CAG Infraction System Now Active (Beta/Trial)
- Thread starter CheapyD
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[quote name='CocheseUGA']It's a stupid policy, one that was better before it was enforced.
Even if he drops it, I'm not going to.[/QUOTE]
Remember, I called dibs on banning Cochese when he finally goes postal!
[quote name='Chitown021']I'd be interesting in seeing who's getting warned, how many points they've received, and specifically what they were flagged for.
I've though about starting a discussion thread where members could share their stories if they'd like to since the warning system is private (and rightfully so). I hesitate to do so because I'm sure it would be deemed inflammatory and I would be penalized.[/QUOTE]
To be perfectly honest, I would shut this down immediately. I always have and always will maintain that disciplinary actions are a private matter between the member and moderation staff. If a member chooses to share his experience openly, fine, but that doesn't mean moderators will participate in an open discussion. In my experience, such threads end up being shut down because it turns into a hate fest.
[quote name='Rocko']Scare tactics? Just because he didn't get any 'points' this time doesn't mean he won't in the future for something that shouldn't really be discouraged.[/QUOTE]
See, this is a exactly what I am talking about. Rocko is speaking against "the system" and using djkunai's issue as his supporting argument, yet Rocko has no insight whatsoever into djkunai's disciplinary history.
[quote name='mguiddy']Cheapy or one of the mods should put together a post that lists several examples of what is bad and why.[/QUOTE]
Use common sense. It really is that simple. See my signature for a slightly more extensive explanation.
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Agreed. How strict is my main question. A lot of the fun of the threads here are the snarky nature of the posts that (to me) fairly light hearted. I'd hate to see every one of those get moderated.[/QUOTE]
Has the OTT disappeared? No. So why were you worried again?
Even if he drops it, I'm not going to.[/QUOTE]
Remember, I called dibs on banning Cochese when he finally goes postal!
[quote name='Chitown021']I'd be interesting in seeing who's getting warned, how many points they've received, and specifically what they were flagged for.
I've though about starting a discussion thread where members could share their stories if they'd like to since the warning system is private (and rightfully so). I hesitate to do so because I'm sure it would be deemed inflammatory and I would be penalized.[/QUOTE]
To be perfectly honest, I would shut this down immediately. I always have and always will maintain that disciplinary actions are a private matter between the member and moderation staff. If a member chooses to share his experience openly, fine, but that doesn't mean moderators will participate in an open discussion. In my experience, such threads end up being shut down because it turns into a hate fest.
[quote name='Rocko']Scare tactics? Just because he didn't get any 'points' this time doesn't mean he won't in the future for something that shouldn't really be discouraged.[/QUOTE]
See, this is a exactly what I am talking about. Rocko is speaking against "the system" and using djkunai's issue as his supporting argument, yet Rocko has no insight whatsoever into djkunai's disciplinary history.
[quote name='mguiddy']Cheapy or one of the mods should put together a post that lists several examples of what is bad and why.[/QUOTE]
Use common sense. It really is that simple. See my signature for a slightly more extensive explanation.
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Agreed. How strict is my main question. A lot of the fun of the threads here are the snarky nature of the posts that (to me) fairly light hearted. I'd hate to see every one of those get moderated.[/QUOTE]
Has the OTT disappeared? No. So why were you worried again?
[quote name='daphatty']See, this is a exactly what I am talking about. Rocko is speaking against "the system" and using djkunai's issue as his supporting argument, yet Rocko has no insight whatsoever into djkunai's disciplinary history.[/quote]
I'm not using that as a complaint against the system as a whole, I just don't think his post should be punishable as it's a good thing to do for the community. The whole goal of this little program was to clean up the site and whatever, and now the guy trying to help people out is getting punished. Seems ass-backwards.
I'm not using that as a complaint against the system as a whole, I just don't think his post should be punishable as it's a good thing to do for the community. The whole goal of this little program was to clean up the site and whatever, and now the guy trying to help people out is getting punished. Seems ass-backwards.
Mr Unoriginal
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[quote name='daphatty']Has the OTT disappeared? No. So why were you worried again?[/QUOTE]
Well I don't post there, so I wasn't aware, nor did you address the question.
Well I don't post there, so I wasn't aware, nor did you address the question.
CocheseUGA
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What I have a problem with is the unilateral decision on what is what, and why.
[quote name='Rocko']I'm not using that as a complaint against the system as a whole, I just don't think his post should be punishable as it's a good thing to do for the community. The whole goal of this little program was to clean up the site and whatever, and now the guy trying to help people out is getting punished. Seems ass-backwards.[/QUOTE]
Ok. Maybe this point isn't very clear so I will try to fix that.
