American economy: what's gonna happen?

Of course Kennedy had his share of screwups. Everyone does but when you're a politician at the national level let alone president, people tend to remember it more.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']The Bay of Pigs incident is all I can think of.[/quote]
The failed invasion of a country is no small deal.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']The Bay of Pigs incident is all I can think of.[/quote]

Buying into the domino theory has to rank up there as one of the biggest screw-ups in US history.
 
[quote name='camoor']Buying into the domino theory has to rank up there as one of the biggest screw-ups in US history.[/QUOTE]

So damn true!
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Saved the world from nuclear war.[/QUOTE]

Kennedy decided to play chicken with Khrushchev, and luckily they blinked. Wasn't exactly a highlight on the ol' diplomacy scale. More of a point of what didn't happen than did.

He authorized a two-year old invasion plan without really reading it.

He basically helped train Sadaam Hussein to commit genocide.

He committed the US to failure in Vietnam by going at it half-assed until Johnson decided to stop pussyfooting around. He should have either done it right, or not done it at all.

He failed to push a total nuke test ban treaty.

Almost all of his domestic policies were only carried out after he was killed. It's unclear if any of them would have gone through otherwise.

To be perfectly honest, Kennedy would be held in much less regard had he served out his term.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']The only hope this country has is a complete overhaul of government as it exists right now.

There are too many people with conflicts of interest in Washington. The whole back scratch culture makes it really easy for anyone with major party affiliation to be swayed into making decisions based on the almighty dollar instead of the betterment of society. It doesn't matter if you are Democrat or Republican. They are the political equivalent of the Bloods and Crips with each side doing whatever it takes to maintain control at the expense of the innocents around them. The two-party system needs to go the way of the dinosaur and people need to think freely instead towing party lines. The only problem with that is Independants will never have the power to affect such change because the current system is too deeply rooted into everyday life.[/QUOTE]

Wow. Nominated for post of the week. I haven't seen more truth in one post around these parts in months.

Bravo, good sir.

Problem is, even though you are right, people are really not interested in the "real change" you speak of. They just want to get excited about candidates that wrap "change" up into an even bigger state of dependency.

It honestly amazes me that so many people want to Europeanize our government. They should just immigrate there.
 
[quote name='HuppSav']
You can't compare Obamma to Clinton and Reagan. Obamma actually wants to help everyone the best he can. [/QUOTE]

Nothing personal but this is the type of rhetoric that makes me lose faith in this country. And it scares the shit out of me.

The overall entitlement mentality we have cultivated in this country over the past century is the real problem.

The most help the Federal government can be is if they get out of the way.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Nothing personal but this is the type of rhetoric that makes me lose faith in this country. [/QUOTE]

If you do not like it why don't you get out of my country?

Seriously GTFO.
 
[quote name='Msut77']If you do not like it why don't you get out of my country?

Seriously GTFO.[/QUOTE]

Because I like my country currently and I don't want my country to "change" into dependency land like Europe. I will stay and fight with my vote, and any other way I know how, to keep it/return it to a true land of opportunity for those that are willing to bust their asses.

If it does end up another welfare heavy, "it takes a village", pseudo-euro land full of dependents with a massive stagnant middle class population - like you and so many seem to want, trust me I will leave.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']trust me I will leave.[/QUOTE]

Why wait? You obviously hate this country and most of its population and there is no doubt America would be better off without you.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Why wait? You obviously hate this country and most of its population and there is no doubt America would be better off without you.[/QUOTE]

And you are obviously delusional. Show where I said that. And stop putting words in my mouth.

Go back to gamefaq's where you can get away with acting like an imbecile.
 
Well, in the world of idiots, not liking how the country is run = not liking the country.

It's one thing if you aren't interested in being part of the process.
 
Yeah, that worked really well for Bush back in the early days of his presidency. Don't like the government= you're a terrorist.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Kennedy was like that too. However, he turned out to be a great president. I think that if he can just achieve even half of what he has talked about, he would be a great president. I know it is a bit of a gamble, but he is the only candidate that actually wants to change this country for the better, and I agree with him on his stance on issues. I believe that he will do what he says he will, and we will have a better America.



True. The reason I support Obama, is he is the only candidate who might change this country for the better. We really need that now.[/quote]

I always hear people say, "Change the country for the better". What is Obama going to change? You mean his health care plan? His health care plan is a joke.

I'm not against Obama, really i'm either voting for him or McCain, but what's Obama going to change?
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']I always hear people say, "Change the country for the better". What is Obama going to change? You mean his health care plan? His health care plan is a joke.

I'm not against Obama, really i'm either voting for him or McCain, but what's Obama going to change?[/quote]

He could allow Congress to slow or stop the $12B per month being pissed away in Iraq.

