2009 MLB Discussion Thread

[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Yes, at least us baseball fans have the MLB Network for this entire offseason this year. They are suppose to have a lot of new programming. I am sure they are looking to stay strong, this being their first full offseason on the air. They don't wanna completely bomb.[/QUOTE]

I love baseball like the rest of you guys. i enjoyed the playoffs this year because of great baseball and players who weren't clutch became clutch. it was great site to see. i am just glad for us met fans that our nightmare has officially ended and hoping for a miracle that they bring us out of it.
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Don't forget about the firecracker incident.[/QUOTE]

haha how can i now. Saberhagen chucking one under a table and almost hitting reporters or when dumbass coleman threw one outta the bus window nailing 3 people. good times lol
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Yes, at least us baseball fans have the MLB Network for this entire offseason this year. They are suppose to have a lot of new programming. I am sure they are looking to stay strong, this being their first full offseason on the air. They don't wanna completely bomb.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that will be nice. Hopefully it's not just the same old game for a week. I really hope we get some live events, like Saturday's Arizona Fall League game (believe it's the championship or something big like that). I'll take Dominican Baseball, Caribbean World Series, and Mexican Leagues.
 
Yep, AFL All-Star Game ("Rising Stars") this Saturday at 8PM. Also, if you hate the Yankees, don't turn on MLB Network at all that day before the game. They are running World Series Highlights of nothing but Yankee victories.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']I should just ignore Wolfpac, since all he does is ignore the fact that the Red Sox aren't the only team to have had users on their teams.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if he thinks Jeffrey Maier tainted their 96 season. I won't even ask about Clemens pitching on the 99 and 00 WS teams. I don't think he's old enough to remember who either of those people are though.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I wonder if he thinks Jeffrey Maier tainted their 96 season. I won't even ask about Clemens pitching on the 99 and 00 WS teams. I don't think he's old enough to remember who either of those people are though.[/QUOTE]


Hmmmmm, I was 16 back in 1996 so I can give you the history lesson. Was the Maier call a bad call? Sure. I still like to think the ball would have hit off the top of the wall on the Jeter fly off of Benetiz.

Couple of things regarding the 1996 ALCS. Baltimore came out and won game 2 in NY. Mussina had a 2-1 lead in the top of the 8th in game 3 with 2 outs and nobody on. Jeter, Bernie, Tino and Fielder all got hits to make it a 5-2 win. Strawberry went on to hit 3 homeruns out of the 7 hit by the Yankees in games 4 and 5 in Baltimore. Baltimore had a chance to take a 2-1 series lead with the next 2 at home. So no Maier didn't taint the 96 team.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Of course I did. :D I'm not begrudging Yankees fans their title, they have a right to be happy and boast. I wouldn't be much of a fan if seeing the bitter rival celebrate a title didn't depress me though, would I?[/QUOTE]

Haha, well it's good for you to have that attitude. But you can imagine how agonizing it's been as a Yankee fan for the last 8 years. 2001, 2002, and 2003 hurt, but 2004 was devastation of a new kind. It's taken this long for the team to regain its soul.

But it's ridiculous how petty (not to mention ignorant) people get with this stuff. I tried looking at the ESPN Yankees board this morning, and it was just a mess of "well I guess you bought your championship" and "umps gave it to the Yankees to increase revenue" posts. So stupid. The Yanks finally put together a good TEAM this year, and all it does is bring out the trolls.

[quote name='wildcpac']Hmmmmm, I was 16 back in 1996 so I can give you the history lesson. Was the Maier call a bad call? Sure. I still like to think the ball would have hit off the top of the wall on the Jeter fly off of Benetiz.

Couple of things regarding the 1996 ALCS. Baltimore came out and won game 2 in NY. Mussina had a 2-1 lead in the top of the 8th in game 3 with 2 outs and nobody on. Jeter, Bernie, Tino and Fielder all got hits to make it a 5-2 win. Strawberry went on to hit 3 homeruns out of the 7 hit by the Yankees in games 4 and 5 in Baltimore. Baltimore had a chance to take a 2-1 series lead with the next 2 at home. So no Maier didn't taint the 96 team.[/QUOTE]

While I agree with this last point you just made, can you drop the fucking steroid crap??? Nobody gives a shit about steroids. Unless you're going to strip every team of every championship for the past 20 years, you're just being a dumbass.

