CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
Thank you, SoulEdgeVII. They're certainly a lot more risk-taking than Sony and MS...but I will give Sony credit for the camera.
A Reason Why Third Party Publishers Are Abandoning the Cube
- Thread starter SoulEdgeVII
- Start date
- Feedback
- 131 (100%)
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
Warioware? DS? Sounds crazy when you first hear it (but makes sense later). And let's talk about Microsoft's recent risks: A sequal to cult-classic FPS "Halo" is in the works, a real suprise for a game with such a small fanbase. And even an MMORPG! Daring! And Sony: A camera? Madness! An FPS with great graphics? Original!
Anyway, don't deny that Nintendo has tried some risky things. That's what I meant. How about Virtual Boy, huh?[/quote]
The guy who created Virtual Boy got reminded of that all time until he died.
Warioware is not all that risky. It was a GBA game with a great concept that rode the fact that it had snippits of classic Nintendo games as a selling point.
The DS is risky, but it is a market dominated by Nintendo and the only competition they have are systems that price themselves out of the market.
Also, after MP was a success what came out ? A sequel! Every company does it.
Warioware? DS? Sounds crazy when you first hear it (but makes sense later). And let's talk about Microsoft's recent risks: A sequal to cult-classic FPS "Halo" is in the works, a real suprise for a game with such a small fanbase. And even an MMORPG! Daring! And Sony: A camera? Madness! An FPS with great graphics? Original!
Anyway, don't deny that Nintendo has tried some risky things. That's what I meant. How about Virtual Boy, huh?[/quote]
The guy who created Virtual Boy got reminded of that all time until he died.
Warioware is not all that risky. It was a GBA game with a great concept that rode the fact that it had snippits of classic Nintendo games as a selling point.
The DS is risky, but it is a market dominated by Nintendo and the only competition they have are systems that price themselves out of the market.
Also, after MP was a success what came out ? A sequel! Every company does it.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
But GBA saved it.
And as long as SNK exists, there will always be 2D (so long as KOF:MI doesn't become a trend...). And how is "PS1" a four letter word? I see three.[/quote]
If you say so.
What happens if Sony, by chance, skill, market, or anything else, gets ahold of the handheld market? 2D is gone. 2D isn't the ONLY point here, but Sony's bad news for this industry from day one.
But GBA saved it.
And as long as SNK exists, there will always be 2D (so long as KOF:MI doesn't become a trend...). And how is "PS1" a four letter word? I see three.[/quote]If you say so.
What happens if Sony, by chance, skill, market, or anything else, gets ahold of the handheld market? 2D is gone. 2D isn't the ONLY point here, but Sony's bad news for this industry from day one.
SoulEdgeVII
CAGiversary!
An argument could be made that Metroid Prime in itself was a risk. Turning a 2D exploration game into a first person exploration game took a lot of guts and may have outraged a lot of fans. Luckily it came through and still managed to maintain the spirit of the old Metroid games. The whole Cel-da controversy seemed like huge risk to me too. In this day and age graphics reign supreme but they took the Zelda franchise into another direction which may have been dangerous since Zelda is one of their top franchises. However, I am looking forward to the next "realistic" Zelda game.
I do agree that all companies make sequels but at least you can expect quality from Nintendo.
I do agree that all companies make sequels but at least you can expect quality from Nintendo.
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
No worries. The PSP is doomed. There is no way the PSP (or PS2...) could catch GBA, and the response to DS has been that it will be superior for players and developers. And since so many people's complaint with GBA is that a lot of the games are ports, then the PSP is really in trouble. Almost every single game announced so far for PSP is a port/remake. PSP doesn't have a chance.
Aside from that, there will always be companies making 2D games. Small Japanese studios and whatknot.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
Warioware? DS? Sounds crazy when you first hear it (but makes sense later). One was a risk that was successful, and the other was a risk that, judging be immensely postive feedback by players, developers, and the press, will be a huge success and will destroy it's lame, unoriginal competition (cough, PSP, cough).
Now let's talk about Microsoft's recent risks: A sequal to cult-classic FPS "Halo" is in the works, a real suprise for a game with such a small fanbase. Creative, original new features include: internet multiplayer! That's a new one! And they're also doing an MMORPG set in a medieval fantasy land! Daring! And as for Sony: An futuristic FPS with great graphics? Original!
Anyway, don't deny that Nintendo has tried some risky things. That's what I meant. How about Virtual Boy, huh?[/quote]
I agree with you on Halo, but in all fairness, Fable looks pretty original and quite possibly groundbreaking.
Warioware? DS? Sounds crazy when you first hear it (but makes sense later). One was a risk that was successful, and the other was a risk that, judging be immensely postive feedback by players, developers, and the press, will be a huge success and will destroy it's lame, unoriginal competition (cough, PSP, cough).
Now let's talk about Microsoft's recent risks: A sequal to cult-classic FPS "Halo" is in the works, a real suprise for a game with such a small fanbase. Creative, original new features include: internet multiplayer! That's a new one! And they're also doing an MMORPG set in a medieval fantasy land! Daring! And as for Sony: An futuristic FPS with great graphics? Original!
Anyway, don't deny that Nintendo has tried some risky things. That's what I meant. How about Virtual Boy, huh?[/quote]
I agree with you on Halo, but in all fairness, Fable looks pretty original and quite possibly groundbreaking.
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
Pft, but it was made by a French game god who had already proved worth.
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
Nice points on both of those, SoulEdgeVII. Metroid Prime made a lot of fans uneasy, but blew the game world away when it came out. And Zelda. Ahhh...wonderful Zelda. EVERYONE was freaked out and outraged by it. But the second you played it, all became clear. Such a wonderful game.
Now. What's that about Nintendo not taking risks, CaseyRyback? And best of all: most of Nintendo's risks end up as huge successes. That's the big difference.
Now. What's that about Nintendo not taking risks, CaseyRyback? And best of all: most of Nintendo's risks end up as huge successes. That's the big difference.
