Bailout passes Senate, McCain/Obama/Biden/Probably Your Senators all Yay

Dead of Knight

Dead of Knight

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http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/economy/senate_rescuebill2/index.htm?cnn=yes

Heroes who voted no (yes I know some of them are nutjobs on nearly everything else):
Nays: Allard, Barrasso, Brownback, Bunning, Cantwell, Cochran, Crapo, DeMint, Dole, Dorgan, Enzi, Feingold, Inhofe, Johnson, Landrieu, Nelson (FL), Roberts, Sanders, Sessions, Shelby, Stabenow, Tester, Vitter, Wicker, Wyden
Ted Kennedy was obviously not present.

Be sure to show the people who voted Yay your disgust by not voting for them in the next election!

Full list of fail:
Akaka (D-HI), Y
Alexander (R-TN), Y
Allard (R-CO), N
Barrasso (R-WY), N
Baucus (D-MT), Y
Bayh (D-IN), Y
Bennett (R-UT), Y
Biden (D-DE), Y
Bingaman (D-NM), Y
Bond (R-MO), Y
Boxer (D-CA), Y
Brown (D-OH), Y
Brownback (R-KS), N
Bunning (R-KY), N
Burr (R-NC), Y
Byrd (D-WV), Y
Cantwell (D-WA), N
Cardin (D-MD), Y
Carper (D-DE), Y
Casey (D-PA), Y
Chambliss (R-GA), Y
Clinton (D-NY), Y
Coburn (R-OK), Y
Cochran (R-MS), N
Coleman (R-MN), Y
Collins (R-ME), Y
Conrad (D-ND), Y
Corker (R-TN), Y
Cornyn (R-TX), Y
Craig (R-ID), Y
Crapo (R-ID), N
DeMint (R-SC), N
Dodd (D-CT), Y
Dole (R-NC), N
Domenici (R-NM), Y
Dorgan (D-ND), N
Durbin (D-IL), Y
Ensign (R-NV), Y
Enzi (R-WY), N
Feingold (D-WI), N
Feinstein (D-CA), Y
Graham (R-SC), Y
Grassley (R-IA), Y
Gregg (R-NH), Y
Hagel (R-NE), Y
Harkin (D-IA), Y
Hatch (R-UT), Y
Hutchison (R-TX), Y
Inhofe (R-OK), N
Inouye (D-HI), Y
Isakson (R-GA), Y
Johnson (D-SD), N
Kennedy (D-MA),
Kerry (D-MA), Y
Klobuchar (D-MN), Y
Kohl (D-WI), Y
Kyl (R-AZ), Y
Landrieu (D-LA), N
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Y
Leahy (D-VT), Y
Levin (D-MI), Y
Lieberman (ID-CT), Y
Lincoln (D-AR), Y
Lugar (R-IN), Y
Martinez (R-FL), Y
McCain (R-AZ), Y
McCaskill (D-MO), Y
McConnell (R-KY), Y
Menendez (D-NJ), Y
Mikulski (D-MD), Y
Murkowski (R-AK), Y
Murray (D-WA), Y
Nelson (D-FL), N
Nelson (D-NE), Y
Obama (D-IL), Y
Pryor (D-AR), Y
Reed (D-RI), Y
Reid (D-NV), Y
Roberts (R-KS), N
Rockefeller (D-WV), Y
Salazar (D-CO), Y
Sanders (I-VT), N
Schumer (D-NY), Y
Sessions (R-AL), N
Shelby (R-AL), N
Smith (R-OR), Y
Snowe (R-ME), Y
Specter (R-PA), Y
Stabenow (D-MI), N
Stevens (R-AK), Y
Sununu (R-NH), Y
Tester (D-MT), N
Thune (R-SD), Y
Vitter (R-LA), N
Voinovich (R-OH), Y
Warner (R-VA), Y
Webb (D-VA), Y
Whitehouse (D-RI), Y
Wicker (R-MS), Y
Wyden (D-OR), N
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']voted no:Sanders[/quote]

Somebody get this man a prostitute.

