Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

Most big cities, Atlanta included, are mostly one way streets. Just works better for a grid like system as you don't need left turn arrows since there's no oncoming traffic. Never got the aversion people have to them, even if you don't know your way around, easy enough to circle the block (keep making lefts or rights) if you miss a turn etc.

Atlanta just has good capacity as the major one way streets are mostly 3 or 4 lanes so they can mostly handle the traffic flow.

Only thing that drives me nuts is that the major two way streets (like Peachtree), have lots of intersections that lack left turn lanes. So you end up getting stuck behind turning cars in the left lane, and buses and parked delivery trucks in the right lane since a lot of them are just two lanes in each direction.

So I tend to avoid those roads and drive a couple blocks over on the one way streets that run parallel. Only other issue is some areas the traffic lights aren't timed properly from one intersection to the next. But the city just got a grant to fix that, so hopefully that will get resolved.
 
There are also numerous areas where two lanes suddenly become one,and if you forgot about that (or don't know about it) you're stuck trying to get over. Areas where major interstate off ramps are nearby are bad too, traffic can be back up all the way down the ramp. I guess if you had a bike it would be ok, just couldn't do much shopping.
 
Yeah, the interstate ramps aren't that bad here as they hit a connector highway/road that then has intersections/ramps onto secondary streets that go to the main ones.

There are a couple that get backed up at rush hour (including one near me), but since they're kind of on the edges of the city they're pretty easy to avoid unless you need to get on the interstate. I have a 3 mile commute downtown to work--takes 15-20 minutes depending on luck with traffic lights. Grocery store is a tad over a mile away, Target is 5 miles or so away. That's about all the driving I do on a regular basis, so I rarely have to deal with the interstate traffic which is great.
 
One of the busiest sections of the interstate is right smack in the middle of Nashville. Which is convenient at first thought, since it places you near a lot of things. But when you consider everyone wants to use it, that's the clusterfuck. In that same area is a turning lane to get back on the interstate that is useda lot in the afternoons when everyone is trying to get home. Problem is that the turning lane can only hold about 5-6 cars at a time.
 
Yeah, the connector road helps that some in ATL, but it's still a clusterfuck at times.

No way I'd want to live in the suburbs and have to deal with it everyday. The way it's designed keeps that traffic out of my local road commute, but it still sucks when you do need to get on or off the interstate at rush hour. Though I still couldn't complain as it's no where near as bad as the traffic hell in the DC area that I dealt with for 7 years. Rush hour here is much shorter and not as severe as up there.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Maybe this is something I always imagined to be true, but don't they take pictures of this stuff at the scene? I know when it comes to car or house insurance, they recommend you taking pictures of the damaged property. Wouldn't someone have taken a picture of his injuries especially because of the outcome of their altercation?

Bad video is fine and dandy and so is a report from Zimmerman's family physician, but to see pictures from immediately afterwards I think would be just as good if not better.[/QUOTE]

we will never know if the pictures ever came out if the media dont want you to know right now but when the thing starts and all of the stuff has to come out we will see if there was something
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
Suburban paranoia is probably the most dangerous thing in America. Some of these people should take a trip down to their nearest inner city and compare real thugs and banger to this kid walking down the street. If he was a real banger like the ones I spent my childhood hiding from, old Zimmy would have been dead and left in the street instantly. Its pathetically hilarious watching people try to mold this kid into some banger.[/QUOTE]

I just have to comment on this as I have seen you post it a few times. This always makes me laugh when I see someone say it. The people you describe don't scare me (except maybe for the randomness of innocent people getting killed by their extreme stupidity) I also would not consider them to be bad asses. To me they have always been a joke and nowhere near what they think of themselves. I do understand though that as a kid and living with it is scary but as far as the badass scale they rank right at the bottom compared to the several types of people I have been around in the past. No contest.

I don't think he was a banger but I do think he was one of those wanna be thug types that as you say have no idea.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Just to dip my toe in the water, then quickly exit the pool, I hope that people who rushed to judgement on both ends of the spectrum, are sensible enough to revise their views as facts, not opinions, get released regardint this case.

When the news first came out, I was quick to claim some racist scumbag, unprovoked, for no other purpose than his own biases, attacked and killed a black baby.

As more information has come out, the whole issue has become much murkier for me. The fact that Zimmerman had facial injuries in line with catching an asswhooping should be acknowledged by those who claimed he had no injuries. We don't know who started the physical altercation, but we clearly know who ended it. I'm not sure the real story will ever come out in great detail, but goddamn, all the speculation is insane, and people on both spectrums really need to update their view on the matter as facts trickle out.

