2005 NBA Play-off Predictions and discussion

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[quote name='atreyue']There are some coaches out there who are ineffective at getting big name players to follow their gameplans and find themselves adjusting the plan to what the player wants to do. You can base a system on 3 pointers, but having your power foward take them all the time is idiotic. Even if he made them a fair amount of the time, Walker does his team more good by playing his position. I think he's learned that lesson, by now. Kevin Garnett had the same exact problem until last season, which is why they couldn't get out of the 1st round.

Chris Webber is a completely different matter. He can no longer play effectively inside and so has no choice but to try to shoot the three. They tried to get him to do other things in the first couple of games and had absolutely no luck(much like his entire season with Philly thus far).[/QUOTE]

Sorry, this is a completely different subject. You're talking about how players *SHOULD* play the game.

Your initial post was saying something about how Walker sucked because he took all those 3s.. I already told you that it was O'Brien's system that predicated that.

You have now changed the subject..So unless you have something to back up the fact that O'Brien DIDN'T tell Walker to take those 3s, this argument is over.

Regarding the topic you switched to now, Pierce and Walker both took more than 600 threes the year they made the east finals. The East Finals for that team was a big achievement at the time, so if the coach has such a hard time getting through to the players, then how did they get that far in the first place?

Chris Webber DOES can still play in the high post and look for cutters and not drift towards the 3 point line. The Kings were so successful with him playing that way. You don't need athleticism to stand in the high post and make a pass.
 
[quote name='gsr']Sorry, this is a completely different subject. You're talking about how players *SHOULD* play the game.

Your initial post was saying something about how Walker sucked because he took all those 3s.. I already told you that it was O'Brien's system that predicated that.

You have now changed the subject..So unless you have something to back up the fact that O'Brien DIDN'T tell Walker to take those 3s, this argument is over.

Regarding the topic you switched to now, Pierce and Walker both took more than 600 threes the year they made the east finals. The East Finals for that team was a big achievement at the time, so if the coach has such a hard time getting through to the players, then how did they get that far in the first place?

Chris Webber DOES can still play in the high post and look for cutters and not drift towards the 3 point line. The Kings were so successful with him playing that way. You don't need athleticism to stand in the high post and make a pass.[/QUOTE]

There was a recent article in ESPN the magazine about this very subject. O'brien never wanted him taking those threes. It was just how Walker played. The reason he changed his game was to help the team and do what the coach wanted. He never wanted to be part of another team as bad as Atlanta again.
 
[quote name='greendc27']There was a recent article in ESPN the magazine about this very subject. O'brien never wanted him taking those threes. It was just how Walker played. The reason he changed his game was to help the team and do what the coach wanted. He never wanted to be part of another team as bad as Atlanta again.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. No coach wants his power forward shooting 3s.
 
[quote name='gsr']Sorry, this is a completely different subject. You're talking about how players *SHOULD* play the game.

Your initial post was saying something about how Walker sucked because he took all those 3s.. I already told you that it was O'Brien's system that predicated that.

You have now changed the subject..So unless you have something to back up the fact that O'Brien DIDN'T tell Walker to take those 3s, this argument is over.

Regarding the topic you switched to now, Pierce and Walker both took more than 600 threes the year they made the east finals. The East Finals for that team was a big achievement at the time, so if the coach has such a hard time getting through to the players, then how did they get that far in the first place?

Chris Webber DOES can still play in the high post and look for cutters and not drift towards the 3 point line. The Kings were so successful with him playing that way. You don't need athleticism to stand in the high post and make a pass.[/QUOTE]

Since the O'brien thing should now be answered, let's move on to the 2nd part of your post. Pierce and Walker are very good players, so even if they don't play in position or smartly, they can beat teams that aren't all that great. Now if you ask me, they were better than the Nets team that beat them. Why did they lose? Because the weakness of the Nets was at the power forward and center. As everyone should be able to see after this season, Kenyon Martin was vastly overrated. They were unable to exploit the Nets' weak point because their power forward didn't play power forward. Any team with a viable inside game has always destroyed the Nets for the past 3 seasons. If Walker had played power forward, they would have buried the Nets.