Of course it's normal for Yankee fans to hate on the Sox, but Jesus, do it about something relevent like Papelbon being a choke artist, or Ortiz for not being able to hit his weight anymore. Or Varitek, who can barely hit his IQ but "handles the pitching staff so well". There are plenty of things to rip on the Sox for without turning it into a "you're a cheater!" finger pointing contest.
 
That ball would have never left the yard. It didn't win the series for the Yankees but it changed it completely. That was another great great run through the WS by the Yanks. Down 2-0 and losing in Game 3 to the mighty (or not so mighty as history has decided) Braves. If pitching wins championships then how the hell did Atlanta only win 1 with Maddox, Smoltz and Glavine (all first-ballot Hall of Famers) in the same freaking rotation???

I wonder what Jim Leyritz is up to these days... ;)
 
Does Jimmy Rollins know when to stop saying dumb shit? First, he predicts the Phils in five. I mean, you don't expect a player to say his team is gonna lose, but a real, smart pro dodges that question. He doesn't make predictions. Then, after Game 2, when the Phils made Rivera work for that 2 inning save, he said that they "saw something" against him. That obviously wasn't the case, because no one, including Rollins, really did much against him after that. He was 0-3 with two weak pop-ups and a fly out. Then, after the game last night, he said the Phillies were still the better team, that the Yankees merely executed. Well, Jimmy, that makes the Yankees the better team.

And I definitely did like that Jeter threw Rollins' prediction back in his face last night. That's kind of uncharacteristic of Jeter. He usually just throws cliches around and uses his head when speaking to the media, unlike Rollins.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Then, after the game last night, he said the Phillies were still the better team, that the Yankees merely executed. Well, Jimmy, that makes the Yankees the better team.[/QUOTE]

He said that? Jeez, just stop J Roll, you're making the team look bad. I would expect Victorino to carry his assholeishness off the field and make comments like that, but not Jimmy. At least the guys with talent on the team know their Ps and Qs.
 
I'm not sure which is worse arrogant Yankee fans puffing out thier chests when they win a word series, or massholes puffing out thiers when they do. Either way I hate it.
 
[quote name='vrs1650']I'm not sure which is worse arrogant Yankee fans puffing out thier chests when they win a word series, or massholes puffing out thiers when they do. Either way I hate it.[/QUOTE]

Well, not everyone can choke in the NLCS two years running. How's Joe Torre workin out for ya? :)
 
Again, Congrats to the Yankees. Best baseball team this year, and possibly next if they keep it up.

From a diehard Sox fan.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Hmmmmm, I was 16 back in 1996 so I can give you the history lesson. Was the Maier call a bad call? Sure. I still like to think the ball would have hit off the top of the wall on the Jeter fly off of Benetiz.

Couple of things regarding the 1996 ALCS. Baltimore came out and won game 2 in NY. Mussina had a 2-1 lead in the top of the 8th in game 3 with 2 outs and nobody on. Jeter, Bernie, Tino and Fielder all got hits to make it a 5-2 win. Strawberry went on to hit 3 homeruns out of the 7 hit by the Yankees in games 4 and 5 in Baltimore. Baltimore had a chance to take a 2-1 series lead with the next 2 at home. So no Maier didn't taint the 96 team.[/QUOTE]
And Roger Clemens didn't taint 99 and 00?
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Well, not everyone can choke in the NLCS two years running. How's Joe Torre workin out for ya? :)[/QUOTE]

rather have choked in the playoffs two years than choke 2 seasons ;)
 
Its a low risk high reward move, but a lot of these haven't worked out for the Sox. Baldelli might've had better upside than your typical 4th OF but he was completely unsuited for that role. Sometimes you have to stop thinking like a fantasy owner and just get a veteran role player.

A decent left handed bat off the bench won't hurt though, and he'll get his share of at bats against righties once J.D. Drew goes on the 60 day DL again.

Tampa Bay just gave away Iwamura, that WS run was a one time deal. They're pathetic once again.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Its a low risk high reward move, but a lot of these haven't worked out for the Sox. Baldelli might've had better upside than your typical 4th OF but he was completely unsuited for that role. Sometimes you have to stop thinking like a fantasy owner and just get a veteran role player.

