly.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']I'm shocked and amazed my 360 has only froze once since they day I bought it and I play it over 20+ hours a week. I'm expecting it to die anyday now. Rly.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure there is more evidence if you look but perhaps the breakdown occurs when the system is on for 10+ hours. Its easy for younger players to play that long is a stretch. I wonder.
 
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