And lastly, if Webber were so great and such a huge part of Sacramento's success, they wouldn't have traded his ass. He's had absolutely no lift to his shots and has had considerable trouble hitting the jumpers he has consisted made during the last 5 years or so of his career. If he can no longer jump or bump well enough to play in the low post, the coach is going to make sure that he's not on the blocks clogging up the lane. So they move him to the 'high post' (basically the foul line). Since he's no longer valuable as a rebounder (see above reference to 6 inch vertical), the coach moves him even further away from the basket so that he can at least draw his defender away from the basket too and weaken the other team's interior defense that much more. All of a sudden, Webber finds himself on the very high post, which looks suspiciously like the 3 point line. Since the other team doesn't want their power forward to be standing up at the 3 point line unable to rebound or block shots in order to guard someone who's spent at least half his season struggling to make shots from the low post much less the high post, they tell him to play off of Webber, daring him to shoot. If he won't, suddenly the sixers are playing 4 on 5. Luckily for them, he made the 3s. At least now he's something of a threat. I wouldn't be suprised to see detroit try Prince or even Hamilton on Webber to keep their big men in and prevent Iverson from slashing them to shreds.
 
[quote name='atreyue']Thank you. No coach wants his power forward shooting 3s.[/QUOTE]

Unless, of course, your power forward is Dirk.
 
[quote name='Derwood43']Unless, of course, your power forward is Dirk.[/QUOTE]

He and Tracy McGrady both defy the stereotypical molds of their positions, but they are probably the only 2 people in the league most coaches would give that to.
 
ABC actually had a good question on Sunday. Which team will pose a greater challege for the Heat: Chicago or the Wizards?
 
[quote name='atreyue']ABC actually had a good question on Sunday. Which team will pose a greater challege for the Heat: Chicago or the Wizards?[/QUOTE]

um, can neither be an answer? The Heat look unstoppable. If I had to pick I'd say a healthy Chicago but the way they are now I'm leaning towards Washington...
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3163289

van gundy is not happy with the refs with calls on yao[/QUOTE]

sounds like someone is just pissed because they lost the last two games. Players point things out to the ref's all the time, and so what if Cuban points things out? If almost a third of what he pointed out should have been a foul, does he not have a legitimate gripe?
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']sounds like someone is just pissed because they lost the last two games. Players point things out to the ref's all the time, and so what if Cuban points things out? If almost a third of what he pointed out should have been a foul, does he not have a legitimate gripe?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure he's just working the refs over in preparation for game 5. He can't come out in a press conference and say, "Well, Yao just sucks."
 
How about the awful call at the end of game 3 or 4 when the game was close and Josh Howard collided with Jon Barry when they were both looking up at the ball and flying at each other? The fould could have gone on Jon Barry, but should not have been called at all, but they called it on Howard. A 20-0 run in the fourth quarter can't all be because Yao is getting called for fouls. Boo to Van Gundy.

...and did any of you Rockets fan read in the article about Cuban's questioning of the moving screen on Dikembe and Yao. What about Dikembe smashing Van Horn's face up numerous times with his nasty elbows????
 
[quote name='javeryh']um, can neither be an answer? The Heat look unstoppable. If I had to pick I'd say a healthy Chicago but the way they are now I'm leaning towards Washington...[/QUOTE]

I wonder what the chances are of seeing Shaq and Mourning on the floor together against a team with a good power foward...
 
I was happy to see Memphis get swept.

But was the deal with Bonzi Wells?
Is it true that he missed the game cause he missed practice? Thats a pretty big penalty considering its playoffs.
Fratello and him must be having problems off court.
Then Eminem Jr. snaps at the reporter at the end of the game.
Hopefully Memphis falls apart and becomes worst than the Hawks.
I hate Memphis.
 
The Mavericks are playing awesome tonight. Sucking up tons of offensive boards and hitting key shots to stop any Rocket push. Go MAVS!!!!!
 