A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Well I don't post there, so I wasn't aware, nor did you address the question.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, you aren't familiar with the OTT so my answer did not explain my point well enough. The OTT is an example of a thread that contains the type of posts you are concerned with losing. It's still here and it isn't going anywhere. For better or worse, it is a staple of CAG's personality. The purpose of the infraction system is not to kill off the personality of this forum.
As for the "how strict" question - Nothing has changed with regards to the way we interpret individual posts. How strict we are has absolutely nothing to do with the new infraction system. We still are going to judge each and every situation as we did before. The only difference is how we document the corrective actions taken WHEN corrective action is actually taken.
Here's a perfect example:
Those of you who have been here a while may remember Drico. Drico was notorious for starting shit and/or posting links to some very undesirable content. The problem we faced with Drico was an inability to properly keep tabs on his posts. It was extremely time consuming for mods to document every little interaction with him and thus, he spent a shit load more time on this site than he should have. Hell, I still don't know what got him booted from the site. The new system is meant to enable better coordination and communication between the mods to prevent people like Drico from ever becoming a problem.
[quote name='CocheseUGA']What I have a problem with is the unilateral decision on what is what, and why.[/QUOTE]
I can't fault you for believing that. You have no idea what is and is not discussed behind the scenes so all you can do is draw conclusions on the information at hand. To my knowledge, your name has never come up as someone who causes problems on this site so I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you are so incensed at the new system. You've never had a reason to fear us before. Why start now?
Ok. Maybe this point isn't very clear so I will try to fix that.
A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']Well I don't post there, so I wasn't aware, nor did you address the question.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, you aren't familiar with the OTT so my answer did not explain my point well enough. The OTT is an example of a thread that contains the type of posts you are concerned with losing. It's still here and it isn't going anywhere. For better or worse, it is a staple of CAG's personality. The purpose of the infraction system is not to kill off the personality of this forum.
As for the "how strict" question - Nothing has changed with regards to the way we interpret individual posts. How strict we are has absolutely nothing to do with the new infraction system. We still are going to judge each and every situation as we did before. The only difference is how we document the corrective actions taken WHEN corrective action is actually taken.
Here's a perfect example:
Those of you who have been here a while may remember Drico. Drico was notorious for starting shit and/or posting links to some very undesirable content. The problem we faced with Drico was an inability to properly keep tabs on his posts. It was extremely time consuming for mods to document every little interaction with him and thus, he spent a shit load more time on this site than he should have. Hell, I still don't know what got him booted from the site. The new system is meant to enable better coordination and communication between the mods to prevent people like Drico from ever becoming a problem.
[quote name='CocheseUGA']What I have a problem with is the unilateral decision on what is what, and why.[/QUOTE]
I can't fault you for believing that. You have no idea what is and is not discussed behind the scenes so all you can do is draw conclusions on the information at hand. To my knowledge, your name has never come up as someone who causes problems on this site so I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you are so incensed at the new system. You've never had a reason to fear us before. Why start now?
CocheseUGA
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[quote name='daphatty']Ok. Maybe this point isn't very clear so I will try to fix that.
A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.
[/QUOTE]
IT. SHOULDN'T. BE. WRONG.
It doesn't matter if a warning isn't punishment, when the supposed 'violation' rains on the spirit of the site itself, then something is wrong.
What does (or should I say what did) set this site apart was the people who would actually look out for each other and help each other out. The enforcement of the rule is taking that away.
You want to know what made me angry? Just that. Not the idea of infractions, but what you're trying to take away and what you're completely ignoring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're cracking down on the wrong shit.
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.
A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.
[/QUOTE]
IT. SHOULDN'T. BE. WRONG.
It doesn't matter if a warning isn't punishment, when the supposed 'violation' rains on the spirit of the site itself, then something is wrong.
What does (or should I say what did) set this site apart was the people who would actually look out for each other and help each other out. The enforcement of the rule is taking that away.
You want to know what made me angry? Just that. Not the idea of infractions, but what you're trying to take away and what you're completely ignoring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're cracking down on the wrong shit.
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.
[quote name='CocheseUGA']IT. SHOULDN'T. BE. WRONG.
It doesn't matter if a warning isn't punishment, when the supposed 'violation' rains on the spirit of the site itself, then something is wrong.
What does (or should I say what did) set this site apart was the people who would actually look out for each other and help each other out. The enforcement of the rule is taking that away.
You want to know what made me angry? Just that. Not the idea of infractions, but what you're trying to take away and what you're completely ignoring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're cracking down on the wrong shit.
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.[/QUOTE]
Sigh...
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. It is clear that you refuse to see things any other way than your own. As such, I openly acknowledge that I've heard your argument and will respectfully disagree with your opinion.
