Amazon: Metal Gear Solid 4 Playstation 3 BC 80gb - Now in stock
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[quote name='DKYang']This just had to come out after a bought a PS3 from ebay with 30% CB. Oh well, I'd rather not sign up for a credit card just to get a good deal on this. I think I'll be happy with the newer PS3s. I still have my big fat PS2 if I ever feel like playing a PS2 game.[/QUOTE]
Ha! Same here. I've at least got the slim ps2 though - still, it has some hiccups when playing DVD's which makes me wonder how much life is left in it.
More importantly: There's a LOT of talk on here about BC and non-BC ps3's. I have the 80gb coming to me (not the MGS bundle) and will arrive soon. Would somebody mind explaining the Backwards Compatibility issue? I thought they were "all" BC, but that some systems required you to download software and others had the BC feature built in. Am I missing something?
Ha! Same here. I've at least got the slim ps2 though - still, it has some hiccups when playing DVD's which makes me wonder how much life is left in it.
More importantly: There's a LOT of talk on here about BC and non-BC ps3's. I have the 80gb coming to me (not the MGS bundle) and will arrive soon. Would somebody mind explaining the Backwards Compatibility issue? I thought they were "all" BC, but that some systems required you to download software and others had the BC feature built in. Am I missing something?
silent h3ro
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Newer Ps3 models don't have the Ps2 graphics chip built in like the 80GB MGS4 and Motorstorm bundles did. Those bundles were missing the Emotion Engine however and that is why software emulation is used. The launch 20GB and 60GB models had both the PS2 Emotion Engine and the graphics chip built in.
[quote name='Jesse_Dylan']Once PS2s stop selling well, Sony will magically discover a way to offer backward compatibility to PS3 owners via a downloads (probably for each game).[/quote]
I won't be surprised if they eventually just add the Graphics Synthesizer back into the hardware after sufficient cost savings have been achieved in other areas. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that they do, if a decent pure-software BC solution can't be worked out by the time PS2 sales have flatlined and Sony is getting ready to roll out the 'PS3 Slim.'
My personal ideal situation for buying a PS3: In time for Final Fantasy XIII's US release in mid-2010, Sony has released the PS3 Slim which comes with a 320GB hard drive, is BC enabled, and retails for $200. Maybe there will even be a FF13 pack-in bundle. Make it happen Sony!
I won't be surprised if they eventually just add the Graphics Synthesizer back into the hardware after sufficient cost savings have been achieved in other areas. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that they do, if a decent pure-software BC solution can't be worked out by the time PS2 sales have flatlined and Sony is getting ready to roll out the 'PS3 Slim.'
My personal ideal situation for buying a PS3: In time for Final Fantasy XIII's US release in mid-2010, Sony has released the PS3 Slim which comes with a 320GB hard drive, is BC enabled, and retails for $200. Maybe there will even be a FF13 pack-in bundle. Make it happen Sony!
SnotRocket
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Backwards capable is worth the money. Thanks!
[quote name='chosen1s']Ha! Same here. I've at least got the slim ps2 though - still, it has some hiccups when playing DVD's which makes me wonder how much life is left in it.
More importantly: There's a LOT of talk on here about BC and non-BC ps3's. I have the 80gb coming to me (not the MGS bundle) and will arrive soon. Would somebody mind explaining the Backwards Compatibility issue? I thought they were "all" BC, but that some systems required you to download software and others had the BC feature built in. Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
All PS3s use S/W BC for PS1 games.
For PS2 games, it's more complicated:
60GB, 20GB PS3s = full H/W BC (Emotion engine + graphics synthesizer)
80GB Motorstorm, MGS4 bundles = partial H/W BC (graphics synthesizer) + emulated Emotion engine
All others = no PS2 BC
So your 80GB system will not run PS2 games, unless it's a Motorstorm or MGS4 bundle.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Retail_configurations
More importantly: There's a LOT of talk on here about BC and non-BC ps3's. I have the 80gb coming to me (not the MGS bundle) and will arrive soon. Would somebody mind explaining the Backwards Compatibility issue? I thought they were "all" BC, but that some systems required you to download software and others had the BC feature built in. Am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
All PS3s use S/W BC for PS1 games.