A decent left handed bat off the bench won't hurt though, and he'll get his share of at bats against righties once J.D. Drew goes on the 60 day DL again.[/QUOTE]

HAHA! I love it!

And so the Hot Stove is already heating up.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']HAHA! I love it!

And so the Hot Stove is already heating up.[/QUOTE]

79 filed for FA including notables..lackey,delgado,and holliday amongst others.So unless the mets make a move for a first basemen...looks like we go in to the season with Murphy at first........not sure i am really happy with that..but its only a start.

Matsui's bat going to Hall of Fame also.
 
Funny Letterman tonight with Posada, Pettitte, Jeter and Godzilla!

Mets should have went hard last year after Teixera and not picked up the option on Delgado. The best young 1st basemen aren't going to be available in for awhile (Fielder and AGon). Mets have to go after Lackey and Bay or Holliday this off season. And try to offer some package for Halladay from the Blue Jays. Santana, Halladay and Lackey for a front 3 with a lineup of Bay or Holliday, Beltran, Wright and Reyes should be able to compete with the Phillies/Marlins and Braves.
 
HAHA! Didn't even know that, but they had clips on YouTube.

As far as your Mets go, int, they really need to make an immediate splash. They need a big signing prior to Christmas, in my opinion, or else it's gonna turn into a pitchfork and torch party outside of Citi Field. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 1st base situation. I really doubt they are gonna cart Murphy out there 140 games, unless they make some really big splashes elsewhere, so that they can sort of hide his lack of power. If Delgado ends up not liking the offers elsewhere, you could see him sign a one-year, incentive-laden contract.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']Well, not everyone can choke in the NLCS two years running. How's Joe Torre workin out for ya? :)[/QUOTE]
The Dodgers hadn't won a playoff series in 20 years before Joe. In fact, we'd won exactly ONE playoff game in those 20 years. We've gotten 8 postseason wins in the last 2 years under Joe. And Joe hasn't missed the playoffs in how long? We sucked against Philly, but we swept the Cards and our problem certainly isn't Joe. Sour grapes what?

To match the Yanks recent history, the Dodgers would have had to been eliminated in the first round (05-07), not even getting to the NLCS. If we wanted to measure up, we'd probably have to go up 3-0 on our arch rivals in the NLCS and then get punked in 7 (setting a record) as well.

Beyond the Box Score has a killer analysis of the strike zone for any nerds into that kind of stuff.

edit: Adios Putz.
 
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[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']HAHA! Didn't even know that, but they had clips on YouTube.

As far as your Mets go, int, they really need to make an immediate splash. They need a big signing prior to Christmas, in my opinion, or else it's gonna turn into a pitchfork and torch party outside of Citi Field. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 1st base situation. I really doubt they are gonna cart Murphy out there 140 games, unless they make some really big splashes elsewhere, so that they can sort of hide his lack of power. If Delgado ends up not liking the offers elsewhere, you could see him sign a one-year, incentive-laden contract.[/QUOTE]

i hear ya. In fact i hope Delgado goes elsewhere. If the mets offer him salary arbitration and he declines and signs on with another team...we get an additional pick to re-supply the empty farm..although jenry meija has been looking great so far. I think the mets first two priorities are LF and pitching. If the offense can rebound..we wont have to count so much on murphy unlike this year. plus Ike Davis has also been terrific in the fall league..so i think the mets will count on him to take over 1B when he is ready.

[quote name='speedracer']The Dodgers hadn't won a playoff series in 20 years before Joe. In fact, we'd won exactly ONE playoff game in those 20 years. We've gotten 8 postseason wins in the last 2 years under Joe. And Joe hasn't missed the playoffs in how long? We sucked against Philly, but we swept the Cards and our problem certainly isn't Joe. Sour grapes what?

To match the Yanks recent history, the Dodgers would have had to been eliminated in the first round (05-07), not even getting to the NLCS. If we wanted to measure up, we'd probably have to go up 3-0 on our arch rivals in the NLCS and then get punked in 7 (setting a record) as well.