I know I speak for Cheapy, all of the mods, and the forum guides when I say we are committed to keeping CAG a fun place for everyone to spend their time. I am certain that the majority of our members believe this to be true.
It doesn't matter if a warning isn't punishment, when the supposed 'violation' rains on the spirit of the site itself, then something is wrong.
What does (or should I say what did) set this site apart was the people who would actually look out for each other and help each other out. The enforcement of the rule is taking that away.
You want to know what made me angry? Just that. Not the idea of infractions, but what you're trying to take away and what you're completely ignoring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you're cracking down on the wrong shit.
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.[/QUOTE]
Sigh...
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. It is clear that you refuse to see things any other way than your own. As such, I openly acknowledge that I've heard your argument and will respectfully disagree with your opinion.
I know I speak for Cheapy, all of the mods, and the forum guides when I say we are committed to keeping CAG a fun place for everyone to spend their time. I am certain that the majority of our members believe this to be true.
Regarding examples of infractions.
[quote name='daphatty']Use common sense. It really is that simple. See my signature for a slightly more extensive explanation.[/quote]
Well you're willing to post examples and an explanation of the "Facilitating Piracy" (I just noticed the OP says "Facilitating Game Piracy", did it always say that? Shouldn't all piracy be against the rules) infraction when it gets finalized, it wouldn't be much more work to make examples of the other infractions as well. And despite it's name common sense isn't common. I didn't see a problem with half of the posts that MorPhiend pointed out in the "Is CAG Now Turning Into Cheap GameFAQers?" thread.
I mean why is there
if you cannot call someone out on a deal they posted if it sounds fishy.
[quote name='daphatty']Use common sense. It really is that simple. See my signature for a slightly more extensive explanation.[/quote]
Well you're willing to post examples and an explanation of the "Facilitating Piracy" (I just noticed the OP says "Facilitating Game Piracy", did it always say that? Shouldn't all piracy be against the rules) infraction when it gets finalized, it wouldn't be much more work to make examples of the other infractions as well. And despite it's name common sense isn't common. I didn't see a problem with half of the posts that MorPhiend pointed out in the "Is CAG Now Turning Into Cheap GameFAQers?" thread.
I mean why is there
if you cannot call someone out on a deal they posted if it sounds fishy.
StarKnightX
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[quote name='CocheseUGA']
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.[/QUOTE]
Not that anyone really cares about my 2 cents:
Thread 1 : What exactly do you want the mods to do about that at this point? Locking the thread and stopping anyone else from getting involved while everyone else who is already partipating continues (until amazone catches on at least) seems asisine , so what then rat everyone out to amazon and blow the whole thing? I think the mods really just did about the only thing logical , warn everyone that they don't really support the sharing and that it's against amazons TOS and that if they get busted they're SOL.
Thread 2 : Maybe I just didn't read through the whole thread well enough , but what is the problem here? It's not telling anyone how to mod anything , or telling anyone where to go to get the stuff needed to mod it. It's already been said that indivduals discussing "piracy" they themselves have done may not be against the rules in many cases as long as don't tell others how to do it , where to get them or try to sell them.
Thread 3 : This is the only one I kinda agree with you on , since it is technically against Microsofts TOS however , I suppose that since the thread does specifically say that it's at your own risk and you might be out the game and or the money if you get caught is considered fair warning.
Just my thoughts , not meant to attack you or the mods or anything else.
This thread: wrong (and don't try to tell me a simple mod edit makes it ok, when piracy talk isn't allowed at all)
This thread: wrong.
This thread: wrong, I'm pretty damn sure of it.
So, I ask again: why is the little nitpicky stuff getting trounced on, with no forethought to the spirit of the rule, and big stuff like that allowed? Whether it's real or not, the perception is that it's there because certain people are benefitting by it.[/QUOTE]
Not that anyone really cares about my 2 cents:
Thread 1 : What exactly do you want the mods to do about that at this point? Locking the thread and stopping anyone else from getting involved while everyone else who is already partipating continues (until amazone catches on at least) seems asisine , so what then rat everyone out to amazon and blow the whole thing? I think the mods really just did about the only thing logical , warn everyone that they don't really support the sharing and that it's against amazons TOS and that if they get busted they're SOL.
Thread 2 : Maybe I just didn't read through the whole thread well enough , but what is the problem here? It's not telling anyone how to mod anything , or telling anyone where to go to get the stuff needed to mod it. It's already been said that indivduals discussing "piracy" they themselves have done may not be against the rules in many cases as long as don't tell others how to do it , where to get them or try to sell them.
Thread 3 : This is the only one I kinda agree with you on , since it is technically against Microsofts TOS however , I suppose that since the thread does specifically say that it's at your own risk and you might be out the game and or the money if you get caught is considered fair warning.
