Are there any PS3 developers who frequent this forum? If so I have a question...

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Infinity Ward claims they are unable to add Dualshock 3 support to Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare as it would require a complete code-rewrite.

Now, I can look at a list of games that have had this support added in and I am hazarding to guess I'm not getting the full story from IW. To make things worse, the 360 version does feature rumble so I imagine they know exactly the timings for the code to make the controller shake.

Not only that, but I imagine Call of Duty: World at War will feature Dualshock 3 support, so would they possibly be able to easily port that code for rumble to Modern Warfare?

I just feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick. I bought the game and the map pack and I'd readily spend another $2.00 to get rumble. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I like my games to be complete.
 
Irregardless of whether they can or cannot, CoD4 is no longer a concern for them. The game has made its money and future development for it is pretty much a lost cause unless they can take another set of PC maps and toss it on the consoles for their X-Mas bonuses.

Continued investment in a game that has made its run is just bad business :(
 
[quote name='dyeknom']Irregardless of whether they can or cannot, CoD4 is no longer a concern for them. The game has made its money and future development for it is pretty much a lost cause unless they can take another set of PC maps and toss it on the consoles for their X-Mas bonuses.

Continued investment in a game that has made its run is just bad business :([/QUOTE]

That's definitely the economics of it. But seeing less successful games that have added the feature is rubbing salt in the wound.
 
i bet the other games already had the framework for rumble put in them just in case while infinity ward didnt even bother

i dont really think you can compare ps3 game coding to 360 coding for games and respective rumble.....od4 was probably developed on one and then ported to the other...might have started on the 360 and to make the port easier they left out rumble
 
[quote name='lanleague']...and I'd readily spend another $2.00 to get rumble.[/quote]

There's your problem... not worth their trouble, especially since not everyone would get it no matter what the price.
 
They're too busy swimming in money to care about PS3 owners.
 
They're too busy swimming in money to care about PS3 owners.
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Damn them for making such a good game. Why not just blame Sony for not having rumble from the get go? Infinity Ward has moved, as should you.
 
I don't even play COD4 anymore but I think it's pretty weak they couldn't throw in rumble. I mean, the game is the most online played PS3 game. Who isn't playing COD4? It couldn't have strained them too bad to at some point patch the game.
 
Yeah, I found IWs PS3 support really lacking. One late map pack, no playlist update in like 9 month, no rumble, or trophies. The next CoD better make up for it.
 
[quote name='miyamotofreak']Yeah, I found IWs PS3 support really lacking. One late map pack, no playlist update in like 9 month, no rumble, or trophies. The next CoD better make up for it.[/QUOTE]

Yep.

Why do you think the COD4 map pack was half price on XBL/PSN recently?

So they can squeeze a couple of bucks out of all of us before we move on to COD5.

Sony's partially at fault for late implementation of rumble (and their trophy concept is another example, given the inconsistent support of new titles - which will, hopefully, be mandatory sooner than later), but this provides us with some interesting insight into who are caring (perhaps a better word could be used) developers, who offer free upgrades and trophy support (e.g., Criterion Games' support for Burnout Paradise), and who are the careless developers who seems to think you can fuck right off, since they already got your $60.
 
Plus they never properly fixed the PS3 version of COD4. They promised to fix that host ending game crap, almost a year later, and it's still going on. They didn't even attempt to. They made a great game for sure, but their support of it is piss poor. Hell, they're not as bad as Ubisoft with Rainbow Six Vegas 2, but they're still bad. Why can't they all be like the Burnout and Warhawk team? *sighs*
 
[quote name='Blackout']Plus they never properly fixed the PS3 version of COD4. They promised to fix that host ending game crap, almost a year later, and it's still going on. They didn't even attempt to. They made a great game for sure, but their support of it is piss poor. Hell, they're not as bad as Ubisoft with Rainbow Six Vegas 2, but they're still bad. Why can't they all be like the Burnout and Warhawk team? *sighs*[/quote]
YES. The host ending and party system are broken. Just broken.
 