Eat a dick Leahy. This is Vermont, signing out.

edit: Just kidding, Leahy. I still love you.
 
The pendulum has swung full tilt, and the corporations own this country. If our politicians hadn't done what they wanted they would have ruined us.

Personally I think the pendulum will start to swing back again. There's only so many Enrons, Sub-Prime crises, Halliburtons, and golden parachutes before people wake up to how badly they're being fucked by the insatiable and immoral executive class.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']

Be sure to show the people who voted Yay your disgust by not voting for them in the next election!

[/QUOTE]

you heard it here first, dead of knight is not voting for obama the next election, and she doesnt want you to vote for him either! preach on sister!

[quote name='lilboo']I still don't quite how is this good OR bad?
This whole thing just confuses me :lol: :cry:[/QUOTE]

its terrible. lets say you went out and bought a nice big house. you figure you could afford it, and you can. but then you go buy a nice new car, sure things will be tight, but if you budget right, you can make the payments. then your wife gets a new car, but you figure youll manage, sure youll still making payments on that hdtv and surround sound system, and you had to buy groceries with a visa last week. but itll work out in the end. fast foward a few years, its all caught up with you, youre house is in forclosure, youre going to lose your nice new car (thats worth considerably lses now even though you still have 3 years on the loan), your new job doesnt pay as much as it used to... and instead of taking responsibility for all that you go around the neighborhood and ask everyone for $5,000 and tell them youll pay them back when you sell the house. thats what the government just did, times a million... literally.




The bailout is going to House either tomorrow or Friday, find your congressman and shoot them an email, a phone call, or something and let them know they're a douche if they vote for it and you won't be voting for them if they do (and then follow through with the threat, not voting is not an option).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd?state=CA
 
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[quote name='camoor']The pendulum has swung full tilt, and the corporations own this country.[/quote]

They've owned it since the Mickey Mouse patent fiasco. That's what happens when you have a capitalist society. Those with the money rule it. The founding fathers knew this. That was the whole point, take down the British to save on taxes.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']They've owned it since the Mickey Mouse patent fiasco. That's what happens when you have a capitalist society. Those with the money rule it. The founding fathers knew this. That was the whole point, take down the British to save on taxes.[/quote]

Yeah, you're always going to get fucked to a degree by the rich. But 50 years ago America used to have unions (which had their own issues...). 100 years ago many CEOs treated their employees like family, and strove to pay them fair wages, actually cared for their well-being.

Ever-expanding, ever-lengthening IP protections are only one of the arrows in the oligarchs quiver - mark-to-market, new bankruptcy laws favoring banks, a court system that huge coporations can use to pick and choose juries, DRM, CEO-BOD collusion, golden parachutes, I could go on...
 
Saw something this mourning on Fox News no less claiming that Paulson was overheard insuring someone that loop holes were being left in to make sure many things being put in the bill could never be enforced. Take that as you will. Without evidence you cant believe it.....but at the same time would anyone be suprised?
 
This is the first smart thing that Richard Burr has ever done.


That said, making a statement like that makes me feel dirty. I fucking hate him with a passion. Only two more years until NC can vote his ass out.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you heard it here first, dead of knight is not voting for obama the next election, and she doesnt want you to vote for him either! preach on sister!
[/QUOTE]

I'll be voting against McCain more than voting for Obama. I've already explained my position in another thread. We cannot afford to let McCain and (and more importantly, since the guy's pretty much on death row) Palin into office. My senators, Reed and Whitehouse, will NOT be getting my votes, however.

[quote name='CaseyRyback']This is the first smart thing that Richard Burr has ever done.


That said, making a statement like that makes me feel dirty. I fucking hate him with a passion. Only two more years until NC can vote his ass out.[/QUOTE]
Is he related to Aaron Burr?
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I'll be voting against McCain more than voting for Obama. I've already explained my position in another thread.

[/QUOTE]


FLIP FLOPPER!!
 
