2004 NBA Finals Thread

[quote name='rjblazed']Kevin Garnett is a great player and deserved the MVP this year for sure. Kobe is still a better defender, has more range on a consistant basis, can post up his man as good as anyone else at his position, and is willing to be the clutch player for his team. Garnett has the edge in rebounding and blocked shots not too much more. Plus Garnett still doesn't take over games the way Kobe does he still passes too much when he should be the one creating a shot and taking it instead of fred hoeiberg or one of the other guys.[/quote]

I don't know that Kobe is a better defender than KG. They are both very good defensive players, but sometimes Kobe gets burned when he's got no business getting burned. I can remember at least 3 times that Trenton Hassell...TRENTON HASSELL, took him off the dribble for a layup. The thing that puts KG over the top is that he makes everyone on his team better. You think it's a coincidence that Cassell had his best season this year? Hoiberg and Hassell were Bulls castoffs and they flourished as role players with the Wolves. I love the canned statement that KG passes too much that we've been hearing for years. To an extent it may be true, but this year he showed that he can be the go to guy and carry a team. KG has averaged 20+ points, 10+ boards, and 5+ assists for what, 6 straight years? That is an all around player. KG also shoots a better percentage than Kobe and is not selfish player. KG doesn't take bad shots for the most part, which I can't say the same for Kobe. I really don't know how you can argue with me after the last series. KG brought up the ball, initiated the play, set the pick, and often times finished the play....pass or shoot. Furthermore, for a player that takes over so much, why doesn't Kobe average more points than KG?

Kobe is damn good, don't get me wrong, but all around, it's hard to argue against KG IMO. If I had to build a team around someone, it would be Garnett. If I was down by one, with 2 seconds left, I would want Kobe taking the shot.
 
No one ever said Kobe was a leader. What i said is Kobe can take over a game easier and more regularly than Garnett ever does.
 
[quote name='daphatty']KG is good. So is Kobe. But McGrady is better. No 1 IMO. And lets not forget Shorty McShoot-a-lot a.k.a. Allen Iverson.[/quote]

WOW! That is an insane statement if you ask me. I don't even know how to respond to that. At least rjblazed has some bullets in his gun for Kobe, but you're just shooting blanks with that one.
 
[quote name='rjblazed']No one ever said Kobe was a leader. What i said is Kobe can take over a game easier and more regularly than Garnett ever does.[/quote]

This is true, but that alone does not make him a better "all around player". Kobe = better clutch performer. KG = better all around player.

I am waaay too obsessed with this thread right now. Good discussion guys!! :)
 
[quote name='rjblazed']No one ever said Kobe was a leader. What i said is Kobe can take over a game easier and more regularly than Garnett ever does.[/quote]

It was somewhat implied by your previous post. I agree he can take over a game better than Garnett but I question his motivations. For example, time he scored like 1 point because Jackson told him to stop ball hoging, and then the next night scored over 40 just to prove that "he's the man."
 
As far as I'm concerned, Kobe is the most talented player in the league. The fact is, when he wants to score, he's going to. When he wants to set up an assist, he will. You'd have a hard time learning to let go of the ball if you had his kind of talent too. I would rate Kobe and KG as the top two players in the league without hesitation though.
 
KG is great
Kobe is great
TMAC is great

They all have good points about them, but they also have some negatives in their games too. Add AI @point and Shaq @ center, with Timmy off the bench that's my squad.
 
[quote name='chickenhawk'][quote name='daphatty']KG is good. So is Kobe. But McGrady is better. No 1 IMO. And lets not forget Shorty McShoot-a-lot a.k.a. Allen Iverson.[/quote]

WOW! That is an insane statement if you ask me. I don't even know how to respond to that. At least rjblazed has some bullets in his gun for Kobe, but you're just shooting blanks with that one.[/quote]

This is just my opinion. Kobe and T-Mac match up pretty evenly as players but McG has a better attitude. You can have all the skills in the world but that won't help you if you are two busy basking in your own ego. The only thing that has kept Kobe's ego in check this year is his rape case. Otherwise, it would be drama city in LA just like the previous 4 years. T-Mac on the otherhand is a frustrated super talent. He's begging for help and the Magic organization has yet to provide him with any. Grant Hill was supposed to be it and we all know how that turned out.

Like I said that's just my opinion.
 