Beyond the Box Score has a killer analysis of the strike zone for any nerds into that kind of stuff.

edit: Adios Putz.[/QUOTE]

ill be reading that later thanks..and dont really care about Putz leaving. the idea was there but the execution wasn't..plus Feliciano has been terrific in the pen so he might as well be set up. no need to have an expensive set up guy that has tons of injury problems.

edit:
and the trades and declines keep coming lol

Twins deal Carlos Gomez and get J.J Hardy in return from the Brewers
White Sox decline the option on Jermaine Dye
D'Backs pick up option on Webb for 2010.
 
That's definitely a good risk to take. Webb's a guy who always made 30+ starts. I know shoulder injuries are always the worst thing that happen to a pitcher, and you just never know if things are gonna work out, but I'd want him back if I were the DBacks.
 
I heard Bay, Baldeli and that Met's reliever dude filed for free agent.
I was hoping the Sox weren't going to give up on Bay. He was great in Boston and would be worth every penny.
 
They may have to pay Bay because he's the best player available but he's not worth the $100 million he's probably seeking. There just aren't any great power hitters on the market this year.

Maybe they could sign Jermaine Dye for 1 year and make a run at Joe Mauer in 2011 but Dye, Lowell, and Papi on the same team? Next year would suck.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']I heard Bay, Baldeli and that Met's reliever dude filed for free agent.
I was hoping the Sox weren't going to give up on Bay. He was great in Boston and would be worth every penny.[/QUOTE]

I'm surprise on Baldeli's end. He is useless as a 4th OF with his illness. Good if he plays sparingly. But I guess he is odd man out with Brian Anderson and now Hermida in the OF. That and hopefully Holliday or Bay manning LF.

Reliever you are thinking of is probably Wagner. Hope arbitration is offered to him and Bay. I'm pretty sure it will be. That's 4 "free" 1st round picks, depending on where they sign and who else that team has signed. Too bad the Met's, assuming they sign Bay, pick is protected.

[quote name='dafoomie']They may have to pay Bay because he's the best player available but he's not worth the $100 million he's probably seeking. There just aren't any great power hitters on the market this year.

Maybe they could sign Jermaine Dye for 1 year and make a run at Joe Mauer in 2011 but Dye, Lowell, and Papi on the same team? Next year would suck.[/QUOTE]

I'd say Holliday is the best available, but hasn't proven he can play in Boston. I think that's the biggest issue, outside of Boras, with signing him. I think if Dye was an option, they should just stick with Reddick.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']I'm surprise on Baldeli's end. He is useless as a 4th OF with his illness. Good if he plays sparingly. But I guess he is odd man out with Brian Anderson and now Hermida in the OF. That and hopefully Holliday or Bay manning LF.

Reliever you are thinking of is probably Wagner. Hope arbitration is offered to him and Bay. I'm pretty sure it will be. That's 4 "free" 1st round picks, depending on where they sign and who else that team has signed. Too bad the Met's, assuming they sign Bay, pick is protected.



I'd say Holliday is the best available, but hasn't proven he can play in Boston. I think that's the biggest issue, outside of Boras, with signing him. I think if Dye was an option, they should just stick with Reddick.[/QUOTE]

Mets are going to have some decisions to make.....They could get picks back if Schnieder,Delgado, and Sheffield all get offered arbitration and sign on with other teams. I wouldn't mind having Bay back in a mets uniform.Its one prospect they should have never gave up on....but they also or hopefully want to make a push to sign Lackey as they need pitching more than a LF. Brad Hawpe is out there too and if the mets can sign him.maybe we convert him to a LF and have Francouer stick at RF.

the sox could do the same with hawpe who i think would command mid level....but who knows..this year's free agency crop is really nothing to gawk at.

in other news,

Brett "wife beater" Myers option was declined, so more phillies for him
Man Ram staying a dodger
Ardolis Chapman considering Mets or Yanks
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']Mets are going to have some decisions to make.....They could get picks back if Schnieder,Delgado, and Sheffield all get offered arbitration and sign on with other teams. I wouldn't mind having Bay back in a mets uniform.Its one prospect they should have never gave up on....but they also or hopefully want to make a push to sign Lackey as they need pitching more than a LF. Brad Hawpe is out there too and if the mets can sign him.maybe we convert him to a LF and have Francouer stick at RF.

the sox could do the same with hawpe who i think would command mid level....but who knows..this year's free agency crop is really nothing to gawk at.

in other news,

Brett "wife beater" Myers option was declined, so more phillies for him
Man Ram staying a dodger
Ardolis Chapman considering Mets or Yanks[/QUOTE]


Mets are going to have to deal with the crying on WFan if they do not sign anybody this off season. Every host on WFan is a Mets fan except for Francesa. Callers and Benigno, Roberts, Paige, Boomer and Carton are going to kill the Mets if they do not do anything.