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
I don't hate 3D games. I never said that. I totally embrace 3D games (the good ones, anyway). It just so happens that most of my favorite games are 2D. What I hate is that 3D games are killing 2D games. It sucks.
Oh, and sorry about the Molyneux mistake. I guess [/tired stupor] didn't work. I'm...very tired.
Oh, and sorry about the Molyneux mistake. I guess [/tired stupor] didn't work. I'm...very tired.
- Feedback
- 131 (100%)
Shenmue was a risk, most of Nintendo's games do not cost much so a flop does not hurt them.When I talk of taking a risk, I mean something that really does well or bombs.
Virtual Boy and connectivity were risks. Pikmin was a game by Miyamoto, and was a launch title. Those two things assured it sales
Virtual Boy and connectivity were risks. Pikmin was a game by Miyamoto, and was a launch title. Those two things assured it sales
pfunkpearl
CAGiversary!
It's hard to see GC as a valid platform for anything other than 1st party titles. Even the 2nd party and 3rd party games don't sell well, Viewtiful joe, RE0, Eternal darkness, etc. If people would buy them like people do for xbox then this discussion wouldn't be taking palce. TRuth of the matter is the xbox was like the plague to 3rd party developers of exclusive content no look at it. Top notch exclusive games like, Riddick, ninja gaiden, Kotor, etc. It was really up to owners of the systems to decide it's fate and you have driven the publishers away. While Xbox owners have welcomed them with open arms.
SoulEdgeVII
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Graystone']
it has nothing to do with blood & whores I don't want to play a game called milk and cookies... [/quote]
I hate to bring this up but the Adventures of Cookies and Cream came out for the PS2 and not the nintendo Gamecube.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/450719.asp
Ahhh....nothing's sweeter than irony.
it has nothing to do with blood & whores I don't want to play a game called milk and cookies... [/quote]
I hate to bring this up but the Adventures of Cookies and Cream came out for the PS2 and not the nintendo Gamecube.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/450719.asp
Ahhh....nothing's sweeter than irony.
SoulEdgeVII
CAGiversary!
[quote name='pfunkpearl']It's hard to see GC as a valid platform for anything other than 1st party titles. Even the 2nd party and 3rd party games don't sell well, Viewtiful joe, RE0, Eternal darkness, etc. If people would buy them like people do for xbox then this discussion wouldn't be taking palce. TRuth of the matter is the xbox was like the plague to 3rd party developers of exclusive content no look at it. Top notch exclusive games like, Riddick, ninja gaiden, Kotor, etc. It was really up to owners of the systems to decide it's fate and you have driven the publishers away. While Xbox owners have welcomed them with open arms.[/quote]
Those are excellent games but Riddick may be heading to the Ps2 and KOTOR can be played on the PC.
Those are excellent games but Riddick may be heading to the Ps2 and KOTOR can be played on the PC.
Pylis
CAGiversary!
Uhm... I love Nintendo, I really do. But I don't see how Microsoft is "killing gaming," CoffeeEdge. It's the most powerful system, generally any game ported to the system is the best of the three, and it simply is THE online console at this point. Halo? Sure, it's good, but overrated. Halo 2? Looks excellent, and will possibly (this or HL2) be the greatest FPS of all time--even if it isn't revolutionary. All systems have their own merits, and the X-Box bashing makes very little sense to me. Can you elaborate on how MS is killing gaming for everybody?
Oh, oh, but I agree with you on the PSP, which is a feature-laden piece of junk. I'd much rather have a good portable game system for a lower price. The DS looks interesting, but I kind of wonder how well it will do considering it's so, well, unique.
Oh, oh, but I agree with you on the PSP, which is a feature-laden piece of junk. I'd much rather have a good portable game system for a lower price. The DS looks interesting, but I kind of wonder how well it will do considering it's so, well, unique.
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
No worries. The PSP is doomed. There is no way the PSP (or PS2...) could catch GBA, and the response to DS has been that it will be superior for players and developers. And since so many people's complaint with GBA is that a lot of the games are ports, then the PSP is really in trouble. Almost every single game announced so far for PSP is a port/remake. PSP doesn't have a chance.
Aside from that, there will always be companies making 2D games. Small Japanese studios and whatknot.[/quote]
Nintendo seemed like a sure shot in the SNES era. Think about it.
Furthermore, just because a couple developers are off cranking out 2D software doesn't mean 2D isn't dead.
For the record, I'm all over the DS - but only after I played it. Prior I wasn't convinced. Just becasue I'm a fan of Nintendo and I would prefer the DS doesn't mean I'm not keeping an eye on Sony.
No worries. The PSP is doomed. There is no way the PSP (or PS2...) could catch GBA, and the response to DS has been that it will be superior for players and developers. And since so many people's complaint with GBA is that a lot of the games are ports, then the PSP is really in trouble. Almost every single game announced so far for PSP is a port/remake. PSP doesn't have a chance.
Aside from that, there will always be companies making 2D games. Small Japanese studios and whatknot.[/quote]
Nintendo seemed like a sure shot in the SNES era. Think about it.
Furthermore, just because a couple developers are off cranking out 2D software doesn't mean 2D isn't dead.
For the record, I'm all over the DS - but only after I played it. Prior I wasn't convinced. Just becasue I'm a fan of Nintendo and I would prefer the DS doesn't mean I'm not keeping an eye on Sony.
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Nintendo's problems have nothing to do with third party support. It has to do with how they treated third parties in the past. Don't you think for a minute the heads of Capcom, Konami, Activision, Namco, Square, EA, Ubisoft or any other maker of note have forgotten Nintendo's business practices from when they were the 95% market share king..[/quote]
I like this - especially considering Capcom's vocal support.[/quote]
The same Capcom that has given up on delivering the promised exclusives for the GameCube and has laready announced PS2 version of upcoming GC titles?
The honeymoon is over and the bride didn't rock Capcom's world so they gone looking for action elsewhere.