Alright, I'm out of here. Sorry for pissing in the pool![/QUOTE]

piss away ;)
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
Seriously. It's ok to not know about the hood but your judgements based on pure ignore and movies is like talking about how hard your life is in a middle class down in America to a kid from Iraq. I don't get why people from the burbs can't just admit to themselves that some people had a shitter life then them. [/QUOTE]

Some people are self-centered and just don't care about others hardships. Some don't want to acknowledge it because as you say later in your post they would realize maybe they don't or didn't have it so bad.
But then again who are we to judge and say "well that's nothing when I was young I had to ___".
People have different probelms in life and there is always somebody worse off. Comparing your life to theirs and getting upset that they don't understand is not healthy trust me I know. The best we can do is acknowledge that there are people worse off and count our blesings and be thankful while ENCOURAGING others to do the same (sometimes on deaf ears).
Take my youth..... here is just a small piece
...My mom went to prison my dad used to beat me so bad I ended up in the er and hospital multiple times. One time he purposely dumped boiling water down my back. He raped my sister. This is just a small piece. I ran and was homeless alot but went to school and played sports.... worked crap crap jobs in any spare hours and paid for my own cloths food etc..and would stay with friends on their floor porch whatever whenever I could until I earned enough money to get a POS beater up car I could use to work and go to school and live in this was at 14 (the car/home).
I found a girl who saved my life, literally, and a few weeks before our wedding after graduating HS she was killed in a car crash. The love of my life and my saviour and the only person I loved (beside my sister) and loved me at the time GONE. I almost didn't recover from that one
Anyway that is a small piece of me in that time period (there is actually more horror then that not to mention the bad things and people I got involved with) and I learned not to compare my life to those that had it better and not get upset about the ignorant on the matter. As I said I counted my blessings and have always thought about the less fortunate.

The bigger point is how can anyone understand that part of my life if they never really lived it or your years in fear and hell? They can't and I don't expect them to.
 
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Reports are Martin had drugs in his system. I believe Zimmerman told the police, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something." It looks like he may have been right about the drugs. With so much talk that Zimmerman profiled Martin, I would say this is a pretty important bit of info. I don't think the detailed toxicology info has been publically released yet.
 
[quote name='caltab']Reports are Martin had drugs in his system. I believe Zimmerman told the police, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something." It looks like he may have been right about the drugs. With so much talk that Zimmerman profiled Martin, I would say this is a pretty important bit of info. I don't think the detailed toxicology info has been publically released yet.[/QUOTE]


I skimmed through that first report and didn't see anything mentioning toxicology results unless it was in that one page that was unreadable.

IMO it shouldn't matter if Martin was on drugs or not unless it was something like PCP or Bath Salts which can be proven to make one act delusional or over aggressive. But we all know that if he was it will be used in Zimmerman's defense.

I do think that it will be difficult now with this information released to get a 2nd degree murder conviction but who knows.
 
[quote name='caltab']Reports are Martin had drugs in his system. I believe Zimmerman told the police, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something." It looks like he may have been right about the drugs. With so much talk that Zimmerman profiled Martin, I would say this is a pretty important bit of info. I don't think the detailed toxicology info has been publically released yet.[/QUOTE]
All that means is that he smoked some weed some time within the last month of his life, not that he was high that night. He was also on the phone with his gf the entire time which could also explain why he looked "odd" while walking down the street. Not to mention that he knew he was being followed so that makes for an even more likely explanation as to why Martin's behavior seemed "strange."

And for extra credit, Zimmerman was also taking prescription drugs for his insomnia at that time, but no, let's just focus on Martin's recreational drug use that millions of other use recreationally as well.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']I skimmed through that first report and didn't see anything mentioning toxicology results unless it was in that one page that was unreadable.

IMO it shouldn't matter if Martin was on drugs or not unless it was something like PCP or Bath Salts which can be proven to make one act delusional or over aggressive. But we all know that if he was it will be used in Zimmerman's defense.

I do think that it will be difficult now with this information released to get a 2nd degree murder conviction but who knows.[/QUOTE]

It matters in terms of whether or not he profiled Martin. Zimmerman has been torn apart for profiling Martin-the DA even used the term. If Martin actually was on drugs, as Zimmerman told the police it certainly could be used to call into question whether profiling occurred. Probably wont matter much in the criminal trial, but maybe in the eyes of public opinion.
 