I am not a Mets fan but I realize that the Mets have to do the following.

1. Trade for Halladay.
2. Sign Lackey
3. Sign Bay or Holliday

The Phillies are going to be even better next year than this year. Hamels and Lidge cannot be any worse than 2009. They are going to have Cliff Lee for the full season. Happ should be the #3. Ruiz is turning into a borderline star catcher and Utley/Rollins/Howard/Werth/Victorino are still young. The only dropoff I picture is Ibanez.

Marlins have a good young team that is only improving year in and year out. The Braves had a slow start, a bad week final week, no production from Chipper their highest paid player and still won 88 games.

Next year can easily be more of the same if the Mets do not improve the 2-3 of their rotation and LF/catcher/first base.
 
More hardware for the Yankees: GGs for Jeter and Tex. I'm sure people are gonna lose their minds over Jeter winning another GG, but oh well. Plenty of people have won this award for reasons other than being the best fielder, so I see on issue here.

Anybody catch what Boras said about how the Yankees should treat Damon? Basically, he thinks he should receive the same kind of contract that Jeter would. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']More hardware for the Yankees: GGs for Jeter and Tex. I'm sure people are gonna lose their minds over Jeter winning another GG, but oh well. Plenty of people have won this award for reasons other than being the best fielder, so I see on issue here.

Anybody catch what Boras said about how the Yankees should treat Damon? Basically, he thinks he should receive the same kind of contract that Jeter would. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.[/QUOTE]


Jeter can at least play defense and isn't breaking down. Damon is still a very good offensive player. Damon should get the same kind of deal maybe less of what Abreu received.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Mets are going to have to deal with the crying on WFan if they do not sign anybody this off season. Every host on WFan is a Mets fan except for Francesa. Callers and Benigno, Roberts, Paige, Boomer and Carton are going to kill the Mets if they do not do anything.

I am not a Mets fan but I realize that the Mets have to do the following.

1. Trade for Halladay.
2. Sign Lackey
3. Sign Bay or Holliday

The Phillies are going to be even better next year than this year. Hamels and Lidge cannot be any worse than 2009. They are going to have Cliff Lee for the full season. Happ should be the #3. Ruiz is turning into a borderline star catcher and Utley/Rollins/Howard/Werth/Victorino are still young. The only dropoff I picture is Ibanez.

Marlins have a good young team that is only improving year in and year out. The Braves had a slow start, a bad week final week, no production from Chipper their highest paid player and still won 88 games.

Next year can easily be more of the same if the Mets do not improve the 2-3 of their rotation and LF/catcher/first base.[/QUOTE]

yeah i hear all the bitching and moaning when i listen to the fan, its quite funny hearing trade proposals from some fans. Makes no sense to me. anyway

I dont think the mets have enough to trade for halladay. If its for prospects, than its going to have to consist of Ike Davis,Jenry Meija,Reese Havens,Brad Holt..and money..than we have to sign him long term.

I think Lackey is the more likley option. as Neyer said, he is becoming more bullet proof..its just his health is a continuing question..and thats something the mets dont want to deal with. Personally i would just settle for Lackey and try my hardest to bring in Randy Wolf. that way you can send Pelfry to 4 and have maine,perez,and niese duke it out for the final spot.

as much as i wish for holliday or bay, i dont see both of them coming. I think Bay's success in the AL and I think the sox will push really hard for him. I dont see Holliday either. I dont think the mets are willing to pay his exorbitant fee (6 years 17 Million per).

This is what i kind of see and want
C- Barajas/Hernandez/
Torrealba(although obviously he is still pissed at us)
LF- Hawpe or any other OF that is cheaper than bay and Holliday
P- Lackey and Wolf
1B- Chad Tracy to platoon with Murphy and he can come cheap

and anyone that can replace sean green.

i know there is more but this is off the top of my head.