That, in and of itself, won't make or break the economy, but it would be the step in the right direction.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']He could allow Congress to slow or stop the $12B per month being pissed away in Iraq.

That, in and of itself, won't make or break the economy, but it would be the step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

And thanks to all the remaining senators and representatives in Congress that aren't about 'change,' that money will just be diverted elsewhere and we still won't see any benefit of it.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Do you even read what you write?



I guess not.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. So calling you an imbecile means I hate my country.....

Wow.:applause:
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Interesting. So calling you an imbecile means I hate my country.[/QUOTE]

All that it means is that even you are unable to read and understand your incoherent postings.
 
Alright as I posted earlier in this thread or another one, not liking the way the country is headed does not equate to not liking the country. Please someone tell me what is wrong with wanting things to change for the better. Just because you don't agree with the direction another person wants the country to take doesn't mean they don't like the country or aren't a patriot. It just means they have different opinions on how to improve the country. We need different opinions so that we don't just assume our way is best or become narrow minded like many of the politicians, only voting along party lines. I may not always agree with everything thrustbucket says but I appreciate the different viewpoint he brings.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_bi_st_ma_re/wall_street

"Wall Street rebounded sharply Tuesday after the Federal Reserve and other central banks said they will pump $200 billion into the financial markets to help ease the strain from the credit crisis."

I'm thinking inflation.

Thanks, FR, I was getting sick of paying only $3.00 for a gallon of milk.[/quote]

This was a terrible move. The federal reserve basically is replacing all of those junk bonds (mortgage based) with TREASURY BASED BONDS. You know who finances those? Tax payers. Swap JUNK for something half-way worthwhile.

It was a good day to sell if you were able to get your head back above water.
 
[quote name='Msut77']All that it means is that even you are unable to read and understand your incoherent postings.[/quote]Or perhaps you're the one with the comprehension issue?

Let me break it down for you:

1. thrustbucket likes America--maybe he even loves his country!
2. He doesn't necessarily like what has been done and/or might be done with the administration of said country.
3. He has ideas of how he would like things to be done that would improve the country overall.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his points, saying he should just leave the country if he doesn't like how things are going makes you look silly, bud. Part of liking/loving something is wanting what's best for it and not abandoning it the second things start to go a little sour. In fact, abandoning it would be the last thing you'd want to do if you really care about it!

But, of course, it's easier to tell someone to "leave my country if you hate it so much" than to come up with a calm, rational points to discuss where your views diverge from his, isn't it?
 
[quote name='daroga']Or perhaps you're the one with the comprehension issue?[/QUOTE]

Not at all, I for one have actually read what the idiot in question writes. You evidently have not.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Not at all, I for one have actually read what the idiot in question writes. You evidently have not.[/quote]I rest my case.
 
[quote name='daroga']I rest my case.[/QUOTE]

You would have had to have had a case first.

Your post is an admission that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.
 
[quote name='Msut77']You would have had to have had a case first.

Your post is an admission that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.[/quote]Nope, not one bit. Not at all. COMPLETE MORON RIGHT HERE!

Because, as we've already established disagreeing on any issue, big or small, is tantamount to one or more of the following:

1) Treason
2) Loathing of the concept of "good"
3) Being devoid of logical processes
4) Something else really bad

If you didn't understand my post, I'm sorry. I can try to state it again for you if that would help.

Once again, though, it's easier to just say "You're an idiot and I'm right" and move on even in something as silly as this, eh?
 
And you ignore the meat of yet another post. Cool! :roll:

I'll reecho was sweeetja713 said above as well as what I said. Just because someone posts a position different that yours doesn't make them wrong. But, if you want to talk about it, then talk about it. If you want to ignore it, then ignore it. Your "GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!" attitude is very akin to arguing about which Transformer was the coolest at recess in 1st grade. "No way! I'm right! You smell!"

I know it can be scary when someone has ideas that are different than yours. It can be especially scary when those ideas, perhaps, make you reconsider your preconceived notions about how things ought to be. But we can work through this together. Or at least we could, but you seem more content to insult people rather than talk. In which case, I guess we're done here.
 
[quote name='daroga']And you ignore the meat of yet another post.[/QUOTE]

There is no substance to your last few posts. You can keep asserting there is but that makes no difference, the funny thing is that you have basically admitted you almost never read thrustbucket's posts and you have no idea what you are talking about. Your last several posts are nothing but inane twaddle based on faulty premises.
 