Just my thoughts , not meant to attack you or the mods or anything else.
crystalklear64
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So.. wtf is up with my points then?
I posted all my stuff in the OTT and have never gotten disciplined in the past. In fact, I've made several of the same type of MS paint cartoons and never have I even been asked to stop by anyone, including those who the cartoons depict.
This still stands true, as daphatty said nothing about the cartoons, presumably because its the OTT and its pretty much a giant place to hang out and rag on each other, it was LinkinPrime who ended up "coming to the rescue." I can only assume this was because he isn't aware of the way of the OTT.
I posted all my stuff in the OTT and have never gotten disciplined in the past. In fact, I've made several of the same type of MS paint cartoons and never have I even been asked to stop by anyone, including those who the cartoons depict.
This still stands true, as daphatty said nothing about the cartoons, presumably because its the OTT and its pretty much a giant place to hang out and rag on each other, it was LinkinPrime who ended up "coming to the rescue." I can only assume this was because he isn't aware of the way of the OTT.
This should go smoothly...[quote name='crystalklear64']This still stands true, as daphatty said nothing about the cartoons, presumably because its the OTT and its pretty much a giant place to hang out and rag on each other, it was LinkinPrime who ended up "coming to the rescue." I can only assume this was because he isn't aware of the way of the OTT.[/QUOTE]
The only reason I didn't say anything is because Linkin had already done so. You would have received the same points from me.
I am well aware of the "ways of the OTT" but lets be clear, you are not immune in the OTT. We just let more shit slide.
The only reason I didn't say anything is because Linkin had already done so. You would have received the same points from me.
I am well aware of the "ways of the OTT" but lets be clear, you are not immune in the OTT. We just let more shit slide.
I say we get our V for Vendetta masks and our Rick Roll audio and march on Japan.:lol:
I understand keeping the penalties anonymous but the problem with that is people are always going to assume the worst. Also if the person penalized complains they pretty much have the power to just tell their side of the story.
Also mods telling someone that they just got a warning and should drop the issue is the kind of behavior that is ruffling feathers right now. It could be done in a pm or something but when done in public like that it had almost a bullying feel to it. Especially the post saying we can just penalize you for these posts.
I understand keeping the penalties anonymous but the problem with that is people are always going to assume the worst. Also if the person penalized complains they pretty much have the power to just tell their side of the story.
Also mods telling someone that they just got a warning and should drop the issue is the kind of behavior that is ruffling feathers right now. It could be done in a pm or something but when done in public like that it had almost a bullying feel to it. Especially the post saying we can just penalize you for these posts.
KingBroly
CAGiversary!
Let me go over these...
Posted in Wrong Forum - 0 points - 7 Days
- I don't see the point of this one
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
What's the size limit again?
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
What if a person's internet glitches up and posts it twice by accident? You blame people for their internet screwing up? It happens to all of us.
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 2 months
Facilitating Game Piracy - 1 point - 1 Month
- I don't this one should expire. It's an illegal act. Talking about it just makes more people want to do it.
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
- Can this be on a post by post basis? AKA spamming 2 times = 2 points, spamming 3 times = 4 points (Because spamming is equal to more than one time)?
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
- I think this should be a case by case basis up to 3 months. Plus you don't know if everything is personal or not until someone backfires.
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
- I'm calling in every CAGcast on this one.
Posted in Wrong Forum - 0 points - 7 Days
- I don't see the point of this one
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
What's the size limit again?
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
What if a person's internet glitches up and posts it twice by accident? You blame people for their internet screwing up? It happens to all of us.
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 2 months
Facilitating Game Piracy - 1 point - 1 Month
- I don't this one should expire. It's an illegal act. Talking about it just makes more people want to do it.
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
- Can this be on a post by post basis? AKA spamming 2 times = 2 points, spamming 3 times = 4 points (Because spamming is equal to more than one time)?
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
- I think this should be a case by case basis up to 3 months. Plus you don't know if everything is personal or not until someone backfires.
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
- I'm calling in every CAGcast on this one.
djkunai
Banned
Posted in Wrong Forum - 0 points - 7 Days
-This should only apply to new threads.
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
-This should be automatic in the control panel.
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
-I don't get how mentioning a single game counts as "multiple tradelists".
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 6 months.
Facilitating Game Piracy - 1 point - 1 Month
-This should result in immediate silencing.
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
-I promote myself all the time, what's wrong with that? The spam part makes sense.
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
-Very vague...
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
-Inappropriate or "CAG-stamped Obscene"?
-This should only apply to new threads.
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
-This should be automatic in the control panel.
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
-I don't get how mentioning a single game counts as "multiple tradelists".
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 6 months.
Facilitating Game Piracy - 1 point - 1 Month
-This should result in immediate silencing.