I like this - especially considering Capcom's vocal support.[/quote]
The same Capcom that has given up on delivering the promised exclusives for the GameCube and has laready announced PS2 version of upcoming GC titles?
The honeymoon is over and the bride didn't rock Capcom's world so they gone looking for action elsewhere.
PittsburghAfterDark
CAGiversary!
What planet are you from? Capcom games like Karnov, Mega Man, Bionic Commando, Ghouls and Ghosts made Capcom absolutely huge on the NES. I can't even get into how many million sellers had for the NES. They ended up being one of the top 5 publishers on the NES in a list that includes Nintendo. They didn't have a Street Fighter II type breakout so that means they sucked? Oh, man, people forget....
Square was big on the NES but nowhere near as big as their PSone nadir. Final Fantasy started out on that system and they also made games like 3-D World Runner, RAD Racer and several other million sellers. Final Fantasy sold several million in Japan.
Yeah, Capcom's "vocal" support. Just like EA's "vocal support" for Xbox Live? Money talks, bullshit walks. Capcom didn't bring over Resident Evil for the installed base. They've put that franchise up for the highest bidder since Code Veronica.
Let's look at the Capcom "5". Dead Phoenix was cancelled, PN 03 sucked, RE4 is nowhere to be seen two years after its first showing, Viewtiful Joe went to the PS2 and Killer 7 is MIA. Where else is Capcom's vocal support?
magilacudy
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 16 (100%)
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Um...what? Anyway, you could say that games started to decline at any time, but it was Halo, the Xbox, and Rockstar that really solidified it in this generation. [/quote]
Pylis alluded to this, but how exactly are Halo, Xbox and Rockstar declining gaming this generation? You keep saying that *insert company that isn't Nintendo* ruined *insert broad generality* without the how or why that's so.
Indulge my curiousity.
Pylis alluded to this, but how exactly are Halo, Xbox and Rockstar declining gaming this generation? You keep saying that *insert company that isn't Nintendo* ruined *insert broad generality* without the how or why that's so.
Indulge my curiousity.
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
Yeah, Capcom's "vocal" support. Just like EA's "vocal support" for Xbox Live? Money talks, bullshit walks. Capcom didn't bring over Resident Evil for the installed base. They've put that franchise up for the highest bidder since Code Veronica.
Let's look at the Capcom "5". Dead Phoenix was cancelled, PN 03 sucked, RE4 is nowhere to be seen two years after its first showing, Viewtiful Joe went to the PS2 and Killer 7 is MIA. Where else is Capcom's vocal support?[/quote]
I wasn't aware that VJ was making its way to the states, but that was old information.
Regardless, RE 4 is coming (I notice you cite it's lack of existance - Capcom has stated "Winter 2004" since the BEGINNING) and it's going to kick the pants off of anyone. I assure you. Furthermore, my point is this: Nintendo's policies in the past clearly didn't affect Capcom's recent decisions - money did.
Yeah, Capcom's "vocal" support. Just like EA's "vocal support" for Xbox Live? Money talks, bullshit walks. Capcom didn't bring over Resident Evil for the installed base. They've put that franchise up for the highest bidder since Code Veronica.
Let's look at the Capcom "5". Dead Phoenix was cancelled, PN 03 sucked, RE4 is nowhere to be seen two years after its first showing, Viewtiful Joe went to the PS2 and Killer 7 is MIA. Where else is Capcom's vocal support?[/quote]
I wasn't aware that VJ was making its way to the states, but that was old information.
Regardless, RE 4 is coming (I notice you cite it's lack of existance - Capcom has stated "Winter 2004" since the BEGINNING) and it's going to kick the pants off of anyone. I assure you. Furthermore, my point is this: Nintendo's policies in the past clearly didn't affect Capcom's recent decisions - money did.
Pylis
CAGiversary!
Damn, RE4... the game looks amazing, and Capcom desperately NEEDS a hit. I love the game company to death, but they've been putting out a lot of shit lately, and perhaps a success here will bring Capcom's designers around. (I wonder if like half of them even LIKE making games anymore.)
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Um...what? Anyway, you could say that games started to decline at any time, but it was Halo, the Xbox, and Rockstar that really solidified it in this generation. The game industry is still doing great, creatively and sales-wise, but it's just the mass-market that's becoming problematic. With people talking about "Halo this, Halo that," it's harder for developers to push games like La Pucelle and other quality art titles. It's like movies. There will ALWAYS be those great cult games and original, creative games from Nintendo and smaller companies, but the Halos and GTAs will infect the unassuming mass gaming public's mind. The thing about Nintendo is that there the biggest company still making that kind of game.[/quote]
This is plain silly. You might as well blame Mario Sunshine as well for overshadowing obscure non-mainstream titles. The big sellers get that not just from marketing but by ultimately pleasing the mainstream audience. There has never been an era in video games going all the way back to the 70's in which something like La Pucelle would ever be more than a niche title. This title can be made available by a niche specalist like Atlus because the massive success of titles like GTA and Madden created a massive installed base for the PS2. As a result a game that will only reach 1% of the market at best can still be a success for a small company like Atlus.
Consider the same 1% of the GameCube market and imagine trying to convince a bank to front you the capital to localize and market a niche title for that much, much smaller market.
It all comes down to numbers. Installed base is immensely important because only a fraction of the well reviewed titles released every year have wide appeal. You can bet there plenty of big Nintendo fans within the llittle niche companies like Atlus but when it comes to business decsions they have to look to the numbers for guidance.
Nintendo can make good money, albeit nothing like the SNES heyday, on the GC because they own the franchise that drove the bulk of GameCube purchases. They can achieved a level of market penetration on their own platform that most third parties cannot dream of reaching. Thus they have no choice but to go with the machine that has the big installed base and alternatively the platform that lets them share a major portion of the development investment with a PC version of the game. This is one reason why Lucas has invested so much in completely original products for Xbox rather than the umpteenth rehash of the original Star Wars Trilogy that with diminishing returns for each generation.
