Army recruiting preteens

alonzomourning23

CAGiversary!
Feedback
26 (100%)
WASHINGTON -- What began as an attempt to educate middle-school students about the military has set off a string of complaints from parents and teachers that new learning materials designed by a New Hampshire publisher for 9- to 14-year-olds amount to little more than an early recruiting pitch for the Army.

The latest issue of Cobblestone magazine, distributed nationwide to schools and libraries, is dedicated to the Army, a first for the popular periodical.

Titled ``Duty, Honor, Country," the issue depicts a soldier in Iraq manning a machine gun on its glossy cover and includes articles ranging from what it's like to go through boot camp -- ``You're in the Army Now" -- to a rundown of the Army's ``awesome arsenal," to a detailed description of Army career opportunities.

But most controversial has been the pair of teacher's guides prepared in conjunction with the magazine, which is touted as meeting national middle school performance standards for English and language arts. The classroom guides suggest that teachers invite a soldier, Army recruiter, or veteran to speak to their class and poll students on whether ``they think they might someday want to join the Army."

``Some of the teachers were like `Holy cow, look at this,' " said Francis Lunney , a sixth-grade English teacher in Hudson who said he found a copy in his school mailbox in May and quickly lodged a complaint in a telephone call to Carus Publishing in Peterborough, N.H. ``It looked exactly like the [official recruiting] material you get in high school. It didn't seem to be that different the way it was packaged."

The roughly dozen complaints come at a time when the military is struggling to meet recruiting goals and has undertaken more aggressive efforts to draw the interest of youngsters. For example, the Army has funded the development of video games to bring its message to teenagers across the country. But it has been criticized by some groups for its allegedly manipulative sales tactics, and has even faced attempts -- unsuccessful so far -- to bar recruiters from some high schools.

Cobblestone's editors insist that the idea for the special issue was theirs alone, though they requested and received permission to use Army photos. They also received more extensive help from the chief historian of the Army Historical Foundation, Matthew Seelinger . The foundation, based in Arlington, Va., is a private, nonprofit organization and is independent of the military.

``We are not part of the government; we are not part of the Army," said Seelinger. ``They contacted us."

Still, he said it was the first time the foundation had been asked to prepare learning materials for children. ``I have never written for a children's magazine before," Seelinger said, adding that Cobblestone paid him about $500 for his contributions.

Cobblestone is one of a family of award-winning children's magazines published by Carus. It was started by two teachers in 1979 to promote reading and history. It grew into six themed magazines that cover American history, geography, world cultures, world history, science and space, general studies, and reading.

The magazine ``strives to educate and entertain through a creative mix of articles, primary source documents, photographs, and illustrations, as well as fun activities, puzzles, and cartoons," according to its website. ``Cobblestone Publishing works with consulting editors, writers, historians, professors, museum curators, teachers, and others who are noted authorities in their fields of study."

Cobblestone has a national paid circulation of 30,000, but managing editor Lou Waryncia said its reach is far greater because one issue could be used by dozens of students -- either in the classroom or in school libraries.

While previous issues of Cobblestone have dealt with the Civil War and other military conflicts, the recent issue is somewhat of a departure, said Waryncia, noting it is the first time that the Army was a focus by itself.

``We planned to do this well over two years ago," Waryncia said. ``It just happened to come out at a time when the country's feelings are in a certain place" about the war in Iraq.

To some teachers and parents, the content appeared to be inappropriate for students who have yet to enter high school, where the military traditionally begins recruiting.

The issue includes an interview with Army Colonel Michael J. Davis , commander of the 52d Explosive Ordnance Disposal Group. He is asked questions such as ``What made you decide to join the Army?"

The magazine discusses careers offered by the Army, including arts, media, computers, construction, engineering, intelligence, medical, aviation, legal, and transportation.