Hmm... Well some of the content for Warhawk you had to pay for too. The burnout crew, I guess should get some praise. though what they added could have been included in the game already right? At least you don't have to pay for it.

The Warhawk crew should get the most praise because of their community support right from the start. Even before the start, with all their pre-beta discussions and support through that process.
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']Hmm... Well some of the content for Warhawk you had to pay for too. The burnout crew, I guess should get some praise. though what they added could have been included in the game already right? At least you don't have to pay for it.

The Warhawk crew should get the most praise because of their community support right from the start. Even before the start, with all their pre-beta discussions and support through that process.[/quote]
Well my topic on the Infinity Ward forums was immediately locked for posing this question so they shoot that in the foot.
 
I don't like the lack of post support that IW has given to the game. No trophies, updated playlist,... I agree, however I do have to appreciate them for churing out an excellent version of CoD4 on the PS3. CoD4 is by no means a sloppy port. HOnesly, though, do we really need more Call of Duty? an extra map or two, can provide severals months of extra development time for their new project. No need to rush CoD4 off to the pastuer, its still one of the top played games online... so its still very relevant, and I hate to see CoD4 laid to rest prematurely, because of the next CoD game...
 
[quote name='Thomas96']I don't like the lack of post support that IW has given to the game. No trophies, updated playlist,... I agree, however I do have to appreciate them for churing out an excellent version of CoD4 on the PS3. CoD4 is by no means a sloppy port. HOnesly, though, do we really need more Call of Duty? an extra map or two, can provide severals months of extra development time for their new project. No need to rush CoD4 off to the pastuer, its still one of the top played games online... so its still very relevant, and I hate to see CoD4 laid to rest prematurely, because of the next CoD game...[/QUOTE]

Activision needs several million more increments of $60 than you need a new COD. But people won't realize that, and they'll go right ahead and delve into another copy on day 1.
 
Well you have to give IW credit, as they really raised bar visually, and for making sure their PS3 version was on par with the 360 from day 1. Yeah, it may have be neglected since, but they still deserve credit for the prior.

Their statement is true, that all code would require a rebuild, to add rumble. Rebuilding is really the quickest/easiest part; maybe an hour of the machine crunching. As they would already have rumble hooks in their code for the 360, it really wouldn't have been that hard for them to add, just a matter of hookin into Sony's updated (w/ rumble) libs.

But then they would have to thoroughly test it, then they would have to resubmit to Sony, which takes weeks. I think it was not a case of it be difficult, but more about it taking up 3 weeks of a handful of peoples time. I am assuming they looked at the economics, and decided a rumble patch would not really add many more sales to justify their extra cost... not sure.

Anyways, I don't really have a firm opinion on it, but no one had techinically answered your question, so there you have it.

~S
 
[quote name='snowsquirrel']Well you have to give IW credit, as they really raised bar visually, and for making sure their PS3 version was on par with the 360 from day 1. Yeah, it may have be neglected since, but they still deserve credit for the prior.


~S[/quote]

So they did what they were supposed to do? Why shouldn't the PS3 version be on par with the 360 version? They don't get credit for doing what they should have done. They get credit for an amazing game, but not for that part IMO.
 
[quote name='Zyzomys']Damn them for making such a good game. Why not just blame Sony for not having rumble from the get go? Infinity Ward has moved, as should you.[/QUOTE]Actually, that's because MS had part ownership in Immersion and Sony would basically be paying MS to get rumble. That's why it wasn't there early on. And despite Sony now getting it, most actually got most all their money back, which sucks. It's a confusing situation.

The reason CoD4 has no rumble is all IW and Activision's fault. They are both really crappy when it comes to supporting old games. Developers were given the chance to implement rumble 4+ months before CoD4 came out, but IW chose not to bother with implementing it (R&C Future came out before it and had rumble). They said they couldn't go back and implement it. That's partially true, but it would have taken more time to implement, so they ignored. IW/Activision didn't want to bother with trophies either. Remember how Activision wanted to block a patch to make the GH3 guitar work on RB? Activision and IW are all about money. They don't see adding trophies and rumble making them money, so they don't care. The created the map pack because it would make them money.

