2013 MLB Discussion
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GhostShark
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It means nothing, ultimately. Wilson said he would like to come work out during spring training and talk to the younger players. That's probably as far as this goes unless he starts to drastically tank in the NFL, which I highly doubt will happen.
n8rockerasu
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The Mariners should have taken him. With Cano there now, that could have really tied those two franchises together and put butts in seats. Not to mention, you do have to wonder if any of these guys ever thinks they could be the next Deion Sanders/Bo Jackson. Keeping Wilson in Seattle might have been crazy enough to pull it off. I realize that Wilson played 2nd base in college, but it's not like he'd be starting any time soon anyway. A crazy thought, for sure. But it would be fun to see.
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Choo was nuts to turn down 7/140 from the Yankees.
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Choo is a Ranger for 7/130.
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GhostShark
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A very good decision and Kudos to JD for getting him for less than the Yanks got Ellsbury. Also, he need to be leading off or Washington is an idiot.
pitfallharry219
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Huge day for the Braves with Glavine and Maddux getting voted into the Hall of Fame. I'm also happy to see Frank Thomas get voted in.
slickkill77
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Unless you think he took PED's he really should be in...
With 668 doubles, he ended his career in 5th place on the all-time list. Biggio also holds the record for the most doubles by a right-handed hitter. Biggio is the only player in the history of baseball with 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 400 stolen bases, and 250 home runs. Biggio ranks 20th on the all-time hits list, though of those 20 players he ranks 19th in career batting average
All that tells me is that he belongs in the Hall of Longevity. I watched his entire career and I never once thought, "we better get the guy out at the plate because Biggio is on deck!" He was a very good player for a very long time. If he retired at age 38 or something he wouldn't have reached a lot of those (artificial) milestones. To me, a HoF player has to have been the best at his position for an extended period of time or at the very least someone that you hated your team to play against because he would kill you. You know it when you see it.
I don't think he took PEDs (although nothing would surprise me anymore) and I think he was a very good baseball player - and versitile since he logged tons of innings at a lot of different positions (2B, C, CF, LF, etc.). I just don't think he's Hall of Fame caliber but what do I know?
GhostShark
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Those numbers are Hall of Fame worthy times a million. There are people with far worse stats in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Longevity? The hell does that even mean? Are we punishing players for having long, healthy and successful careers? May as well scrap Tom Glavine and every other player that played over 15+ seasons of solid-to-excellent professional baseball.
I don't know - Biggio was barely ever in the MVP conversation and never close to winning it (highest is a 4th place finish). He had a nice 5 year stretch from '94 to '98 when he was one of the best second baseman in the league (I would still have taken Knoblauch and Alomar over him during that period). The last 8 years of his career was barely above average (8.0 total WAR).
Tom Glavine won TWO Cy Young Awards (so best in the league at his position) plus 4 more years finishing in the top 3 which is pretty nuts considering he wasn't the best pitcher on his team during his prime with the Braves. Glavine was way better than solid-to-excellent. I hated him for so long (Mets fan here) because he was so freaking good. He pitched in the middle of the steroid era and still put up crazy numbers. I never once gave a second thought to Craig Biggio. There is a definite difference in my mind. Does Jamie Moyer belong in the HoF because he pitched forever?
I love arguing this stuff because it is so subjective!
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GhostShark
CAGiversary!
You're using votes of an award that is a popularity contest as an arguing point. I'm not saying it's useless, but Tom Glavine never had a season over 6 fWAR. The reason he won Cy Youngs are because of his W-L record, which is more of an indicator how good of an offense and defense behind him. His fWAR would put him into a solid-moderately excellent area. I'm not saying Glavine isn't deserving, but when you look at their fWAR and careers, they should both be in. Just because a player doesn't give you a second though doesn't mean he isn't a hall of famer.
I never gave second thoughts or feared Barry Larkin or Roberto Alomar and they are rightfully in the HOF. Just because Biggio didn't crank out 50 HR seasons and bat .350 every year doesn't mean that he wasn't a tremendous player. There are different classes to player types.
I never gave second thoughts or feared Barry Larkin or Roberto Alomar and they are rightfully in the HOF. Just because Biggio didn't crank out 50 HR seasons and bat .350 every year doesn't mean that he wasn't a tremendous player. There are different classes to player types.
I agree... sort of! There are definitely different classes of players. Maybe they should rank them within the Hall - it would be so much more fun to argue whether Biggio should be a Tier 5 or Tier 4 HoFer than whether he should be in there at all. I mean, isn't Biggio's bronzed head going to look completely out of place next to guys like Joe Morgan, Jackie Robinson and Rogers Effing Hornsby? If they had a separate wing for "great" and "all-time great" (and another one for "giant head steroid mutants") I'd be all for it!
bread's done