One of the teaching guides -- written by Mary B. Lawson , a teacher in Saint Cloud, Fla. -- goes much further, suggesting that a writing exercise be undertaken in which students `` pretend they are going to join the Army. Have them decide which career they feel they would qualify for and write a paper to persuade a recruiter why that should be the career."

Some complaints have centered on the fact that little attention is paid to the combat role of the Army -- its risks and sacrifices.

Waryncia said the magazine did not intend to recruit for the Army, but will reconsider future issues in light of the criticisms, which he said were greater than for any previous issue.

He said the magazine has not yet decided its lineup for 2008, but is considering issues dedicated to the Marines Corps, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard. He acknowledged that he would pay much closer attention to both the content and the teaching guides in light of the complaints.

Virginia Schumacher , a retired teacher and visitor services manager at the History Center in Ithaca, N.Y., who wrote another teaching guide, defended the issue.

``Joining the military is a career option for any child," she said. ``That doesn't suggest they should or should not. Recruiters go into the high school all the time. Part of the curriculum in New York state is career options and how to make wise choices. In that magazine, I felt they gave a wonderful portrayal of jobs that are not what everyone thinks of when they think of the Army. It was not meant to meant to offend anyone."



http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washin..._magazine/
 
Better yet, they should ban all forms of career opportunity literature from schools and never allow anyone to teach about getting a job in the real world. God knows I wouldn't want my child to see a policeman or fireman speak in the classroom and want to grow up to save people's lives. What are these crazy people doing to our kids !!!! ?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Better yet, they should ban all forms of career opportunity literature from schools and never allow anyone to teach about getting a job in the real world. God knows I wouldn't want my child to see a policeman or fireman speak in the classroom and want to grow up to save people's lives. What are these crazy people doing to our kids !!!! ?[/QUOTE]

There's a difference between having a soldier, fireman, or policeman speak to a class of children and making an effort to secure a future requirement. Most schools ban the use of ANY tobacco on school grounds with the belief that children are so impressionable that it would cause them to want to smoke. Perhpas if children should be allowed to make their own decisions about the future adult lives then we should lift those bans? Not only that but children will eventually have sex anyway so what's the point of barring them from viewing pornography?
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']There's a difference between having a soldier, fireman, or policeman speak to a class of children and making an effort to secure a future requirement. Most schools ban the use of ANY tobacco on school grounds with the belief that children are so impressionable that it would cause them to want to smoke. Perhpas if children should be allowed to make their own decisions about the future adult lives then we should lift those bans? Not only that but children will eventually have sex anyway so what's the point of barring them from viewing pornography?[/QUOTE]

Don't try to argue that with Mr. Laissez-Faire Pants. He demands so little intervention that we should not only legalize drugs, but permit cigarettes, alcohol and heroin to be put into our eighth grade curricula in the same way that coca-cola and pizza hut currently do. Anything less would be an unnecessary impediment on the growth of our free market!

bmulligan for drugs for the children! Don't interfere with unbridled capitalism!
 
I think it's interesting that schools teach ad nauseum about wars (all I remember about American history was war, war, coruption, depression, then more war) but hardly any attention is devoted to teaching about peace.

Taking a history course is naturally going to entail learning about war, as it should. However I wouldn't mind seeing one course in the 4 years of HS that centered on ways that people can avoid wars, and negotiate peace. Seems to me that in the nuclear age it would make sense to start teaching the kids that guns can't solve everything.
 
[quote name='AFStealth']Who cares. Not like you can join the military til you're 17. Can't sign anything either.[/QUOTE]

That's not the point at all. The point is that they're trying to "plant the seed" in these young children so that they'll want to join when they do turn 17. Its pretty obvious when they have magazine headlines that advertise how "awesome" the guns that they use are. I don't think they include any information about how awesome it is to be hit by a roadside bomb or to be in a helicopter that's shot down with an RPG.