I know IW doesn't give a crap because the CoD4 servers are crap (way too many host disconnects, invites don't work part of the time, can't reconnect with party, doesn't even show all your buddies playing online unless you reset the game, and a crazy number of headset issues). There's just so much wrong with CoD4 online. When compared to the Warhawk devs and Criterion, there may have been problems early on, but they fixed them and continue adding features making their games much better. Servers for those games couldn't be better actually.

It all just comes down to IW/Activision not carrying. They could maybe implement it, but they are happy enough already making tons of money and are now trying to develop their sci-fi shooter next, Their sci-fi shooter will get rumble and trophies, because they ARE a requirement (rumble became a requirement mid this year, and trophies are required in every game coming out in 2009 and above).
 
[quote name='snowsquirrel']Well you have to give IW credit, as they really raised bar visually, and for making sure their PS3 version was on par with the 360 from day 1. Yeah, it may have be neglected since, but they still deserve credit for the prior.

Their statement is true, that all code would require a rebuild, to add rumble. Rebuilding is really the quickest/easiest part; maybe an hour of the machine crunching. As they would already have rumble hooks in their code for the 360, it really wouldn't have been that hard for them to add, just a matter of hookin into Sony's updated (w/ rumble) libs.

But then they would have to thoroughly test it, then they would have to resubmit to Sony, which takes weeks. I think it was not a case of it be difficult, but more about it taking up 3 weeks of a handful of peoples time. I am assuming they looked at the economics, and decided a rumble patch would not really add many more sales to justify their extra cost... not sure.

Anyways, I don't really have a firm opinion on it, but no one had techinically answered your question, so there you have it.

~S[/QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that rewriting the code is being used to confuse those who don't understand videogame programming? (That it would be an insurmountable task taking a significant amount of labor and time)
 
Other anonymous devs have said it would take a junior programmer 3-4 hours work to enable rumble, especially with the hooks already having been notated.

Trophies - a day's work with a small team at most.

I'll be buying the next IW CoD game, used.
 
[quote name='dallow']Other anonymous devs have said it would take a junior programmer 3-4 hours work to enable rumble, especially with the hooks already having been notated.

Trophies - a day's work with a small team at most.

I'll be buying the next IW CoD game, used.[/quote]

Source on this? I really think people need to start complaining to the developers about this.

I am a paying customer 9twice if you count the maps) and I want to get features that should be in the game already.

If they can't at a minimum fix the online server issues and implement rumble I too will not put any cash into their pockets.
 
[quote name='lanleague']Source on this? I really think people need to start complaining to the developers about this.

I am a paying customer 9twice if you count the maps) and I want to get features that should be in the game already.

If they can't at a minimum fix the online server issues and implement rumble I too will not put any cash into their pockets.[/quote]

It doesn't matter if you don't buy the game. Three other people will just take your place. I've talked to my friends about the PS3 version and none of them seem to care that the game is missing features seen on the other console. It's like we should all be happy they even bothered making the game.
 
[quote name='dallow']Other anonymous devs have said it would take a junior programmer 3-4 hours work to enable rumble, especially with the hooks already having been notated.

Trophies - a day's work with a small team at most.

I'll be buying the next IW CoD game, used.[/quote]
That's not true. MGS4 had people dedicated to working only on Rumble. Maybe if it was a really simple or half-assed implementation. And trophies all depend on what kind of trophies they are. Really half-assed ones could take a couple days to make + 3 week follow up.
 
[quote name='miyamotofreak']That's not true. MGS4 had people dedicated to working only on Rumble. Maybe if it was a really simple or half-assed implementation. And trophies all depend on what kind of trophies they are. Really half-assed ones could take a couple days to make + 3 week follow up.[/quote]
Well, like has been stated, the rumble hooks are already available via the 360 port they did.
 