[quote name='dohdough']All that means is that he smoked some weed some time within the last month of his life, not that he was high that night. He was also on the phone with his gf the entire time which could also explain why he looked "odd" while walking down the street. Not to mention that he knew he was being followed so that makes for an even more likely explanation as to why Martin's behavior seemed "strange."

And for extra credit, Zimmerman was also taking prescription drugs for his insomnia at that time, but no, let's just focus on Martin's recreational drug use that millions of other use recreationally as well.[/QUOTE]


I could be wrong, but I believe the news said that the tests show he smoked that night. The more detailed toxicology info that would potentially give more info as to when he may have smoked or show how high or not high he was has not been released.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']I skimmed through that first report and didn't see anything mentioning toxicology results unless it was in that one page that was unreadable.[/QUOTE]
It's on the 14th page starting from the 1st. It's a couple pages after the unreadable pages.

IMO it shouldn't matter if Martin was on drugs or not unless it was something like PCP or Bath Salts which can be proven to make one act delusional or over aggressive. But we all know that if he was it will be used in Zimmerman's defense.

I do think that it will be difficult now with this information released to get a 2nd degree murder conviction but who knows.
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2nd degree was a ploy to get Zimmerman to plea. I don't think even they thought they had a realistic shot at it.
 
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OFF topic but since when is using an illegal drug that is directly responsible for thousands of murders and deaths considered an acceptable recreational activity?

I think that is really burying the head in the sand. I prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']OFF topic but since when is using an illegal drug that is directly responsible for thousands of murders and deaths considered an acceptable recreational activity?

I think that is really burying the head in the sand. I prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.[/QUOTE]
OFF topic, but alcohol is directly related to millions of deaths PER YEAR and it's legal and it's considered acceptable.

I think that anyone not discussing this problem is burying their head in the sand. I too prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.:roll:
 
[quote name='dohdough']All that means is that he smoked some weed some time within the last month of his life, not that he was high that night.[/quote]
Since the full toxicology report has not been released how can you honestly sit there and assume anything such as you do in this statement? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Like I kept saying when I last commented in this thread, none of us were there. So none of us know what Martin or Zimmerman was doing before or during this incident. If the kid was on something more powerful than weed such as PCP, then I could see why Zimmerman would have feared for his life due to the known potential side effects of the drug.
He was also on the phone with his gf the entire time which could also explain why he looked "odd" while walking down the street.
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Yeah. Because people just casually walking down the street look unusual with a cell phone up to their ears. That's such a normal behavior nowadays that most people wouldn't give anyone doing it a second look. That is, unless they're ridiculously loud/argumentative while on the phone. So maybe Martin was arguing with his girlfriend on the phone(or maybe he was having involuntary movements of his arms/legs due to a drug in his system). We'll never know since there is no video of his behavior that night.
Not to mention that he knew he was being followed so that makes for an even more likely explanation as to why Martin's behavior seemed "strange."
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Or it could be that he had a tic from drug use and/or was feeling paranoid, as that is one of the side effects that even marijuana produces in people.
And for extra credit, Zimmerman was also taking prescription drugs for his insomnia at that time, but no, let's just focus on Martin's recreational drug use that millions of other use recreationally as well.
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Yep. Let's focus on Martin because he may have had an ILLEGAL substance in his body as opposed to George Zimmerman who was taking prescription drugs at that time. Big difference between drugs obtained with a prescription and illegal street drugs. That is, unless those script drugs were obtained with a forged prescription or otherwise obtained illegally. But I'm sure that's a talking point for your reply to me, in that Zimmerman likely had illegal prescription drugs, even though none of us have any proof of anything other than what has been released by the authorities as of now.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Since the full toxicology report has not been released how can you honestly sit there and assume anything such as you do in this statement? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Like I kept saying when I last commented in this thread, none of us were there. So none of us know what Martin or Zimmerman was doing before or during this incident. If the kid was on something more powerful than weed such as PCP, then I could see why Zimmerman would have feared for his life due to the known potential side effects of the drug.[/QUOTE]

Except he wasn't on Pcp and it was already determined the level of THC was so low it had no effect on that night and was probably in his system for days which again has nothing to do with that night so please do continue to talk out of your ass.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer'] Big difference between drugs obtained with a prescription and illegal street drugs.[/QUOTE]

Just an honest question :What is that "big difference" ?
 