They're not giving kids the full story, if all they tell the kids the entire time they're growing up is that the Army is awesome and its fun then the kids will want to do it as soon as possible. Children are highly impressionable and will cling to things. Its the reason why gangs recruit children as young as possible. If they form an attachment to the gang, then they'll be a lot less likely to walk away from it in the future. The same thing is going on here.
 
Kids grow out of stupid shit. How many times did you want to be a firefighter, or police man when you grew up? Sure, your point would be valid if the Army was the ONLY influence they got in life, but it's not.
 
I think it basically gets them to think about it and consider it an option. Many people immediately dismiss it and it's the last thing they'd ever do, and many parents don't want any part in encouraging it. It basically will increase the chance that the person will actually consider it later on if they think it's cool now. Many kids may have had 0, or close to it, contact with the military otherwise. I know the only thing at my school was a little pamphlet buried way in the back of pamphlets for various college. No signs, no military representative ever came to my school or anything, though I'm not sure if that's possible in a public school.

But I find it odd, people flip when schools mention a family with 2 dads or moms, saying the parents should have the right to decide whether they're kid is told about such things, yet those families are the least likely to complain about doing the same with the military.
 
I recall branches of the armed forces coming to various classrooms I've been in (9th - 12th). I didn't want to turn in my personal information, but one of my teachers made me, on year -- the other years, I filled them out with phony bullshit.

Sadly, they still call my house to this day. I told them never to call back, three or four years ago, and a friend who was in the recruitment office said he saw my name, in the system, with "REQUESTED NEVER TO CALL AGAIN" next to it. ... but they started a few months ago, again.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']That's not the point at all. The point is that they're trying to "plant the seed" in these young children so that they'll want to join when they do turn 17. Its pretty obvious when they have magazine headlines that advertise how "awesome" the guns that they use are. I don't think they include any information about how awesome it is to be hit by a roadside bomb or to be in a helicopter that's shot down with an RPG.

They're not giving kids the full story, if all they tell the kids the entire time they're growing up is that the Army is awesome and its fun then the kids will want to do it as soon as possible. Children are highly impressionable and will cling to things. Its the reason why gangs recruit children as young as possible. If they form an attachment to the gang, then they'll be a lot less likely to walk away from it in the future. The same thing is going on here.[/QUOTE]

Then I guess they shouldn't "plant seeds" like becoming an environmentalist, researcher, professor, archaeologist, or any other seeds that might sprout fruit into young minds. I'm sure when they cover skydiving they don't mention what a drag it is to have your chute jam and splatter your brains against the hard asphalt. Or that being an airline pilot could be less than stellar when someone tries to hijack you to lebannon.

Your only real problem is that they are promoting the army instead of the feel good, peacenik careers you're comfortable with. Your deep rooted hatred for the millitary can't allow you to see it as a legitimate career opportunity. You also probably think that only poor minorities sign up for a tour of exploitation as a last resort. Then again you probably think that any job is simply an excercise in exploiting the worker by the capitalist dogs that putrify what could be a utopian society. You should get along just fine with the local Party representative (aka mykevermin).
You're head is almost as spacious as the do-do brained, dope smoking hippie who said this:
I wouldn't mind seeing one course in the 4 years of HS that centered on ways that people can avoid wars, and negotiate peace. Seems to me that in the nuclear age it would make sense to start teaching the kids that guns can't solve everything.

All we need is love folks. Those soviets, communists, and muslims that hate us would just lay down their arms if we would negociate with them and capitulate to their demands. Demands like ending our existence to please allah. Salam aleikum my brothers, we've finally found the answer to world peace !
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Then I guess they shouldn't "plant seeds" like becoming an environmentalist, researcher, professor, archaeologist, or any other seeds that might sprout fruit into young minds. I'm sure when they cover skydiving they don't mention what a drag it is to have your chute jam and splatter your brains against the hard asphalt. Or that being an airline pilot could be less than stellar when someone tries to hijack you to lebannon.

