A to Z claim screwed me

Artrigis

Artrigis

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Been selling on amazon for past 3 months, have always heard how terrible an A to Z claim is, but never experienced one.

Just had my first.. terrible experience. I think the buyer intentionally scammed me and knows how to work the system.

Buyer placed an order, then emailed me telling me the item doesn't work. I know for a fact that it does, I test ALL of my games before listing them. I check to see that you can actually play and hold a save, it was perfect.

Responded back, telling him I will authorize the return and if I find it to be defective as he says, then I would be happy to give him a full refund.

I then respond once more, after noticing he didn't request a refund officially. So I told him to do so, so that I can accept it.

3 Hours later, I have an A to Z claim. I tell amazon my case, that I know that it worked. That I offered the buyer to return it to me, and that I would refund him. That I was timely in my responses (I responded in under 24 hours)

Then, once again hours later. I see that the A to Z claim was settled in the buyers favor.

After noticing this, I ask. Well then, where the hell is my game? How could he of already been refunded if I never received my game back?

Well turns out, as per amazon policy. The buyer is not required to send back the item. How is Amazon able to decide for me that the buyer gets to keep the item as well as get a refund? I don't know, but that seems like its on the border of being illegal. Amazon gave away something that they don't own.

I checked up on A to Z policy. The buyer has no grounds to open up the A to Z claim against me. The policy basically reads:

If a buyer contacts a seller and the seller does not respond, or if the seller is unsatisfactory in his response, the buyer is allowed to open an A to Z claim.

When he emailed me, all that I did was tell him that I would accept the return of my item and refund him in full.

Does anyone have any advice for me at all?
 
Without being an asshole, it's really just the cost of doing business on Amazon. I've been selling for a year now and haven't had any problems in close to 100 transactions, but I assume it's inevitable, and just one of those things you have to live with. I can just hope that Amazon keeps tabs on users that abuse the return policies and weed them out quickly.

The worst thing with Amazon is that they don't accept delivery confirmation as proof of receipt, so if someone says they never received the item, even of the Post Office says otherwise you're SOL. The only thing Amazon accepts is signature confirmation, and realistically no buyer wants that hassle, and no seller wants to shell out for that expense out of pocket, it's bad enough as it is that Amazon doesn't pay a realistic amount to cover shipping charges. Sure, $4.99 may be enough to ship a package from Connecticut to New Jersey, but it sure as hell ain't enough to ship it to Oregon.
 
bro, it happened to me 3 times.. it fucking sucks, and you can't do anything about it.. people are just scum

One was the capcom fighting game for the wii ($20)

Another even pissed me off more.. she bought the GUIDE for the collector's edition of zelda (SAID GUIDE IN THE fuckING TITLE). She thought it was the game.. Said she can return it.. she puts in claim. Decided to keep it since she bought the game from someone else (probably scammed him). A-Z said unless SHE emails THEM to say she's keeping it, there's nothing they can do (Even though she put in a fuckING EMAIL TO ME that she was keeping it)..

A third was a $100 textbook that they claimed they never got, yet there was sig. confirmation that they got it..
 
So there really isn't anything to do? I sent off an angry email to Amazon(ugh).. then later sent off a calmer email, citing their own policy and how they broke it in allowing the buyer to create the A to Z claim as I have been nothing but accommodating to the buyer.

Edit: ^^ Sig confirmation didn't even save you.. that is total shit. Based off my sales, Amazon has made a total of $1033.91 from me on sellers fees alone. Yet they are so quick to side with that scummy buyer. Sigh
 
[quote name='Artrigis']So there really isn't anything to do? I sent off an angry email to Amazon(ugh).. then later sent off a calmer email, citing their own policy and how they broke it in allowing the buyer to create the A to Z claim as I have been nothing but accommodating to the buyer.[/QUOTE]

Nope, neither Amazon nor eBay care about the small time sellers, they really only care about the high volume guys that actually make them money. They have the market cornered, and take full advantage of that fact by pandering to buyers and screwing sellers.
 
yeah, you're screwed.. The guide claim I had with the lady lasted THREE Months, and I still got screwed out of it.. People are scum, clear and simple.. everyone wants something for nothing.. I have sold over 200 things on amazon with zero problems, and this fucking stuff happens.. They got their money from their fees, so what do they care about you.
 
