2009 MLB Discussion Thread

Baseball and football are different because of the salary cap not because of steroids.

You guys seem to forget that officiating in football is atrocious compared to baseball. Baseball implemented the Questech (sp?) system that graded umpires on balls and strikes. They implemented instant replay for home run calls. I can keep going but you guys will probably find one little thing that I wasn't right about and completely dismiss my view point.
 
I agree that baseball is making strides. All officiating is bad though.. no matter the sport. I just think that NFL at least reviews the rules a little better and tries to make changes to them asap
 
Other than the Roy Williams rule, what changes have been made? I can think of a half dozen playoff games that have been affected by horrible officiating. No excessive celebration in the last Super Bowl, Tuck Rule, Giants - 49ers field goal attempt, Seahawks getting hosed against the Steelers, and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head.

Look at baseball and you see AJ Pierzinsky (sp?) and his caught third strike against the Astros and Don Denkinger's horrible call in the '85 World Series. That one cost the Cards the series and gave the Royals their one and only World Championship.

On another side note, don't be quick to declare football America's National Sport quite yet. The NFL is quickly pricing themselves into oblivion. I tried to get Colts tickets last year and nose bleeds in the corner of the upper deck were going for over 60 bucks a seat. That same money gets you into the lower level at any baseball stadium in America (well at least until the new Yankee and Shea open up).
 
[quote name='DJSteel']What factors made players inject themselves with steroids? I'm sick of the excuses. No one forced them to use the needles. You really think A-Rod, Bonds, and Clemens needed to inject themselves? To blame the fact the you used steroids to make more money and break MLB records on the media, fans, and/or ownership is a cop out. A-Rods excuse was about justifying the money he received from Texas. PLEASE! It's guaranteed money. Not like they can force you to give it back.[/quote]

I'm not justifying anybody's actions or making excuses. Just pointing out that there are multiple parties at fault. We will never understand what goes on in the psyche of these athletes. We already know A-Rod is a head case. Why else would he be banging a 50+ year old Madonna?

[quote name='DJSteel']I don't believe there is a statute of limitations on felony charges for drug possession. They proved that he used.[/quote]

I haven't been able to find whether possession with no priors is a felony in Texas, but this is straight from the Miami Herald.

• The statute of limitations for use of anabolic steroids in 2003 has passed, ESPN legal analyst Roger Cossack said. A spokesman for the Department of Justice was unable to confirm that.

 • The 1990 law said those who are caught possessing or distributing anabolic steroids are subject to arrest and prosecution, with a first conviction carrying up to one year in prison and/or a minimum $1000 fine. But that legislation makes no reference to people who test positive for steroids in an administered drug test.

''Most federal laws are tied to possession, not to use,'' said Paul Anderson, associate director of the National Sports Law Institute.

• Even beyond those two factors, ''there have not been prosecutions of athletes for simply using steroids in the United States,'' said Matt Mitten, director of the National Sports Law Institute. ``They've gone after the source of the supply, not the subject.''

Richard Pound, former president of the World Anti-Doping Agency, said unless perjury is involved, the government ``has never gone after people for this because the sentences are so low it's not worth their time or investigative energy. Their efforts are spent on perjury.''

[quote name='DJSteel']Lol.. thanks!

I never said there weren't problems with the NFL.. but at least they change their rules if they don't work. Baseball doesn't. Football is a better sport because instead of just 8-10 teams that can compete for a world title, the whole league has a chance. The economics are better for everyone involved and no guaranteed contracts. You don't have a Carlos Beltran or Adrian Beltre, who have killer hot streaks during their contract year and get huge money for it then under perform once they get the money. In football, the refs apologize and recognize their mistakes, in MLB they just toss the managers and anyone who disagrees with them even if they are wrong.[/quote]

I think we're just going to disagree on this one, but it's really a matter of taste, so nothing personal. As the poster above me mentioned, baseball has changed things to make the game more fair and exciting. Whether you believe in a salary cap or not is your own business. Honestly, all I feel the NFL has accomplished lately is making all of the teams suck equally. The league is full of teams who play sloppy football...botching plays, racking up hundreds of penalty yards, and getting fined for unsportsmanlike conduct. I don't find that very exciting.