[quote name='wildcpac']Jeter can at least play defense and isn't breaking down. Damon is still a very good offensive player. Damon should get the same kind of deal maybe less of what Abreu received.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the abreu deal. He for sure should know his end is near. plus what would you guys do with Jeter. he is in the last year of his deal. Do you lock him up longterm or do you start finding your new franchise SS now and try to make him sign short term. what would you guys do?
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']yeah i hear all the bitching and moaning when i listen to the fan, its quite funny hearing trade proposals from some fans. Makes no sense to me. anyway

I dont think the mets have enough to trade for halladay. If its for prospects, than its going to have to consist of Ike Davis,Jenry Meija,Reese Havens,Brad Holt..and money..than we have to sign him long term.

I think Lackey is the more likley option. as Neyer said, he is becoming more bullet proof..its just his health is a continuing question..and thats something the mets dont want to deal with. Personally i would just settle for Lackey and try my hardest to bring in Randy Wolf. that way you can send Pelfry to 4 and have maine,perez,and niese duke it out for the final spot.

as much as i wish for holliday or bay, i dont see both of them coming. I think Bay's success in the AL and I think the sox will push really hard for him. I dont see Holliday either. I dont think the mets are willing to pay his exorbitant fee (6 years 17 Million per).

This is what i kind of see and want
C- Barajas/Hernandez/
Torrealba(although obviously he is still pissed at us)
LF- Hawpe or any other OF that is cheaper than bay and Holliday
P- Lackey and Wolf
1B- Chad Tracy to platoon with Murphy and he can come cheap

and anyone that can replace sean green.

i know there is more but this is off the top of my head.





I agree with the abreu deal. He for sure should know his end is near. plus what would you guys do with Jeter. he is in the last year of his deal. Do you lock him up longterm or do you start finding your new franchise SS now and try to make him sign short term. what would you guys do?[/QUOTE]


Not to say you are wrong but your wants/what you think the Mets are going to do is not going to compete for the NL East. The Phillies are just too good and the Braves/Marlins are another year older and better. That lineup/rotation has 85 wins max written all over it.

Jeter is a funny case. I picture him getting 4-5 years for 100 million. He just put up his 3rd best hitting year in terms of OPS Plus as a 35 year old. His MVP caliber years in 1999 and 2006 are the only seasons in 14 years that were better. His defense has improved leaps and bounds and his off season workout regime is well known. The only problem is that he is going to be 36 next year and his body is going to slowdown in terms of healing/movement.

Their aren't any real good young SS's anywhere to replace him with in the near future. Maybe the Yankees will wait for Hanley Ramirez to hit free agency if he ever does. If the Yankees have to move Derek to LF/RF/DH at the end so be it. They cannot afford the public pr nightmare if he goes to another team or is forced into retirement. I also do not picture Derek pulling a Griffey, Biggio, Pedro and playing after he is no longer good-great.
 
The Jeter situation has Bernie Williams written all over it. I think he will get a 3 year deal for $60M which will be fine but it's the next one that I'm concerned about - at 38 the Yanks surely aren't going to want him as their starting shortstop. He doesn't hit for enough power to be a DH and I have reservations over whether he can play OF.

The Mets need to blow it up - this core obviously can't win it all. Keep Wright, Santana, K-Rod and Beltran and get rid of everyone else.
 
I definitely think Jeter pretty much gets a blank check. He's the face of the franchise and despite his age, still one of the best SS in the league. As you said, wild, they would rather have the last year or two of a deal look bad than have him go elsewhere and win. Jeter should definitely be a Yankee until the day he retires.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']I definitely think Jeter pretty much gets a blank check. He's the face of the franchise and despite his age, still one of the best SS in the league. As you said, wild, they would rather have the last year or two of a deal look bad than have him go elsewhere and win. Jeter should definitely be a Yankee until the day he retires.[/QUOTE]

How bad would it look for Jeter if he signed with another club after coming off a WS title and just 250 hits shy of 3000? They need each other, and that isn't a snide remark, just a fact. The Yankees have made risky longterm deals with Alex Rodriguez (41 or 42 when deal is up), Mariano Rivera (3 year deal for a closer that will be 40 when the deal is up), CC Sabathia (7 year deal for a pitcher who was worked hard by the Indians and abused by the Brewers), and AJ Burnett (5 year contracts should have a PFA against him). I guess the only question is how much does he want and what are the Yankees going to give him.
 
