[quote name='Wolfpup']I think you're going to have to list when this arbitrary cut off is, because you're listing a lot of pretty new, or even current gen games as examples of how gaming "used to be better".
Every game I listed was at least one gen old. If I say used to be better, I mean games that are not current gen. I don't see that arbitrary, I do see saying that it can't be from only one gen ago as being arbitrary.
Also, a lot of what you're putting just goes to my "certain genres aren't really around" comments. You're completely ignoring the new stuff that wouldn't have even been POSSIBLE on last gen systems, let alone a NES or whatever.
You tried to make it sound like I think what I do simply because I was a person who liked genres that are not really around anymore, which is completely not true. Only a few things I listed apply to that. New stuff that would not have been possible. Yes there are some things that are better experiences now, like online gaming. But not many experiences that are better when looking at all the games.
Sports games I semi-agree with you, in that I can't play and don't care about most modern ones. Except again you're putting really new ones in there too. But even ignoring that... I think sports and some other genres have gotten really insular where you have to be hard core into them in order to play them. But there ARE still simpler versions around every now and again for us to play, and I'm not going to claim the complex "realistic" sports games of today are worse in some absolute sense. Clearly a lot of people like them, even if I (and perhaps you too) can't make heads or tales of what to do in a modern Madden game.
None of those games are "really new". They are all 5-20 years old. There are simpler versions around, but they haven't been as good as the classics.
Some of those are current gen games! You've GOT to give some cut off with this... But anyway, in general I think the genre has gotten more polished/less frustrating, more fun, and also a lot of new, far better games are using FPS mechanics in other genres. I really don't think you're going to have many people claiming Doom 1 or Goldeneye or Halo are the pinnacle of the FPS.
Again none are current gen or new. I don't know why you are saying that. A cutoff would be one generation. You're missing what I am saying apparently. I am not saying these are better games in direct comparison to games out now. I am saying they were better for their time. We experienced these back in their time, and that experience was better than what new games are providing today.
FPS: Doom (not current gen, I didn't say the unreleased one in production, which would make no sense anyways)
Goldeneye (~1997)
Perfect Dark(~2000)
Halo (~2001)
Half Life 2 (~2004)
Quake series (mid to late 90s, not including spin offs)
Personal preference. I think the Japanese RPG has kind of died, or at least slowed way down, or...realistically, it's given way to a lot of Atlus, etc. games I've never really tried. But Sakaguchi's stuff's roughly as good as ever, and there really haven't BEEN that many current gen Japanese RPGs to even make the claim you're making.
And perhaps more to the point...what about Western RPGs? What about Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, System Shock 2, Bioshock, etc.? I'll take most of those over most older Japanese RPGs any day, and most aren't possible on lesser hardware.
Same thing I said above.
2D shooters you mean? I think that's again a largely dead genre. Yeah, if that's what you love, things aren't going super great, but it's not indicative of games as a whole.
See what I said above (2nd reply), only a few genres apply.
Don't know what to think. I mean what are you counting as "adventure"? I haven't liked most of the modern Zelda games, but I liked Wind Waker and didn't like Majora's Mask... There are probably tons of awesome games you could fit in that category, if the category gets defined, and we know what year the cut off is.
I'm counting games genre that is listed as adventure or is very close to it. Again, older experience was better for its time. Games like Zelda 1, 3, OoT.
(Racing falls into several of the above categories I think.)
?
Those are all recent games. I'm not sure anything directly fits into Resident Evil's boots, maybe not even RE5, but there have certainly been a number of good games with horror themes lately.
All of those games are at least 4 years old, 4-12 years old. That is not recent to me. That's your opinion. I simply disagree. I stated this in a past post.
Both of those fall into the "neglected genre" categories too. Though there have been quite a few really good fighting games of late, and New Super Mario Bros. is worthy of the name, and Super Mario Galaxy is the first really great 3D Mario game IMO. But still, neglected genres (the latter I even mentioned in my first post)
I would not say fighting games is a neglected genre. VF 5, Soul Calibur IV, SSFTTHD, Dead or Alive 4, SF IV, Tekken 6, etc... Platformers have not been neglected either. Ratchet, Daxter, Sly, Mario on DS, GC, Wii.
Scrolling fighters you mean? Same deal, though there have been some good ones here and there. The best one ever, arguably is River City Ransom though, and then probably streets of Rage.
RTS is going to be personal preference (and you say that right before Starcraft 2 hits also...)
Another rare instance of a dead genre. Even so there has been more releases lately and they are barely better even in direct comparison even if they were.
Starcraft II being one of the few today that may provide a better experience, but maybe only better for its time. It may not be able to replicate what playing SC1 was like back in the late 90s when everything was much newer and fresher. SCII is going to be more of the same and a better game, but may not be as great as playing SC1 was back then.
Also extremely recent games, and good grief, there's all kinds of open world games now, from Oblivion to GTA4 to Infamous, etc. More stuff being done now than ever. There wasn't even anything exactly like GTA3 until the last gen consoles hit, and those games had HORRIBLE on foot control, and themes not everyone likes.
