America Is On A Path To Economic Recovery

[quote name='Zodiii']On another note, I don't see how people don't take Socialism or Communism to be demeaning to their character on the basis that most things are handed to them[/QUOTE]

That never bothered all that many people in any system I can think of.

I don't think the Waltons today or the spawn of say the Hohenzollerns in the past had much trouble rationalizing things handed to them, I don't think most proles would struggle either.

Not to put it too finely but much of what you see, especially in this country is people angry at other peoples socialism.
 
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Even I can admit that Communistic philosophy works, and I actually have no issue with it, as long as it's totally optional and voluntary i.e, on a communal level.

For reasons myke did a good job of explaining above, having small communities work for each other and help each other by pooling resources tends to work very well in human societies. In fact, that's human nature.

Something goes seriously afoul, though, as soon as the Communistic group grows beyond the hard limits of the human monkey sphere. In fact, that's probably the biggest reason all types of large government fails - once leaders are governing statistics and graphs instead of people, it's all going to crumble pretty quickly.
 
[quote name='Zodiii']Which is probably the most important thing to consider. Now I want to look back at the French revolution, which if I am recalling from memory correctly basically came about through the same steps the Marx proposed, and resulted in a non-communist government.

Maybe Marx assumed some kind of period of enlightenment that will/has happened somewhere in between then and now? I'm not familiar enough with him or his ideologies to make any kind of assumption beyond that.[/QUOTE]
The French aren't that far along the steps you posted. If they had formed a communist government it would have meant skipping a few of those steps. Not that its some kind of agreed upon set of steps or anything.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']His revolution is one that is built on the foundation that the masses recognize the futility of class consciousness, so those who revolt know better than to return to a stratified structure when the structure takes place.

Of course, the premise of his concept of history is that it is marked by constant class conflict (even in hunter/gatherer societies), so one great revolution leading to an abandonment of that which divides us into classes is quite naive in itself, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. A classless society, though it sounds very nice, is unlikely. I think it just goes back down to the general fact that most people are dicks and will back stab and claw their way to where they want to be.

[quote name='Msut77']I don't think the Waltons today or the spawn of say the Hohenzollerns in the past had much trouble rationalizing things handed to them, I don't think most proles would struggle either.

Not to put it too finely but much of what you see, especially in this country is people angry at other peoples socialism.[/QUOTE]

It's hard to compare the elite to the working-class, though.

Are you saying people angry at the "family socialism" that is seen in the elite, or something else?

I will definitely agree with you that people are angry at that, as a lot of the anger seems to be moving more and more towards class differences and a dislike/distrust for the general elite (who actually run most everything). If that is what you were saying. And that brings up yet another moral dilemma: At what point do you draw the line of being 'Too Rich/Powerful', and how do you even deal with that?

My friends, for the most part, feel they should have their money and power stripped from them, but is that the right thing to do? I really couldn't tell you.
 
[quote name='Zodiii']It's hard to compare the elite to the working-class, though.[/quote]

Not really.

People are people and in this case I don't think all that many people (especially people born or grew up with nothing) are offended by being "given" healthcare, a decent job etc. anymore than someone given a large inheritance.

IMHO people would find a way to tell themselves they deserve it or better yet earned it.
 
[quote name='speedracer']I wish we could dovetail reality to see what would have happened without stimulus bills. What I would give for that data, even if it totally invalidates everything I think. Just to know.[/quote]

I'd dearly love to see that too, although of course we never will for obvious reasons. But yeah, I too am not above accepting the possibility that I am wrong.

[quote name='speedracer']I look at what got us there. A financial sector that rewards failure. A metric asston of residential and commercial loans that aren't worth the ink on them. An unwillingness to decouple health care costs from the job market. A toothless SEC. Not enough IRS boots on the ground to keep people honest. I don't see significant structural change.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post. I would disagree only with the IRS bit. The problem is not the IRS being too small or impotent (they are, in fact, the opposite), but that the tax code is too complicated and hard to enforce.
 
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