Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[quote name='thrustbucket']It may actually work. Lots of states are mulling over near-coppies of the bill, so Obama is being forced to address a topic that he clearly wanted to avoid most of his presidency.[/QUOTE]

Can't blame him - most recent presidents have as well.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']LoLA

Yeah, that boycott is gonna last about as long as Seattle's...[/QUOTE]

The most shocking part of that story was the fact that Seattle pays over 3 and a half grand per month to operate one camera.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']No.

And if you were paying attention, you would know it doesn't go into effect until July 28th.[/QUOTE]

You got me. I didn't know laws in Arizona don't go in effect until three months after the legislature adjourns.
 
the underlying problem is crime; which can be committed by both citizens and non-citizens.

the real targets shouldn't be 'illegals,' but rather criminals, and repeat offenders.

prevention is key, along with core family values, and the understanding of social norms.

address the issues at the roots, parenting and education. individual accountability and responsibility.
 
Wait just a bleeding heart minute, I thought CNN was part of the librul media? Shouldn't Cafferty have said he agreed completely with what Calderon said?
 
[quote name='Mospeada_21']the underlying problem is crime; which can be committed by both citizens and non-citizens.

the real targets shouldn't be 'illegals,' but rather criminals, and repeat offenders.

prevention is key, along with core family values, and the understanding of social norms.

address the issues at the roots, parenting and education. individual accountability and responsibility.[/QUOTE]

Illegals are criminals.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']You know, even local police usually concentrate on apprehending violent criminals above non-violent ones.[/QUOTE]

so we should put less focus and resources on the illegal activity in the stock market and corporations and other non violent financial crimes and more focus on violent crimes right? Oh wait, rich people crimes should be punished more because they are rich, thats how justice works!
 
like it or not, political corruption takes the front seat. screw drug trafficking, violent offenders, etc.

thats the way it is. watch the wire.
 
[quote name='Knoell']so we should put less focus and resources on the illegal activity in the stock market and corporations and other non violent financial crimes and more focus on violent crimes right? Oh wait, rich people crimes should be punished more because they are rich, thats how justice works![/QUOTE]

Yeah, I seem to remember people calling for the head of Bernie Madoff on a stick. His crimes were no more or less violent than someone illegally crossing the border.
 
[quote name='Don Chubo']Illegals are criminals.[/QUOTE]

Because they're here taking all those high paying jobs away.

I wonder what would happen to all the apartment complexes and landlords in this country if all illegals disappeared. You thought the last housing crisis was bad.....
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Yeah, I seem to remember people calling for the head of Bernie Madoff on a stick. His crimes were no more or less violent than someone illegally crossing the border.[/QUOTE]

Yep, but its different because bernie madoff ruined a ton of peoples lives, how is one little illegal immigrant even comparable? They shouldn't have to pay the consequences and penalties of breaking the law. /sarcasm
 
[quote name='depascal22']Because they're here taking all those high paying jobs away.

I wonder what would happen to all the apartment complexes and landlords in this country if all illegals disappeared. You thought the last housing crisis was bad.....[/QUOTE]

no one said a word about jobs, cares about jobs, or plans on talking about illegals having jobs. the fact is, they are criminals.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Because they're here taking all those high paying jobs away.

I wonder what would happen to all the apartment complexes and landlords in this country if all illegals disappeared. You thought the last housing crisis was bad.....[/QUOTE]

In every other country in the world, if you are there without permission or proper documentation, you are are committing a crime. In fact, in the majority of countries, they don't think it's as cute as you and the left does, they take it very seriously.

Hell, have you ever researched what Mexico does to illegal aliens to their southern borders? When I lived in Canada I talked to several people from other Latin countries that immigrated to Canada. If I asked them why they didn't just cross the border into the U.S. they almost always mentioned having to go through Mexico as a deterrent, and tell me horror stories they have heard of those that have tried. Too risky. They just waited to get into Canada legally, because it's much much easier and cheaper while almost being the same.

It continues to amaze me that you ramble on with the rhetoric you do, yet you just can't come out and admit you want to abolish all immigration laws. If you did so, at least you'd be consistent.
 
The left pols think it's cute because they can pander to a very large group of potential voters, thereby solidifying their hold on power - rule of law and the best interests of the country they have pledged to serve be damned.
 
I'm still waiting for someone that has problems with this law to offer a good solution to the immigration problem, or at least admit they think it isn't a problem.

Everyone's a critic of everyone's solutions but nobody has a better solution. Sounds like Congress.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Yeah and the 'cans don't do that at all. This law itself panders to conservatives.[/QUOTE]

I love the, "well I know its wrong, but the other side does it" argument, it is classic
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I'm still waiting for someone that has problems with this law to offer a good solution to the immigration problem, or at least admit they think it isn't a problem.