It has nothing to do with the yeas and nays of the hardware, nor does it matter how good Nintendo's franchise products are. The market has expanded past that. There are many millions of gamers who skipped the N64 for lack of interest in the Nintendo franchises and have continued that trend in this generation. The best Mario or Zelda to date is not going to make them GameCube owners. This doesn't stop them from being 'real' gamers. Sorry but your pet genres aren't what decides that qualification. In the eyes of third party deelopers the sole qualification is the money and inclination to buy games. Whatever types of game the demographic demands the publishers will seek to provide on the console that has sold the greatest numbers.
This is plain silly. You might as well blame Mario Sunshine as well for overshadowing obscure non-mainstream titles. The big sellers get that not just from marketing but by ultimately pleasing the mainstream audience. There has never been an era in video games going all the way back to the 70's in which something like La Pucelle would ever be more than a niche title. This title can be made available by a niche specalist like Atlus because the massive success of titles like GTA and Madden created a massive installed base for the PS2. As a result a game that will only reach 1% of the market at best can still be a success for a small company like Atlus.
Consider the same 1% of the GameCube market and imagine trying to convince a bank to front you the capital to localize and market a niche title for that much, much smaller market.
It all comes down to numbers. Installed base is immensely important because only a fraction of the well reviewed titles released every year have wide appeal. You can bet there plenty of big Nintendo fans within the llittle niche companies like Atlus but when it comes to business decsions they have to look to the numbers for guidance.
Nintendo can make good money, albeit nothing like the SNES heyday, on the GC because they own the franchise that drove the bulk of GameCube purchases. They can achieved a level of market penetration on their own platform that most third parties cannot dream of reaching. Thus they have no choice but to go with the machine that has the big installed base and alternatively the platform that lets them share a major portion of the development investment with a PC version of the game. This is one reason why Lucas has invested so much in completely original products for Xbox rather than the umpteenth rehash of the original Star Wars Trilogy that with diminishing returns for each generation.
It has nothing to do with the yeas and nays of the hardware, nor does it matter how good Nintendo's franchise products are. The market has expanded past that. There are many millions of gamers who skipped the N64 for lack of interest in the Nintendo franchises and have continued that trend in this generation. The best Mario or Zelda to date is not going to make them GameCube owners. This doesn't stop them from being 'real' gamers. Sorry but your pet genres aren't what decides that qualification. In the eyes of third party deelopers the sole qualification is the money and inclination to buy games. Whatever types of game the demographic demands the publishers will seek to provide on the console that has sold the greatest numbers.
SoulEdgeVII
CAGiversary!
Viewtiful Joe 2 is still coming out for Gamecube but PS2 gets some action this time too.
[quote name='Pylis']Damn, RE4... the game looks amazing, and Capcom desperately NEEDS a hit. I love the game company to death, but they've been putting out a lot of shit lately, and perhaps a success here will bring Capcom's designers around. (I wonder if like half of them even LIKE making games anymore.)[/quote]
It's awesome - I love it
D!
It's awesome - I love it
D!
- Feedback
- 131 (100%)
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
What planet are you from? Capcom games like Karnov, Mega Man, Bionic Commando, Ghouls and Ghosts made Capcom absolutely huge on the NES. I can't even get into how many million sellers had for the NES. They ended up being one of the top 5 publishers on the NES in a list that includes Nintendo. They didn't have a Street Fighter II type breakout so that means they sucked? Oh, man, people forget....
[/quote]
Just because they had some solid titles and Mega Man was a success does not mean they were as powerful as they were in the SNES era. CAPCOM made itself on the SNES, and was more of a force in getting people to buy SONY over Nintendo the next generation (they supported SEGA, but not nearly as much as SONY).
What planet are you from? Capcom games like Karnov, Mega Man, Bionic Commando, Ghouls and Ghosts made Capcom absolutely huge on the NES. I can't even get into how many million sellers had for the NES. They ended up being one of the top 5 publishers on the NES in a list that includes Nintendo. They didn't have a Street Fighter II type breakout so that means they sucked? Oh, man, people forget....
[/quote]
Just because they had some solid titles and Mega Man was a success does not mean they were as powerful as they were in the SNES era. CAPCOM made itself on the SNES, and was more of a force in getting people to buy SONY over Nintendo the next generation (they supported SEGA, but not nearly as much as SONY).
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
What planet are you from? Capcom games like Karnov, Mega Man, Bionic Commando, Ghouls and Ghosts made Capcom absolutely huge on the NES. I can't even get into how many million sellers had for the NES. They ended up being one of the top 5 publishers on the NES in a list that includes Nintendo. They didn't have a Street Fighter II type breakout so that means they sucked? Oh, man, people forget....
Square was big on the NES but nowhere near as big as their PSone nadir. Final Fantasy started out on that system and they also made games like 3-D World Runner, RAD Racer and several other million sellers. Final Fantasy sold several million in Japan.
Yeah, Capcom's "vocal" support. Just like EA's "vocal support" for Xbox Live? Money talks, bullshit walks. Capcom didn't bring over Resident Evil for the installed base. They've put that franchise up for the highest bidder since Code Veronica.
Let's look at the Capcom "5". Dead Phoenix was cancelled, PN 03 sucked, RE4 is nowhere to be seen two years after its first showing, Viewtiful Joe went to the PS2 and Killer 7 is MIA. Where else is Capcom's vocal support?[/quote]
Actually, Killer 7 has already been announced for PS2.
You covered it pretty well. Capcom was an arcade titan long before the SNES. As was Konami, Namco, Taito, etc. Their contributions to the success of the NES were very important. Imagine if Sega had gotten the clue about third party publishing a generation earlier and made those companies a better offer to publish on the arguably stronger Master System hardware. Nintendo, dependent primarily on their in-house software developers, would have been in roughly the same position back then as they are today.
IT's the third party support hat really makes or breaks a system. It may do well on a small scale thank to exclusive franchises but the market dominator is always the platform with the strongest external support. The thing that catapulted Nintendo to dominance in the 8-bit era much more than Mario was the creation of the business model that made third party support a major revenue source for the first time and also allowed better management of the platform. The jig was up when after a few years competitors caught on to how it worked and why it was so important.