So far I've only had this happen to me once and I was very polite to the woman and repeatedly offered a refund as soon as she returned the item to me. She refused to respond to me directly. Eventually Amazon settled the case in her favor but paid it out of their own pocket rather than charging me. I'm sure that's rare, but maybe it does matter how hard you try to work with the buyer and how well you explain your case to Amazon. Or maybe not and I just got lucky.
 
I once wrote on an A - Z claim that the buyer refused to cooperate or communicate further when I clearly stated as the seller that they could return the item, and that their escalation to a claim was unnecessary and perhaps fraudulent. Amazon then denied their claim (in my favor)! I guess it helps to know a little legalese in matters such as this...

What I gathered from speaking to a representative at some length, is that you should always offer an unconditional refund. Just say "Mail it back and I'll refund your money." Once they do so, you actually have some leeway to hit them with a restocking fee or only give them a partial refund. From what I see here, OP's mistake was attaching the conditions of "If the game is defective I'll refund you" and "If you request it, I'll refund you" which could be viewed as an obstruction of the buyer's ability to return the item.
 
[quote name='Indigo_Streetlight']I once wrote on an A - Z claim that the buyer refused to cooperate or communicate further when I clearly stated as the seller that they could return the item, and that their escalation to a claim was unnecessary and perhaps fraudulent. Amazon then denied their claim (in my favor)! I guess it helps to know a little legalese in matters such as this...

What I gathered from speaking to a representative at some length, is that you should always offer an unconditional refund. Just say "Mail it back and I'll refund your money." Once they do so, you actually have some leeway to hit them with a restocking fee or only give them a partial refund. From what I see here, OP's mistake was attaching the conditions of "If the game is defective I'll refund you" and "If you request it, I'll refund you" which could be viewed as an obstruction of the buyer's ability to return the item.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for this advice. What I meant by your first quote. Was that if it was defective I would issue a full refund, meaning if it works I would charge a restocking fee. I think you are right though, and I did consider wording it differently as I do know I have the right to charge a restocking fee but decided against it. I think next time, as I know I have the right to charge a restocking fee. I will just tell them to return it for a refund.

And your second quote, they emailed me inquiring about the return, but never clicked the return button. So there was no way for me to authorize something that hadn't been officially asked for.

Thanks again, looks like good advice.
 
Sorry to hear.... Its happened to me as well. I sold a complete copy of Tomba for PS1 and the buyer claimed that it was the demo version. Long story short - Amazon took the money out of my account and refund the buyer WITHOUT A RETURN. Amazon says that the buyer does not have to return the item if different from the item listing. What BS!
 
[quote name='Artrigis']Thank you for this advice. What I meant by your first quote. Was that if it was defective I would issue a full refund, meaning if it works I would charge a restocking fee. I think you are right though, and I did consider wording it differently as I do know I have the right to charge a restocking fee but decided against it. I think next time, as I know I have the right to charge a restocking fee. I will just tell them to return it for a refund.

And your second quote, they emailed me inquiring about the return, but never clicked the return button. So there was no way for me to authorize something that hadn't been officially asked for.

Thanks again, looks like good advice.[/QUOTE]

Is this return button something new? In the past I've been able to refund an item for any reason, no authorization required. Or maybe what I'm thinking goes through the cancel order option, hmm.

Yeah, dealing with Amazon is weird because they have this image of offering hassle-free refunds, yet their fine print says 3rd party sellers can have their own policies, yet Amazon can overrule these policies--and you're especially vulnerable if you react without contacting Amazon's customer service immediately to learn what kind of wording they look for to fuck you over in a claim situation.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Sure, $4.99 may be enough to ship a package from Connecticut to New Jersey, but it sure as hell ain't enough to ship it to Oregon.[/QUOTE]

What method are you sending by? $4.99 is more than enough to ship a standard video game coast to coast via First Class Mail.
 