Everyone's a critic of everyone's solutions but nobody has a better solution. Sounds like Congress.[/QUOTE]

One solution would be to make the immigration process easier. The other would be to completely seal off the border instead of half assing it.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I'm still waiting for someone that has problems with this law to offer a good solution to the immigration problem, or at least admit they think it isn't a problem.

Everyone's a critic of everyone's solutions but nobody has a better solution. Sounds like Congress.[/QUOTE]You mean illegal immigration problem, right?

I've already said, make it easier to become a citizen. Then we can listen to people bitch and moan about legal immigrants.
 
I'm all for making the immigration process easier.
But I also support making those who have broken the law to get here and stay here be blacklisted from immigrating into the country (short of an asylum-type situation).
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']so you want us to reward people who came here illegally with citizen ship and say that the problem is magically fixed?[/QUOTE]I thought the problem was that they were illegal, let them become legal, problem solved, right?

I figured Bob would say something to that extent.
 
I skimmed through some of the 34 pages but I think its about time we looked well into Mexico's own treatment of our people and why we need stricter laws in place for illegal immigration.Mexico has a strict illegal immigration policy, they will throw your ass in jail if they found out your an illegal...and they do not deport you back to America either, you will stay there for months if not years. And trust me, you don't want to be in those jails compared to the US jails. They will not feed you, they take away your civil rights, and they do not give you any medical attention. So why the heck should we be lenient on people breaking our laws here? Even the Mexican president insulted our President about our immigration laws, AT THE WHITEHOUSE, and flippin Dems got up and applauded the Mexican president, Obama did nothing either, except give the guy a State dinner...WTF, what does that say about our socialistic government and President.

Also found this post later which sums up most of my post, but more eloquently:

"Felipe Calderon has the balls to come to America and "influence" our President after:

1) Endorses "his people" coming here.

2) Spouts off from his ass about how 'harsh' our laws are, yet won't mention how harsh Mexico's laws against Illegal Immigrants on their soil.

3) Has the nerve to judge what we do.

4) Doesn't get his own nation in order, allows rampant crime, no control over police forces, incursions into OUR AIR SPACE by his military.

And then Obama invites him for a hand job at the steps of the white house and calls us "friends" and "allies"????????

Bite me Calderon and Obama."
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I figured Bob would say something to that extent.[/QUOTE]

To do otherwise would be akin to changing the law so what Madoff did was legal and then letting him out of prison.
 
Seanicus, I'm pretty sure we (the US) criticize countries and judge what they do ALL THE TIME. See China's human rights violations, Iran/SaudiArabia's treatment of women, France's laws against burkas, Switzerland and minourets, etc. 3 is a moot point.

Also, please explain how our government and president are socialistic. I hear that word thrown around a lot. Obama's far-left base is extremely angry with him. It therefore seems strange that people are calling him this far-left marxist socialist fascist. Does not compute.
 
I don't think the solution is to emulate ANY of Mexico's laws at this point. Why would we copy the immigration policy for a country that people are trying to flee like the Titanic? Do you guys even read what you write anymore?
 
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[quote name='IRHari']Seanicus, I'm pretty sure we (the US) criticize countries and judge what they do ALL THE TIME. See China's human rights violations, Iran/SaudiArabia's treatment of women, France's laws against burkas, Switzerland and minourets, etc. 3 is a moot point.

Also, please explain how our government and president are socialistic. I hear that word thrown around a lot. Obama's far-left base is extremely angry with him. It therefore seems strange that people are calling him this far-left marxist socialist fascist. Does not compute.[/QUOTE]
It's an easy insult that the conservatives can rally behind.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I don't think the solution is to emulate ANY of Mexico's laws at this point. Why would we copy the immigration policy for a country that people are trying to flee like the Titanic? Do you guys even read what you write anymore?[/QUOTE]

If we copy Mexico's immigration policy people will flee like the Titanic? Where's the sign up sheet to get on board with that at?
 
[quote name='IRHari']Seanicus, I'm pretty sure we (the US) criticize countries and judge what they do ALL THE TIME. See China's human rights violations, Iran/SaudiArabia's treatment of women, France's laws against burkas, Switzerland and minourets, etc. 3 is a moot point.

Also, please explain how our government and president are socialistic. I hear that word thrown around a lot. Obama's far-left base is extremely angry with him. It therefore seems strange that people are calling him this far-left marxist socialist fascist. Does not compute.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, what should be criticized more? the harsh mexican laws against illegal immigration or our law the requires Arizona police to confirm the citizenship of an individual already under investigation. The fact is that Calderon came here and insulted us, and criticized our laws, and the democrats jumped up and applauded him. Like he is any kind of visionary, his immigration policy is far, far, FAR worse than ours.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...w-overlooks-mexicos-tough-immigration-policy/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/wolf-bli...-the-defensive-over-mexicos-immigration-laws/

Get a grip on reality, you are being played.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I don't think the solution is to emulate ANY of Mexico's laws at this point. Why would we copy the immigration policy for a country that people are trying to flee like the Titanic? Do you guys even read what you write anymore?[/QUOTE]

Who said we should emulate their laws? We simply want to confirm the citizenship of those already under investigation by the police, and you are comparing this to mexicos terrible illegal immigration laws against central americans?
 