Your only real problem is that they are promoting the army instead of the feel good, peacenik careers you're comfortable with. Your deep rooted hatred for the millitary can't allow you to see it as a legitimate career opportunity. You also probably think that only poor minorities sign up for a tour of exploitation as a last resort. Then again you probably think that any job is simply an excercise in exploiting the worker by the capitalist dogs that putrify what could be a utopian society. You should get along just fine with the local Party representative (aka mykevermin).
You're head is almost as spacious as the do-do brained, dope smoking hippie who said this:


All we need is love folks. Those soviets, communists, and muslims that hate us would just lay down their arms if we would negociate with them and capitulate to their demands. Demands like ending our existence to please allah. Salam aleikum my brothers, we've finally found the answer to world peace ![/QUOTE]

Wow, its amazing how much information you assumed from just one simple post I made about 1 issue. I mean its like you've known me my entire life. See, that's the problem with you conservatives, its a "with me or against me" mentality. Shit, Bush himself said as much when, in reality, the world is nothing but shades of gray. Since I oppose this I'm automatically a peace loving, communist hippie right? You listen to talk radio and buy all their shit too don't you? Here's an idea, form your own opinions instead of simply following what your party tells you to.

If you want to go through the entire VS. forum and do a little searching you'll actually see that there's been times where I agreed with your stance on an issue. Why you felt it necessary to turn this discussion into something personal is beyond me. I guess its once again the republican mindset that if you can't articulate an argument you might as well just attack the person's character (Bill Clinton anyone?).

How you can assume that I have a "deep rooted hatred for the military" because I'm opposed to recruiting 9 year old children is beyond me. You know, why do we even protect children from working in the first place? They've got everything an adult has, arms, legs, brain, etc. they're just smaller so why do we protect them?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
You're head is almost as spacious as the do-do brained, dope smoking hippie who said this:


All we need is love folks. Those soviets, communists, and muslims that hate us would just lay down their arms if we would negociate with them and capitulate to their demands. Demands like ending our existence to please allah. Salam aleikum my brothers, we've finally found the answer to world peace ![/QUOTE]

How does that make him a hippie or even necessarily a pacifist. All he said is that they should teach about how to avoid wars, not to avoid them at any cost. I think that should sound reasonable to just about any one. That being said I probably do qualify as a "hippie" to you even if I don't smoke pot or attend rallies. I think that 99% of wars are completly unnecessary and fought based on misguided senses of honor, faith or downright paranoia at best. At worst as a means for profit or political gain. The other 1% (think WWII) are mostly defensive action that was set off by mistakes made in preivous conflicts (The debt and poverty imposed on Germany after WWI had a huge impact on Hitlers rise to power). Public school does seem to focus on the glory of war and never seems to ask if it is all really necessary. That being said I think its ok to show military careers in schools as long as kids are not forced to sign up for anything (as mentioned above) and as long as anti-war groups are given a similar chance to address kids.
 
[quote name='Hippie']...That being said I think its ok to show military careers in schools as long as kids are not forced to sign up for anything (as mentioned above) and as long as anti-war groups are given a similar chance to address kids.[/QUOTE]

Which anti-war groups? The most extreme leftist ones or just all of them to ensure a fair and balanced presentation to schoolkids? If a democrat comes to your kid's elementary school, should a capitalist be invited for balance too? Don't bogart that joint, MF, pass it over to me...
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']If you want to go through the entire VS. forum and do a little searching you'll actually see that there's been times where I agreed with your stance on an issue. Why you felt it necessary to turn this discussion into something personal is beyond me. I guess its once again the republican mindset that if you can't articulate an argument you might as well just attack the person's character (Bill Clinton anyone?).