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
-I promote myself all the time, what's wrong with that? The spam part makes sense.
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
-Very vague...
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
-Inappropriate or "CAG-stamped Obscene"?
[quote name='jlarlee']
Also mods telling someone that they just got a warning and should drop the issue is the kind of behavior that is ruffling feathers right now. It could be done in a pm or something but when done in public like that it had almost a bullying feel to it. Especially the post saying we can just penalize you for these posts.[/QUOTE]
I don't think any mod (or me) meant that we can (or should) penalize for "these posts" (if by that you mean the posts in this thread). No one has said anything in here that we would hand out any infractions, or even warnings, for.
As for the other part - I assume you are referring to my post. I only put that in here publicly because I was trying to emphasize the point to others that djkunai did not get any infraction points - it was just a warning. It might seem based on all the posts he mentioned that he was cited multiple times (by power-hungry mods) when that is not the case. That is all it was meant to be for - and I did PM him privately with a bit more info. I was trying to help him out but everyone seems to be on edge over this and thinking up the worst possible connotation for every post or action by the us here so it's a no win situation I suppose. djkunai knows me well enough and I thought maybe I could defuse the situation with that post as it was starting to escalate. He seems to have understood what I meant in any case even if others did not.
I'll say this one more time and then I'm not going to post in this thread any more because we keep going 'round in circles. In the past, people would do various things (trolling/spam/personal insults/whatever) and either get PM's from mods telling them to cool it, or temporary/permanent bans depending on the severity of the violation modulated by how often they have done such things in the past. It has always been somewhat arbitrary as there has been very little record of repeat offenders/troublemakers except what the mod who takes action remembers seeing from a particular user in the past. This system provides a way of keeping track of these things so that any punishment is handed out more fairly and with more accountability. NOTHING is changing from the way things went on before except now some users who were often surprised at being banned before should now have enough warning to either change their ways or make their case before being banned.
The issue surrounding djkunai (posting trade offers in the Deals forum) is a slightly different matter than the general implementation of this new system. We have nearly always enforced the "no trade talk" rule within the major clearance threads (Target, Kmart, etc) but not usually on smaller deal threads. I would like it to stay that way but I can see enforcing it across the board to be more consistent. Those major ongoing deal threads have links to their corresponding trade threads and thus, in the case of the Target one for sure, djkunai was wrong to post his offer there. His post in the Costco thread (which was simply deleted without use of the infraction system) was more understandable as that thread was new and there was no corresponding trade thread set up for it and linked in the OP. I didn't have a problem with it. HOWEVER, it is not up to me. I've made my case to the others about how to handle these deals threads so we'll see how it goes from there.
Also mods telling someone that they just got a warning and should drop the issue is the kind of behavior that is ruffling feathers right now. It could be done in a pm or something but when done in public like that it had almost a bullying feel to it. Especially the post saying we can just penalize you for these posts.[/QUOTE]
I don't think any mod (or me) meant that we can (or should) penalize for "these posts" (if by that you mean the posts in this thread). No one has said anything in here that we would hand out any infractions, or even warnings, for.
As for the other part - I assume you are referring to my post. I only put that in here publicly because I was trying to emphasize the point to others that djkunai did not get any infraction points - it was just a warning. It might seem based on all the posts he mentioned that he was cited multiple times (by power-hungry mods) when that is not the case. That is all it was meant to be for - and I did PM him privately with a bit more info. I was trying to help him out but everyone seems to be on edge over this and thinking up the worst possible connotation for every post or action by the us here so it's a no win situation I suppose. djkunai knows me well enough and I thought maybe I could defuse the situation with that post as it was starting to escalate. He seems to have understood what I meant in any case even if others did not.
I'll say this one more time and then I'm not going to post in this thread any more because we keep going 'round in circles. In the past, people would do various things (trolling/spam/personal insults/whatever) and either get PM's from mods telling them to cool it, or temporary/permanent bans depending on the severity of the violation modulated by how often they have done such things in the past. It has always been somewhat arbitrary as there has been very little record of repeat offenders/troublemakers except what the mod who takes action remembers seeing from a particular user in the past. This system provides a way of keeping track of these things so that any punishment is handed out more fairly and with more accountability. NOTHING is changing from the way things went on before except now some users who were often surprised at being banned before should now have enough warning to either change their ways or make their case before being banned.
The issue surrounding djkunai (posting trade offers in the Deals forum) is a slightly different matter than the general implementation of this new system. We have nearly always enforced the "no trade talk" rule within the major clearance threads (Target, Kmart, etc) but not usually on smaller deal threads. I would like it to stay that way but I can see enforcing it across the board to be more consistent. Those major ongoing deal threads have links to their corresponding trade threads and thus, in the case of the Target one for sure, djkunai was wrong to post his offer there. His post in the Costco thread (which was simply deleted without use of the infraction system) was more understandable as that thread was new and there was no corresponding trade thread set up for it and linked in the OP. I didn't have a problem with it. HOWEVER, it is not up to me. I've made my case to the others about how to handle these deals threads so we'll see how it goes from there.