First, NEC launched the PC Engine with a strong third party support program modeled on Nintendo's. The PC Engine quickly made serious inroads on Nintendo's territory. NEC however did not seek to break NOA's exclusivity contract's with US third parties. This required a game appearing on a NOA platform could not appear on any competing platform for a minimum of two years. This won NOA a huge number of exclusive titles without any payoffs to the publishers as is common today.
Sega finally wised up and realize they had no hope if they didn't level the playing field. They brought suit against NOA. NOA settled rather than face a judgement and Street Fighter II appeared for the Sega Genesis very soon after.
Nintendo never recovered from this. Their console marketshare has declined with each succeeding generation since. They never got used to not having publishers by the balls and were upstaged by Sony's stronger diplomacy skills. Use of media that better accomodated third party publishers' needs was no small factor, too.
Nintendo owes their continuing ability to operate as a platform company to the GameBoy portable market. Their competition to date has been inept at best and Sony's entry is target so upscale it is very unlikely to affect the GameBoy's market or it's successors unless Sony is able to cut the price on their unit more rapidly than anyone expects. Even then the PSP is not something you're likely to buy for an 8-year-old. So this is still a very strong market for Nintendo. On the console side they made some bad bets and lost.
What planet are you from? Capcom games like Karnov, Mega Man, Bionic Commando, Ghouls and Ghosts made Capcom absolutely huge on the NES. I can't even get into how many million sellers had for the NES. They ended up being one of the top 5 publishers on the NES in a list that includes Nintendo. They didn't have a Street Fighter II type breakout so that means they sucked? Oh, man, people forget....
Square was big on the NES but nowhere near as big as their PSone nadir. Final Fantasy started out on that system and they also made games like 3-D World Runner, RAD Racer and several other million sellers. Final Fantasy sold several million in Japan.
Yeah, Capcom's "vocal" support. Just like EA's "vocal support" for Xbox Live? Money talks, bullshit walks. Capcom didn't bring over Resident Evil for the installed base. They've put that franchise up for the highest bidder since Code Veronica.
Let's look at the Capcom "5". Dead Phoenix was cancelled, PN 03 sucked, RE4 is nowhere to be seen two years after its first showing, Viewtiful Joe went to the PS2 and Killer 7 is MIA. Where else is Capcom's vocal support?[/quote]
Actually, Killer 7 has already been announced for PS2.
You covered it pretty well. Capcom was an arcade titan long before the SNES. As was Konami, Namco, Taito, etc. Their contributions to the success of the NES were very important. Imagine if Sega had gotten the clue about third party publishing a generation earlier and made those companies a better offer to publish on the arguably stronger Master System hardware. Nintendo, dependent primarily on their in-house software developers, would have been in roughly the same position back then as they are today.
IT's the third party support hat really makes or breaks a system. It may do well on a small scale thank to exclusive franchises but the market dominator is always the platform with the strongest external support. The thing that catapulted Nintendo to dominance in the 8-bit era much more than Mario was the creation of the business model that made third party support a major revenue source for the first time and also allowed better management of the platform. The jig was up when after a few years competitors caught on to how it worked and why it was so important.
First, NEC launched the PC Engine with a strong third party support program modeled on Nintendo's. The PC Engine quickly made serious inroads on Nintendo's territory. NEC however did not seek to break NOA's exclusivity contract's with US third parties. This required a game appearing on a NOA platform could not appear on any competing platform for a minimum of two years. This won NOA a huge number of exclusive titles without any payoffs to the publishers as is common today.
Sega finally wised up and realize they had no hope if they didn't level the playing field. They brought suit against NOA. NOA settled rather than face a judgement and Street Fighter II appeared for the Sega Genesis very soon after.
Nintendo never recovered from this. Their console marketshare has declined with each succeeding generation since. They never got used to not having publishers by the balls and were upstaged by Sony's stronger diplomacy skills. Use of media that better accomodated third party publishers' needs was no small factor, too.
Nintendo owes their continuing ability to operate as a platform company to the GameBoy portable market. Their competition to date has been inept at best and Sony's entry is target so upscale it is very unlikely to affect the GameBoy's market or it's successors unless Sony is able to cut the price on their unit more rapidly than anyone expects. Even then the PSP is not something you're likely to buy for an 8-year-old. So this is still a very strong market for Nintendo. On the console side they made some bad bets and lost.
guyver2077
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 6 (100%)
god nintendo just wake up...
online is now!!!!!
online is now!!!!!
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
They're only "insulting to your intelligence" if, for some reason, you find non-violent, even, GASP, cute games make you feel stupid. And I wasn't talking about you specifically, obviously.[/quote]
I know, I am talking specficily about games like elmos letter adventure and barbies horse adventure games that are for little kids come out more often then decent games. can't they make it 50/50 half for their target audience and the other half for mainstream public. I feel this has turned into a flame.
They're only "insulting to your intelligence" if, for some reason, you find non-violent, even, GASP, cute games make you feel stupid. And I wasn't talking about you specifically, obviously.[/quote]
I know, I am talking specficily about games like elmos letter adventure and barbies horse adventure games that are for little kids come out more often then decent games. can't they make it 50/50 half for their target audience and the other half for mainstream public. I feel this has turned into a flame.
magilacudy
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 16 (100%)
Come to think of it, maybe Nintendo is trying to make a push to reach a broader (and older) audience with its DS. It has a touch-screen with a stylus, which in itself unlikely for an 8-year old as well.
Nintendo is expanding the portable market, but right into Sony's hands. While we may not see the GBA expire so quickly, within the next few years it will definitely dwindle as the hardware ages, and Sony gains a foothold. If in fact the GBA market is their only constant earner, they might be in for some trouble.