[quote name='GBAstar']IMO it shouldn't matter if Martin was on drugs or not unless it was something like PCP or Bath Salts which can be proven to make one act delusional or over aggressive. But we all know that if he was it will be used in Zimmerman's defense.[/QUOTE]

Seeing as weed can potentially make one paranoid, alter one's perception of reality, and influence decision making, yeah, it does matter. You know, there have been times where I have walked through neighborhoods where I might not be a welcomed guest, and I felt like I was being potentially followed or shadowed. Guess what I did? Kept my ass moving. I didn't turn around and try to fight the guy....because he might have had a gun...
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Since the full toxicology report has not been released how can you honestly sit there and assume anything such as you do in this statement? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Like I kept saying when I last commented in this thread, none of us were there. So none of us know what Martin or Zimmerman was doing before or during this incident. If the kid was on something more powerful than weed such as PCP, then I could see why Zimmerman would have feared for his life due to the known potential side effects of the drug.[/QUOTE]
PCP isn't THC. You couldn't have picked two drugs with more opposite effects.

Yeah. Because people just casually walking down the street look unusual with a cell phone up to their ears. That's such a normal behavior nowadays that most people wouldn't give anyone doing it a second look. That is, unless they're ridiculously loud/argumentative while on the phone. So maybe Martin was arguing with his girlfriend on the phone(or maybe he was having involuntary movements of his arms/legs due to a drug in his system). We'll never know since there is no video of his behavior that night.
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Yeah...no one ever makes gestures with their hands, nods, or make any physical movements that mimic an in-person conversation while on the phone.

LOLZ@ involuntary movements. You can't be fucking forrealz with that shit. Do you have any experience with people that just smoked up or were on any type of drugs? Because it sure as hell sounds like you don't know jack shit about it.

As for video, there's an alleged security video from the clubhouse and as for not knowing anything, we actually know enough to establish probable cause as noted in the original police report.

Or it could be that he had a tic from drug use and/or was feeling paranoid, as that is one of the side effects that even marijuana produces in people.
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LOLZ for the doubledown.

Yep. Let's focus on Martin because he may have had an ILLEGAL substance in his body as opposed to George Zimmerman who was taking prescription drugs at that time. Big difference between drugs obtained with a prescription and illegal street drugs. That is, unless those script drugs were obtained with a forged prescription or otherwise obtained illegally. But I'm sure that's a talking point for your reply to me, in that Zimmerman likely had illegal prescription drugs, even though none of us have any proof of anything other than what has been released by the authorities as of now.
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Uhhh...you're a fucking idiot? Cause it sounds like you once again didn't read a goddamn thing directly from the data dump a few hours ago. If you're going to make the argument that drugs=bad, then the fact that Zimmerman being often under the influence of addictive sleeping pills should also factor into the equation, but you know what? The fact that Martin toked up or Zimmerman took pills to get some sleep doesn't really matter.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Seeing as weed can potentially make one paranoid, alter one's perception of reality, and influence decision making, yeah, it does matter. You know, there have been times where I have walked through neighborhoods where I might not be a welcomed guest, and I felt like I was being potentially followed or shadowed. Guess what I did? Kept my ass moving. I didn't turn around and try to fight the guy....because he might have had a gun...[/QUOTE]
He had 1.5ng per mL of blood. To put this in perspective, he could've taken a piss AND blood test for a job and no one would've known because most tests will flag 50ng and only the strictest test flag at 25ng. Martin's highest level on another sample was still only 7.4ng. At that level, you could've just been getting second-hand devil weed smoke and hit that.
 
[quote name='dohdough']He had 1.5ng per mL of blood. To put this in perspective, he could've taken a piss AND blood test for a job and no one would've known because most tests will flag 50ng and only the strictest test flag at 25ng. Martin's highest level on another sample was still only 7.4ng. At that level, you could've just been getting second-hand devil weed smoke and hit that.[/QUOTE]


To be fair, and I could be wrong the results from the toxicology report are based on blood. Urine samples are not measured the same.

From NHTSA:

harmacokinetics: Absorption is slower following the oral route of administration with lower, more delayed peak THC levels. Bioavailability is reduced following oral ingestion due to extensive first pass metabolism. Smoking marijuana results in rapid absorption with peak THC plasma concentrations occurring prior to the end of smoking. Concentrations vary depending on the potency of marijuana and the manner in which the drug is smoked, however, peak plasma concentrations of 100-200 ng/mL are routinely encountered. Plasma THC concentrations generally fall below 5 ng/mL less than 3 hours after smoking. THC is highly lipid soluble, and plasma and urinary elimination half-lives are best estimated at 3-4 days, where the rate-limiting step is the slow redistribution to plasma of THC sequestered in the tissues. Shorter half-lives are generally reported due to limited collection intervals and less sensitive analytical methods. Plasma THC concentrations in occasional users rapidly fall below limits of quantitation within 8 to 12 h. THC is rapidly and extensively metabolized with very little THC being excreted unchanged from the body. THC is primarily metabolized to 11-hydroxy-THC which has equipotent psychoactivity. The 11-hydroxy-THC is then rapidly metabolized to the 11-nor-9-carboxy-THC (THC-COOH) which is not psychoactive. A majority of THC is excreted via the feces (~65%) with approximately 30% of the THC being eliminated in the urine as conjugated glucuronic acids and free THC hydroxylated metabolites.