Seriously if Memphis wasn't gonna show up for the playoffs they should've conceded the 8th seed to Minnesota. The Wolves would've certainly given Phoenix a run for their money. Then again Minnesota lost a critical end of the season game to the Hawks, so they really didn't deserve it either did they.



Oh and on a side note, I've been campaigning this for years (since his Maryland days really) but Juan Dixon is THE most underrated player in the NBA. I'd love to see him get on a team that actually uses him. Maybe the Wolves could drop Cassell and sign Dixon.
 
There were stupid calls both ways. I'm glad the Mavs won....I'm sure we'll hear more bitching from Van Gundy tonight and or tommorow. If Yao would have made half his free throws in the 4th quarter they would have won...hmm.
 
rockets vs mavs game 5

http://www.clutchfans.net/images/headline/screwed.jpg

The story going in to Game 5 was the poor officiating in the series. That storyline is about to get much, much worse. The officials made some incredibly bad calls late in favor of Dallas, including one that proved to be the game-winner as Dallas took a 3-2 series lead with a 103-100 win. Tracy McGrady intentionally missed a free throw with 3 seconds left and got his own board and put up a desperation three, but it was just long. The refs had granted Dallas two points with 50+ seconds left when Michael Finley, standing a clear foot or two out of bounds, stripped Jon Barry and Jerry Stackhouse got the ball and the foul. Officiating in this one was sick to my stomach. Free throws were the key thing to rockets and they missed about 6 or 7 in the 4th quarter. For one thing, the mavs missed about 5 fts as well in the 4th quarter.
 
I had this nice ass post about Walker done, but the board went down. Don't have it now. But, O'Brien told Walker to take those 3's. Danny Ainge thought Walker was the problem, and traded him. Now Walker is back, and O'Brien is in Philly, misusing another player, Chris Webber. I wonder where the problem was?

Walker is not really a power foreward, he isn't really a true anything. He has a lot of skills that don't really go together, which in part comes from Pitino and O'Brien constantly changing his role. O'Brien wanted Walker on the perimiter because he's a good ball handler, and the Celtics didn't have a point guard. He's a good 3 point shooter, but can not make midrange jumpshots. He can rebound, and be a decent post presence against average defenders, and can go to the net and get fouled, but he can't shoot freethrows. He's a good ball handler and a good passer. What do you do with such a player? He's a very odd duck in the world of basketball.
 
[quote name='bobo2k4']I was happy to see Memphis get swept.

But was the deal with Bonzi Wells?
Is it true that he missed the game cause he missed practice? Thats a pretty big penalty considering its playoffs.
Fratello and him must be having problems off court.
Then Eminem Jr. snaps at the reporter at the end of the game.
Hopefully Memphis falls apart and becomes worst than the Hawks.
I hate Memphis.[/QUOTE]

whose eminem junior,jason williams? Can anyone share what happened cause I missed that game. Whats funny is Kenyan Martin also snapped at a reporter I think after getting blown out in game 2. But the thing about Kenyan Martin is he looks dangerous or like a thug while I dont think Jason Williams does so much (they both have tatoos and shaved heads so you never know it could be the other way around). WHats funny is the guy whose best at snapping at reporters is Rasheed Walalce, as he promised to beat the Pacers in that game last year and did (if he hadnt the Pacers might not have been the champs).

by the way do you guys think the Kings did the right thing by trading Jason WIlliams in the first place for Bibby? (speaking of that I always wondered where they got him from since I hadnt seen him before he was on Sacramento). Personally the 2000 I think it was Season bibby was awesome, but since than hes probably worse than Jason WIlliams. Jason being the better at assists and long range shots while Bibby having the slight edge only in driving in.
 
And the refs can really fix games like Ernie Johnson was saying Vun Gundy was occusing the refs of doing. Look at the famous series between the Kings and Lakers. In those last few games the Lakers were egtting the upper hand on all the major calls. Look at game 6 where Bibby was being held and fouled by Kobbe at the end of the 4th quarter and the refs ignored the whole thing. If they reffed right the Kings would have won. Michael jordan is another example when for instacne he played the Jazz in that final bulls championship where he pushed off on bryant RUssel and there was no call. Funny thing about Bryant Russel is he isnt being used at all almost even though he still is a good player.
 