[quote name='Msut77']There is no substance to your last few posts. You can keep asserting there is but that makes no difference, the funny thing is that you have basically admitted you almost never read thrustbucket's posts and you have no idea what you are talking about. Your last several posts are nothing but inane twaddle based on faulty premises.[/quote]

And you have still failed to point out where thrustbucket states that he hates this country. Once again he doesn't agree with the way things are going right now but that doesn't equal hate. He may be a bit more temperamental than some in his arguments but that doesn't mean he doesn't love his country. Please quit saying we don't understand or see it and show us where he says he hates his countries or even postings that you may view as hating this country. Give us something to debate rather than just saying well I've read it and you haven't. I assure you I've read this entire thread and you have yet to give one piece of supporting evidence.
​
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']And thanks to all the remaining senators and representatives in Congress that aren't about 'change,' that money will just be diverted elsewhere and we still won't see any benefit of it.[/quote]

Well, yeah, but ... I don't really have a counter.
 
[quote name='sweeetja713']Once again he doesn't agree with the way things are going right now but that doesn't equal hate. [/QUOTE]


It goes far, far beyond that. Have you ever read anything he has written outside of this thread? Get back to me when you do.
 
[quote name='Msut77']It goes far, far beyond that. Have you ever read anything he has written outside of this thread? Get back to me when you do.[/QUOTE]

Look, friend, all you need to do is copy and paste quotes of me saying I hate this country. That's all. Then everyone will leave you alone and stop making you look like a bitter person with a grudge.

I do sometimes get temperamental, as sweetja713 says. I'll be honest, I often come into this forum when I am really frustrated at work and want to vent some steam. Sue me. I'm human. I apologize to anyone that I may have offended in the past. I'm a nice guy, I promise :)

The guys above have represented me very well. I summarize it like this:

I really like my country. It makes no sense to me why someone would go through so much trouble to change this country to be like another country, when it would be much easier to move to one of those other countries. That's all.

America is still unique. It's still very different, for good or bad. I like how it's different. I want it to stay different. I want free market to reign supreme and the Fed to stay the hell out of the way. That's all.

I came across a really interesting article today by playwright David Mamet entitled "Why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal". Don't let the inflammatory title fool you, it's actually a very well thought out and interesting article that summarizes very well where I'm coming from. I suggest anyone read it. I considered making a new thread on it for discussion but I have a feeling it would just attract bomb throwers.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']The guys above have represented me very well.[/QUOTE]

That is hilarious because both of them have pretty much admitted they do not read almost anything you write.

I really like my country.
Click to expand...

Here is the thing, you do not love this country so much as you are in love with a mythological past golden age. As for the actual country, my country and the country of all of us who dwell in reality you despise it and all of its inhabitant but a tiny number of like minded people.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']The guys above have represented me very well.[/QUOTE]

That is hilarious because both of them have pretty much admitted they do not read almost anything you write.

I really like my country.
Click to expand...

Here is the thing, you do not love this country so much as you are in love with a mythological past golden age. As for the actual country, my country and the country of all of us who dwell in reality you despise it and all of its inhabitant but a tiny number of like minded people.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Short Answer: American Peso.[/quote]

*appears*

Did someone say American Psycho? Oh .. no .. no you didnt.

*diappears*
 
[quote name='Msut77']That is hilarious because both of them have pretty much admitted they do not read almost anything you write.[/quote]

Quit putting words in people's mouths. Nowhere did I state I haven't read almost anything thrustbucket writes. I have kept up with the majority of the threads in this forum, a large number of which thrustbucket has posted in. I've already stated that I don't agree with everything he has to say but you've still failed to point out one shred of evidence that says he doesn't love this country. All I've asked is that you rationally defend your allegations and you've failed to do so. You've given no evidence for any of your points. This best support you've given is read his posts. We have and still don't see your point. Unless you can support your statements all you're going to get are people that disagree with you and some flames.
 
thrust, why do you keep posting? You're obviously confused about what you think. Msut77 has very plainly told you what you think, so start thinking it. His opinions about your opinions are fact. I don't care if you say you disagree with his opinion of you, nor can I even take into account an apology or two for overstating points or blowing up from time to time. That didn't happen. Msut knows the truth and he's informed all of us. You can't stop the signal, my friend. He's read what you've written!

Oh, wait... that doesn't make a lick of sense. I take it all back.

Back on topic from this current insanity, can someone fill in someone like myself who is admittedly rather ignorant of big sweeping trends in economics, especially in regard to what the Feds did yesterday? Was their bail-out a stop-gap solution? I've heard really good things about it and really bad things about it. I get lost in the jargon a bit. :p
 
[quote name='sweeetja713']I've already stated that I don't agree with everything he has to say but you've still failed to point out one shred of evidence that says he doesn't love this country.[/QUOTE]

So when you say you do not agree with everything he has to say are you talking about all the times when thrust tells people to leave? Those people being the 90 plus percent of the country he accuses of being evil commies? Because you were strangely absent those times, using the power of deductive reasoning one must assume that you missed them.

Did you ever read his post where he expresses his wish to bring the United States back to the Great Depression? How about the time he said wanted to "reset" everything even though he admitted he has no idea how that would work even in theory.
 
