Beating Paypal claims with international buyers.

fatherofcaitlyn

fatherofcaitlyn

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Recently, I have had several "I didn't get my game" claims against me from international buyers.

Even though I fill out customs forms when I ship games, dear beloved Paypal doesn't accept that as proof of shipment.

What's a jerk to do?

1. Don't sell international. It's entirely workable, but those international buyers are willing to spend so much on things and I can't increase sales by decreasing the customer base.

2. Increase shipping fees. Sure, everybody charges $10 to ship a GBA cart to Canada, but I want to be honest. Also, it doesn't dissuade international scammers from making purchases. They're going to get a refund anyway, right? This only hurts honest customers.

3. Make an ironclad contract that supercedes Paypal policy. I was thinking something like this:

Note for international buyers:

Due to foreign post offices constantly losing packages, I am offering two
shipping options for international buyers.

First, you can continue to pay for simple Airmail Letter Post. There is no tracking information. Due to that, you automatically forfeit any Paypal dispute or claim if I can provide a customs form number that matches a package shipped the day of or a few days after your purchase was made. Additionally, any negative feedback left because your postal carrier lost the package are disallowed.

Second, you can pay more and have your package registered. Registered mail costs $7.20. It slows down delivery time a lot. However, you'll have tracking information. You can still file a Paypal dispute or claim with this option.

As before, I don't insure international packages.
 
I ship tons of stuff overseas and really i get a very small percentage saying they don't receive it. If i have to refund something, the sales gained more than makes up for it.

Do you have anything in your description telling them how long to expect it to take? I finally put something in there for overseas bidders to expect it to take at least 2 weeks, and that has helped out quite a bit.

I dont think any ironclad contract you put into your description supercedes paypal.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']
First, you can continue to pay for simple Airmail Letter Post. There is no tracking information. Due to that, you automatically forfeit any Paypal dispute or claim if I can provide a customs form number that matches a package shipped the day of or a few days after your purchase was made. Additionally, any negative feedback left because your postal carrier lost the package are disallowed.
[/QUOTE]

ahh...
You can't prevent a buyer from leaving negative feedback on ebay or filing a claim with paypal. It is impossible for you to enforce those policies (it is not within your control).

If I were you, I wouldn't ship internationally.
For me, it is not worth the hassle for a few extra bucks (if any).
GOOD LUCK
 
[quote name='schuerm26']

I dont think any ironclad contract you put into your description supercedes paypal.[/QUOTE]

I think this is right....either stop selling interntionally or charge more/require international shipments to be shipped via a trackable service...try to push combined shipping savings for international buyers, since the cost is less based on the weight and more on the tracking.
 
Paypal's policy supercedes anything you might write in your auctions. Your only option is to either stop selling to international people or charge them for registered mail.
 
I remember CAG Haggar has stated several times that PayPal automatically denies any claims made by international buyers. But that must no longer be the case, right?
 
[quote name='wubb']I remember CAG Haggar has stated several times that PayPal automatically denies any claims made by international buyers. But that must no longer be the case, right?[/quote]

Most definitely.
 
Protection Policies - World Seller Program
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help_q.gif
What is seller protection?
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PayPal is committed to protecting our sellers against fraudulent chargebacks by buyers. For World Sellers, if the seller follows the established PayPal seller protection policy guidelines, including shipping goods to a US buyer at a confirmed address, then PayPal will protect the seller.

For what situations will I receive seller protection coverage?
  • Credit card chargebacks from fraudulent card use
  • Credit card chargebacks for false claims of non-delivery
  • Buyer complaints for false claims of non-delivery
What is not covered under seller protection:
  • "Significantly Not as Described" chargeback claims
  • Transactions to non-US buyers
  • Transactions to US buyers who do not have confirmed addresses
  • Any transactions in which the seller did not follow the SPP guidelines
EDIT: Of course, this program is only available to people selling more than $5K to other countries per month for at least 3 months. Everybody else gets NOTHING! Hooray!
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If as an US seller is not protected from international buyers, why are international buyers protected from US sellers?[/quote]

Good question. I just denied multiple prospective international buyers. I hate to turn them away, but as someone mentioned above it just isn't worth the hassle to me. I thought Canada was covered though...
 
[quote name='kell']Good question. I just denied multiple prospective international buyers. I hate to turn them away, but as someone mentioned above it just isn't worth the hassle to me. I thought Canada was covered though...[/quote]

Not until we annex them for making WMD.
 
Yeah, paypal doesn't give a shit about what you put in your terms and conditions, you will still automatically lose. These are your real options.

1. Don't sell to international buyers.

2. Only accept money order from international buyers - the safest being the international postal pink money order.

3. Ship via EMS only and make them pay for it. This has the online tracking you need to give to paypal. This still only works for Canada and United Kingdom buyers. It also has built in $100 worth of insurance in case something goes wrong, but that never happens with EMS.

4. Use a third party insurer or shipping program. U-Pic offers insurance to other countries. The shipping program I use is called Encidia, and it also offers insurance at rates that beat USPS and U-Pic, and with the amount of packages I send the amount it saves on insurace pays the 16 bucks a month it costs. You still will lose the paypal dispute, but at least you can file an insurance claim.