A good analysis of actual defensive performance vs. gold glove winner. The tl;dr version: it's pretty good with some glaring exceptions. Nyjer Morgan ABSOLUTELY deserved it and didn't get it, Jeter is an average defensive SS at best, and Ryan Zimmerman is a helluva defensive 3B.

AL rundown here.

NL rundown here.
 
[quote name='speedracer']A good analysis of actual defensive performance vs. gold glove winner. The tl;dr version: it's pretty good with some glaring exceptions. Nyjer Morgan ABSOLUTELY deserved it and didn't get it, Jeter is an average defensive SS at best, and Ryan Zimmerman is a helluva defensive 3B.

AL rundown here.

NL rundown here.[/QUOTE]

But the thing is, Jeter had his best defensive year ever. I know calling him "average" is the popular thing to do...but I'm sorry if I feel like actually arguing that this year. He was better than most shortstops this year. And to me, giving Jeter the Gold Glove is like an acknowledgment that he's not the kind of player that wins MVP's (although he should have at least one). But he is the kind of player who wins Gold Gloves.

Maybe the writer's decided that was a better way to reward him for his intangibles than with the MVP. If you look beyond stats, Jeter makes incredible heads up plays in the field that go beyond anything numbers will ever track. Where do you file those kinds of plays? Say what you want about his other GG years, but this year was a really great year for Jeter...numbers included.

EDIT - Also, this may have had something to do with it:
This season, Jeter made a career-low eight errors and matched his personal best with a .986 fielding percentage, both ranking at the top of the AL charts. He anchored an outstanding Yankees infield as New York set a major league record by going 18 games without an error from May 14 to June 1.
Click to expand...

Also, as far as his impending contract, I agree with what most have been saying. It would be a PR nightmare to let Jeter get away. If he wants to play long enough, the fact that he COULD be chasing Pete Rose should be worth just as much (and probably more in my opinion) as A-Rod chasing Bonds.

HOWEVER, if dumbass Scott Boras thinks that Johnny Damon deserves a Jeter contract, I think the Yankees need to cut the cord with Damon. Doing something stupid like that would hurt them both in terms of overpaying for Damon AND driving Jeter's price up even more (because clearly he means more to the team than Johnny Damon). If that's how Boras wants to play it, I'd rather keep Matsui and just find a serviceable leftfielder.
 
The one thing you have to remember about the GG Awards is that they are voted on by managers and coaches. So, I mean, they know what they are talking about. Does Jeter have the best range? Nope, never has. Does he make the most spectacular plays? Nope, never did that, either. But if you ask the guys who voted him, they will all tell you, if you absolutely NEED someone to make a difficult play late in the game, they'll take Jeter. He's not just a clutch hitter. He is clutch all over the field.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']But the thing is, Jeter had his best defensive year ever. I know calling him "average" is the popular thing to do...but I'm sorry if I feel like actually arguing that this year.[/quote]
Oh I love me some arguing ;D
He was better than most shortstops this year. And to me, giving Jeter the Gold Glove is like an acknowledgment that he's not the kind of player that wins MVP's (although he should have at least one). But he is the kind of player who wins Gold Gloves.
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But the numbers don't bear that out. Let's say the median AVG is .265. Guy A hits .270, Guy B hits .290. Guy B is clearly the better hitter. Sure, you *could* say that Jete... Guy A is a good hitter, but that doesn't make it true. Jeter's defensive numbers put him squarely at average, slightly above if you wanna nitpick. That's just the reality of the situation. His UZR simply doesn't stand out, much less make him the pinnacle of the position defensively.
Maybe the writer's decided that was a better way to reward him for his intangibles than with the MVP. If you look beyond stats, Jeter makes incredible heads up plays in the field that go beyond anything numbers will ever track. Where do you file those kinds of plays? Say what you want about his other GG years, but this year was a really great year for Jeter...numbers included.
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[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']The one thing you have to remember about the GG Awards is that they are voted on by managers and coaches. So, I mean, they know what they are talking about. Does Jeter have the best range? Nope, never has. Does he make the most spectacular plays? Nope, never did that, either. But if you ask the guys who voted him, they will all tell you, if you absolutely NEED someone to make a difficult play late in the game, they'll take Jeter. He's not just a clutch hitter. He is clutch all over the field.[/QUOTE]
Or better yet, we've acknowledged his..*ahem* "limited" range in the field. Where do you file all the balls he never has a chance of getting? I'm not arguing that the gold glove award isn't a popularity contest. Of course it is. But that doesn't make Jeter an above average defender.