[quote name='Msut77']So when you say you do not agree with everything he has to say are you talking about all the times when thrust tells people to leave? Those people being the 90 plus percent of the country he accuses of being evil commies? Because you were strangely absent those times, using the power of deductive reasoning one must assume that you missed them.

Did you ever read his post where he expresses his wish to bring the United States back to the Great Depression? How about the time he said wanted to "reset" everything even though he admitted he has no idea how that would work even in theory.[/quote]

Really me not responding means I haven't read it? Wow than I haven't read a single deal on this site or just about anything on any other subforum and yet I could've sworn I read threads from across the board.

Despite your obvious exaggerations of thrust's views, no I don't agree when thrust tells people to leave the country. I actually went after him on that point in another thread which since you never posted in, by your logic you obviously didn't read it. No I'll admit I didn't read the post where you claim he wished to revert back to the great depression, however I have strong feeling you're taking that out of context. As far as wanting to reset everything that means he wants sweeping major changes, what's wrong with that? I want critical communication scholars to get their words and views out to the masses. Guess what I have no idea how to do that in theory or practice but it doesn't mean I can't work on it or at the very least express my views.
 
[quote name='sweeetja713']Really me not responding means I haven't read it?[/QUOTE]

That would be the only logical conclusion assuming there is no particular reason for selective outrage.


Despite your obvious exaggerations of thrust's views
Click to expand...

I did not exaggerate, I sort of wish I did but no that is almost verbatim what he wrote.
 
[quote name='Msut77']That would be the only logical conclusion assuming there is no particular reason for selective outrage.[/quote]

Of course there's a particular reason for selective outrage. I've already mentioned my reason in this thread and another. I get pissed off when people say or imply that if you don't like the way the country is to leave it. I don't like the way the country is right now but that doesn't mean I don't love the country itself. Wanting the country to be better is probably the truest form of patriotism I know.

Furthermore, I don't see how the logical conclusion for me not responding to a post is because I didn't read it. There are many posts that I read that I don't respond to because either I don't care, I can't argue my point effectively enough, I agree with the post, I'm don't feel like responding, or someone has beaten me to the point.

Do you respond to every single post you read? No, you selectively choose which ones to respond to. Even your first post in this thread was a selective response to thrust. You didn't comment on other people's posts.
 
[quote name='daroga']
Back on topic from this current insanity, can someone fill in someone like myself who is admittedly rather ignorant of big sweeping trends in economics, especially in regard to what the Feds did yesterday? Was their bail-out a stop-gap solution? I've heard really good things about it and really bad things about it. I get lost in the jargon a bit. :p[/quote]

Let's say you lose your job, your credit cards are maxed out and bill collectors are harassing you day and night.

For some reason, your credit card's limit is increased.

Are you better off if you use the new limit to pay your current bills?

...

OK. Let's look at a bigger picture.

If the Fed's $200B starts a massive round of job creation, the economy as a whole will be better off for the long term.

If the Fed's $200B starts a massive round of debt enlargement, the economy will be better off for a few months and then crash even harder.
 
[quote name='sweeetja713']Of course there's a particular reason for selective outrage. I get pissed off when people say or imply that if you don't like the way the country is to leave it.[/QUOTE]

It can be pretty bothersome especially when someone (like thrust) does it all the time. The selective part refers to how you seem to have ignored the roughly over 9000 times thrust tells people to leave.

Here is the kicker, I am being specific i.e. the country would be better off without thrust. thrust on the other hand is telling the majority of the country to leave.
 
From a thread you've posted in so maybe you've read it, but here's me disagreeing with thrustbucket on telling people to leave if they want to change the constituition.

[quote name='thrustbucket']What is my ilk?

I simply happen to like the constitution. I like most of how the country was originally set up. I don't like how it's changed since the new deal. What's wrong with that?

Seriously, it makes no logical sense to stay here if you disagree. If you don't like how this country was founded, if you want to change the constitution rather than enforce it, then why not go to a "better" country? There are millions of people in the world that would love to trade places with a despondent America hating American.[/quote]

[quote name='sweeetja713']Funny, I thought our country was founded on change. Isn't that the reason we have the ability to amend the constitution, in case something needs changed? Our founders foresaw the fact that we would need change over the years. Why does everyone think being a patriot means blindly following the government. Some of the truest patriots want to change the country for the better.

It doesn't take a genius to see we're heading for some bad times right now and something does have to change. I'm not saying Obama or anyone else is the answer but at least it's a step in the right direction.[/quote]

Basically I criticized him for the exact same thing I've criticized you for. What's the difference? Thrust was willing to acknowledge my points and come back with supported counterpoints. The reason the argument with you is still going on is because you've failed to do so.
 
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