@OP, Perhaps what we really need in government is more nutjobs, and less "normal" politicians?

[quote name='RAMSTORIA']
The bailout is going to House either tomorrow or Friday, find your congressman and shoot them an email, a phone call, or something and let them know they're a douche if they vote for it and you won't be voting for them if they do (and then follow through with the threat, not voting is not an option).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd?state=CA[/QUOTE]

I rarely do this, but I think this issue might be important enough for my time.
 
I don't understand the underlying position here.
If this bill doesn't pass, credit dries up. Banks will need to shore up capital. Lending will become more difficult and more expensive. This doesn't just impact "rich people" this hits businesses of all sizes doing day-to-day activities like making payroll or replenishing inventory. It hits retirement accounts, savings accounts and pensions.
It's incredibly complicated, but it is not a get out jail free card for businesses that overleveraged themselves or a handout to the financial community.
 
[quote name='vherub']It's incredibly complicated, but it is not a get out jail free card for businesses that overleveraged themselves or a handout to the financial community.[/quote]

When have the peole who run the financial community ever been stung by a deal they had a hand in?

Oh sure, some CEO might have to sell one of his Hampton summer homes, or give up on his private jet and settle for first class flights, but the American taxpayer is the one who is left holding the bag for the financial leader's f-ups.
 
[quote name='vherub']I don't understand the underlying position here.
If this bill doesn't pass, credit dries up. Banks will need to shore up capital. Lending will become more difficult and more expensive. This doesn't just impact "rich people" this hits businesses of all sizes doing day-to-day activities like making payroll or replenishing inventory. It hits retirement accounts, savings accounts and pensions.
It's incredibly complicated, but it is not a get out jail free card for businesses that overleveraged themselves or a handout to the financial community.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but my answer to that is a painful "so what"?

This crisis is caused by the fundemental central banking system reliance we are on. It will only happen again. And again. It's designed to inflate and then constrict, that's how it works. So some of us believe that big bandaids are no longer the answer. A redesign is.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I'm sorry but my answer to that is a painful "so what"?

This crisis is caused by the fundemental central banking system reliance we are on. It will only happen again. And again. It's designed to inflate and then constrict, that's how it works. So some of us believe that big bandaids are no longer the answer. A redesign is.[/QUOTE]

It's impressive, to a degree, that you're sticking to those laurels despite being unemployed.

If nothing is done, and the economy continues to tank you'll have a hard time finding a new job since a lot of companies seem to be on hiring freezes right now. If things get better after a bailout hiring would likely increase.

Of course, it's not a given that the bailout will help, and as I've said repeatedly I've torn on the issue.
 
thrustbucket:

I don't think you understand the importance of credit. No redesign, aside from outright communism, would be able to function without credit. Credit is what has caused this problem, and a lack of credit is about to make things worse in the short term. Credit is vitally important to the function of all commerce, even if you don't think it affects your daily life.

In the longterm, those better businesses will survive, perhaps and ideally. Maybe it will be 5 or 10 years of very, very difficult economic conditions before ultimately emerging. But there is always the risk of panic, of an irrational run on the bank which will needlessly destroy capital, destroy business and destroy lives.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It's impressive, to a degree, that you're sticking to those laurels despite being unemployed.

If nothing is done, and the economy continues to tank you'll have a hard time finding a new job since a lot of companies seem to be on hiring freezes right now. If things get better after a bailout hiring would likely increase.

Of course, it's not a given that the bailout will help, and as I've said repeatedly I've torn on the issue.[/QUOTE]
Well maybe I'm just watching too many road warrior type movies, but this economy, and much of this society, and this government is ripe for a good cleansing. It becomes more and more apparent every day.

[quote name='vherub']thrustbucket:

I don't think you understand the importance of credit. No redesign, aside from outright communism, would be able to function without credit. Credit is what has caused this problem, and a lack of credit is about to make things worse in the short term. Credit is vitally important to the function of all commerce, even if you don't think it affects your daily life.