5-7 years old is not extremely recent to me. Doesn't change that they were more fun for their time.
How is any of that different from 1985? 1995? 2005? I still think if anything that's been lessened, at least in terms of graphics. There's as much shovelware as always of course.
We've argued this enough. I think there is definitely more focus on technical aspects today and I've given reason for that belief in previous posts.
How can I find evidence for something that's not taking place? I mean you're the one claiming it's changed-and apparently you think it JUST changed in the last two years or something? And last I checked, almost all of Valve's games are current gen, so I'm just not getting where you think things have gotten worse.
You asked me for evidence that it has changed so I asked you for evidence that it has not. This generation things have gotten worse. Maybe that will change. What Valve game did I list? Half Life 2. I haven't listed any others. But... I had also pointed out that Gabe Newell was one of the few that doesn't care so much about technical stuff, I had said: Then there's those that try to go for both technical and creative/fun like Kojima (which is actually the best of both worlds). This is why he and those rare few like Blizzard and Valve stand out in this industry...
And you even listed Half Life 2...you don't remember all the massive hype for it's graphics and technology? There's nothing wrong with that! But it's certainly not the only thing it brought to the table, and ditto for countless other games.
It's like you didn't read the last part of my previous post. http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5899220&postcount=247
??? I don't know where that's coming from. Since the very first computers and games, people have been pushing technology HARD. There's if anything LESS excitement about better tech than ever. A last gen system is outselling the current gen systems. The console generations are lasting longer than ever. You've been able to get away with a longer time between upgrades on the PC side of things this decade than last, etc.
I would say mostly the indie scene today represents less excitement about tech. The big budget games are tech heavy. Last gen outselling current gen does not mean developers are not concentrated on tech. It may be price, because gaming is more mainstream, or even because they like old games better. Console generations are lasting longer in part because online allows for more advances to be made through software and firmware, because costs have skyrocketed, because they want more profit, etc. I'm not saying tech was not pushed just as hard back in the day, I'm saying more overall focus is on tech now. The economy today is anothe reason for wanting a longer cycle than the much better economy of the 90s.
Typically they pick middleware that makes sense for a project though. A.I. or physics, or an engine, or whatever. Usually it's in the interest of keeping costs down, and putting that development time into other aspects (like how it plays).[/QUOTE]
As I said costs have skyrocketed and using middleware is often out of saving money.
[quote name='lordopus99']My Opinion...
Everyone has different tastes. For new school, you can still find new versions of NFL Blitz. Skate 1/2 own Tony Hawk series. There is a new Punch Out for the Wii. Madden has taken Tecmo Bowl to a new level. As for old school, Cool Boarders 2 was way better than 1080 Snowboarding IMO. You forgot to list classics like Jordan vs Bird, Ice Hockey, and Baseball Stars.
Yes you can find new versions but they're not as fun as the experience you had with the older ones. Do you have as much fun with Tony Hawk today as you did with Tony Hawk 1-3? I wasn't going to list every game, and you've certainly listed some that I would say were also better for their time than what we see now.
Halo and Half-Life 2 are classic to you... wow. You are missing on new titles like Call of Duty 4, Bioshock, etc.
Played Bioshock, was fun game, but not as fun as those games when they launched. CoD4 is in my backlog. Really enjoyed CoD2 though and is one of the few games this gen that was as fun as the older games.
There have been plenty of good new titles. Some examples include Uncharted, Prince of Persia, new Tomb Raider, etc.
To me those are action games and I believe that is the genres they are also listed under.
Again, you list newer titles. Heck the genre isn't all that old. You might as well add Dead Space to your list
Dead Space is half a year old. While the titles, only one recent one is over 4 years old. And the rest are early PS1-mid PS2. That is old to me.
You can find a new Street Fighter, new Mortal Kombat, and soon to be new Tekken. So as you know, the genre is overran by sequels (in addition, Soul Caliber, KoF, etc).
Yes you can, and they're fun, but just more of the same. They're not as good as the earlier ones for their time because of that.
Although when it comes to platformers no one touches Mario, there are some good new gen titles to check out. The new Mario Galaxy was a fun play. Currently, I am enjoying LittleBigPlanet.
Same as last reply.
2D meet 3D. Normally, we call this genre "Action" and there are plenty of great next gen titles. Gears of War, Ninja Gaiden, Infamous, and list goes on. If you like old school 2D side scrollers, you can find remakes and original titles on Xbox Live, in the PS3 Store, and on WiiShop. Like WolfPup said, you missed the best beat up side scroller in River City Ransom.
I played Ransom a little, but not when it first released, and I would say its reputation is deserved. But I can't play and list every older great game. Sure again you're listing titles that are fun today, but they haven't evolved enough to provide a thrilling new experience that rivals what we got in the past. They're only better in the now if they're better at all, for the most part.
Although some of my favorite moments might have come from classics (i.e. microwaving a mouse in Maniac Mansion), I still enjoy new games. There are plenty of new titles that are just as good if not better than some older ones. The games you even listed aren't even as old as what I would have called classic for the most part.[/QUOTE]