For PS2 games, it's more complicated:
60GB, 20GB PS3s = full H/W BC (Emotion engine + graphics synthesizer)
80GB Motorstorm, MGS4 bundles = partial H/W BC (graphics synthesizer) + emulated Emotion engine
All others = no PS2 BC
So your 80GB system will not run PS2 games, unless it's a Motorstorm or MGS4 bundle.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Retail_configurations
[quote name='Ryuukishi']I won't be surprised if they eventually just add the Graphics Synthesizer back into the hardware after sufficient cost savings have been achieved in other areas. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that they do, if a decent pure-software BC solution can't be worked out by the time PS2 sales have flatlined and Sony is getting ready to roll out the 'PS3 Slim.'
My personal ideal situation for buying a PS3: In time for Final Fantasy XIII's US release in mid-2010, Sony has released the PS3 Slim which comes with a 320GB hard drive, is BC enabled, and retails for $200. Maybe there will even be a FF13 pack-in bundle. Make it happen Sony![/QUOTE]
Companies never go backwards on cost savings. The GS isn't coming back.
The current rumor is that Sony already has software-based BC ready to go. Variations on this rumor state that either they are waiting for the PS2 to die before releasing it, so as to not cannibalize sales, or that they are going to use it to sell downloadable PS2 games on PSN, or both.
My personal ideal situation for buying a PS3: In time for Final Fantasy XIII's US release in mid-2010, Sony has released the PS3 Slim which comes with a 320GB hard drive, is BC enabled, and retails for $200. Maybe there will even be a FF13 pack-in bundle. Make it happen Sony![/QUOTE]
Companies never go backwards on cost savings. The GS isn't coming back.
The current rumor is that Sony already has software-based BC ready to go. Variations on this rumor state that either they are waiting for the PS2 to die before releasing it, so as to not cannibalize sales, or that they are going to use it to sell downloadable PS2 games on PSN, or both.
donburns99
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Have watched the stock go from about 48 down to 3 within the last hour.
It's painful to pass up, but just out of my price range for now.
Edit: It's back up to49 56 now. Where is Amazon getting them from I wonder.
It's painful to pass up, but just out of my price range for now.
Edit: It's back up to
fidgeteer
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[quote name='Justin42']Is it now possible to downgrade firmware[/quote]
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/category/3
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=87996
However, I just learned something unfortunate: the Motorstorm/MGS 80GB requires at least 2.51 FW. This means I'd have to find a used PS3 6OGB (long gone on gamefunk) to pursue the project I thought would be so easy to implement. I really wanted to avoid spending $1000 on the Miroslav Vitous sample library.
Two things one immediately notices about SACD: A richer but non-fatiguing high end -- the sizzle of open highs without the harshness of that 1.5k notch (the frequency emitted by old TVs) used to fake quality on certain CDs, which means that strings and cymbals sound more natural -- and what audiophile crits sometimes call the "black screen": a completely black background behind the recording. Listening to orchestral music on a well-mastered SACD is like watching bioluminescent fish swim in a wide aquarium in the dark.
Another feature of many SACD players is the ability to upsample 44.1 CDs to 192. (My Philips does this; so does the PS3.) People who like to upscale PS2 games on a PS3 should definitely try it. People who think the effect looks fake should probably avoid the audio equivalent and stick with oversampling. This is not to say the two techniques are the same. It is to say they involve a similar aesthetic decision which a number of purists find objectionable.
Personally, I listen both ways depending on the recording.
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/category/3
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=87996
However, I just learned something unfortunate: the Motorstorm/MGS 80GB requires at least 2.51 FW. This means I'd have to find a used PS3 6OGB (long gone on gamefunk) to pursue the project I thought would be so easy to implement. I really wanted to avoid spending $1000 on the Miroslav Vitous sample library.
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/2007/02/20/bypass-the-ps3-firmware-check/
No one expects it to return. That version was for devs.
Does your collection include any of the Analogue Productions masters of Bill Evans? If not, I recommend them; I also recommend the DGG SACD of Boulez conducting Mahler's 9th. I tend to hate rock because I've had to play it in studios too often, but if you have other suggestions, I'm open to them.