Edit: I didn't see urine results anywhere in that report. If what I quoted is true blood (plasma) results often can't detect THC even after 8 to 12 hours of use.

While right after smoking someone may have levels of 100-200ng/ml they did state that afer 3 hours of use that level can drop to around 5ng/ml. Several factors come into play including height, weight, body composition but with Martin being at 1.xng/ml it very well indicates he smoked that day.

Again this is based off my assumption that the report was using a blood test.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']The legality of drugs obtained via legit scripts versus street/"recreational" drugs.[/QUOTE]

Legality of obtaining them or legality of effects of drug use within the court of law?

While we're on the THC topic.To be fair I think I should point out Zimmerman was prescribed temazepam. Temezapam is a benzodiazapine for people with sleep disorders. Side Effects can include: aggression, violence, impulsivity, irritability , disinhibition and so on.
 
[quote name='dohdough']
let's just focus on Martin's recreational drug use that millions of other use recreationally as well.[/QUOTE]


[quote name='Pliskin101']OFF topic but since when is using an illegal drug that is directly responsible for thousands of murders and deaths considered an acceptable recreational activity?

I think that is really burying the head in the sand. I prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dohdough']OFF topic, but alcohol is directly related to millions of deaths PER YEAR and it's legal and it's considered acceptable.

I think that anyone not discussing this problem is burying their head in the sand. I too prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.:roll:[/QUOTE]

Still Off Topic but....Even for you to defend a drug that is ILLEGAL and is the direct cause of tens of thousand of murders rape and kidnappings is a effing stretch. Alcohol is LEGAL and while you may not like it as many don't it is legal and if you want to change that I suggest you start writing your political reps and not use it or be a part of the problem.

Illegal pot is directly tied to tens of thousands of deaths murders rapes kidnappings and widespread economic issues coupled with corruption and bribery.

You can defend the illegal activity and try to downplay that it is illegal and contains the problems I mentioned but you are still the one truly burying your head in the sand or maybe the pot bag?

You see how that works? I didn't defend alcohol problems by down playing it as some TOTALLY innocent recreation nor did I take it to something else like smoking cigarettes as being somehow worse than tens of thousands of rape murders etc etc etc (you know like you did to alcohol). You can twist it anyway you want but it is illegal and is the direct cause of all that I mentioned. I know most illegal drug users aren't aware (for obvious reasons) that their illegal crud just doesn't automatically appear like magic in their pocket when they want it but that it comes from somewhere that has direct ties to all the major criminal activities and atrocities I mentioned and there is no excuse for that type of ignorance or DENIAL.
 
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[quote name='GBAstar']To be fair, and I could be wrong the results from the toxicology report are based on blood. Urine samples are not measured the same.

From NHTSA:

harmacokinetics: Absorption is slower following the oral route of administration with lower, more delayed peak THC levels. Bioavailability is reduced following oral ingestion due to extensive first pass metabolism. Smoking marijuana results in rapid absorption with peak THC plasma concentrations occurring prior to the end of smoking. Concentrations vary depending on the potency of marijuana and the manner in which the drug is smoked, however, peak plasma concentrations of 100-200 ng/mL are routinely encountered. Plasma THC concentrations generally fall below 5 ng/mL less than 3 hours after smoking. THC is highly lipid soluble, and plasma and urinary elimination half-lives are best estimated at 3-4 days, where the rate-limiting step is the slow redistribution to plasma of THC sequestered in the tissues. Shorter half-lives are generally reported due to limited collection intervals and less sensitive analytical methods. Plasma THC concentrations in occasional users rapidly fall below limits of quantitation within 8 to 12 h. THC is rapidly and extensively metabolized with very little THC being excreted unchanged from the body. THC is primarily metabolized to 11-hydroxy-THC which has equipotent psychoactivity. The 11-hydroxy-THC is then rapidly metabolized to the 11-nor-9-carboxy-THC (THC-COOH) which is not psychoactive. A majority of THC is excreted via the feces (~65%) with approximately 30% of the THC being eliminated in the urine as conjugated glucuronic acids and free THC hydroxylated metabolites.


