Bush was briefed on the severity of Katrina before it hit NO

ZarathosNY

ZarathosNY

CAGiversary!
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/30/State/For_forecasting_chief.shtml

Of course, this little bit of info wasn't enough for Bush to end his vacation.


For forecasting chief, no joy in being right

Max Mayfield strives for accuracy, but worries about complacency.

By TAMARA LUSH, Times Staff Writer
Published August 30, 2005

MIAMI - About an hour after Hurricane Katrina made landfall, forecasters at the National Hurricane Center were running on adrenaline and sugar. Few had slept much in recent days, if at all.

Director Max Mayfield's eyes were puffy, his voice slightly cracked from giving interviews to media outlets around the world.

"I don't even know what day it is," said Mayfield.

Mayfield and the team of forecasters in Miami had just achieved the near-impossible.

At 11 p.m. Friday, more than two days before Katrina reached land, the hurricane specialists said the hurricane would make landfall in the bayous of Louisiana, east of New Orleans. They pinpointed a town called Buras as the most likely place it would strike.

They were off by 18 miles. In the business of hurricane prediction, that's laser-beam accuracy.

"A superb forecast," Mayfield said.

It was not something to celebrate; any happiness gave way to melancholy.

"I hate to be bragging about that when there are people killed," he said.

Another worry of Mayfield's is that people will start to put too much faith in the hurricane center's forecasts and ignore warnings for other, nearby areas.

Mayfield pointed to his own hometown Miami as an example. People in southern Miami-Dade County were surprised by Katrina because the hurricane center said the storm would come ashore in Broward County and northern Miami-Dade. Instead it veered at the last minute, striking Homestead and Florida City.

This is the life of a hurricane forecaster: being reviled one moment and lauded the next.

Mayfield understands this. Which is why he won't stop hounding people, giving warnings, making calls when a storm approaches.

On Saturday night, Mayfield was so worried about Hurricane Katrina that he called the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and the mayor of New Orleans. On Sunday, he even talked about the force of Katrina during a video conference call to President Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

"I just wanted to be able to go to sleep that night knowing that I did all I could do," Mayfield said.
 
Last year: "This was a historical memo. . . . It was not based on new threat information."

This year: "This was a historical phone call. . . . It was not based on new threat information."
 
So was Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco.

Look at their stellar performances.

Is this all you people have? Hurricane stuff?

What about the really important quest of Cindy Sheehan? What about the fact that Bush is going to get to appoint another Supreme Court justice?

There are other issues out there and I think you've done all the Bush bashing that's going to do any good around here. You hate the guy, we get it. We got it years ago.

You still lost the election and keep on losing on your current blame bush for everything mantra.

Get over it already.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']So was Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco.

Look at their stellar performances.

Is this all you people have? Hurricane stuff?

What about the really important quest of Cindy Sheehan? What about the fact that Bush is going to get to appoint another Supreme Court justice?

There are other issues out there and I think you've done all the Bush bashing that's going to do any good around here. You hate the guy, we get it. We got it years ago.

You still lost the election and keep on losing on your current blame bush for everything mantra.

Get over it already.[/QUOTE]

This isn't about Bush bashing, PAD, although he is the head of the government and therefore the place where the buck allegedly stops.

This is about the fact that there are demonstrably incompetent folks running FEMA, and possibly even the Department of Homeland Security. People died because of their missteps. This is not a fact that can be debated.

Given that, should these people be replaced, PAD, with competent experts who will protect people? And if so, why aren't you standing with the rest of us in asking for those resignations?
 
I agree. Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco need to resign immediately.

Where have decades of Democratic rule left the citizens of Louisiana? Up shit creek without a paddle. They've known about this situation for a half a century or more and never rectified it.

Lousiana representative Billy Tauzin once said of Louisiana; "Half the state is under sea level, the other half is under indictment.". Now you'll see exactly what decades of completely inept and Democratic rule has brought the citizens of the great state of Louisiana.