And baseball has plenty of parity. There have been 8 different champions in the past 9 years...as opposed to the NFL, which has had only 6 different champions in the past 9 years. Like I said, it's really a matter of preference, but for me, I'll take MLB.
 
According to yahoo's tim brown, the Angels are close to signing abreau to a 1 year deal. Reported to be around $5 mill. That is less then a third of what he made last year and he had solid numbers.
 
Big money will only go to guys that put butts in the seats. Bobby Abreu is a great hitter and a mediocre outfielder. On top of that, he's the most vanilla personality you'll ever come across. He's like Sammy Sosa without any of the funny personality quirks and the roid assistance.
 
Well considering the Angels dont have the payroll of the Yankees, anyone leaving NY for Los Angeles should expect a paycut. At least he is going to the better Los Angeles team that actually has a shot of winning a World Series.

Dodgers...heh. The day they become champions in the modern era is the day that Bonds is proven not guilty of anything.
 
no abreau isn't a AAA level player, nor will he fill seats. But $5mill for a high obp, .300 avg 100 RBI guy that is slightly below avg defensively? I would put him in the same class as Milton bradley, raul ibanez (whoever the phils signed) and a tad below pat burell and if the report are true IMO it will be a steal for the angels. It will also kill the other midlevel players salary demands.

Espns podcast baseball today with eric pasquerilli (sp?) summed up my thoughts on steroids pretty much to the tee. It was about a 5 min discussion and was released this week.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']According to yahoo's tim brown, the Angels are close to signing abreau to a 1 year deal. Reported to be around $5 mill. That is less then a third of what he made last year and he had solid numbers.[/quote]

Yep, its official. What a fucking steal for the Halos.

Hey wow, wanna start up a fantasy baseball league? I think this is the year where Yahoo starts the new thing where public leagues can have keepers for free.
 
Hate baseball, hate Letterman but I found this hilarious bit off another forum. lool

Letterman's Top Ten.

Top 10 messages left on Alex Rodriguez's voice mail after the news became public.

10. "Hey, it's Mark McGwire. Want to get together this week and not talk about the past?"

9. "Joe Torre here -- thanks for helping book sales"

8. "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?"

7. "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?"

6. "It's Bernie Madoff. Nice try but I'm still the most hated man in New York"

5. "Michael Phelps here. Got any snacks?"

4. "This is Sammy Sosa. Just pretend you don't speak English"

3. "Michael Phelps again. Did I call you or did you call me?"

2. "Hey, it's Rod Blagojevich -- I'll say you're innocent, if you say I am"

1. "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?"

__________________
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']Hate baseball, hate Letterman but I found this hilarious bit off another forum. lool

Letterman's Top Ten.

Top 10 messages left on Alex Rodriguez's voice mail after the news became public.

10. "Hey, it's Mark McGwire. Want to get together this week and not talk about the past?"

9. "Joe Torre here -- thanks for helping book sales"

8. "Could you find a steroid that keeps you from choking in the playoffs?"

7. "Are you worried this will taint all the championships you didn't win?"

6. "It's Bernie Madoff. Nice try but I'm still the most hated man in New York"

5. "Michael Phelps here. Got any snacks?"

4. "This is Sammy Sosa. Just pretend you don't speak English"

3. "Michael Phelps again. Did I call you or did you call me?"

2. "Hey, it's Rod Blagojevich -- I'll say you're innocent, if you say I am"

1. "It's Madonna. You got a phone number for Jeter?"

__________________[/QUOTE]


That is pretty good.
 