Edit: I didn't see urine results anywhere in that report. If what I quoted is true blood (plasma) results often can't detect THC even after 8 to 12 hours of use.

While right after smoking someone may have levels of 100-200ng/ml they did state that afer 3 hours of use that level can drop to around 5ng/ml. Several factors come into play including height, weight, body composition but with Martin being at 1.xng/ml it very well indicates he smoked that day.

Again this is based off my assumption that the report was using a blood test.[/QUOTE]
It was a blood test, so that means that he more than likely smoked up before the All-Star game. It's also more than likely that he had sobered up by the time he was killed as indicated by the THC levels.
 
[quote name='dohdough']It was a blood test, so that means that he more than likely smoked up before the All-Star game. It's also more than likely that he had sobered up by the time he was killed as indicated by the THC levels.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely agree. I don't think he was "high" at the time he was shot. I would have to read up a little bit more on THC testing but I know it is fat soluble unlike alcohol and that is why unlike alcohol it stays in your system (to a detectable point) for weeks after use.

However since the results that were released were blood (plasma) results it's unfair for someone to say because it was just 1.x ng/ml that he could have smoked days prior.... This is certainly not true because in as little as 8 hours after smoking it can become impossible to detect THC in the blood. That is why urine tests are used as the standard.

Which is what I have a problem with. I hate how agencies have set "standards" of what is considered acceptable levels of consumption when it is widely accepted that factors including gender, age, weight, body composition, frequency of use all play a huge part in tolerance. I'm quite positive that when I used to drink heavily even with a BAC of .20 I could function better then a 21 year old girl with a BAC of .07 but the law doesn't see it that way. In some states (using a urine or saliva test) with a marijuana concentration of just 5 ng/ml you will be convicted of an OUI and in many users all that proves is they smoked earlier that MONTH while in other states it's zero tolerance (i.e. you'll get an OUI for just having a positive test).

Oh well... back on topic.

Drugs are bad.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Even for you to defend a drug that is ILLEGAL and is the direct cause of tens of thousand of murders rape and kidnappings is a effing stretch. Alcohol is LEGAL and while you may not like it as many don't it is legal and if you want to change that I suggest you start writing your political reps and not use it or be a part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
It's not illegal all over the world, much less the US. If you don't think that alcohol causes murders, rapes, and kidnappings equal to or more than weed, I have a fucking bridge to sell you.

As I said I know my acceptable recreational activities are legal and don't directly cause deaths rapes kidnappings and widespread economic issues coupled with corruption and bribery.
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HAHAHAH...this is funny because you literally have no idea how any of your consumer items are made or sourced. Where the hell do you think the raw materials for the computer your posting your ignorant rants come from? How about your cellphone? How about your PS3? What do you think will happen to those things once you're done with them? How do you think the oil in your car is procured?

Do an inventory of how many items you own were made or have parts made in China. Do you seriously think that they're made under circumstance on the up and up? Hell, just look up all the problems with Nestle and see if you have any Nestle products.

You can defend the illegal activity and try to downplay that it is illegal and contains the problems I mentioned but you are still the one truly burying your head in the sand or maybe the pot bag?
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Actually, I'm just not delusional about where it is on the scale of Bad Things. I'm also aware of how certain controlled substances have different places on the socially acceptability and criminal offense ladder.

You see how that works? I didn't defend alcohol problems by down playing it as some innocent recreation nor did I take it to something else like smoking cigarettes as being somehow worse than tens of thousands of rape murders etc etc etc (you know like you did to alcohol). You can twist it anyway you want but it is illegal and is the direct cause of all that I mentioned. I know most illegal drug users aren't aware (for obvious reasons) that their illegal crud just doesn't automatically appear like magic in their pocket when they want it but that it comes from somewhere that has direct ties to all the major criminal activities and atrocities I mentioned and there is no excuse for that type of ignorance or DENIAL.
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You know what else is illegal, directly causes numerous deaths, and everyone does? Speeding.:whee:
 
DohDough...So you are okay with illegal drugs and use and deny that it causes everything I said?
By that last post it seems you do. You see as I pointed out in my last post we can get into a conversation about fertilizer, oil, trans fat, rubber and on and on and on but I was specifically talking about marijuana in response to your post about it. The easy way to clear it up is answer my question and actually discuss it instead of trying to spin away from it. I will gladly discuss the problems with all kinds of products and activities with you but first answer my questions since you seem to have a problem with my posts about the problems with illegal drug use. You see I can discuss with honesty any of those other things so why can't you with the topic of my post that you responded to with nonsense. If you didn't want to discuss that topic then you should have ignored me and it. So man up and quit playing childish games.
 
