Abstience-pushing USAID Bush appointee caught in sex ring bust

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ABC News and the Washington Post are reporting that Deputy Secretary of State Randall Tobias resigned April 27 after confirming to ABC News that he's on Jeane Palfrey's little list. Palfrey is a D.C. madam under prosecution who's been receiving, through her attorney, phone calls from lawyers for various prominent johns begging her not to make their clients' names public. Tobias is administrator of the State Department's foreign aid programs.
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http://www.slate.com/id/2165259/?nav=fix

You really have to read the article for all the past quotes from this guy, but here's a snippet:

PBS' Frontline in March 2005, Randall Tobias: Well, the heart of our prevention programs is what's known as ABC: abstinence, be faithful, and the correct and consistent use of condoms when appropriate. This is not an American invention; this is something that President [Yoweri] Museveni in Uganda figured out over time when he recognized that there was an enormous problem in Uganda.
And it's also not "ABC: Take your pick."
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WOW, that's messed up.

Abstinence only sex education won't work. Obviously you want to try to tell the kids not to have sex or at least wait until they're of some form of mature age -- but just saying, "Don't do it!" will only make someone want to do it more. Kind of like DARE.....
 
Remember, Kids: Abstinence only, unless you go to a professional.

After all the corruption, greed and incompetence of the Bush administration, it's nice to see a good ol' fashioned sex scandal.
 
[quote name='Frontline quoting Tobias']...and the correct and consistent use of condoms when appropriate.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty certain that whoring would be the appropriate time for correct and consistent use of condoms. Randall is completely on-message!
 
Remember, the messenger IS the message, and any, ANY deviation from the message means that any preaching of the message is pure bad faith, and the message itself is meaningless. BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY.

Which is why it is better to have no standards at all. That way, you aren't passing icky judgements... except, you know, on people you perceive to be passing judgements.

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY.

Ten will get you one that not a single name on said madam's list that comes out will be a Democrat (Even in the way that Imus was a 'Republican.')
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Remember, the messenger IS the message, and any, ANY deviation from the message means that any preaching of the message is pure bad faith, and the message itself is meaningless. BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY.

Which is why it is better to have no standards at all. That way, you aren't passing icky judgements... except, you know, on people you perceive to be passing judgements.

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY.

Ten will get you one that not a single name on said madam's list that comes out will be a Democrat (Even in the way that Imus was a 'Republican.')[/quote]

You seem upset - but you shouldn't worry. No number of meth-snorting, boy-fondling, coke-sniffing, whoring, mistress-killing, scientifically ignorant, culturally ignorant, cheating, lying, stealing, sexually closeted self-hating christian leaders and their friends in policy positions will ever rock the true believers.
 
[quote name='camoor']You seem upset - but you shouldn't worry. No number of meth-snorting, boy-fondling, coke-sniffing, whoring, mistress-killing, scientifically ignorant, culturally ignorant, cheating, lying, stealing, sexually closeted self-hating christian leaders and their friends in policy positions will ever rock the true believers.[/quote]

Obviously. BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY
 
By the way, Uganda is one of, if not the only, African country putting a damper on AIDS growth.

Unfortunately, they're using an abstinence program. You know, the kind that doesn't work by definition.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']By the way, Uganda is one of, if not the only, African country putting a damper on AIDS growth.

Unfortunately, they're using an abstinence program. You know, the kind that doesn't work by definition.[/quote]

Of course abstinence works (duh)

I think that making condoms freely available would be more effective - and I'd like evidence of this Uganda program's effectiveness versus that with a less christian themed and more scientifically/sociologically based solution.

I also think it's interesting that you immediately begin marching in lock step with those who share your ideological viewpoints, instead of getting a chuckle out of seeing them hoisted on their own petards. Noone said anything about the actual policy until you, they didn't have to, actions speak louder then words.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']By the way, Uganda is one of, if not the only, African country putting a damper on AIDS growth.

Unfortunately, they're using an abstinence program. You know, the kind that doesn't work by definition.[/quote]

That would be nice if it was true, but it's not. Uganda has used a multifacted approach and given out condoms/subsidized condoms for a long time and only recently have there been reported pressures by the US for more abstinence and a condom shortage.

And the prevalence of AIDS has been dropping there since 1992.
 
[quote name='SpazX']That would be nice if it was true, but it's not. Uganda has used a multifacted approach and given out condoms/subsidized condoms for a long time and only recently have there been reported pressures by the US for more abstinence and a condom shortage.

And the prevalence of AIDS has been dropping there since 1992.[/quote]

Thanks.

Maybe we should also export lots of high-priced escort service ladies to Uganda. After all - Randall Tobias was abstinent and didn't have sex with any of these girls (just massages) so maybe this is another successful avenue for AIDS prevention.

That way we'll only have to tweak the "Be faithful" part of the ABC plan - we could call it the AC-DC plan = Abstinence and Condoms like they do it in DC.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Obviously. BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY[/QUOTE]

I like the fact that you're trying to belittle hypocrisy as a means of judging the performance of the Republican Party. Don't you believe hypocrisy is a fair measure, particularly of people who tend to demonize their opponents as morally unfit? If you're going to take the moral high ground, you'd better walk the talk or prepare to be judged.
 