[quote name='rjblazed']But if there was ever a reason for cockiness isn't it having the 2 best players in the league and 3 titles in 4 years soon to be 4 in 5.[/quote]

I forget that Kobe won the MVP this ye...oh wait, that was KG. Maybe last year...nope Duncan and the year before that? Hrm. Kobe is good, no doubt, but him and Shaq are not the 2 best players in the league.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']Iverson is not in the same league as Kobe or Mcgrady[/quote]

you're right; he's in a different league: he has the heart of a soldier.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']Iverson is not in the same league as Kobe or Mcgrady[/quote]

I disagree. Completely. He's accomplished alot for a guy his size. And lets not forget, he's broken quite a few ankles INCLUDING Michael Jordan's (The Bulls version).
 
I think Carmello did a pretty nice job of securing himself as a dominant player this year as well. No 1? Nah, but he did some amazing things with that Nuggets team.
 
[quote name='Snowcone'][quote name='rjblazed']But if there was ever a reason for cockiness isn't it having the 2 best players in the league and 3 titles in 4 years soon to be 4 in 5.[/quote]

I forget that Kobe won the MVP this ye...oh wait, that was KG. Maybe last year...nope Duncan and the year before that? Hrm. Kobe is good, no doubt, but him and Shaq are not the 2 best players in the league.[/quote]

I don't think not winning a MVP award automatically discounts either Kobe or Shaq from not being the best players in the league. I mean still, can anyone really handle Shaq?
 
[quote name='daphatty'][quote name='Lstorm34']Iverson is not in the same league as Kobe or Mcgrady[/quote]

I disagree. Completely. He's accomplished alot for a guy his size. And lets not forget, he's broken quite a few ankles INCLUDING Michael Jordan's (The Bulls version).[/quote]
imagine how BETTER of a player he would be if he just PRACTICED. this is the same guy who said "i never heard of no all star coming off the bench, i start or i dont play". He should of looked back in history where there were good players that came off the bench.
 
[quote name='Santorum X'][quote name='Snowcone'][quote name='rjblazed']But if there was ever a reason for cockiness isn't it having the 2 best players in the league and 3 titles in 4 years soon to be 4 in 5.[/quote]

I forget that Kobe won the MVP this ye...oh wait, that was KG. Maybe last year...nope Duncan and the year before that? Hrm. Kobe is good, no doubt, but him and Shaq are not the 2 best players in the league.[/quote]

I don't think not winning a MVP award automatically discounts either Kobe or Shaq from not being the best players in the league. I mean still, can anyone really handle Shaq?[/quote]

Yao Ming did a damned good job of handling him.
 
Carmello deserved rookie of the year for what he did with the Nuggets. The Cavs couldn't even make the playoffs in the east, where a losing record can still get you in! Admittedly, KG deserved the MVP for what the T-wolves did this year, but I still say Kobe is the best in the league. MVP doesn't always go to the best player, especially when the team is expected to be 72-0 (as the pre-season Laker hype hoped).
 
I don't give Shaq credit for becoming a fucking linebacker. Fat bastard spends his summers at In-And-Out burger. Of course no one can compete with him. No one can move his fat ass out of the way! He even said that he's the only NFL player in the NBA.

Oh, and only Shaq could get sidelined for a hurt toe. WTF is that??!?!

[/rant]

Sorry I couldn't stop myself.
 
[quote name='Snowcone'][quote name='Santorum X'][quote name='Snowcone'][quote name='rjblazed']But if there was ever a reason for cockiness isn't it having the 2 best players in the league and 3 titles in 4 years soon to be 4 in 5.[/quote]

I forget that Kobe won the MVP this ye...oh wait, that was KG. Maybe last year...nope Duncan and the year before that? Hrm. Kobe is good, no doubt, but him and Shaq are not the 2 best players in the league.[/quote]

I don't think not winning a MVP award automatically discounts either Kobe or Shaq from not being the best players in the league. I mean still, can anyone really handle Shaq?[/quote]

Yao Ming did a damned good job of handling him.[/quote]

Yeah, for the first couple quarters then Shaq just went off on Yao.
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']Carmello deserved rookie of the year for what he did with the Nuggets. The Cavs couldn't even make the playoffs in the east, where a losing record can still get you in! Admittedly, KG deserved the MVP for what the T-wolves did this year, but I still say Kobe is the best in the league. MVP doesn't always go to the best player, especially when the team is expected to be 72-0 (as the pre-season Laker hype hoped).[/quote]

Personally, I think both Melo and LeBron should have shared the ROY award. They both stepped up and exceeded their expectations.
 
Snowcone wrote:
"Yao Ming did a damned good job of handling him."

are you sure? shaq averaged 22 points and 14 rebounds against yao in the playoffs where it COUNTED
 
[quote name='daphatty']I don't give Shaq credit for becoming a shaq-fuing linebacker. Fat bastard spends his summers at In-And-Out burger. Of course no one can compete with him. No one can move his fat ass out of the way! He even said that he's the only NFL player in the NBA.