[quote name='renique46']Cant believe i just read someone try to downplay the effects alcohol can cause just because its legal. sigh :applause:[/QUOTE]

where did you read that? please share
 
Martin's girlfriend will likely be the key to any type of successful prosecution of Zimmerman. Based on the other evidence, I think its going to be crucial for the state to somehow show Zimmerman instigated a physical confrontation. This tidbit was among the info released today.

An unnamed girl, the one identified by the Martin family attorney as Trayvon's girlfriend, may be one of the case's most important witnesses. She told prosecutors that she and Trayvon talked by cellphone on and off as he went to the store that evening.
She said Trayvon told her a white man in a vehicle was watching him. Trayvon started walking, and the call cut off, she said. When she called back, "he said this man is still following him."
The girl said Trayvon started running, "and then he said he lost him [Zimmerman]," she said, adding that the teen's "voice kind of changed … I could tell he was scared. And in a couple minutes, he said a man's following him again."
She said Trayvon asked, "Why are you following me for?" and a man's voice said, "What are you doing around here?" Then she heard a noise, and the call cut off.
Click to expand...
She may be the only evidence that directly contradicts Zimmerman's story. Her testimony probably still wont show who actually instigated physical contact but it would certainly go against Zimmerman's assertion he was jumped by Martin. Her credibility will be a huge factor in convicting Zimmerman IMO.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']DohDough...So you are okay with illegal drugs and use and deny that it causes everything I said?
By that last post it seems you do. You see as I pointed out in my last post we can get into a conversation about fertilizer, oil, trans fat, rubber and on and on and on but I was specifically talking about marijuana in response to your post about it. The easy way to clear it up is answer my question and actually discuss it instead of trying to spin away from it. I will gladly discuss the problems with all kinds of products and activities with you but first answer my questions since you seem to have a problem with my posts about the problems with illegal drug use. You see I can discuss with honesty any of those other things so why can't you with the topic of my post that you responded to with nonsense. If you didn't want to discuss that topic then you should have ignored me and it. So man up and quit playing childish games.[/QUOTE]
How the hell do you interpret me saying that alcohol causes more harm than weed as being in denial of the harm it causes when I said it two freaking posts above yours. Seriously...WTF.

And weren't you the one that argued this turd:

[quote name='Pliskin101']OFF topic but since when is using an illegal drug that is directly responsible for thousands of murders and deaths considered an acceptable recreational activity?

I think that is really burying the head in the sand. I prefer my recreation to be one that is a little more innocent.

Just saying.[/QUOTE]
You JUST fucking argued that weed being illegal should be an unacceptable form of recreation because it directly causes murders and deaths, yet you handwave alcohol despite it causing MORE deaths just because it's legal and therefore acceptable. If weed is unacceptable while directly causing less harm than alcohol, what does it say about the concept of illegality and how we define what is acceptable? And what does that say about your other recreational activities?

Hell, you were the one that wanted to take the "debate" in this direction and opened yourself up for these arguments. Don't hate on me because you can't argue your case.
 
I never said anything defending alcohol (NEVER) or denying its effects much less "handwaving" deaths caused by it NEVER!!

But thanks for responding to my post without truly responding to the actual content and question of my post (just like the other responses to me). It shows what most everyone here knows you are no man and childish as hell.
I knew you couldn't man up. Typical. Go ahead and play your games.

Thanks also for alluding to, by all of your responses to me, that because there are other bads then the bad of illegal drugs/use and it's problems are then somehow magically made okay or doesn't exist. Since you don't want to MAN UP and answer the topic and questions directly we are left with that. Adult sane responses by you to the topic. NOT!!

Want to try again? Is it possible for you to MAN UP?

edit: Focus DohDough I have hope for you.. not really buts let's try anyway...FOCUS. You even quoted me above in my first post on the topic "OFF topic but since when is using an illegal drug that is directly responsible for thousands of murders and deaths considered an acceptable recreational activity?

FOCUS dohdough it is illegal drugs/use and its direct ties with horrific costs to life and humanity.