How you can assume that I have a "deep rooted hatred for the military" because I'm opposed to recruiting 9 year old children is beyond me. You know, why do we even protect children from working in the first place? They've got everything an adult has, arms, legs, brain, etc. they're just smaller so why do we protect them?[/QUOTE]

They weren't "recruiting", they were exploring the millitary as a career choice as a learning experience. You let the article lead you to it's pre-determined conclusion which was to admonish the millitary and it's very existence never allowing a child to be swayed by the false allure of being proud to be a soldier.

And, FWIW, I commend you for agreeing with me on other issues, it shows you actually have a partially functioning rational cerebrum between your ears. Unfortunately, this time you're dead wrong and too blindly hateful of the millitary to reach any other conclusion other than exposure of millitary people to elementary kids is worse than devil worship.

RVB, it's nothing personal, I'm just geared up from being the Ann Coulter balance to myke's irrational leftist schmegmal oozings and am in need of good quality gin shaken through ice.
 
Anti-war groups? Are you even serious? Come on now. A military career is a respectable profession, just as any Policeman, Firefighter, Doctor, and whatnot. Like I said, they aren't 'recruiting' kids, because it's impossible at that age. Anti-war groups would just push unneeded and unwanted politics.

The problem here is that someone thought it was news to have Military Personnel visit kids at school, and hand out pamphlets. So they spin it as recruiting.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Which anti-war groups? The most extreme leftist ones or just all of them to ensure a fair and balanced presentation to schoolkids? If a democrat comes to your kid's elementary school, should a capitalist be invited for balance too? Don't bogart that joint, MF, pass it over to me...[/QUOTE]

In your other posts you sound like you're all about freedom and lack of government interference in our lives/the economy. It seems however more like the freedom all the other conservative/pro-war people are selling. The freedom to do what they want you to do. How can you say that you support allowing recruiters in the schools but deny having any opposing voice to the war there. And I'm not saying that after a recruiter appears that immediatly we have to have some anti-war group show up to balance it, just that they shoud have the opportunity to reach impressionable minds as well.
 
[quote name='AFStealth']Anti-war groups? Are you even serious? Come on now. A military career is a respectable profession, just as any Policeman, Firefighter, Doctor, and whatnot. Like I said, they aren't 'recruiting' kids, because it's impossible at that age. Anti-war groups would just push unneeded and unwanted politics.

The problem here is that someone thought it was news to have Military Personnel visit kids at school, and hand out pamphlets. So they spin it as recruiting.[/QUOTE]

Actually you make a good point I didn't think of. The military IS a career and anti-war groups ARE politics. Just like a corrections officer speaking on career day shouldn't be balanced by an anti death penalty group. What should be done however is to teach the views of those who object to wars as well as the official pro-war rhetoric they currently teach and let the kids decide for themselves. As it is I didn't learn much negative about wars (other than the obvious) until college when history professors tended to teach both sides of the issues.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']All we need is love folks. Those soviets, communists, and muslims that hate us would just lay down their arms if we would negociate with them and capitulate to their demands. Demands like ending our existence to please allah. Salam aleikum my brothers, we've finally found the answer to world peace ![/quote]

Why does a modest proposal to teach about world policies that promote peace result in such vitriol?

If a culture must resort to pre-emptive violence to solve a conflict, then in a sense that culture has already lost. Every time we invade a country because their ideals are different then ours, it's worse then giving ammunition to our enemies.

Only a judicious use of military power sends a message of strength to the world.
 
[quote name='miker8']Actually you make a good point I didn't think of. The military IS a career and anti-war groups ARE politics. Just like a corrections officer speaking on career day shouldn't be balanced by an anti death penalty group. What should be done however is to teach the views of those who object to wars as well as the official pro-war rhetoric they currently teach and let the kids decide for themselves. As it is I didn't learn much negative about wars (other than the obvious) until college when history professors tended to teach both sides of the issues.[/quote]

What about having counter recruiters? I've read about some schools bringing in ex marines, army men etc. to challenge the things the recruiter is saying and to tell them it's not all fun and glory. Ya know, like them extending your enlistment period, being told things by the recruiter and having something else happen when you sign up, tell them about the long term dangers of combat (high rates of ptsd and stuff like that) and so on. It's not a political viewpoint, it's a counter to the overly rosy picture provided by the recruiter.