WHats weird about the Rockets is when Yao ming was doing real good and taking it strong to the basket they wouldnt go to him. He would basically have to clean up shots from other players but he wouldnt be the go to guy or like Shaq the guy whof rist touches the ball and sets up the play. GUys like Brent Barry were ballhogging the ball and forcing wild threes while Yao Ming was open and posting up begging for the ball toc ome to him. it reminded me of Vlade DIvac last season and I think the season before that as well where the Kings just stopped going to him for some reason even though he was just as good of a player as hes ever been (and they continued going to Webber who was obviously suffering from injuries).
 
[quote name='Creep']And the refs can really fix games like Ernie Johnson was saying Vun Gundy was occusing the refs of doing. Look at the famous series between the Kings and Lakers. In those last few games the Lakers were egtting the upper hand on all the major calls. Look at game 6 where Bibby was being held and fouled by Kobbe at the end of the 4th quarter and the refs ignored the whole thing. If they reffed right the Kings would have won. Michael jordan is another example when for instacne he played the Jazz in that final bulls championship where he pushed off on bryant RUssel and there was no call. Funny thing about Bryant Russel is he isnt being used at all almost even though he still is a good player.[/QUOTE]
Its true, the NBA has the worst refs of all 4 major sports. The NFL and MLB have improved that dramatically in the last decade, the NHL has always been fairly good there.

At least they got rid of Violet Palmer, she was horrible.
 
the nba is badly fixed. everyone knows it. i remember in 2000 my milwaukee bucks faced the 76ers in game 7 of the eastern confrence finals. the nba came up with some BS excuse to suspend scott williams so the bucks didnt have a pf off the bench that played D. Oh might i add that dikembe mutumbo only had 7 defensive fouls the entire series, in 7 games. gimme a break. Every foul went phillies way and any time iverson went cold there was some bogus foul that sent iverson to the line to heat up.

the nba is trash, im suprised anyone really cares.
 
[quote name='Creep']whose eminem junior,jason williams? Can anyone share what happened cause I missed that game. Whats funny is Kenyan Martin also snapped at a reporter I think after getting blown out in game 2. But the thing about Kenyan Martin is he looks dangerous or like a thug while I dont think Jason Williams does so much (they both have tatoos and shaved heads so you never know it could be the other way around). WHats funny is the guy whose best at snapping at reporters is Rasheed Walalce, as he promised to beat the Pacers in that game last year and did (if he hadnt the Pacers might not have been the champs).

by the way do you guys think the Kings did the right thing by trading Jason WIlliams in the first place for Bibby? (speaking of that I always wondered where they got him from since I hadnt seen him before he was on Sacramento). Personally the 2000 I think it was Season bibby was awesome, but since than hes probably worse than Jason WIlliams. Jason being the better at assists and long range shots while Bibby having the slight edge only in driving in.[/QUOTE]

he says a quote of his was taken out of context. It pretty much made it seem like he didn't mind losing because he could go home to his family. I'd be pissed too if I was him.
 
[quote name='Creep']And the refs can really fix games like Ernie Johnson was saying Vun Gundy was occusing the refs of doing. Look at the famous series between the Kings and Lakers. In those last few games the Lakers were egtting the upper hand on all the major calls. Look at game 6 where Bibby was being held and fouled by Kobbe at the end of the 4th quarter and the refs ignored the whole thing. If they reffed right the Kings would have won. Michael jordan is another example when for instacne he played the Jazz in that final bulls championship where he pushed off on bryant RUssel and there was no call. Funny thing about Bryant Russel is he isnt being used at all almost even though he still is a good player.[/QUOTE]

