A Day That Will Live In Infamy

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bmulligan

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December 7th, Pearl Harbor Day.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/pearlhbr.htm

Fly your flags, and take a minute to remember the souls that perished on this day 63 years ago, and the resulting saga that ensued.

In the political forum because I know there are Republicans who will want to claim that Roosevelt lied, people died. J/K In reality, although we hadn't entered into war before December 7th, Roosevelt heavily recruited his personal friends to run recon in private american ships, sent millitary aid to Brittian, and instituted a naval blockade to prevent Japan from getting necessary fuel, food, and raw materials for their Asian conquest. In effect, we had chosen sides and had been engaged for years. It took a major attack to sway a majority of public opinion to opt for all-out war.

Incidentally, there was a congressional investigation similar to the 9/11 one to determine who knew what and when they knew it. Protesters against war tangled with those who wanted revenge, hatred and discrimination against asians and germans abounded. History always seems to repeat itself.

In any case, please give this a bump once in a while today, for posterity's sake.
 
I was about to tee off on you for trying to apply that phrase to something current, but alas, you were doing the right thing and I was going to get angry for no reason.

No one can underestimate the importance of 12/7/41 to world, not just U.S. history. Indeed this is a horrible anniversary to observe.

I always feel a great sadness for the story of the USS Arizona on this date and the hundreds of men who lie entombed under the waters of Pearl Harbor for eternity.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I was about to tee off on you for trying to apply that phrase to something current, but alas, you were doing the right thing and I was going to get angry for no reason.

No one can underestimate the importance of 12/7/41 to world, not just U.S. history. Indeed this is a horrible anniversary to observe.

I always feel a great sadness for the story of the USS Arizona on this date and the hundreds of men who lie entombed under the waters of Pearl Harbor for eternity.[/quote]

Finally we do agree on something, the date might have lost importance to the current generation with everything that is going on now, but it is a day that should always be remembered and observed.
 
Pearl Harbor is not that big of a tragety.

Japanese planes atacked a US base that was strategically located for the sole purpose of attacking Japan.

American planes dropped attomic bombs on 2 densely populated cilivian cities in Japan.


WWII was a horrible tragety that should never have happened, from the US and Britain carpetbombing European cities to the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, civilian casualties were in the tens of millions.

We should have a rememberence day for the civilians that died in that war, they are the real victims.

There is a veterans rememberence day, and the day after it should be for civilians who died or were wounded as noncombatants.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Pearl Harbor is not that big of a tragety.
[/quote]

No 2,400 Americans dieing isn't that big of a deal. :roll:

Go back under that rock you come from you little scum.
 
[quote name='quacker']WWII was a horrible tragety that should never have happened, from the US and Britain carpetbombing European cities to the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, civilian casualties were in the tens of millions. [/quote]

Let's not forget that little mustached man named Hitler, I think he may have had something to do with that WWII debacle. I mean, it could have been somebody else's fault besides that evil US and Brittish empires who crave nothing more than to kill as many innocent people as possible...

In fact, I think Hitler's middle name was Quackzilla. No, that wasn't it.

Quackzilla was his pet name for his penis. Yeah, that's it !
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Pearl Harbor is not that big of a tragety.

Japanese planes atacked a US base that was strategically located for the sole purpose of attacking Japan.

American planes dropped attomic bombs on 2 densely populated cilivian cities in Japan.


WWII was a horrible tragety that should never have happened, from the US and Britain carpetbombing European cities to the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, civilian casualties were in the tens of millions.

We should have a rememberence day for the civilians that died in that war, they are the real victims.

There is a veterans rememberence day, and the day after it should be for civilians who died or were wounded as noncombatants.[/quote]

Dear lord every damn post you make, causes me to scratch my head. Is enough oxygen getting to your brain?
 
Quackzilla: Proof positive that you should have Gene Police handing out breeding permits to irresponsible couples and terminating pregnancies of those that don't.
 
[quote name='Elrod']Call me crazy, but I tend to view both events as being tragic.[/quote]

As do I, but I see everything as being relative.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla'][quote name='Elrod']Call me crazy, but I tend to view both events as being tragic.[/quote]

As do I, but I see everything as being relative.[/quote]

I wasn't pointing that comment directly at you, QZilla. My personal belief is that war is the tragic consequence of failed diplomacy. *shrugs* I guess my point was that two events are not mutually exclusive.
 
The Japanese attack was pointless.

Us dropping the bomb SAVED lives. American lives. And frankly in order to save 1 American life, I would drop the bombs on our enemy.
 
[quote name='David85']The Japanese attack was pointless.

Us dropping the bomb SAVED lives. American lives. And frankly in order to save 1 American life, I would drop the bombs on our enemy.[/quote]

But it's nothing but terrorism.

The US murdered over 130,000 civilians who had nothing at all to do with the war to threaten the military and government into surrendering. They didn't even give warning, those people were killed in cold blood, and after the initial 130,000 deaths from the bomb there were many deaths and mutations as a result of the radiation poisoning.

There is a HUGE difference in the value of a soldiers life and the value of a civilians life, especially children. The soldier accepts his or her actions and the consequences that will follow, the civilian has nothing to do with the war and doesn't want to die.

1 soldier < 1 noncombatant

And the bomb didn't save lives because if the ground war was continued the net loss of life including soldiers and civilians would have been lower.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']
There is a HUGE difference in the value of a soldiers life and the value of a civilians life, especially children. The soldier accepts his or her actions and the consequences that will follow, the civilian has nothing to do with the war and doesn't want to die.

1 soldier < 1 noncombatant

And the bomb didn't save lives because if the ground war was continued the net loss of life including soldiers and civilians would have been lower.[/quote]

I agree with the soldier bit, but the bomb may have saved lives. The japanese would have likely destroyed our initial landing and the ensuing battle would have been worse than anything we had seen in Germany, that is if we had insisted on invading (which is the assumption when suggesting it saved lives). The problem I have is the u.s. was so concerned about the soviets entering mainland japan (which they were about to do) that they dropped the second bomb. Japan was close to negotiating surrender before the 2 bombs, Truman himself later said that Stalin recieved a telegram from the japanese emperor asking for peace (further suggesting peace was possible without hiroshima and nagasaki). The second bomb was overkill, directed at the soviets (to keep them from entering japan) more than the japanese.

Though, on pearl harbor, it was a tragedy, and it was a major event in our history. That being said, it is often treated as an event where the japanese attacked for no reason and completely out of the blue. Things are almost never as black and white as they appear. That's not to say japan was right and the u.s. was wrong, far from it, it's just that pearl harbor is viewed too simplisticly by the average person.
 
It was kind of like the Cuban missile crisis.

The US was moving in on Japan, installing air and navy bases on the Pacific Islands.

Of course, the Russians installed the missiles in Cuba because the US had already set up similar nukes withing striking range of Moscow. ;)
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It was kind of like the Cuban missile crisis.

The US was moving in on Japan, installing air and navy bases on the Pacific Islands.[/quote]

You need to re-read the history books...if you ever read them in the first place. Especially in regards to Japan's aggression in the 1930s and 40s. Alternatively, anyone Korean or Chinese will know what to tell you.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It was kind of like the Cuban missile crisis.
[/quote]

Kind of like rape is like consensual sex without the consent?

CTL
 
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