In the longterm, those better businesses will survive, perhaps and ideally. Maybe it will be 5 or 10 years of very, very difficult economic conditions before ultimately emerging. But there is always the risk of panic, of an irrational run on the bank which will needlessly destroy capital, destroy business and destroy lives.[/QUOTE]

What you need to do is swap out the word "credit" for "debt" and what you wrote will be a little more accurate.

I've had plenty of time on my hands to study this stuff, so I know full well what you are talking about. But our debt based system is ethically wrong. You can't keep generating debt based on debt, which is backed by debt, which is backed on older debt. That, in a nutshell, is what the world economy does today, because of it's reliance on central banks. If you are I operate this way, we go to jail. If large corporations operate that way, we save them?

It all needs to go away. It needs to reset. It will be painful, but it needs to happen eventually or this will just keep happening.

Edit: And it isn't true that communism is the only other answer. Several times in the past, like during the 13 colony days, they used a government created monetary system that worked quite well, called "scrips". Before that, England used a tally stick system that functioned very well for 720 years. The introduction of fractional based central banking destroyed both.The greedy and powerful families of the time created central banks, to convince everyone that what isn't broke needs to be fixed. Lincoln's greenbacks are another example.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']you do realize theres more than two candidates.[/quote]

Yeah, if you're into throwing your vote away.

I think we need the bailout now along with punishments handed out to those who deserve them and then we need a strict permanent solution to prevent it from happening again.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Yeah, if you're into throwing your vote away.
[/QUOTE]

good point, voting for someone you actually support is a much worse idea than choosing between the lesser of two evils.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Yeah, if you're into throwing your vote away.[/quote]
Voting for the same two parties that continue the same bullshit we've had for nearly a century is throwing your vote away.

I think we need the bailout now along with punishments handed out to those who deserve them and then we need a strict permanent solution to prevent it from happening again.
Click to expand...

The only viable solution: The abolition of the federal reserve and a recreation of our monetary system, is something that nobody with any power in either party has the balls to do.
 
I do agree the only way change will ever happen is if people stand up and vote third party. But I can't run this risk considering I really, really don't want McCain in office.
 
Nobody will ever have more power than the "Federal" reserve. No third party ding dong like Nader or Barr is going to be able to do anything about them. Ever.
It would take an entire country of revolt pretty much to stop them.
 
They sure put a lot of pork in this bill to win over conservatives in the house... 2 million dollars for wooden arrow manufacturers? Tax breaks for race tracks? Is McCain going to make them famous and tell us their names on this bill he voted for?

I see the opposition wasn't based on genuine conservative values... It was based on We Want Ours.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Nobody will ever have more power than the "Federal" reserve. No third party ding dong like Nader or Barr is going to be able to do anything about them. Ever.
It would take an entire country of revolt pretty much to stop them.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much true.

So the way I see it, voting for the 1.2 party system is essentially a vote for "I'm too lazy and don't care enough for real change, more of the same please".

I can understand for those that do, but I think I'm done saying that.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Andrew Jackson is rolling in his grave.[/quote]

If only he could rise from it. Then he could abolish them again, heh. At least for a little while.
 
[quote name='HowStern']If only he could rise from it. Then he could abolish them again, heh. At least for a little while.[/quote]

He'd probably make the Indians march into the sea, too.
 
Eh, collateral damage.

jk my best friend is an Indian. (jk about that too...but really I'm cool with Indians)
 
[quote name='vherub']These people, right now:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091401698.html

Executive pay is out of hand, especially when doing a terrible job, but this is a different issue. It's not about letting some rich financial dudes drown in their own mistakes. They will be taken to task, it's about making sure most Americans are not further punished.[/quote]

Smoke and mirrors.

Wall Street players are already in-fighting for a bigger slice of the taxpayer money pie.

Oh - the rich coporate types would have made us suffer ten times the amount they were inconvinienced had the bill failed, but it still stinks.

In unrelated news, I heard the toy wooden arrow business has really had an uptick. ;)
 
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