Yeah, I said I was done, but let me give my take on these...
[quote name='KingBroly']Let me go over these...
Posted in Wrong Forum - 0 points - 7 Days
- I don't see the point of this one[/quote]
Simply a warning. If someone accumulates a ton of these because they don't pay attention/don't care then it may be handled differently.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
What's the size limit again?[/quote]
It is in the FAQ (at the top) - 200 pixels high is the limit. The only infraction I've given out so far was for someone who had a large sig (which was also offensive as the post was reported). I still gave it as a warning, though, and thus no points were assigned. Cheapy then removed the sig.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
What if a person's internet glitches up and posts it twice by accident? You blame people for their internet screwing up? It happens to all of us.[/quote]
C'mon - we're reasonable. Obviously if someone double-posts the same info it won't be a violation. This is for people who maintain separate independent trade lists in order to garner more attention for themselves. Pookymeister could fill you in better than me on how common that is and how it has been handled previously as he has cleaned up much of this since he joined.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 2 months[/quote]
Well, this one is sort of vague - a trolling/disruptive post to one person may be humorous to the next. So the punishment shouldn't be too severe for one infraction - it is the cumulative effect that helps reveal the true trolls of the forum.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
- Can this be on a post by post basis? AKA spamming 2 times = 2 points, spamming 3 times = 4 points (Because spamming is equal to more than one time)?[/quote]
This one probably won't be used too often. Most spammers on the site get insta-banned because they register JUST to post completely unrelated "deals". I deal with 1 of these late at night every other day or so (and the mods even more). They disappear before most people even see them. Someone would have to give me an example of a regular member doing something that would merit a violation like this - I'm sure it doesn't happen often.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
- I think this should be a case by case basis up to 3 months. Plus you don't know if everything is personal or not until someone backfires.[/quote]
This seems really just like a more severe version of the "trolling/disruptive" infraction so probably most will be put in that category unless they are particularly heinous.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
- I'm calling in every CAGcast on this one.[/QUOTE]
Well, the sig I mentioned earlier could have fallen under this category if I wanted to be a hard-ass about it. But instead I issued a warning under the "sig too big" category. I know I will be very conservative in handing these out, especially with points attached to them (as opposed to warnings). I think the mods will be the same way.
[quote name='KingBroly']Let me go over these...
Posted in Wrong Forum - 0 points - 7 Days
- I don't see the point of this one[/quote]
Simply a warning. If someone accumulates a ton of these because they don't pay attention/don't care then it may be handled differently.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Signature Too Large - 1 point - 14 Days
What's the size limit again?[/quote]
It is in the FAQ (at the top) - 200 pixels high is the limit. The only infraction I've given out so far was for someone who had a large sig (which was also offensive as the post was reported). I still gave it as a warning, though, and thus no points were assigned. Cheapy then removed the sig.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Multiple Trade Lists - 1 point - 1 Month
What if a person's internet glitches up and posts it twice by accident? You blame people for their internet screwing up? It happens to all of us.[/quote]
C'mon - we're reasonable. Obviously if someone double-posts the same info it won't be a violation. This is for people who maintain separate independent trade lists in order to garner more attention for themselves. Pookymeister could fill you in better than me on how common that is and how it has been handled previously as he has cleaned up much of this since he joined.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Trolling / Disruptive Posts - 1 point - 1 Month
- I think this point should last 2 months[/quote]
Well, this one is sort of vague - a trolling/disruptive post to one person may be humorous to the next. So the punishment shouldn't be too severe for one infraction - it is the cumulative effect that helps reveal the true trolls of the forum.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Spamming / Self-Promotion - 2 points - 1 Month
- Can this be on a post by post basis? AKA spamming 2 times = 2 points, spamming 3 times = 4 points (Because spamming is equal to more than one time)?[/quote]
This one probably won't be used too often. Most spammers on the site get insta-banned because they register JUST to post completely unrelated "deals". I deal with 1 of these late at night every other day or so (and the mods even more). They disappear before most people even see them
. Someone would have to give me an example of a regular member doing something that would merit a violation like this - I'm sure it doesn't happen often.[quote name='KingBroly']
Personal Attacks / Harassment - 2 points - 1 Month
- I think this should be a case by case basis up to 3 months. Plus you don't know if everything is personal or not until someone backfires.[/quote]
This seems really just like a more severe version of the "trolling/disruptive" infraction so probably most will be put in that category unless they are particularly heinous.