Oh, and only Shaq could get sidelined for a hurt toe. WTF is that??!?!

[/rant]

Sorry I couldn't stop myself.[/quote]
Ouch. I'm gonna write to Shaq and tell him what you said. mmmm In and Out burger.
 
[quote name='daphatty']No one can move his fat ass out of the way! He even said that he's the only NFL player in the NBA.[/quote]

Do you guys think Shaq would make a good offensive guard?
 
[quote name='Santorum X']Yeah, for the first couple quarters then Shaq just went off.[/quote]

From the Rockets Lakers series:

Apr 28 vs Rockets PLF 97-78 W Points: 12
Apr 25 at Rockets PLF 92-88 W Points: 17
Apr 23 at Rockets PLF 91-102 L Points: 25
Apr 19 vs Rockets PLF 98-84 W Points: 7
Apr 17 vs Rockets PLF 72-71 W Points: 20

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal/game_by_game_stats.html

Compare that with the other games he played in the playoffs:
May 31 vs Timberwolves Points: 25
May 29 at Timberwolves Points: 17
May 27 vs Timberwolves Points: 19
May 25 vs Timberwolves Points: 22
May 23 at Timberwolves Points: 14
May 21 at Timberwolves Points: 27
May 15 vs Spurs Points: 17
May 13 at Spurs Points: 11
May 11 vs Spurs Points: 28
May 09 vs Spurs Points: 28
May 05 at Spurs Points: 32
May 02 at Spurs Points: 19

He is averaging 20 PPG and Yao held him to 20 or below 4 of the 5 games (http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/) and 21.5 PPG for the year. I think its safe to say that Yao handled him pretty well.
 
I was waiting for you to say something like that Nick. This one is almost as much fun as the other thread with the sacramento fan.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']Snowcone wrote:
"Yao Ming did a damned good job of handling him."

are you sure? shaq averaged 22 points and 14 rebounds against yao in the playoffs where it COUNTED[/quote]

Or not...

He average 16.2 PPG and 11.2 RPG against Houston this postseason.
 
fuck. Gotta go to my second job. I'd love to sit here and talk about this. I need my healthy dose of BB talk. Oh well. Enjoy guys!
 
[quote name='rjblazed']I was waiting for you to say something like that Nick. This one is almost as much fun as the other thread with the sacramento fan.[/quote]

I only speak the truth.
 
[quote name='BigNick'][quote name='rjblazed']I was waiting for you to say something like that Nick. This one is almost as much fun as the other thread with the sacramento fan.[/quote]

I only speak the truth.[/quote]

Except when you are wrong. :p
 
[quote name='Snowcone'][quote name='Santorum X']Yeah, for the first couple quarters then Shaq just went off.[/quote]

From the Rockets Lakers series:

Apr 28 vs Rockets PLF 97-78 W Points: 12
Apr 25 at Rockets PLF 92-88 W Points: 17
Apr 23 at Rockets PLF 91-102 L Points: 25
Apr 19 vs Rockets PLF 98-84 W Points: 7
Apr 17 vs Rockets PLF 72-71 W Points: 20

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal/game_by_game_stats.html

Compare that with the other games he played in the playoffs:
May 31 vs Timberwolves Points: 25
May 29 at Timberwolves Points: 17
May 27 vs Timberwolves Points: 19
May 25 vs Timberwolves Points: 22
May 23 at Timberwolves Points: 14
May 21 at Timberwolves Points: 27
May 15 vs Spurs Points: 17
May 13 at Spurs Points: 11
May 11 vs Spurs Points: 28
May 09 vs Spurs Points: 28
May 05 at Spurs Points: 32
May 02 at Spurs Points: 19

He is averaging 20 PPG and Yao held him to 20 or below 4 of the 5 games (http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/) and 21.5 PPG for the year. I think its safe to say that Yao handled him pretty well.[/quote]

Look at the scores VERY CAREFULLY. those games that he scored 12, 7points it was a blowout he wasnt in the game during the 4th quarter.
p.s. my bad about the 22 14 stats thats playoff stats.
 
[quote name='daphatty'][quote name='chickenhawk'][quote name='daphatty']KG is good. So is Kobe. But McGrady is better. No 1 IMO. And lets not forget Shorty McShoot-a-lot a.k.a. Allen Iverson.[/quote]

WOW! That is an insane statement if you ask me. I don't even know how to respond to that. At least rjblazed has some bullets in his gun for Kobe, but you're just shooting blanks with that one.[/quote]

This is just my opinion. Kobe and T-Mac match up pretty evenly as players but McG has a better attitude. You can have all the skills in the world but that won't help you if you are two busy basking in your own ego. The only thing that has kept Kobe's ego in check this year is his rape case. Otherwise, it would be drama city in LA just like the previous 4 years. T-Mac on the otherhand is a frustrated super talent. He's begging for help and the Magic organization has yet to provide him with any. Grant Hill was supposed to be it and we all know how that turned out.