Wow, apparently Bud Selig is saying he's "just heartsick" about A-Rod's steroid admission and is considering punishing him. Even though the positive test result was not punishable because of the terms of the test, Alex ADMITTING to it apparently can be punished...which includes altering the record book. I'm sorry, but if Selig does that, he needs to be fired.

It's complete horseshit that Alex is going to have something taken away basically for choosing to not be a liar. Yet Bonds HR records will stand, as will Clemens' Cy Young awards. If that doesn't send the wrong message, I don't know what will. I guess Selig wanted Alex to lie about it so it wouldn't "tarnish the game". Just keep half-assing it Bud. Only punish some of the people, some of the time. That makes sense...
 
I love how everyone is saying steroids are ruining baseball.. how about imposing a salary cap? Jesus.. baseball has been second rate to football for decades. Let me know when the pirates are in the playoffs, I might have a heart attack.
 
[quote name='Calamityuponthee']I love how everyone is saying steroids are ruining baseball.. how about imposing a salary cap? Jesus.. baseball has been second rate to football for decades. Let me know when the pirates are in the playoffs, I might have a heart attack.[/QUOTE]


at this point most Pirates fans have given up.. it just sucks that the only way they can get fans out to PNC Park is fireworks or bobbleheads... and it's sad that the last winning season was 15 yrs ago..
 
[quote name='DJSteel']at this point most Pirates fans have given up.. it just sucks that the only way they can get fans out to PNC Park is fireworks or bobbleheads... and it's sad that the last winning season was 15 yrs ago..[/quote]

There are plenty of football teams who have the same problem. Look at the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions. And like I said before, 8 different World Series champions in 9 years. You can win with less money, but poor management will never win. The problem with many of the small market teams is that their owners are not investing back into the team. Money received from the luxury tax is being pocketed.
 
Buffalo and Detroit huh...

Detroit's last winning season was 2000, Buffalo's was 2004.. when was the last time the Pirates had a winning season?? How about the Royals?
 
2003 was the last time for the royals to have a winning season. Before that it was 1994 but they currently have a solid base of players.

Adam dunn signed a 2 year deal with the nationals for $20 mill.
 
Couldn't we say the same thing about the Marlins, the Rockies, etc? They all won (or got to the ws) with marginal payrolls.
 
[quote name='lordwow']Couldn't we say the same thing about the Marlins, the Rockies, etc? They all won (or got to the ws) with marginal payrolls.[/QUOTE]

looking more like luck.. Do you think the Rays will make the playoffs this year??
 
Did you see Oswalt's comments about the A-Rod situation today? He was pissed saying that A-Rod's cheating could've cost him money and was basically saying his stats shouldn't count.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']looking more like luck.. Do you think the Rays will make the playoffs this year??[/quote]

Most analysts do. I don't get you man. You come off as though you just hate baseball. Why do you even post in this thread?

[quote name='Chitown021']Did you see Oswalt's comments about the A-Rod situation today? He was pissed saying that A-Rod's cheating could've cost him money and was basically saying his stats shouldn't count.[/quote]

Yeah...I really think MLB needs to get off the fence on this issue. Either release all the names and wipe out McGwire's, Bonds', and Clemens' stats/records as well, or just tell everybody to shut the hell up and move on. It's getting ridiculous that we've got players (Oswalt, Schilling, etc.) making demands now.

It is sickening though that A-Rod's name being brought up is the one to cause all these reactions. People are acting like he's the only one who ever used steroids. How many times has Oswalt even faced Alex??? What about all those at bats against Barry Bonds? McGwire has been retired for 7 years, and he probably still has more at bats against Oswalt than A-Rod. This thing gets more stupid by the day. Who's steering this ship Bud?
 
LOL at Bud's latest comments. Here we are almost a decade later and NOW he wants to try and punish A-Rod. Sorry, you and all of the owners knew this was happening but you turned your heads because the cash register kept ringing...

Did I just hear right? Bud Selig is considering re-instating Hank Aaron as the HR king because of all of the roids?