I look forward to seeing how RollingSkull spins this:

Former U.S. AID director Randall Tobias, who resigned yesterday upon admitting that he frequented a Washington escort service, oversaw a controversial policy advocated by the religious right that required any US-based group receiving anti-AIDS funds to take an anti-prostitution "loyalty oath."
Aid groups bitterly opposed the policy, charging that it "was so broad - and applied even to their private funds - that it would obstruct their outreach to sex workers who are at high risk of transmitting the AIDS virus." But President Bush wouldn’t budge. He signed a 2003 National Security Presidential Directive saying prostitution "and related activities" were "inherently harmful and dehumanizing."
Several groups and countries had their funding cut due to the policy. Brazil lost $40 million for "one of its most successful anti-AIDS strategies, persuading sex workers to use condoms or other measures to stop spreading the disease."
During an "Ask the White House" online chat in 2004, Tobias defended the policy, saying the U.S. was "partnering with communities" to begin "fighting sex trafficking and prostitution, while still serving victims of these activities." Tobias added that he was overseeing several "highly successful" relationship programs "aimed at men and boys to help them develop healthy relationships with women."
A truly inspired idea, having someone who pays for "gals come over to the condo to give me a massage" run programs on developing "healthy relationships with women."
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http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/28/tobias-prostitution/
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200506220752.asp

Well, there's my source for the abstinence thing. :p

I like the fact that you're trying to belittle hypocrisy as a means of judging the performance of the Republican Party. Don't you believe hypocrisy is a fair measure, particularly of people who tend to demonize their opponents as morally unfit? If you're going to take the moral high ground, you'd better walk the talk or prepare to be judged.
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No, and here's why. First, only the straw men shadow Republicans of your dark fantasies constantly belittle their opponents as 'morally unfit'.

Secondly, it conflates the messenger and the message. Basic fallacy.

Third, it has people throwing stones who, generally (But not as applicable here.) don't know ANYTHING about the standards they think they are laughing at.

Fourth, it makes the perfect the enemy of the good. Name one person who never, ever once strayed from their standards, and I'll show you a person who has no standards.

Fifth, and, finally, it stems largely from moral relativism and rhetorically encourages people to never HAVE standards in the first place.

And, camoor, I hate to break it to you, but disagreeing with you does not always mean I'm "marching in lockstep" with Karl Rove or whatever. Geez louise. These are childish rhetorical games I personally am sick of. HYPOCRISY being the greatest of all sins and that abstinence is an EEEVIL CHRISTIAN THING THAT BRINGS NO GOOD WHATSOEVER.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull'] HYPOCRISY being the greatest of all sins and that abstinence is an EEEVIL CHRISTIAN THING THAT BRINGS NO GOOD WHATSOEVER.[/QUOTE]

What was that about strawmen again?
 
[quote name='Msut77']What was that about strawmen again?[/quote]

You're one to lecture me on intellectual consistency...

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY!
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200506220752.asp

Well, there's my source for the abstinence thing. :p[/quote]

Yeah they do use the ABC thing, but the C is condoms, so it's not abstinence-only, which is the problematic strategy.

I don't really think anybody has a problem telling people to be abstinent and faithful (provided it's not trying to convert them to some religion), but there's a problem when condoms aren't available for the people who are fucking.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']You're one to lecture me on intellectual consistency...

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRISY![/QUOTE]

I cannot detect the talking point, you are far too subtle.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Yeah they do use the ABC thing, but the C is condoms, so it's not abstinence-only, which is the problematic strategy.

I don't really think anybody has a problem telling people to be abstinent and faithful (provided it's not trying to convert them to some religion), but there's a problem when condoms aren't available for the people who are fucking.[/quote]
Well, I'm not advocating abstinence only (Though I don't see the fear of icky religion. ;) ). Personally, though, I'd like to think an abstinence-style attitude adjustment is our long-term fix, though. I don't think carpet-bombing Africa with condoms is a good use of our money nor will it help the Africans to help themselves. Condoms aren't exactly diamonds; they shouldn't be that hard to come by that we must provide a condom for every penis for all time.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull'](Though I don't see the fear of icky religion. ;) )[/quote]

I don't have any fear of religion or a problem with religious organizations helping out, I'm just saying that it's not necessary to convert anybody or destroy their culture to keep them from getting AIDS.
 
[quote name='SpazX']I don't have any fear of religion or a problem with religious organizations helping out, I'm just saying that it's not necessary to convert anybody or destroy their culture to keep them from getting AIDS.[/quote]

Yeah - but as any good fundie would say - why not try to do both?
 
[quote name='SpazX']I don't have any fear of religion or a problem with religious organizations helping out, I'm just saying that it's not necessary to convert anybody or destroy their culture to keep them from getting AIDS.[/quote]
Bah, relativism. Or at least self doubt. Not a country today was founded on thinking like that. :p How many cultures do you think were stomped out, assimilated, or twisted to get today's Africa?
 
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