The thing is, and this is even more true in the playoffs, a lot of the games come down to the last minute. So the refs don't even have to fix the whole game they can just make those calls at the end and sway who gets the victory
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']rockets vs mavs game 5

http://www.clutchfans.net/images/headline/screwed.jpg

The story going in to Game 5 was the poor officiating in the series. That storyline is about to get much, much worse. The officials made some incredibly bad calls late in favor of Dallas, including one that proved to be the game-winner as Dallas took a 3-2 series lead with a 103-100 win. Tracy McGrady intentionally missed a free throw with 3 seconds left and got his own board and put up a desperation three, but it was just long. The refs had granted Dallas two points with 50+ seconds left when Michael Finley, standing a clear foot or two out of bounds, stripped Jon Barry and Jerry Stackhouse got the ball and the foul. Officiating in this one was sick to my stomach. Free throws were the key thing to rockets and they missed about 6 or 7 in the 4th quarter. For one thing, the mavs missed about 5 fts as well in the 4th quarter.[/QUOTE]

Even if McGrady hit that last shot, it would have only been a two pointer. His foot was on the line, and he even admitted it.

You can't say the play when Finley's foot was out of bounds cost the Rockets the game because you don't know what would have happened had they received the ball again. You just don't know.

The Rockets are about to blow a huge opportunity, but they have played us very well. A lot better than I thought they would. But in the end, I think Dallas just has too much depth for them to beat us in seven games. Dirk has stunk up the court in almost every game, yet they are getting other people stepping up and scoring.

I wonder what the series would have looked like so far had McGrady played a bad series like Dirk.
 
The reason why NBA refs "seem" like the worst is because they have the most to follow at any given time. In baseball it's much easier to follow one ball, plus there's obviously minimal contact between players in comparison to the other 3 major sports. In the NFL individual plays are run, so the game isn't constantly in motion. If I had to pick any refs as the worst I'd have to say it's the NHL refs, considering how much dirty play hockey players get away with, but perhaps that is a moot point, with the NHL looking as dead as ever at the moment.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Its true, the NBA has the worst refs of all 4 major sports. The NFL and MLB have improved that dramatically in the last decade, the NHL has always been fairly good there.

At least they got rid of Violet Palmer, she was horrible.[/QUOTE]

i'm now 100% sure that the nba has the worst refs in the 4 major sports in the US. NFL and MLB have good umpires and refs to officate the game. NFL did a good thing with instant replay since the NFL is fast pace game with 22 players on the field. MLB does well in all aspects of officiating except an occasional balls and strikes location by the home plate umpire. I don't watch hockey a lot, but i havent heard any moaning or bitchin about the refs on the ice. NBA cant officiate 10 players on the courts with 3 refs. come on now. i think pretty much in every sport, the refs or umpires would huddle up to decide the violation. last nite in the rockets vs mavs game 5 with about 5 1/2 mins left, the ref could stackhouse out-of bounds on a play in which he never touch the ball. he gave the ball over to houston. then, the refs huddled up and they reversed the decision in favor to dallas. then the famous finley was way-way out of bounds play. the refs never huddled up to discuss the play. i didnt c it at all. the game last nite felt like a 5 against 8 for the rockets. Stern needs to clean up this mess of giving star treatment to players in this league. I have been an NBA fan for good amt of years but i think i have lost credibility for this league. i'm thankful that van gundy stood up for whats right. van gundy has never said anything public unless he totally believes in it. i know he was right to call out stern and refs for the many BS calls he has seen this series. i think Stern wants to the NBA to be a TV show. he wants to get all the great ratings, money, merchandise, and etc. NBA is suppose to the place to show the greatest competition and heart to play against the best basketball players in the world. A place to watch great basketball on the floor during the game and at the end laughing and joking about it. btw here's 4 truly good reasons why stern is in such "hot water"

1. Ratings have never been lower, ever. Last year's finals was the least watched finals in history, and it had Shaq/Kobe/Malone/and GP in it.

2. He handed out 2 history making punishments this year. One against Artest and now JVG (and now trying to threat a lifetime ban to JVG? WTF)

3. He is facing a potential lockout this summer, which would be a complete joke if they didn't learn anything from the NHL. THIS WOULD BE STERN'S 2ND LOCKOUT IN ABOUT 6 YEARS?