I think ESPN ran the stats on Oswalt vs. A-Rod and he was like 3-8 career off of him with one HR.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Did you see Oswalt's comments about the A-Rod situation today? He was pissed saying that A-Rod's cheating could've cost him money and was basically saying his stats shouldn't count.[/QUOTE]
A lot of clean players feel this way and I'm glad someone finally had the balls to speak up.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']looking more like luck.. Do you think the Rays will make the playoffs this year??[/quote]


if it was luck, why do the pirates not get any. The marlins were competitive last year and made some big moves and have loads of young talent. They could compete again this year. As for the rays...

IMO the rays will finish at worst in 3rd place in the al east and they might do that with 87 or so wins. They could also take first. They have some big questions in the bullpen. Their middle relief was incredible last year, and it is highly unlikely that they all will have repeat performances. They also have an issue with closer, as percival won't start the season with them and who knows how he will last throughout the season. Moving wheeler into the closer role may hurt their middle relief. Offensively they should be better. Upton and crawford should play better then they did. Joyce is an improvement over heinske or whoever else they trouted out there. Pat burrell is going to be a huge upgrade at DH. Navaro numbers may/should drop, but considering the potential improvements they made either through trade/FA signing or health improvements they should be better. They may have issues in the starting rotation. A lot of there starters went way over their career previous highs for IP. They may have a setback this year (much like john lester) or they may not. Price is a wildcard. Some stats have him projected around .500 with roughly 15 starts. The 411 crew on MLB.com has him around 200ip, with 17 wins and more then a k an inn. They feel he will be better earlier in his career then later due to him already being a fully developed player. Who know?

The yanks made big investments, but I don't see all that much improvement. They lost abreau and giambi and brought in texeria. Texeria can't replace 2 guys that hit a shitload of homers and drove in a bunch of runs and both had high obp % in 2 spots in the lineup. I also don't think that cc will be as dominate pitcher in the al east as he was in the NL central. He also started horrible last year in clevand. In good news wang, their former ace will now be slotted in the 3 hole, and petite their former #2 will be in the 4 or 5 hole. They have a deep rotation, but if anyone gets hurt their is a big dropoff to the replacements. Their middle relief is mediocre and at some point rivera's arm will fall off.

The redsox have 2 big ? in their middle of their order. Is ortiz at the end of his career or does he still have juice left in him. Will he be able to get over the fact mentally that manny is no longer protecting him. Can lowell bounce back from surgery. I can only imagine that variteks offensive numbers will go up, cause can they really go down any lower. Bard is an improvement over cash and will get more playing time thus lightining the load on varitek. They have a deep rotation with plenty of arms to fill in if someone is hurt or isn't performing. But can beckett be the man of 07 or is he the inconsitent pticher of 08 or the horrible pitcher of 06. Can dice k pitch more efficiently and lighten the load of the bullpen. Will lester take a step back due to his ip last year. Their bullpen is loaded with talent.

Any way you look at it, it should be a great race in the AL east.
 
there probably will be 3 to 4 leagues setup before the start of the season. Most likely they will start signups late febuary/early march. Then there is usually another league or 2 setup later for those that didn't signup in time the first go around.
 
I can't say that the Marlins, DRays, and Rockies were sucessful just because they got lucky. They all had/have solid management that wisely used draft picks and waiver wire acquisitions to build contenders.

That being said, a salary cap would be in baseball's best interest. Otherwise, the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, and Dodgers will continue to dominate.

What kills me is that the Dodgers still can't decide if they're a big market team or a middle market. I think the stink of Kevin Brown and Darren Dreifort will continue to hang over the organization like a black cloud.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']looking more like luck.. Do you think the Rays will make the playoffs this year??[/QUOTE]

I think the Rays will have a second consecutive winning season, but will miss out on a Wild Card chance for the playoffs. Though if the Rays play the Red Sox like they did last year, we could be in for a heck of an upset if it comes down to a tie break.