Nintendo is expanding the portable market, but right into Sony's hands. While we may not see the GBA expire so quickly, within the next few years it will definitely dwindle as the hardware ages, and Sony gains a foothold. If in fact the GBA market is their only constant earner, they might be in for some trouble.
PittsburghAfterDark
CAGiversary!
I don't "get" the DS. I really don't. I don't see how playing with a stylus, d-pad and a couple of buttons can be fun. I think they're correct in downplaying its importance because if it fails, which I think it will, no one will say they're losing it. Meanwhile if it succeeds they can claim they never thought it would be this big. I can see stylus' being lost in days, parents bitching, them being sold for $5 replacements.
Nintendo went from having more control over software companies than M$ could ever have over PC makers with Windows. They were feared by Apple, M$, Matsushita, Sony, Phillips... everyone was afraid that Nintendo was going to be a technology company to reckon with, not a game company. Then they f upped with cartridges on the N64. Thats when they ceased to ever become a technology company and forever relegated themselves to a gaming company.
When Sony put themselves in the same position with the PS2 they petrified M$ to get into the market. Everyone wants the box in the living room except Nintendo. Nintendo just wants to make games. That being said there's no reason for them to make the box anymore. They lose money, cost billions to design, build and market and their share is ever eroding. They're going to be done within 6 years making consoles so why do it when they're losing money hand over fist with a white elephant?
Nintendo went from having more control over software companies than M$ could ever have over PC makers with Windows. They were feared by Apple, M$, Matsushita, Sony, Phillips... everyone was afraid that Nintendo was going to be a technology company to reckon with, not a game company. Then they f upped with cartridges on the N64. Thats when they ceased to ever become a technology company and forever relegated themselves to a gaming company.
When Sony put themselves in the same position with the PS2 they petrified M$ to get into the market. Everyone wants the box in the living room except Nintendo. Nintendo just wants to make games. That being said there's no reason for them to make the box anymore. They lose money, cost billions to design, build and market and their share is ever eroding. They're going to be done within 6 years making consoles so why do it when they're losing money hand over fist with a white elephant?
[quote name='organicow'][quote name='guyver2077']god nintendo just wake up...
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.
[quote name='magilacudy']Come to think of it, maybe Nintendo is trying to make a push to reach a broader (and older) audience with its DS. It has a touch-screen with a stylus, which in itself unlikely for an 8-year old as well.
Nintendo is expanding the portable market, but right into Sony's hands. While we may not see the GBA expire so quickly, within the next few years it will definitely dwindle as the hardware ages, and Sony gains a foothold. If in fact the GBA market is their only constant earner, they might be in for some trouble.[/quote]
No question there. They've already stated that the DS is NOT the successor to the GBA models. When the time comes the next GameBoy iteration (in terms of being a separate coding platform from a developer's perspective) will adhere to Nintendo's highly successful formula for mainstream handhelds: make it better than the previous model but keep it backward compatible and under $100.
THe DS is an interesting experiment but giving it a GBA compatible cartridge slot in addition to its own helps insure that even if it is ultimatel;y undersupported as a distinct platform those who made the investment will still have access to a massive library of GB titles. The price remains unannounced but I think they have a good shot at a strong launch if they keep it to $150 or less. This is well within the means of teens and older gamers looking for a novelty to show off, not to mention the possibility Nintendo may come up with some must-have games that cannot be readily duplicated elsewhere. Those early numbers can make all the difference in getting devlopers on board.
Nintendo is expanding the portable market, but right into Sony's hands. While we may not see the GBA expire so quickly, within the next few years it will definitely dwindle as the hardware ages, and Sony gains a foothold. If in fact the GBA market is their only constant earner, they might be in for some trouble.[/quote]
No question there. They've already stated that the DS is NOT the successor to the GBA models. When the time comes the next GameBoy iteration (in terms of being a separate coding platform from a developer's perspective) will adhere to Nintendo's highly successful formula for mainstream handhelds: make it better than the previous model but keep it backward compatible and under $100.
THe DS is an interesting experiment but giving it a GBA compatible cartridge slot in addition to its own helps insure that even if it is ultimatel;y undersupported as a distinct platform those who made the investment will still have access to a massive library of GB titles. The price remains unannounced but I think they have a good shot at a strong launch if they keep it to $150 or less. This is well within the means of teens and older gamers looking for a novelty to show off, not to mention the possibility Nintendo may come up with some must-have games that cannot be readily duplicated elsewhere. Those early numbers can make all the difference in getting devlopers on board.
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I don't "get" the DS. I really don't. I don't see how playing with a stylus, d-pad and a couple of buttons can be fun. I think they're correct in downplaying its importance because if it fails, which I think it will, no one will say they're losing it. Meanwhile if it succeeds they can claim they never thought it would be this big. I can see stylus' being lost in days, parents bitching, them being sold for $5 replacements.
[/quote]
I think you may change your mind when you've had some hands-on time with the DS. The dual screens overcomes a lot of the handicaps in doing 3D games on a small screen. This isn't just an issue of resolution but also display clutter.
Since an older demographic than the GBA is being targeted I doubt there will be many issues with disgruntled parents. This is a higher-end product, not a GBA successor. It delivers quite a lot of improvement to the handheld market without going into the kind of uberdevice complexity and pricing Sony is pursuing.
Nintendo has long been in console decline but I believe they're still on the right track in handhelds.
[/quote]
I think you may change your mind when you've had some hands-on time with the DS. The dual screens overcomes a lot of the handicaps in doing 3D games on a small screen. This isn't just an issue of resolution but also display clutter.
Since an older demographic than the GBA is being targeted I doubt there will be many issues with disgruntled parents. This is a higher-end product, not a GBA successor. It delivers quite a lot of improvement to the handheld market without going into the kind of uberdevice complexity and pricing Sony is pursuing.
Nintendo has long been in console decline but I believe they're still on the right track in handhelds.
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='organicow'][quote name='guyver2077']god nintendo just wake up...
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.[/quote]
I do, thank you very much. In fact, I use my PC, my PS2, and my XBox to go online. However, I would be really happy if you could somehow show me a way to download new content for my Nintendo games using one of my other platforms. Please let me know how to do this.