[quote name='KingBroly']
Inappropriate Content - 2 points - 1 Month
- I'm calling in every CAGcast on this one.
[/QUOTE]Well, the sig I mentioned earlier could have fallen under this category if I wanted to be a hard-ass about it. But instead I issued a warning under the "sig too big" category. I know I will be very conservative in handing these out, especially with points attached to them (as opposed to warnings). I think the mods will be the same way.
crystalklear64
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[quote name='daphatty']The only reason I didn't say anything is because Linkin had already done so. You would have received the same points from me.
I am well aware of the "ways of the OTT" but lets be clear, you are not immune in the OTT. We just let more shit slide.[/QUOTE]
Apparently not, since there are nigh constant personal attacks in the OTT, many far worse than a MS paint drawing. I don't see points being given out left and right when that stuff happens.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyD
ing himself in the ass!
The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.
I am well aware of the "ways of the OTT" but lets be clear, you are not immune in the OTT. We just let more shit slide.[/QUOTE]
Apparently not, since there are nigh constant personal attacks in the OTT, many far worse than a MS paint drawing. I don't see points being given out left and right when that stuff happens.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyD
ing himself in the ass!The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.
Here's the problem with the infraction system. So far, it's all the wrong people getting them.
I understand the need for an infraction system, and I agree with the transparancy of the infraction system. But it is being used for the wrong posts (from what I've seen in here). As we've seen in this thread, people have highlighted numerous threads which are really on questionable ground in terms of their legality, ethics, or whatever. Yet posting a snarky comment in an Off Topic thread, or worse, some of the "infractions'' in the deal forum, is "going too far." This system, from the point system that I'm looking at, was put into place to take care of the serious issues on this forum, like talk about stealing games and modding systems. Instead, we've got a "THIS ARE A SERIOUS FORUM" mentality going.
A few of the mods have commented and said "well you got a 0 point infraction, that's only a warning." Warning? What? I wake up one morning and I've got an INFRACTION! listed on my profile. No real explanation. If, before the infraction system, a Mod had PMed me about my post and warned me about it, I would have probably replied "WTF?" It's a ridiculous warning/infraction/warning infraction/whatever it is, and I am now vehemently opposed to the system after receiving it.
There's a real effort here, as far as I'm concerned, to take some cynicism out of the forums. Maybe that builds a "better community" as far as the moderators are concerned. One where users reply to stupid questions and ridiculous topics with huge smiley faces and say please and thank you. That's cute, it really is, but it's not the forum that I've been around here for, nor is it one I will stick around for.
I understand the need for an infraction system, and I agree with the transparancy of the infraction system. But it is being used for the wrong posts (from what I've seen in here). As we've seen in this thread, people have highlighted numerous threads which are really on questionable ground in terms of their legality, ethics, or whatever. Yet posting a snarky comment in an Off Topic thread, or worse, some of the "infractions'' in the deal forum, is "going too far." This system, from the point system that I'm looking at, was put into place to take care of the serious issues on this forum, like talk about stealing games and modding systems. Instead, we've got a "THIS ARE A SERIOUS FORUM" mentality going.
A few of the mods have commented and said "well you got a 0 point infraction, that's only a warning." Warning? What? I wake up one morning and I've got an INFRACTION! listed on my profile. No real explanation. If, before the infraction system, a Mod had PMed me about my post and warned me about it, I would have probably replied "WTF?" It's a ridiculous warning/infraction/warning infraction/whatever it is, and I am now vehemently opposed to the system after receiving it.
There's a real effort here, as far as I'm concerned, to take some cynicism out of the forums. Maybe that builds a "better community" as far as the moderators are concerned. One where users reply to stupid questions and ridiculous topics with huge smiley faces and say please and thank you. That's cute, it really is, but it's not the forum that I've been around here for, nor is it one I will stick around for.
Chitown021
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[quote name='VipFREAK']Is ing swearing included? lol[/quote]
It could be. It just takes one person to whine about a post because they're "offended", report it to a mod, and BAM you've got points...
I got a point for trolling/disruptive posts basically because of a member of this site that just doesn't like me. Nobody else had a problem with my post and the only reason he did was because he knew he could take advantage of this new system and slap me with an infraction. Several others in the thread made essentially the same comment as I did. Did he report all of them, I doubt it.
I did not get a PM with my point (I know this has already been explained and fixed by CheapyD) so I PMed the mod to find out what was up. I was just told that I needed to find a nicer way of expressing my opinion. The person that reported me also sent me a couple of PMs pretty much as a "NAH NAH NA NAH NAH, I GOT YOU". I reported those and I hope (but doubt) they took the appropriate action on him.