That's about it. You can't beat international chargebacks - its just a calculated risk you have to take

Dave
 
[quote name='Brian9824']Paypal's policy supercedes anything you might write in your auctions. Your only option is to either stop selling to international people or charge them for registered mail.[/quote]

I hate it when I'm wrong.

Got off the phone with Paypal. Registered mail isn't good enough. They want me to use Global Express Mail.

Yep, they want my buyers to accept an increase in postage from $7 to $20. Damn!

EDIT: Or just block Paypal from outside the US and accept only money orders.

EDIT 2: My god! It's like Paypal was reading Slacker's post.
 
[quote name='Brian9824']lol nah, Slacker just has dealt with the idiocy that is paypal enough that he can recite their rules in his sleep.[/quote]

What blew my mind was registered mail isn't sufficient. It clearly shows something left your possession and entered somebody else's.

Even with Global Express mail, only a few countries have tracking. I shipped something to Hungary and plenty to Brazil. Even if I used GEM, I doubt Paypal would side with me.

I'm starting to sour!
 
Another nifty thing from my conversation with Paypal.

Customs can hold an item for 8 weeks!

Somewhere in Italy ...

I usa thisa gama to maka lil pizzas. Itza callduh Zone of the Enders 2.
 
Speaking of Italy, i have blocked buyers from Italy since Global Priority doesn't go there and that country for some reason seemed to have a high rate of people saying they didn't get it. Mexico is up there also.
 
Italian mail service is notoriously slow. I remember when I visited there my guide book said to mail your postcards/whatever from Vatican City if you can swing it and want there to be a chance they'll reach home before you do as it's a sovereign state and a completely seperate postal system. That was a while ago, but somehow I doubt it's changed much.
 
I won't even ship to Canada, let alone other countries. I still get top dollar for all my auctions. I also use Paypal shipping for the cheap 14 cent delivery confirmation, which saves me quite a bit of money over the course of the year, in gas to the post office and in DC fees, not to mention my valuable time I'd waste waiting in line at the post office.

Print your postage at home...if you just have a couple packages, put them in your mailbox, if you have a bunch, schedule a package pickup online. You'll never have to go to the post office again. You can even buy stamps from your postal carrier or order them online, and you can order Priority boxes and other Priority shipping supplies online for free and have those delivered in bulk as well.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Speaking of Italy, i have blocked buyers from Italy since Global Priority doesn't go there and that country for some reason seemed to have a high rate of people saying they didn't get it. Mexico is up there also.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I only ship guides via global priority envelopes and theres some italians that get frosted when they can't buy them.

And I think my last 3 packages that went to mexico have all had problems getting there

Dave
 
[quote name='Rictor']I won't even ship to Canada, let alone other countries. I still get top dollar for all my auctions. I also use Paypal shipping for the cheap 14 cent delivery confirmation, which saves me quite a bit of money over the course of the year, in gas to the post office and in DC fees, not to mention my valuable time I'd waste waiting in line at the post office.

Print your postage at home...if you just have a couple packages, put them in your mailbox, if you have a bunch, schedule a package pickup online. You'll never have to go to the post office again. You can even buy stamps from your postal carrier or order them online, and you can order Priority boxes and other Priority shipping supplies online for free and have those delivered in bulk as well.[/quote]

The local post office in eTown is a block away from a Kroger grocery store and less than 1/2 mile off of the road I take to pick up the kids from daycare.

Otherwise, I ship during my lunch hour.

I don't have a scale for Paypal shipping.

I've decided to throw in the towel for international buyers. They're blocked with Paypal. International money orders? Not a problem.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I don't have a scale for Paypal shipping.[/quote]

I bought a cheap (~$20) scale from Staples or Office Depot. It has been a great investment for me. This way I have an accurate weight, can print off the PayPal label, and use the dropoff boxes at the PO. Very easy and very convenient.

I agree with Biff, time is money. One of my reasons for selling some of my games off on Ebay is how easy it is. Once you add international selling you are adding time and headaches. To some it may be worth it, but not to me. I mainly use only BIN and even without International bidders I have done well. Not as well as I could, as I get a lot of "Will you ship to..." even though I say no International bidders, but good enough.
 
Paypal takes DC as proof but not registered? That's insane! Registered mail is the most secure and tracked service the USPS has. It is signed and scanned every time it changes hands along the way.
 
I had a buyer from France try to jack me on 500.00+ in pay pal. I shipped registered and it wasnt showing up delivered. I was dicking around with pay pal and my post office etc etc. I was fed up with all the crap so I bluffed the buyer and said that my post office got ahold of the top guy there and they said that it was delivered and the tracking proof was being faxed to my post office. As soon as they get it, Ill get it from them and use it to press fraud charges since you attempted to do a chargeback after getting the cards. The very next day the dispute was dropped.

Since that one time, I make it mandatory for all international buyers that want to use pay pal pay for registered and full insurance. If theyre gonna fuck me by pay pal Ill have the ins to fall back on.
 
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