...oh, wait...you can't??? NO SHIT.
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.[/quote]
I do, thank you very much. In fact, I use my PC, my PS2, and my XBox to go online. However, I would be really happy if you could somehow show me a way to download new content for my Nintendo games using one of my other platforms. Please let me know how to do this.
...oh, wait...you can't??? NO SHIT.
[quote name='organicow'][quote name='Sartori'][quote name='organicow'][quote name='guyver2077']god nintendo just wake up...
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.[/quote]
I do, thank you very much. In fact, I use my PC, my PS2, and my XBox to go online. However, I would be really happy if you could somehow show me a way to download new content for my Nintendo games using one of my other platforms. Please let me know how to do this.
...oh, wait...you can't??? NO SHIT.[/quote]
Sorry man - I'm with the group who doesn't encourage half-assed products with a "patch fix" coming next week. Count me out of that pack.
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
You have a PC. Use it.[/quote]
I do, thank you very much. In fact, I use my PC, my PS2, and my XBox to go online. However, I would be really happy if you could somehow show me a way to download new content for my Nintendo games using one of my other platforms. Please let me know how to do this.
...oh, wait...you can't??? NO SHIT.[/quote]
Sorry man - I'm with the group who doesn't encourage half-assed products with a "patch fix" coming next week. Count me out of that pack.
[quote name='organicow']I'm not talking about patch fixes; I'm talking about things like additional multiplayer maps, new missions, new weapons, etc.[/quote]
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='organicow']I'm not talking about patch fixes; I'm talking about things like additional multiplayer maps, new missions, new weapons, etc.[/quote]
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
that is true; I was just pointing out something that the PS2 and XB have going for them that is lacking in the GC.
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
that is true; I was just pointing out something that the PS2 and XB have going for them that is lacking in the GC.
[quote name='Sartori'][quote name='organicow']I'm not talking about patch fixes; I'm talking about things like additional multiplayer maps, new missions, new weapons, etc.[/quote]
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
The track record thus far on Xbox and PS2 has not been a replication of the PC experience as some predicted. Testing on console products is an immensely simpler undertaking than the same task on a PC version. The occurance of downloads solely to correct bugs has been quite rare on consoles while the benefits in extended gameplay, added levels and various options has been considerable even though the field is still in its infancy.
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
The track record thus far on Xbox and PS2 has not been a replication of the PC experience as some predicted. Testing on console products is an immensely simpler undertaking than the same task on a PC version. The occurance of downloads solely to correct bugs has been quite rare on consoles while the benefits in extended gameplay, added levels and various options has been considerable even though the field is still in its infancy.
[quote name='epobirs'][quote name='Sartori'][quote name='organicow']I'm not talking about patch fixes; I'm talking about things like additional multiplayer maps, new missions, new weapons, etc.[/quote]
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
The track record thus far on Xbox and PS2 has not been a replication of the PC experience as some predicted. Testing on console products is an immensely simpler undertaking than the same task on a PC version. The occurance of downloads solely to correct bugs has been quite rare on consoles while the benefits in extended gameplay, added levels and various options has been considerable even though the field is still in its infancy.[/quote]
Of course it hasn't been a replication - yet. Even I wouldn't expect it to happen soon. The fact of the matter is that these are baby steps that Sony and Microsoft are taking in that direction. Patches, fixes, tweaks, etc. I don't like, agree, or promote the set-top-box ideology and I'd love to see it disappear. Much like Judgment Day (that is to say, Terminator), I feel it's inevitable.
I realize you're purely interested in the positive elements it can offer, but the bad will definitely come with the good, unfortunately.[/quote]
The track record thus far on Xbox and PS2 has not been a replication of the PC experience as some predicted. Testing on console products is an immensely simpler undertaking than the same task on a PC version. The occurance of downloads solely to correct bugs has been quite rare on consoles while the benefits in extended gameplay, added levels and various options has been considerable even though the field is still in its infancy.[/quote]
Of course it hasn't been a replication - yet. Even I wouldn't expect it to happen soon. The fact of the matter is that these are baby steps that Sony and Microsoft are taking in that direction. Patches, fixes, tweaks, etc. I don't like, agree, or promote the set-top-box ideology and I'd love to see it disappear. Much like Judgment Day (that is to say, Terminator), I feel it's inevitable.
PittsburghAfterDark
CAGiversary!
I see no sign of games on consoles being shipped in late beta stages and having a massive 10 meg download the day its released to make up the difference between when the game went gold and hit retail. That's the NORM in PC gaming.
The things that have been "fixed" in Xbox Live games have been exploits in scoring/ranking, bad weapons balance in multi-player and other minor things that users asked for corrections on. Everything else has been glorious new stuff. Mech Assault as shipped compared to all you can download is like half the game online. Crimson Skies has been fantastically supported and is an absolute gem online. Ubisoft has made Rainbow Six 3 and Pandorra Tomorrow the best third party games on Live because of mission, map and gameplay downloads.
Until console makers start half assing games and have "patches" the first time you play it you're a long way from PC land. Now, I have to say... I wish to God the PS2 had a hard drive. I can't even tell you how many glitches and fixes I could have dropped into Champions of Norrath. Buggiest game.... EVAR!
[quote name='organicow'][quote name='guyver2077']god nintendo just wake up...
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
The day Nintendo makes their games online like Xbox and Playstation is the day I stop buying video games. I can't stand the idea that I won't be able to play my Mario, Zelda, or Metroid in 2, 3, 5, or even 10+ years. I have no problem with LAN support and in fact promote this idea. This way, people can setup their own servers not depending on Nintendo or some other party maintaining it. I will (and do) refuse to purchase any game that relies on having a network connection (FF 11 is the first and only FF I do not and will not own).
I also hope Nintendo does not put a hard drive in their future systems. Those things have less life and reliability then a generic 60-Watt light bulb.