There's no turning back with the military. You can't just try it out and then quite. You go in based on what you've read, heard etc. If you base your opinion on what the recruiter says, which many do, then you don't even go into it aware of what you just signed yourself up for. It's not like other fields where you can take a few classes first, or intern a bit, it's all or nothing.
 
Recruiters recruit for "referral money". There is no other reason; certainly not "passion".

How else would we have as many people as we do enlisting?
 
[quote name='AFStealth']Kids grow out of stupid shit.[/QUOTE]

I look at what you and Mull post and I cannot say that is true at all.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']What about having counter recruiters? [/QUOTE]

Best idea I've heard in this thread. Give the children all the information they need before making life-changing decisions later on.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I look at what you and Mull post and I cannot say that is true at all.[/QUOTE]

And your additions to the discussion are what exactly? Trying to get off a clever one-liner? :roll:

Actually you make a good point I didn't think of. The military IS a career and anti-war groups ARE politics. Just like a corrections officer speaking on career day shouldn't be balanced by an anti death penalty group. What should be done however is to teach the views of those who object to wars as well as the official pro-war rhetoric they currently teach and let the kids decide for themselves. As it is I didn't learn much negative about wars (other than the obvious) until college when history professors tended to teach both sides of the issues.

Sure why not. All throughout public school we were never taught anything on war. It was always a glossed over category in my schools. It was only until high school that we briefly touched upon other wars apart from the Revolutionary war. We weren't taught any sides, only that the 'Allies Won'.

Not many people know the many aspects of war, and it is the schools that are at fault.
 
One day I was wearing my "Army" shirt on a run at a local park, and this woman points at me and yells "War Monger!"

I have nothing to add to that story, this thread just reminded me of it(for some reason). I do have to say that it hurts that some people instantly hate me because I wanted to join up.
...anyway,sorry to butt-in.
 
Reality's Fringe;2015841 said:
One day I was wearing my "Army" shirt on a run at a local park, and this woman points at me and yells "War Monger!"

I have nothing to add to that story, this thread just reminded me of it(for some reason). I do have to say that it hurts that some people instantly hate me because I wanted to join up.
...anyway,sorry to butt-in.

...it hurts? You go into the army, and people who think you represent the "great Satan" are doing their damnest to kill you, but some old lady yelling "war monger" hurts you? This makes no sense.
 
[quote name='camoor']...it hurts? You go into the army, and people who think you represent the "great Satan" are doing their damnest to kill you, but some old lady yelling "war monger" hurts you? This makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

I'm sensitive...so very sensitive.
 
[quote name='camoor']...it hurts? You go into the army, and people who think you represent the "great Satan" are doing their damnest to kill you, but some old lady yelling "war monger" hurts you? This makes no sense.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does. And I'm not going to explain, as you know the explaination -- you wouldn't have posted that, otherwise.

Bold for the sake of being bold ain't bold.
 
[quote name='Brak']Yes, it does. And I'm not going to explain, as you know the explaination -- you wouldn't have posted that, otherwise.

Bold for the sake of being bold ain't bold.[/quote]

Great, send me a PM when you start making sense.
 
[quote name='camoor']Great, send me a PM when you start making sense.[/QUOTE]
Ok. What the old woman did in the park is comparable to the misdirected angst of spitting on returning Viet Nam veterans.

Again, I've yet to describe what's wrong with both situations, as they don't need to be described -- they describe themselves.
 