The party in that state is equivilent to the Romanovs and the court of Louis the XIVth in being completely unaware that their actions and inactions would lead to an inevitable disaster.

I will say this though as far as the federal level. If I'm not mistaken it's the head of FEMA whose previous job had something to do with horse shows for 11 years and he was fired from it. I will agree with you that someone like that should have never held the position or even been nominated to it.

Beyond that dennis you are seeing what decades of mommy state liberalism has wrought when action mattered.
 
Dennis they're not gonna do shit frankly. Consider this, when Bush ran a press conference with those Bulldozers and construction equipment in the background, almost ALL of them packed up after the conference. The ONLY reason the German news outlet knew about it was because while they were packing up or about to pack up they caught it.
I also heard after Barbara Bush's speech those food tables were alledgedly packed up as well. PAD the Bush Administration doesn't and NEVER will care about poor people.
 
What does it mean to "care" about poor people?

Send them enough checks so they can afford to live in shitty housing in crime ridden and depressed neighborhoods? Have them unable afford decent food and subsist on noodles but won't starve? Keeping their children in government run schools that don't teach and can't advance their lives? Give them enough health care to breed another generation of dependency?

That's the liberal definition of caring for the poor isn't it? $5.5 trillion dollars in 37 years of the Great Society and the government has made things far worse. Liberal programs have stolen millions of people's sense of being, hope for bettering their lives and created nothing but dependence on the next check.

"Caring" in the liberal sense of the world robs people of their ability or willingness to be at all self reliant.
 
>>Keeping their children in government run schools that don't teach and can't advance their lives?

by the by where did you go to school?

I would say "where were you educated" but using that word is a bit much when applied to you,
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I agree. Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco need to resign immediately.

Where have decades of Democratic rule left the citizens of Louisiana? Up shit creek without a paddle. They've known about this situation for a half a century or more and never rectified it.

Lousiana representative Billy Tauzin once said of Louisiana; "Half the state is under sea level, the other half is under indictment.". Now you'll see exactly what decades of completely inept and Democratic rule has brought the citizens of the great state of Louisiana.

The party in that state is equivilent to the Romanovs and the court of Louis the XIVth in being completely unaware that their actions and inactions would lead to an inevitable disaster.

I will say this though as far as the federal level. If I'm not mistaken it's the head of FEMA whose previous job had something to do with horse shows for 11 years and he was fired from it. I will agree with you that someone like that should have never held the position or even been nominated to it.

Beyond that dennis you are seeing what decades of mommy state liberalism has wrought when action mattered.[/QUOTE]

before nagin and blanco get blamed, the senators and representatives of louisiana deserve much more blame. They have heard about this problem and the fact that they did not get the levees made stronger is a travesty that should have never happened

and yea the guy at fema worked as a judge of horse shows
 
[quote name='Msut77']>>Keeping their children in government run schools that don't teach and can't advance their lives?

by the by where did you go to school?

I would say "where were you educated" but using that word is a bit much when applied to you,[/QUOTE]

I went to public grade school and a private high school. Why? Public schools suck.

[quote name='CaseyRyback']and yea the guy at fema worked as a judge of horse shows[/QUOTE]
:roll: Okay, I will point the finger and say they screwed the pooch on that one.

How on Earth does someone with that as their previous job for 11 years get to be head of FEMA?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I went to public grade school and a private high school. Why? Public schools suck.[/QUOTE]

Heh, private schools around here are 5k-15k. You're totally clueless if you think private schools should be the only option or that it's an option open for everyone.

They have heard about this problem and the fact that they did not get the levees made stronger is a travesty that should have never happened
Click to expand...

Federal budgest cuts seemed to be a major issue with this one. It's a very poor state, it doesn't have the reasources of NY, MA etc.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']:roll: Okay, I will point the finger and say they screwed the pooch on that one.