It's why they stopped using the coaches' poll and writers' poll in college football. The results were completely screwed up. I'm not saying the methodology they use now is good, but obviously there is a problem with the writers 'n coaches approach. Just look at the Heisman. Talk about a joke.

Torii Hunter just got a GG. I mean really guys. C'mon now. It's been years since that guy put up solid defensive numbers. The defensive reputation just follows people forever. Ken Griffey Jr hasn't been a quality defender in MANY years, but writers still talk about it. Gimme a break.
 
Glad the Braves resigned Hudson.

Unfortunately Vasquez will probably get traded since Lowe's contract is stupidly too big and they have 6 starters now and need to pick up a power hitter desperately.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Glad the Braves resigned Hudson.[/quote]
Some risk built into that $27 mil, but seems like a pretty reasonable deal.
Unfortunately Vasquez will probably get traded since Lowe's contract is stupidly too big and they have 6 starters now and need to pick up a power hitter desperately.
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Why would Vasquez be on the trading block as opposed to someone else, and what position would the Braves want this power hitter to be?

I think Vasquez is one of the most underrated pitchers around. That dude is a stud.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Some risk built into that $27 mil, but seems like a pretty reasonable deal.

Why would Vasquez be on the trading block as opposed to someone else, and what position would the Braves want this power hitter to be?

I think Vasquez is one of the most underrated pitchers around. That dude is a stud.[/QUOTE]


Except for the second half of 2004 and game 7 relief performance of Kevin Brown. I would still make the Nick Johnson/Juan Rivera for Vasquez trade every day. That doesn't change the fact that he helped cost the Yankees a pennant with his sucking.
 
[quote name='speedracer']Oh I love me some arguing ;D

But the numbers don't bear that out. Let's say the median AVG is .265. Guy A hits .270, Guy B hits .290. Guy B is clearly the better hitter. Sure, you *could* say that Jete... Guy A is a good hitter, but that doesn't make it true. Jeter's defensive numbers put him squarely at average, slightly above if you wanna nitpick. That's just the reality of the situation. His UZR simply doesn't stand out, much less make him the pinnacle of the position defensively. [/QUOTE]

I hear where you're coming from, but I'm just saying...if Jeter ever deserved to win a Gold Glove, this would be the year. You can't hold his other 3 GG's against him when considering his defensive performance this year. Talking about his "numbers", he did lead the AL in fielding percentage and least errors for his position. Even his UZR this year wasn't THAT bad. He was 5th in the AL (or 4th if you're looking at UZR/150)

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

The ONLY real contender I see is Cesar Izturis, and he started 40 games less than Jeter. Sure, his UZR looks good, but let him play a full season and then we'll see where he stands (considering he made the same amount of errors in 40 fewer games...that's a quarter of the season). And look at Elvis Andrus. He's got a good UZR and 22 freaking errors. You want to give the GG to a guy with 22 errors?

I've had no problem with people complaining about Jeter's decline in defensive ability the past few years, but I'm sorry if I feel like he actually worked hard this year and elevated his game. Give credit where credit is due.
 
I'll pass on further debate here. Arguing about Gold Gloves is generally pointless, because there is no real accepted statistical standard by which to judge defense. You can look at average, home runs, etc. and get a good feeling on whether or not someone is a good hitter, even if you don't see them much. I think you actually need to see someone play a lot of games to judge their defense. The one thing I do know is that if someone is making 20+ errors, even at short, they are generally not Gold Glove material.

Anyway, back to more pressing issues. Anyone catch the rumors about the Yankees being interested in Granderson? No thanks. I'll take a big pass. They don't need another all or nothing hitter. Plus, I watched a bunch of those Tigers games down the stretch, and his defense didn't even impress me all that much. I would love it if Crawford was available to plug into left (or I suppose with his speed he could play center), but I don't see the Rays trading him to the Yankees.
 
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