Two things one immediately notices about SACD: A richer but non-fatiguing high end -- the sizzle of open highs without the harshness of that 1.5k notch (the frequency emitted by old TVs) used to fake quality on certain CDs, which means that strings and cymbals sound more natural -- and what audiophile crits sometimes call the "black screen": a completely black background behind the recording. Listening to orchestral music on a well-mastered SACD is like watching bioluminescent fish swim in a wide aquarium in the dark.
Another feature of many SACD players is the ability to upsample 44.1 CDs to 192. (My Philips does this; so does the PS3.) People who like to upscale PS2 games on a PS3 should definitely try it. People who think the effect looks fake should probably avoid the audio equivalent and stick with oversampling. This is not to say the two techniques are the same. It is to say they involve a similar aesthetic decision which a number of purists find objectionable.
Personally, I listen both ways depending on the recording.
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fidgeteer
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[quote name='ma']The current rumor is that Sony already has software-based BC ready to go. Variations on this rumor state that either they are waiting for the PS2 to die before releasing it, so as to not cannibalize sales, or that they are going to use it to sell downloadable PS2 games on PSN, or both.[/quote]
Let's hope they learned from the minidisc and give (I hate this neologism) "prosumers" what they demand before it's too late, by which time specialized outrage has penetrated mass culture and led to total indifference. This is not the best economic climate for another standoff ploy.
It's interesting how the strategies of major companies (Sony, Apple) suggest a war with consumers: they win if you're forced or fooled into buying the right product for too much money or the wrong product instead.
I love the idea of a BC PS3 with newer, cooler and quieter hardware. I'd take a hit personally, since I paid $499 for the BC 80GB, but in the cold Trailways bus depot of life, my little detour wouldn't matter: the PS3's rep would improve dramatically.
Let's hope they learned from the minidisc and give (I hate this neologism) "prosumers" what they demand before it's too late, by which time specialized outrage has penetrated mass culture and led to total indifference. This is not the best economic climate for another standoff ploy.
It's interesting how the strategies of major companies (Sony, Apple) suggest a war with consumers: they win if you're forced or fooled into buying the right product for too much money or the wrong product instead.
I love the idea of a BC PS3 with newer, cooler and quieter hardware. I'd take a hit personally, since I paid $499 for the BC 80GB, but in the cold Trailways bus depot of life, my little detour wouldn't matter: the PS3's rep would improve dramatically.
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[quote name='ma']Companies never go backwards on cost savings. The GS isn't coming back.[/quote]
The Slim PS2 had a broadband modem integrated into its design, when that had previously been an accessory sold separately from the console, no? I'm thinking along those lines.
The Slim PS2 had a broadband modem integrated into its design, when that had previously been an accessory sold separately from the console, no? I'm thinking along those lines.
[quote name='ma']All PS3s use S/W BC for PS1 games.
For PS2 games, it's more complicated:
60GB, 20GB PS3s = full H/W BC (Emotion engine + graphics synthesizer)
80GB Motorstorm, MGS4 bundles = partial H/W BC (graphics synthesizer) + emulated Emotion engine
All others = no PS2 BC
So your 80GB system will not run PS2 games, unless it's a Motorstorm or MGS4 bundle.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Retail_configurations[/QUOTE]
That makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for clarifying. Looks like I'm holding on to my ps2 for a while. This is good info though. My parents have been thinking about the ps3 as a blu-ray option with the idea that when people visit they can also have a game system to play. This might be the way to go. The one I got was around $200 after the MS cashback deal...
For PS2 games, it's more complicated:
60GB, 20GB PS3s = full H/W BC (Emotion engine + graphics synthesizer)
80GB Motorstorm, MGS4 bundles = partial H/W BC (graphics synthesizer) + emulated Emotion engine
All others = no PS2 BC
So your 80GB system will not run PS2 games, unless it's a Motorstorm or MGS4 bundle.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Retail_configurations[/QUOTE]
That makes perfect sense. Thanks so much for clarifying. Looks like I'm holding on to my ps2 for a while. This is good info though. My parents have been thinking about the ps3 as a blu-ray option with the idea that when people visit they can also have a game system to play. This might be the way to go. The one I got was around $200 after the MS cashback deal...