How on Earth does someone with that as their previous job for 11 years get to be head of FEMA?[/QUOTE]

So I take it that you agree with my earlier contention, that Brown and possibly Chertoff should resign in disgrace given their respective mismanagement of FEMA and Homeland Security during this crisis? Or would you prefer Bush fire them to set an example to his other lieutenants?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']I agree. Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco need to resign immediately.

Where have decades of Democratic rule left the citizens of Louisiana? Up shit creek without a paddle. They've known about this situation for a half a century or more and never rectified it.

Lousiana representative Billy Tauzin once said of Louisiana; "Half the state is under sea level, the other half is under indictment.". Now you'll see exactly what decades of completely inept and Democratic rule has brought the citizens of the great state of Louisiana.

The party in that state is equivilent to the Romanovs and the court of Louis the XIVth in being completely unaware that their actions and inactions would lead to an inevitable disaster.

I will say this though as far as the federal level. If I'm not mistaken it's the head of FEMA whose previous job had something to do with horse shows for 11 years and he was fired from it. I will agree with you that someone like that should have never held the position or even been nominated to it.

Beyond that dennis you are seeing what decades of mommy state liberalism has wrought when action mattered.[/QUOTE]



Sorry PAD, but they did a decent job with what they had. Bush had enacted the National Rapid Response plan with the Dept Of Homeland Security, which meant they were supposed to come in and do what needed to be done. They didn't and Bush stayed on vacation. Nagin and Blanco asked for aid they never got in time. Remember, Nagin got 80% of NO evacuated before the storm, and didn't have the resources to get the rest out. The fact is Bush and his administraction are incompetant, and there is no amount of spin you can use to sugar coat it.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Heh, private schools around here are 5k-15k. You're totally clueless if you think private schools should be the only option or that it's an option open for everyone.[/QUOTE]

Alas, unfortunately the teachers' unions and Democratic Party leadership have assured this is not so. What schools need is some more competition and the ability to more easily fire incompetent teachers/administrators.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']So I take it that you agree with my earlier contention, that Brown and possibly Chertoff should resign in disgrace given their respective mismanagement of FEMA and Homeland Security during this crisis? Or would you prefer Bush fire them to set an example to his other lieutenants?[/QUOTE]

Bush should fire both of them, and the people of Louisiana and New Orleans should fire Blanco and Nagin.
 
[quote name='dennis_t']So I take it that you agree with my earlier contention, that Brown and possibly Chertoff should resign in disgrace given their respective mismanagement of FEMA and Homeland Security during this crisis? Or would you prefer Bush fire them to set an example to his other lieutenants?[/QUOTE]

You can't fire cabinent level officials. I don't think Chertoff should be asked to resign. If Brown is the guy that was the horse judge? He never should have been hired. Am I mistaken in thinking the head of FEMA requires Senate approval or has that changed since the Homeland Security came into being? There's no politically saavy way to part ways with him in the next 180 days.

The biggest problem that no one brings up is FEMA is not a first responder organization. They offer free training and are primarily a check writing organization (75% of incurred disaster expenses.) and a co-ordination clearinghouse. There aren't thousands of FEMA workers sitting idly by waiting for disasters to hit.

This issue isn't going to have legs. I guarantee it. There's going to be so much money and so many people cleaning up NO that all these media type estimates are going to be blown away on restoration. It's going to be the speed of recovery that's going to completely mask any perceived delay.

Oh and about the Nagin getting 80% out? The video I saw was tens or hundreds of thousands of cars being driven out of town. Politicians can't take the credit for people having the good sense and foresight to leave. Individuals taking care of themselves aren't the result of political leadership.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']There's no politically saavy way to part ways with him in the next 180 days.[/QUOTE]

And thus you sum up the problem with this Republican administration. Yes, we have a political hack who may have cost thousands of lives through mismanagement -- but jeez, we can't replace him with someone better because it's not politically savvy.

What ever happened to doing the right thing, PAD? I thought that was what Republicans were all about. Doing the right thing regardless of the cost.

Sickening.
 
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