4. And now he is trying to ban high school kids from coming into this league. HELLO!??!, David Stern should be on his knees in front of these high school kids, they saved his butt for years now, if it wasn't for Kobe, TMac, Garnett, Lebron, etc...The league would be in the dumps right now.
 
if you thought the calls in the Dallas game were bad, you should have seen some of the SA game. They were deliberately not calling things from what I saw because people were being fouled on every trip up the court (Buckner's shuffle comes to mind)
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Even if McGrady hit that last shot, it would have only been a two pointer. His foot was on the line, and he even admitted it.

You can't say the play when Finley's foot was out of bounds cost the Rockets the game because you don't know what would have happened had they received the ball again. You just don't know.

The Rockets are about to blow a huge opportunity, but they have played us very well. A lot better than I thought they would. But in the end, I think Dallas just has too much depth for them to beat us in seven games. Dirk has stunk up the court in almost every game, yet they are getting other people stepping up and scoring.

I wonder what the series would have looked like so far had McGrady played a bad series like Dirk.[/QUOTE]

If Dallas has so much depth why have they been losing practically every year in the second round for the last lke 5 or so years.
 
Things aren't looking good for Kwame's future in Washington. He's done for the series.

LINK

Portions of the article...

The Washington Wizards suspended forward Kwame Brown on Tuesday for the remainder of the playoffs.

The announcement came after Brown, coach Eddie Jordan and president of basketball operations Ernie Grunfeld met for about 10 minutes before the team's practice.

"We had some philosophical differences,'' Grunfeld said, "and we're putting those behind us and focusing on the job at hand.''

"We're not going to get into specifics. We're going to do things a certain way. These players are committed to that,'' said Grunfeld, referring to the remaining players on the roster. "And those are the type of players we want around us.''

"He's still part of our organization,'' Grunfeld said. "We'll deal with that in the offseason. He's going to be a restricted free agent in the summer, and we'll deal with that at the appropriate time.''
 
[quote name='Creep']If Dallas has so much depth why have they been losing practically every year in the second round for the last lke 5 or so years.[/QUOTE]

I never said they were deep in any other year aside from this year's team.
 
[quote name='bobo2k4']okafor - rook of year
ben - 6th man


ben was robbed or maybe not....[/QUOTE]

Ricky Davis had better stats than Gordan in every area plus he is considered a better defender. The 6th man should have gone to Davis
 
Ricky was definitely solid and all, but I suppose Ben's fourth quarter heroics gave him a few extra votes.

Should he have won? It's debatable...both Ben and Ricky's numbers are definitely comparable (especially given Ricky played around 7 minutes more per game). But when it comes to awards like this, I can see how some of the sheer IMPACT that Ben had over so many games that would change the entire dynamic of those games is what gave him the slight edge.
 
I wish I had NBATV, looks like the Pacers / Celtics game is a close one. As a loyal Knick fan, I hate rooting for the Pacers...but there's nothing more I'd like to see at this point (now that the Nets have already seen their sweep) than Boston being eliminated early on...I can root against the Pacers AFTER this series. ;) Anyway, judging by the box score, it looks like Antoine is having another one of those vintage Toine chuck-and-brick fests. Looks like Ricky Davis is doing well, though.
 
[quote name='Creep']If Dallas has so much depth why have they been losing practically every year in the second round for the last lke 5 or so years.[/QUOTE]

because they played nellie ball aganist everyone, and never had a consistent legitimate outside threat except for the time they went to the Western Conference finals (thanks to Van Exel, getting rid of him set the Mavs back immensely)
 
[quote name='jlarlee']Ricky Davis had better stats than Gordan in every area plus he is considered a better defender. The 6th man should have gone to Davis[/QUOTE]

Davis averaged 8 more minutes and the differences in stats are very small
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Davis averaged 8 more minutes and the differences in stats are very small[/QUOTE]

I'd say the fact that he played those additional 8 minutes per game is enough to justify him edging out Gordon.
 
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