Observation:

the LEFT: Oh no! The military is trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil war-mongering agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them!

the RIGHT: Oh no! Homosexuals are trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil, immoral agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them!
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Observation:

the LEFT: Oh no! The military is trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil war-mongering agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them!

the RIGHT: Oh no! Homosexuals are trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil, immoral agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them![/QUOTE]
the LOGICAL: Oh no! Two unrelated issues!
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Observation:

the LEFT: Oh no! The military is trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil war-mongering agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them!

the RIGHT: Oh no! Homosexuals are trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil, immoral agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them![/quote]

The difference being we can actually prove that the military recruits people.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Observation:

the LEFT: Oh no! The military is trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil war-mongering agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them!

the RIGHT: Oh no! Homosexuals are trying to recruit preteens! They are pushing their evil, immoral agenda on unsuspecting children and trying to ruin society! We must stop them![/quote]

LoL - what's the homo pitch? Join us and join a legacy of hate and shame! Plus lose the ability to get married and adopt children. I must have missed those glossy pamphlets in HS.

You freaking idiot.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']The difference being we can actually prove that the military recruits people.[/QUOTE]

Yes, becuase they actually have recruiting offices, not by the article in the OP, though, which was clearly an exercise in media disinformation.

They offered no proof of recruitment except for a quote from a disaffected parent who made the claim. Suddenly everyone who reads the article concludes the army is recruiting pre-teens as if it were fact. There's no proof there, alonzo.
 
There's nothing wrong with the military. It's a honorable choice for a career, and I don't see any reason why our own military should be "censored" because you don't like them. It doesn't matter if you like them or not they still protect us all, liberals and conservatives alike. It pisses me off all the things they do to defend us willingly and some of the liberals still have a hissy fit when they get a phone call or they see a recruiter. I think a phone call once every couple of months or teaching children about the benefits of serving their country are small prices to pay for free, unlimited, around the clock protection of our country and our freedoms.
 
[quote name='Ace-Of-War']There's nothing wrong with the military. It's a honorable choice for a career, and I don't see any reason why our own military should be "censored" because you don't like them. It doesn't matter if you like them or not they still protect us all, liberals and conservatives alike. It pisses me off all the things they do to defend us willingly and some of the liberals still have a hissy fit when they get a phone call or they see a recruiter. I think a phone call once every couple of months or teaching children about the benefits of serving their country are small prices to pay for free, unlimited, around the clock protection of our country and our freedoms.[/quote]

Ok, then let it exist as any other job. Let people quite if they find they don't like it. If that's not an option, then you should protect children from a one sided view of a career that there's no changing your mind on.

Though it seems like terrorism has been growing lately. It seems like we are harming ourselves with our military action.
 
What the hell are you talking about? You can quit after 4 years if you don't like it. Unlike most other employers, the military spends a SHITLOAD of money training you.

If you think any company that would spend $200,000 training you, would let you quit the next day, then you're just completely out of it. Just because a job has a contract, doesn't make it any less of a job.
 
I had to pause for a second and realize you're serious. You actually think having to wait 4 years, possibly going through combat, witnessing death and being shot, is comparable to doing an internship, or taking a course, and being able to quite whenever you want, be it day one or year 20? You think that's the same?

When you give a kid a one sides view of what's coming that's a problem. When you do that in an area where there's a point of no return, it's dangerous.
 
Nobody said anything about an internship. You're suggesting that the military be like any other job, where a person can quit whenever shit gets tough, that would quite effectively ruin our military, that doesn't mean however, that's in any less of a job than any other place out there.

And again, kids can't sign any contracts anyway, and by the time they grow up old enough to actually sign away, they'll have OTHER influences in their lives as well.
 
[quote name='AFStealth']Nobody said anything about an internship. You're suggesting that the military be like any other job, where a person can quit whenever shit gets tough, that would quite effectively ruin our military, that doesn't mean however, that's in any less of a job than any other place out there.[/quote]

I was saying that if you are going to give the military access to students well beyond what anyone else gets, and give them very one sided ideas about the military (whatever the recruiter wants), without giving parents or kids a say in whether they want to be around that, then you should treat it like other jobs where they can leave.