[quote name='depascal22']I don't think the solution is to emulate ANY of Mexico's laws at this point. Why would we copy the immigration policy for a country that people are trying to flee like the Titanic? Do you guys even read what you write anymore?[/QUOTE]

I never said emulate Mexico's immigration laws. But Mexico's president has absolutely no room to bash Arizona's bill while visiting our country. That was my point. The fact that he did, and the fact that our President let him without setting him straight is a good illustration of just how warped this whole issue has become.

________________

As an update for those of you that know my wife thought she lost her greencard: Actually we realized last night that the card she lost was her Employment Authorization Card. It looks like we never actually received her greencard in the mail. There is no phone number you can call because the kids on the other end just read to you when you call the USCIS. So, we had to make her an appointment for tomorrow at 8AM 45 miles away to the nearest USCIS center to see what she is suppose to do.

The real kicker, googling around for similar problems, she will likely be told she has to refile for one, which will cost $400 and take 2-6 months to receive (and she can't legally work) - even though it was THEIR mistake, we never recieved the card, they don't give a shit.

Legal immigration reform? You bet your ass we need it. But this is why if someone talks to me in person about the government snapping their fingers for all current illegals and making them citizens or legal without consequences, I will punch them in the face. Repeatedly.

This whole multi-year immigration process I've personally been through has taught me one thing: Don't do it. Do it illegally. Our government doesn't care if you do and you'll save years and thousands of dollars.
 
So what do we do, deport them all and let them apply for citizenship? Bring down the ban hammer and ban them from ever being legal citizens? Thats such a non solution it isn't even funny. Might as well just build the wall.

You all really seem to take it personally that these folks are here illegally, like it's personally wounded you. Do you beat your chests about people breaking any other laws? Being an illegal alien isn't even the worst crime a person could commit, yet it seems to be the one that most people are upset about.

I give you a solution to the "criminal" alien problem, then you spit back that they should be punished somehow. Punished for what, trying to seek a better life? If the roles were reversed you all would do the same thing and you know it. If it meant a better life for your family you'd be crazy not to.

Furthermore, the term "criminal" is relative. The people who founded this country were considered traitors to the crown and most likely would have been executed were they ever caught. So do you consider them criminals or patriots fighting for their country?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']So what do we do, deport them all and let them apply for citizenship? Bring down the ban hammer and ban them from ever being legal citizens? Thats such a non solution it isn't even funny. Might as well just build the wall.[/quote]

No. I advocate a path to legal immigration for them.
1) HEAVILY fine any employer hiring illegal aliens.
2) Every illegal alien has two choices: Start their greencard paperwork, or leave.

That's fair. Don't kick them out of the country, unless they have a rap sheet.

You all really seem to take it personally that these folks are here illegally, like it's personally wounded you. Do you beat your chests about people breaking any other laws? Being an illegal alien isn't even the worst crime a person could commit, yet it seems to be the one that most people are upset about.
Click to expand...
When it comes to this subject our government rewards breaking the law and punishes following the law. It's as clear cut as that. There is no grey area. Yeah that pisses me off, and it should piss you off too.

I give you a solution to the "criminal" alien problem, then you spit back that they should be punished somehow. Punished for what, trying to seek a better life? If the roles were reversed you all would do the same thing and you know it. If it meant a better life for your family you'd be crazy not to.
Click to expand...
I didn't say punish, I said consequence. The consequence should be that they should not be able to return to work until they get their green card, and they have to go to the back of the line and do the same process I have been doing. That's more than fair. They still get to stay here while thousands outside the country trying to get here legally can't.

Your damn straight if I were living in poverty and I knew of a rich country that coddles people that break their laws I'd go there. What does that prove? Does that somehow prove we should not have those laws?

Furthermore, the term "criminal" is relative. The people who founded this country were considered traitors to the crown and most likely would have been executed were they ever caught. So do you consider them criminals or patriots fighting for their country?
Click to expand...
Beautiful strawman there.You even put a tuxedo on him.

Bringing up the past to justify breaking laws now isn't a valid argument. While we are at it why don't we pass a national guilt law about the American Indian genocide and put neon signs along the border saying "sorry for the genocide of your ancestors, brown people come back!" Would you prefer that?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']No. I advocate a path to legal immigration for them.
1) HEAVILY fine any employer hiring illegal aliens.
2) Every illegal alien has two choices: Start their greencard paperwork, or leave.

That's fair. Don't kick them out of the country, unless they have a rap sheet.


[/QUOTE]

I think this is actually reasonable.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I think this is actually reasonable.[/QUOTE]

It is, however the first part as speed pointed out would never ever fucking happen.
 
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