[quote name='kodave']What method are you sending by? $4.99 is more than enough to ship a standard video game coast to coast via First Class Mail.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you can get an envelope or bubble mail across for that cheap, but once you start dealing with boxes, forget about it. I sell action figures on Amazon all the time, and Amazon never provides more than $5 for shipping, usually less even, and there's just no way to send a 12X10 package across the coutry for less than $7
 
[quote name='spmahn']Yeah, you can get an envelope or bubble mail across for that cheap, but once you start dealing with boxes, forget about it. I sell action figures on Amazon all the time, and Amazon never provides more than $5 for shipping, usually less even, and there's just no way to send a 12X10 package across the coutry for less than $7[/QUOTE]

Which is why Amazon states you should increase the cost of your product to compensate.
 
[quote name='Porksta']Which is why Amazon states you should increase the cost of your product to compensate.[/QUOTE]

Which is a bogus argument since you're not going to get very far trying to sell items at prices higher than the current minimum. This is why I usually give myself at least a $10 buffer when selling. If I'm not making at least $10 profit on an item, I'm not going to bother selling it, unless it's just something I want to get rid off. The difference between what Amazon gives you for shipping, and the actual cost of shipping can sometimes be upwards of $3 or $4, and there's no real way to recoup that besides only selling items with higher profit margins.
 
As much as I hear you can sell items for more on Amazon than EBay, I really don't like how it sounds like you have little to no chance of winning a dispute. I did have a EBay dispute last year (buyer said the game I sent was repackaged and not new when it was factory sealed when it was really buyer's remorse as they overpaid about $20 for the game when other sellers listed it for less around 10 days later), and although EBay did side with the buyer at least the buyer had to send the item back before they got their money back. Since they never returned it, I got to keep the money.
 
[quote name='spmahn']Which is a bogus argument since you're not going to get very far trying to sell items at prices higher than the current minimum. This is why I usually give myself at least a $10 buffer when selling. If I'm not making at least $10 profit on an item, I'm not going to bother selling it, unless it's just something I want to get rid off. The difference between what Amazon gives you for shipping, and the actual cost of shipping can sometimes be upwards of $3 or $4, and there's no real way to recoup that besides only selling items with higher profit margins.[/QUOTE]

If someone is able to beat the price you want, then the item is probably not worth what you want for it.
 
[quote name='Porksta']If someone is able to beat the price you want, then the item is probably not worth what you want for it.[/QUOTE]

I don't price items based on what I want, I price them based on what I'll get. I'm in business to buy stuff and flip it for a quick turn around, and in order to do that you need to undercut everyone and sell fast. I have no interest in holding onto items and waiting for the right price to come along. Usually it works out fine for me, but you need to good profit margins to combat the high cost of doing business.
 
I had someone claim that I sold them a counterfeit copy of pokemon red, she said because "the colors were off". This dumb bitch was comparing a 13 yr old gameboy game to the current DS games.
 
Sorry to hear that. I've stopped selling on Amazon and sell very little on ebay. It is terrible how easy it is to scam legitimate sellers on ebay. Ive heard of people buying new items and returning broken ones back to get a refund and keep the new item. It sucks.
 
Whenever I sell something I think I might get scammed over on eBay (video games, large bundles of stuff), I take pictures of the entire packing process. (Maybe I'd do video if I had a better recording mechanism.) If its like a sealed new video game, I take pictures of the item, the item going into the bubble mailer with the buyer's address visible, etc etc etc. I know someone could claim I just sent something different despite the pictures, but I'd hope that those pictures would be significant evidence for eBay/PayPal to not screw me over. My theory is they would just write it off as a no fault situation, let me keep my money, and let the seller keep the item. I've seen them do that when I've had to file claims for legitimate reasons.

But usually the instances where I have to do that is rare. If I'm sending a high dollar value item or bundle, I always send it priority mail with insurance and delivery confirmation and signature required, and pass that cost onto the customer while ensuring I still hit my minimal profit margins. Plus pictures of the items and packing process.

The whole picture/video thing only adds a few minutes to the time it takes me to pack and send, so its not a big deal. Once the time to file a claim has passed, I simply delete the pictures.

But luckily I've never had a claim filed against me so I've never had the opportunity to test if the pictures would help or not. And luckily no one has tried to screw me on my "regular" items where I don't have to go through all those extra steps to try and protect myself.
 
If someone decides to rip you off, the Ebay/Amazon rules will let them get away with it most of the time. You simply have to be willing to risk it if you sell there. That's one of the reasons I stopped selling a few years ago.
 
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