Like I said that's just my opinion.[/quote]

I will agree with you to some extent. TMac does have a better attitude. They match up well offensively also, although I do think Kobe is a bit better TMac has lots of work to do defensively though. That is what puts Kobe ahead of TMac. Also on the offensive side, TMac has done what he has done with no help like you said, which is testiment to how good a player he is, but it also says alot about Kobe in that he is still a dominant player even though his team has other options.
 
It's ok you can all hate the Lakers as much as you want as you watch the sportcenter highlights of the victory parade. :lol:
 
[quote name='rjblazed']It's ok you can all hate the Lakers as much as you want as you watch the sportcenter highlights of the victory parade. :lol:[/quote]

I am sure I will. The Pistons will be one excited team and the city of Detroit might even riot like LA does when they win. 8)
 
I saw posts about AI. My 2 cents. No one has more heart, but his attitude often needs adjustments. AI is a great player and I am one of the only AI supporters in my circle of friends. However, despite all he has accomplished, I really think he could have been better. He has never fully accepted that he isn't THE MAN. If he had done that, I think he would've been the man.

Over the last year or so, he has slipped a bit in my book. I still think he is a top 10 player.
 
[quote name='Santorum X']Shaq>Yao

3-4 years: Yao>every center in the NBA[/quote]

i was reading some article in the local paper few weeks ago how the lakers will try to get yao when he is a free agent. they say that the lakers will sign kobe back and let shaq walk after his contract is up. the laker upper management will try to sell to yao that if he came to LA he would play in an organization that had great centers(shaq, kareem, and wilt) and try to say to him he could be next if he plays with the lakers. hey thats how jerry west got shaq.
 
[quote name='rjblazed']It's ok you can all hate the Lakers as much as you want as you watch the sportcenter highlights of the victory parade. :lol:[/quote]

Unfortunately, I think you are right.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34'][quote name='Santorum X']Shaq>Yao

3-4 years: Yao>every center in the NBA[/quote]

i was reading some article in the local paper few weeks ago how the lakers will try to get yao when he is a free agent. they say that the lakers will sign kobe back and let shaq walk after his contract is up. the laker upper management will try to sell to yao that if he came to LA he would play in an organization that had great centers(shaq, kareem, and wilt) and try to say to him he could be next if he plays with the lakers. hey thats how jerry west got shaq.[/quote]

Sly devils. The Lakers will sign Kobe if he isn't being someone's bitch in jail.
 
no way kobe goes to jail. if O.J. can get away with murder and remember there was plenty of evidence that support he commited the crime. plus o.j. had a history of a wife beater. Kobe image is good. he will walk.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']no way kobe goes to jail. if O.J. can get away with murder and remember there was plenty of evidence that support he commited the crime. plus o.j. had a history of a wife beater. Kobe image is good. he will walk.[/quote]

Stranger things have happened.
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']no way kobe goes to jail. if O.J. can get away with murder and remember there was plenty of evidence that support he commited the crime. plus o.j. had a history of a wife beater. Kobe image is good. he will walk.[/quote]

I agree. Even if he is convicted, he will get probabtion.
 
[quote name='KingDox']I can't belive so many people think the Pistons are going to win it all.


Lakers in 5.[/quote]

Good call!!!! Lakers will win!
 
[quote name='Lstorm34']
i was reading some article in the local paper few weeks ago how the lakers will try to get yao when he is a free agent. they say that the lakers will sign kobe back and let shaq walk after his contract is up. the laker upper management will try to sell to yao that if he came to LA he would play in an organization that had great centers(shaq, kareem, and wilt) and try to say to him he could be next if he plays with the lakers. hey thats how jerry west got shaq.[/quote]

What about Vlade? :rofl:
 
[quote name='daphatty'][quote name='Lstorm34']
i was reading some article in the local paper few weeks ago how the lakers will try to get yao when he is a free agent. they say that the lakers will sign kobe back and let shaq walk after his contract is up. the laker upper management will try to sell to yao that if he came to LA he would play in an organization that had great centers(shaq, kareem, and wilt) and try to say to him he could be next if he plays with the lakers. hey thats how jerry west got shaq.[/quote]

What about Vlade? :rofl:[/quote]

Vlade says he wants to stay in Sacramento unless they don't want him anymore.
 
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