Jesse_Dylan
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I'm still expecting them to unveil full, downloadable software backward compatibility for (most) PS2 games once PS2 system sales begin to flag.
I think they're nuts for not having some kind of backward compatibility in all the units. It's a huge selling point.
I think they're nuts for not having some kind of backward compatibility in all the units. It's a huge selling point.
silent h3ro
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Yeah I also won't be surprised if we see software emulation to be released in new PS3 consoles later on. The PS2 is an old console and it should not be difficult at all to emulate on the PS3.
Jesse_Dylan
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[quote name='silent h3ro']Yeah I also won't be surprised if we see software emulation to be released in new PS3 consoles later on. The PS2 is an old console and it should not be difficult at all to emulate on the PS3.[/quote]
I read somewhere that it takes roughly 8-16x the hardware power of the system you're emulating to emulate the system. But of course this is PlayStation architecture, so emulating PS2 on PS3 would be much easier than on, say 360, or even on PC.
Anyway, my point is that it's possible, and I think they will do it. (But then again, if it was possible, why did they put PS2 hardware in the original PS3s?)
Well, whatever. I don't plan to let go of my PS2, but I'm really disappointed at how they dropped the backward compatibility ball. They dropped a lot of balls this generation, and I really want to see them picked back up again.
I read somewhere that it takes roughly 8-16x the hardware power of the system you're emulating to emulate the system. But of course this is PlayStation architecture, so emulating PS2 on PS3 would be much easier than on, say 360, or even on PC.
Anyway, my point is that it's possible, and I think they will do it. (But then again, if it was possible, why did they put PS2 hardware in the original PS3s?)
Well, whatever. I don't plan to let go of my PS2, but I'm really disappointed at how they dropped the backward compatibility ball. They dropped a lot of balls this generation, and I really want to see them picked back up again.
donburns99
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[quote name='Jesse_Dylan']Well, whatever. I don't plan to let go of my PS2, but[/quote]That's generally a good idea regardless. The system a game is made for is always the best to play it on.
From what I hear (and have seen with the PS2 on PSX games) playing a previous-gen game on a newer system causes more strain on system, specifically the laser. (playing PSX on PS2, playing PSX/PS2 on PS3)
Whenever I play PSX games on PS2, I notice a lot more stress on the eye then when playing a PS2 game. It seems to get even worse when you play back-ups and imports too.
From what I hear (and have seen with the PS2 on PSX games) playing a previous-gen game on a newer system causes more strain on system, specifically the laser. (playing PSX on PS2, playing PSX/PS2 on PS3)
Whenever I play PSX games on PS2, I notice a lot more stress on the eye then when playing a PS2 game. It seems to get even worse when you play back-ups and imports too.
Jesse_Dylan
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[quote name='donburns99']That's generally a good idea regardless. The system a game is made for is always the best to play it on.
From what I hear (and have seen with the PS2 on PSX games) playing a previous-gen game on a newer system causes more strain on system, specifically the laser. (playing PSX on PS2, playing PSX/PS2 on PS3)
Whenever I play PSX games on PS2, I notice a lot more stress on the eye then when playing a PS2 game. It seems to get even worse when you play back-ups and imports too.[/quote]
Well, I've got both a US and an Asian PS2, so I play my imports on an imported system. Never been much for modding consoles. I dunno, though; it shouldn't be any extra strain on the system. It's not doing anything it wasn't designed to do. It's running proprietary emulation software.
PSOne and PS2 games on PS3 are apparently upscaled quite nicely if you have an HD television.
From what I hear (and have seen with the PS2 on PSX games) playing a previous-gen game on a newer system causes more strain on system, specifically the laser. (playing PSX on PS2, playing PSX/PS2 on PS3)
Whenever I play PSX games on PS2, I notice a lot more stress on the eye then when playing a PS2 game. It seems to get even worse when you play back-ups and imports too.[/quote]
Well, I've got both a US and an Asian PS2, so I play my imports on an imported system. Never been much for modding consoles. I dunno, though; it shouldn't be any extra strain on the system. It's not doing anything it wasn't designed to do. It's running proprietary emulation software.
PSOne and PS2 games on PS3 are apparently upscaled quite nicely if you have an HD television.
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