[quote name='miyamotofreak']That's not true. MGS4 had people dedicated to working only on Rumble. Maybe if it was a really simple or half-assed implementation. And trophies all depend on what kind of trophies they are. Really half-assed ones could take a couple days to make + 3 week follow up.[/quote]Rumble code is already there from the 360 version.
They don't need to research when or how to use rumble, they already know. It simply needs to be patched in.

[quote name='lanleague']Source on this?[/QUOTE]Well, he wasn't so anonymous. Just a game programmer who works for a company who does this very thing for various other bigger devs. Just his own thoughts on another forum, and other programmers agreed.

I don't care anymore.
 
Even if the trophies are half ass quickies, just put them in there, spend the day and help to make you're product more profitable. 360 proves that having the achievement system in place, and also having online enbled games does help to get some additional sales. Devs talk about how expensive it is to develop games, and how there's so much risk involved in making a game. I'm not saying this isn't true, because I'm sure it is.. but why not include these little features that don't cost much to implement, and they can help the game gain some additional sales. Do what it takes to make the game more profitable, its like Devs (some) won't take an extra step unless someone forces them to do so. Devs like the freedom that Sony provides, but to put force maxium effort (to implement extra features) they have to be forced to do so. I've heard some devs complain about MS, as they are very strict about the games. But looking at this situation, it seems that MS has the right idea about how to deal with some of these lazy devs.
 
Ever since it was announced that IW's next CoD will come out in 2009 do you really expect them to work anymore on CoD4? Especially when it has already sold so much and any more profits they might make as a direct result of adding rumble will not be enough to be bothered with it. Seriously, who didn't buy this game on the PS3 due to lack of rumble or trophies for that matter?
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Ever since it was announced that IW's next CoD will come out in 2009 do you really expect them to work anymore on CoD4? Especially when it has already sold so much and any more profits they might make as a direct result of adding rumble will not be enough to be bothered with it. Seriously, who didn't buy this game on the PS3 due to lack of rumble or trophies for that matter?[/QUOTE]

It's them setting a precedent for how they will treat PS3 players. No updates, no support = not fine with me.
 
[quote name='lanleague']It's them setting a precedent for how they will treat PS3 players. No updates, no support = not fine with me.[/quote]

You are sounding like no support is something new for game developers and manufacturers.... They are "treating" you just like any other commercial transaction... which is the same way it has been since "gaming" has gone mainstream.

My suggestion: Start a group on facebook.
 
[quote name='dyeknom']You are sounding like no support is something new for game developers and manufacturers.... They are "treating" you just like any other commercial transaction... which is the same way it has been since "gaming" has gone mainstream.

My suggestion: Start a group on facebook.[/quote]

If I were whining it'd be an entirely different matter. Simply put, I'm not.

I think we need to let developers know we expect equal support for cross-platform games. Look at the Orange Box on the PS3 versus the 360 and even the PC.
 
[quote name='lanleague']
I think we need to let developers know we expect equal support for cross-platform games. Look at the Orange Box on the PS3 versus the 360 and even the PC.[/quote]

This is not the fault of the developers. It is the fault of the parent company or the team in which those developers are on.

A lot of people here seem to not understand how development teams and cycles work. Developers often develop a product for a period of time. The product gets released and there then exists minimal support for that product after release in a large majority of cases. Most of these dev teams for larger companies either get abolished, or the people move on to different games/teams inside of the same company.

Some companies are very good about keeping members on for support. Other companies simply don't care and rotate developers around. You can bet that some of the same people who work on one game turn around and work on a completely different game for that company.

It's often not "up to developers" to decide when and where to fix problems with games. It's up to the parent company and publishers to find time and resources towards fixing these problems. A lot of these parent companies simply either don't have the resources anymore to devote to fixing those products (or adding new features), or simply don't care. They have your money. Why rush to fix something?
 