Chris
online is now!!!!![/quote]
amen. just think: aside from the multiplayer potential, think of the possible content downloads for Mario, Metroid, RE, even Zelda!!
GET WITH IT, NINTENDO!![/quote]
The day Nintendo makes their games online like Xbox and Playstation is the day I stop buying video games. I can't stand the idea that I won't be able to play my Mario, Zelda, or Metroid in 2, 3, 5, or even 10+ years. I have no problem with LAN support and in fact promote this idea. This way, people can setup their own servers not depending on Nintendo or some other party maintaining it. I will (and do) refuse to purchase any game that relies on having a network connection (FF 11 is the first and only FF I do not and will not own).
I also hope Nintendo does not put a hard drive in their future systems. Those things have less life and reliability then a generic 60-Watt light bulb.
Chris
- Feedback
- 131 (100%)
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']
I see no sign of games on consoles being shipped in late beta stages and having a massive 10 meg download the day its released to make up the difference between when the game went gold and hit retail. That's the NORM in PC gaming.
The things that have been "fixed" in Xbox Live games have been exploits in scoring/ranking, bad weapons balance in multi-player and other minor things that users asked for corrections on. Everything else has been glorious new stuff. Mech Assault as shipped compared to all you can download is like half the game online. Crimson Skies has been fantastically supported and is an absolute gem online. Ubisoft has made Rainbow Six 3 and Pandorra Tomorrow the best third party games on Live because of mission, map and gameplay downloads.
Until console makers start half assing games and have "patches" the first time you play it you're a long way from PC land. Now, I have to say... I wish to God the PS2 had a hard drive. I can't even tell you how many glitches and fixes I could have dropped into Champions of Norrath. Buggiest game.... EVAR![/quote]
This is someone who must have never played Unreal Championship
I see no sign of games on consoles being shipped in late beta stages and having a massive 10 meg download the day its released to make up the difference between when the game went gold and hit retail. That's the NORM in PC gaming.
The things that have been "fixed" in Xbox Live games have been exploits in scoring/ranking, bad weapons balance in multi-player and other minor things that users asked for corrections on. Everything else has been glorious new stuff. Mech Assault as shipped compared to all you can download is like half the game online. Crimson Skies has been fantastically supported and is an absolute gem online. Ubisoft has made Rainbow Six 3 and Pandorra Tomorrow the best third party games on Live because of mission, map and gameplay downloads.
Until console makers start half assing games and have "patches" the first time you play it you're a long way from PC land. Now, I have to say... I wish to God the PS2 had a hard drive. I can't even tell you how many glitches and fixes I could have dropped into Champions of Norrath. Buggiest game.... EVAR![/quote]
This is someone who must have never played Unreal Championship
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
I agree b3b0p. The online thing is overrated. "Content downloads"...sound like an excuse to make a half-assed game in the first place. Now...
Huh?? Those games were on PS1 and 2 ya know. And there are only a handful of those EC-rated edutainment games available. Those do NOT come out more often than other games. I have no idea where you got that from.
I didn't say it's killing games for everybody. I said it's killing (or at lease severely injuring!) gaming for true game players. But no doubt, it's the greatest thing ever for easily impressed morons looking for "THE LASTEST IN GRAPHICS (i.e., overused bump-mapping to make everything look like it's covered in Saran wrap) AND INTERNET MULTIPLAYER GAMING (ie, stupid voice-chat and leagues and crap like that)."
Huh?? Those games were on PS1 and 2 ya know. And there are only a handful of those EC-rated edutainment games available. Those do NOT come out more often than other games. I have no idea where you got that from.
I didn't say it's killing games for everybody. I said it's killing (or at lease severely injuring!) gaming for true game players. But no doubt, it's the greatest thing ever for easily impressed morons looking for "THE LASTEST IN GRAPHICS (i.e., overused bump-mapping to make everything look like it's covered in Saran wrap) AND INTERNET MULTIPLAYER GAMING (ie, stupid voice-chat and leagues and crap like that)."
Reality's Fringe
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 8 (100%)
I buy Nintendo products because I enjoy Nintendo products. I do not need , nord o I have, any other reason. As long as Nintendo is in the business, I'll buy games. And so will "T".
Nintendo will continue to do what Nintendo wants to do. They ignore the trends in the industry, but they do continue to do decently and produce a lot of high quality, innovative games. I've said it before, but I believe Nintendo will stay in 3rd forever. They have their own little niche, and while they will not dominate the market, they will survive.
CoffeeEdge
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 15 (100%)
They will survive? Ya think? We are talking about NINTENDO here. Jeez. Third place in an industry this big is still pretty damn good. And they're only 3rd in home console sales, and only in the US, and they're only about a million behind. Worldwide (which is what matters, business-wise) they're in 2nd place; way ahead of Xbox. It's not even funny how bad Xbox game sales are in Japan. Rarely do you see one in the top 20. And Nintendo is dominating the handheld market, which they practically own (with just one system, wait till they have 2). The GBA is the best selling game device of this generation. Some 20 million GBAs in the US alone is a bit more than a "niche" I think. And the worldwide total for GBA sales, a mind-boggling 65 million, is what I like to call "dominating." And on this subject, 7 million Gamecubes in the US alone a bit more than a "niche," as well. Or does that just not count for anything? They're doing something right, I would think.
Pylis
CAGiversary!
Coffee, you neglected to answer my question. How is the X-Box, Rockstar, or Microsoft declining gaming for the "true gamers," then?
Edit: I've been playing video games since the damned Atari 2600 (and I was born in 1985!), I have all three current consoles, and the X-Box is my favorite of the three, simply because I feel it is the best overall product for one's money. Does this make me not a true gamer, but some easily impressed moron who likes shiny explosions?
Edit: I've been playing video games since the damned Atari 2600 (and I was born in 1985!), I have all three current consoles, and the X-Box is my favorite of the three, simply because I feel it is the best overall product for one's money. Does this make me not a true gamer, but some easily impressed moron who likes shiny explosions?
bread's done