Here was the last question I posted so try to focus "So you are okay with illegal drugs and use and deny that it causes everything I said?"
You can break it down to 1. So are you okay with ILLEGAL DRUG use? 2. Do you deny it (illegal drugs/use) is directly responsible for everything I said it is?
(kidnapping rape and murder by the thousands as the top three)

Show us all that big brain of yours and give it that good old college try (if you truly went to college) and don't give the same playground and or mental ward rhetoric unless that is all you are capable of..

edit: I know it's not illegal EVERYWHERE I was talking about where it is illegal and its ILLEGAL use and the enormous problems and god awful crimes that accompany it. Nor am I was I talking about whether it should or shouldn't be illegal. Illegal use is directly responsible for horrific crimes. I personally can't condone or be a part of illegal use because of what is behind it. Also as I said I will gladly discuss other BAD things, activities, recreations, products etc etc with you and offer my opinions (which i have not yet) legal or illegal when you man up to this topic and my questions.
 
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Did you guys know that regardless of what was in his system or what he was doing that Trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman listened to the cops and didn't leave his car?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Did you guys know that regardless of what was in his system or what he was doing that Trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman listened to the cops and didn't leave his car?[/QUOTE]


When did the cops instruct Zimmerman to stay in his car? I believe the 911 dispatcher (not a cop) told him "We don't need you to do that" in response to Zimmerman commenting that he was going to follow Martin.


But it is fun to twist words and make it sound like he disobeyed a direct order or violated a command and went rogue vigalante on Martin.

No... Martin would still be alive today if Zimmerman was never granted a concealed weapon permit.
 
He also responded "ok" to the dispatchers statement- a fact almost always disregarded by the media. This is no small detail because Zimmerman actually claims he was going back to his car and was confronted. Obviously, it remains to be seen what evidence exists to back up or contradict his account, but simply assuming its false without seeing all the evidence is premature. Especially given reports are he passed a voice stress test.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Did you guys know that regardless of what was in his system or what he was doing that Trayvon would be alive if Zimmerman listened to the cops and didn't leave his car?[/QUOTE]

Yep...if he'd listened to the 9/11 dispatcher none of this would have happened.

It's NEVER a citizen's place to confront someone they think is suspicious. Call the cops and let them do their job. A citizen should never get involved unless it's a case of imminent danger where they have to defend themselves or others.

Better yet, none of it would happen if he wasn't so fucking paranoid and had such a low threshold for what makes someone suspicious.

Again, stupid ass suburbanites. I'd love to see how some whackjob like Zimmerman would manage living in a city like Atlanta where even the nice areas have lots of homeless and other sketchy people stumbling around when something as simple as a black teen in a hoody is suspicious to him. Much less if he had to live in a high crime hot spot in a bad area of a big city. :lol:
 
[quote name='GBAstar']When did the cops instruct Zimmerman to stay in his car? I believe the 911 dispatcher (not a cop) told him "We don't need you to do that" in response to Zimmerman commenting that he was going to follow Martin.


But it is fun to twist words and make it sound like he disobeyed a direct order or violated a command and went rogue vigalante on Martin.

No... Martin would still be alive today if Zimmerman was never granted a concealed weapon permit.[/QUOTE]
If you really want to play the technicality game, Zimmerman is technically guilty of stalking Martin according to Florida law.

While your assertion that Martin would be alive if Zimmerman was never given a CCW is correct, but are you saying that he'd kill someone eventually, his history should have restricted him from getting one, or that CCW is bad in general?

[quote name='caltab']He also responded "ok" to the dispatchers statement- a fact almost always disregarded by the media. This is no small detail because Zimmerman actually claims he was going back to his car and was confronted. Obviously, it remains to be seen what evidence exists to back up or contradict his account, but simply assuming its false without seeing all the evidence is premature. Especially given reports are he passed a voice stress test.[/QUOTE]
Zimmerman also claims that he was walking back to check the street he was on...after he was able to identify his exact location from a car in the rain...in a neighborhood that he patrols...a neighborhood with 3 whole streets to keep track of. I'm going to invoke Occam's Razor on this one and say that Zimmerman is full of shit.

Also, if by voice stress test, you mean a lie detector test, they're inadmissible in court. Even if he "passed," the prosecution would never allow it.
 
"lie detectors" are usually polygraphs, which don't measure any kind of sound, let alone stress in your voice.
 
[quote name='Clak']"lie detectors" are usually polygraphs, which don't measure any kind of sound, let alone stress in your voice.[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right. I just bunched them together because lie detector tests, in whichever form they take, are pure hokum and a tool that law enforcement uses to try and get a suspect to flip as well as being less than 100% accurate.
 
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