[quote name='Blackout']So they did what they were supposed to do? Why shouldn't the PS3 version be on par with the 360 version? [/quote]
Totally valid. I am not arguing against that. I am just saying that they were the first to actaully do it. Most were neglecting it, because there were almost 3x more 360's out there at the time.

I would also suggest that most of your anger should be directed at Activision, not IW. It would be their $$$ that paid for the patch, and related costs, thus their responsibiliity to initiate. Activision most likely already had IW working on another game by the time it hit shelves. So they Activision would have to give to the greenlight to pull people off of the new game to work on this one.

Just look at Activision's history with other games like GH3, and you'll see how much they care about patches and DLC.

Regarding MGS4 example, putting rumble in a fresh game takes time. But if a game already has it for one platform, it would be simple to add it for another. Trust me.

~S
 
[quote name='Malik112099']Ever since it was announced that IW's next CoD will come out in 2009 do you really expect them to work anymore on CoD4? Especially when it has already sold so much and any more profits they might make as a direct result of adding rumble will not be enough to be bothered with it. Seriously, who didn't buy this game on the PS3 due to lack of rumble or trophies for that matter?[/QUOTE]

There are some people who probably bought a 360 for this game, instead of the PS3, due to the inclusion of rumble and trophies. This game came out before trophies and rumble was really established by Sony. However, with other platform games, like GTA - lack of trophies could have lead to some people buying the game on 360 rather than PS3. Why people buy games is hard to directly measure; but I think we can be sure rumble and trophy support are factors that people at least consider when choosing to purchase any title.


Just because the PS3 had a smaller user base is a poor excuse for a dev to not provide them with a version of their game that's on par with the competition. There's money to be made from all consoles, so I think each dev needs to provide games that are on par with each other, by doing so (in the PS3s case) it'll help to grow the user base of the console. By helping the PS3 to grow its user base, that's more potential sales that devs can make on their game
 
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[quote name='Thomas96']There are some people who probably bought a 360 for this game, instead of the PS3, due to the inclusion of rumble and trophies. This game came out before trophies and rumble was really established by Sony. However, with other platform games, like GTA - lack of trophies could have lead to some people buying the game on 360 rather than PS3. Why people buy games is hard to directly measure; but I think we can be sure rumble and trophy support are factors that people at least consider when choosing to purchase any title.[/quote]
GTAIV just got trophies.
 
I remember hearing it often mentioned on 1upYours that IW was developing both versions concurrently, rather than finishing one and porting it to the other. Maybe that has something to do with the difficulty; perhaps the "hooks" aren't really there.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']However, with other platform games, like GTA - lack of trophies could have lead to some people buying the game on 360 rather than PS3. Why people buy games is hard to directly measure; but I think we can be sure rumble and trophy support are factors that people at least consider when choosing to purchase any title.[/quote]

Lets be serious..GTA sold more on the 360 for 2 reasons:

1. More people own a 360 = more copies on that respective console will be sold (just like every other multiplatform game out there)

2. Exclusive DLC

it had nothing to do with trophies or rumble on the PS3
 
[quote name='Thomas96']
Just because the PS3 had a smaller user base is a poor excuse for a dev to not provide them with a version of their game that's on par with the competition. There's money to be made from all consoles, so I think each dev needs to provide games that are on par with each other, by doing so (in the PS3s case) it'll help to grow the user base of the console. By helping the PS3 to grow its user base, that's more potential sales that devs can make on their game[/quote]

Well if the goal of a developer is to make money, then dedicating more time to the platform that will sell less, thus make less money, does make some sense.

As long as there is a platform for people to play their game on, the dev shouldn't care which platform people buy it for. It is not IW's job to move PS3's, when they can just sell it on 360.

Does it suck, yeah. But in a non-utopian world, it is a reality. Be happy, with PS3 numbers way up, I don't think you will see it neglected anymore.

Speak with your wallet. Avoid Activision games.
~S
 
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