And again, kids can't sign any contracts anyway, and by the time they grow up old enough to actually sign away, they'll have OTHER influences in their lives as well.

So, the other influences are always going to help give them an accurate view of the military? People often join and say it was nothing like they expected, and some of the things the recruiters told them never happened. I know one guy who even had a recruiter give him examples of a bunch of different people who got free education without ever seeing combat. He joined up figuring that he could get the benefits without fighting. He was sent off in about 2 months.

All these recruitment attempts are designed to do everything possible to put military life in a good light. Their goal is to get soldiers. Kids just out of high school aren't the most informed bunch, and neither are college kids half the time.

The way the system is set up now, every attempt is made to deny potential recruits an accurate portrayal of military life. The early and easy access by recruiters and the glorification of weaponry (games designed by the military for example) help to distort the ugly side of military life.
 
Jeez alonzo, I'd hate to be the bank foreclosing on your house because you didn't feel like paying your mortgage for a few months. I mean, do you realize that when you sign a contract that means you are legally bound in upholding whatever agreement you sign on to? You can't just quit for a couple of months just because you need the money for a swimming pool. Likewise in the military, you can't just quit because there is a war going on.

[quote name='alonzo']All these recruitment attempts are designed to do everything possible to put military life in a good light.[/quote]
Umm.. yeah. That's what all recruiters do. You're the one saying they should act like a normal business, what do you think recruiters for colleges and clubs and careers do? Tell you why you shouldn't join up? If you think it's an exception to exaggerate when you're marketing something, I strongly advise you to watch any commercial ever created.

What grinds my gears is that you're okay with the military protecting your home, your family, your community, and your country for free all day every day, but damn them to hell if they ever try to recruit! I don't see how much more fair you can get than a free country where you don't have to listen to military recruiters, and you can even protest the military freely.

Admit it, you just want to have your cake and eat it too.
 
Ace, you don't want to take steps to ensure that children have an accurate picture of military life before signing up. I want them to understand what they're getting themselves into. No college forces you to attend, other careers want you to get experience before graduating, this is not true of the military. Explain to me what the problem is with kids hearing both sides and knowing what they're getting into, what's wrong with that? You have a problem with that it seems.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']No college forces you to attend, other careers want you to get experience before graduating, this is not true of the military.[/quote]

Yes, it is.

No military forces you to attend. It's an all-volunteer force. VOLUNTEER. What do you not understand about that?
 
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say anything about quitting. How can I make it any simpler?

You.
Do.
Not.
Have.
To.
Sign.
Up.

It.
Is.
A.
Free.
Choice.

If you sign a contract for X number of years, then you are responsible to fulfill the obligation that you WILLINGLY AGREED TO DO. If you sign a contract to pay your electric bill on X day of the month, then you are responsible to fulfill the obligation that you WILLINGLY AGREED TO DO. I know freedom and responsibility are foreign concepts for communists/socialists/progressives/whatever you catagorize yourself as, but is it really that difficult to understand?
 
Am I the only one who read the article?

Cobblestone's editors insist that the idea for the special issue was theirs alone, though they requested and received permission to use Army photos.

...

Cobblestone is one of a family of award-winning children's magazines published by Carus. It was started by two teachers in 1979 to promote reading and history. It grew into six themed magazines that cover American history, geography, world cultures, world history, science and space, general studies, and reading.

This =/= the Army recruiting middle-school students, which the title of this thread blatantly states. Read it. There is nothing stated in which the Army set out to use this magazine to recruit newbies. That might have been the intent of the editor, but unless you can show me a source to where the Army paid anything to the publisher for this issue, then all this thread shows is an absurd attempt to push political/cultural beliefs.

What I'd also like to know is this: How many people on this board have actually served? Who here among us can raise our hands and not count our daddies or friends?
 
bread's done
Back
Top