The Yankees I would love to see not in the playoffs again to prove blockbuster players don't make a team, but even I must admit the potential talent they brought in should not miss out on the playoffs this year.

The one team I would look to rebound this year are the Indians. They didn't do much in the offseason (Kerry Wood isnt something to brag about) but they can only go up from what was an extremely disappointing season last year to make for a boring divisional race. Usually the AL Central is the most exciting division to watch at the end of the season (despite last years tie break between Twins and White Sox) but having three teams fight for it instead of two is much more exciting.
 
The Indians had some big injuries last year. They played really well at the end of the season. They need victor Martinez to be healthy and for haftner to return to form. If that happens they should take the central. And wood is far better then what they had closing.
 
It's not the bats that I think will not produce like last year.. but much like the Indians, Rockies, Marlins, etc.. the pitching just won't perform the same..
 
[quote name='depascal22']That being said, a salary cap would be in baseball's best interest. Otherwise, the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, and Dodgers will continue to dominate. [/quote]
Wut?

How do the Dodgers dominate? The NL West is relatively even, in regards to winning the division.
 
I looked it up and was suprised, the dodgers were at $125 mil last year. They currently are at $83 mil approx right now. $125 is in the ballpark of the sox and mets and if they are big spenders...
 
[quote name='ryanbph']2003 was the last time for the royals to have a winning season. Before that it was 1994 but they currently have a solid base of players.

Adam dunn signed a 2 year deal with the nationals for $20 mill.[/QUOTE]

Im surprised at the Dunn signing. I thought he would definitley go to the Dodgers. I thought he wanted to win but i guess he wanted to get paid. Say Hello to your new Cincinatti Reds hehe. Bowden really wants his old reds squad back huh. Wagner,Kearns,Dunn,Young, who else am i missing?
 
I think I heard it in a MLB.com video, but dunn didn't want to go to Washington. There just wasn't any other offers on the table. The washington offer was on the table for over a month and he was holding out for another team. With spring training here, he took the washington offer.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I think I heard it in a MLB.com video, but dunn didn't want to go to Washington. There just wasn't any other offers on the table. The washington offer was on the table for over a month and he was holding out for another team. With spring training here, he took the washington offer.[/QUOTE]

yeah i can see that. Well that still leaves alot of big names without work and some are quality. Juan Cruz,Will Ohman,Orlando Hudson....i wonder if these guys should be taking 1 yr deals just to get themselves off the market and try to prepare again for the next off season.
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']Im surprised at the Dunn signing. I thought he would definitley go to the Dodgers. I thought he wanted to win but i guess he wanted to get paid. Say Hello to your new Cincinatti Reds hehe. Bowden really wants his old reds squad back huh. Wagner,Kearns,Dunn,Young, who else am i missing?[/quote]

Wily Mo Pena. Probably a few others, but yeah he brought all the Reds together.
 
It's like getting all the old members of Candlebox together while forgetting that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and pretty much any other band from the 90s was much better.
 
for the redox, allegedly ellsbury showed up thicker/more cut (which considering how thin he was it might not be much) and ortiz showed up trimmer. In bad news, jd drews back has been stiff off and on all offseason. While I would love for him to contribute, if he doesn't play in enough games due to prior injuries I believe the sox can cut him after this year.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']for the redox, allegedly ellsbury showed up thicker/more cut (which considering how thin he was it might not be much) and ortiz showed up trimmer. In bad news, jd drews back has been stiff off and on all offseason. While I would love for him to contribute, if he doesn't play in enough games due to prior injuries I believe the sox can cut him after this year.[/quote]

Thats good to hear about Ellsbury and Ortiz. Hopefully they can contribute a lot to the team. Drew's back hopefully just means a few games off a week, to let Kotsay and Baldelli get some games played. The WBC can't get here soon enough, I need some baseball.
 
Ortiz made a nice comment about giving people a year ban for roids.
That works for me since they won't remove records.
 
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