It's already been said that the mods will deal the points based on the intent of the post or infraction. That's extremely subjective. Unless they have the ability to read minds there's no way to determine intention.
ing swearing included? lol[/quote]It could be. It just takes one person to whine about a post because they're "offended", report it to a mod, and BAM you've got points...
I got a point for trolling/disruptive posts basically because of a member of this site that just doesn't like me. Nobody else had a problem with my post and the only reason he did was because he knew he could take advantage of this new system and slap me with an infraction. Several others in the thread made essentially the same comment as I did. Did he report all of them, I doubt it.
I did not get a PM with my point (I know this has already been explained and fixed by CheapyD) so I PMed the mod to find out what was up. I was just told that I needed to find a nicer way of expressing my opinion. The person that reported me also sent me a couple of PMs pretty much as a "NAH NAH NA NAH NAH, I GOT YOU". I reported those and I hope (but doubt) they took the appropriate action on him.
It's already been said that the mods will deal the points based on the intent of the post or infraction. That's extremely subjective. Unless they have the ability to read minds there's no way to determine intention.
[quote name='crystalklear64']Apparently not, since there are nigh constant personal attacks in the OTT, many far worse than a MS paint drawing. I don't see points being given out left and right when that stuff happens.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyDing himself in the ass!
The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.[/QUOTE]
You were given a direct warning to cut it off in that thread and when you didn't you got hit with the infraction. I don't see a problem.
[quote name='Chitown021']
I did not get a PM with my point (I know this has already been explained and fixed by CheapyD) so I PMed the mod to find out what was up. I was just told that I needed to find a nicer way of expressing my opinion. The person that reported me also sent me a couple of PMs pretty much as a "NAH NAH NA NAH NAH, I GOT YOU". I reported those and I hope (but doubt) they took the appropriate action on him.[/QUOTE]
Forward those to me if you don't mind.
I will say that in general if a CAG complains about a post then yes it is more likely to be hit with an infraction because (a) that brings it to the attiontion of the mods and (b) it tells the mod that at least one CAG has a problem with it.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyD
ing himself in the ass!The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.[/QUOTE]
You were given a direct warning to cut it off in that thread and when you didn't you got hit with the infraction. I don't see a problem.
[quote name='Chitown021']
I did not get a PM with my point (I know this has already been explained and fixed by CheapyD) so I PMed the mod to find out what was up. I was just told that I needed to find a nicer way of expressing my opinion. The person that reported me also sent me a couple of PMs pretty much as a "NAH NAH NA NAH NAH, I GOT YOU". I reported those and I hope (but doubt) they took the appropriate action on him.[/QUOTE]
Forward those to me if you don't mind.
I will say that in general if a CAG complains about a post then yes it is more likely to be hit with an infraction because (a) that brings it to the attiontion of the mods and (b) it tells the mod that at least one CAG has a problem with it.
crystalklear64
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[quote name='wubb']You were given a direct warning to cut it off in that thread and when you didn't you got hit with the infraction. I don't see a problem.
[/QUOTE]
So why does my infraction say "harassment" instead of, "Didn't listen to LikinPrime"?
I don't see that one on the list anywhere, but at least it'd make more sense.
Besides, why would I stop doing something that violates no rules? They may forget it themselves sometimes, but they are simply forum users that are there to enforce the rules, not to make them up.
[/QUOTE]
So why does my infraction say "harassment" instead of, "Didn't listen to LikinPrime"?
I don't see that one on the list anywhere, but at least it'd make more sense.
Besides, why would I stop doing something that violates no rules? They may forget it themselves sometimes, but they are simply forum users that are there to enforce the rules, not to make them up.
LinkinPrime
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[quote name='crystalklear64']So.. wtf is up with my points then?
I posted all my stuff in the OTT and have never gotten disciplined in the past. In fact, I've made several of the same type of MS paint cartoons and never have I even been asked to stop by anyone, including those who the cartoons depict.
This still stands true, as daphatty said nothing about the cartoons, presumably because its the OTT and its pretty much a giant place to hang out and rag on each other, it was LinkinPrime who ended up "coming to the rescue." I can only assume this was because he isn't aware of the way of the OTT.[/quote]
I warned you to stop, and you wanted to test my patience. The OTT is not a free for all. It can be modded and will be modded when necessary.
[quote name='crystalklear64']Apparently not, since there are nigh constant personal attacks in the OTT, many far worse than a MS paint drawing. I don't see points being given out left and right when that stuff happens.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyDing himself in the ass!
The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.[/quote]
Really nothing was harrasment...depicting DaPhatty in homesexual acts and then "censoring" them eventhough everyone knew what it was...you even said what it was before you posted the image. I warned and then you went ahead and posted another. Don't play the inocent one here...you obviously did them to try to piss him off, that's a personal attack and harrasment.
The Cheapy comic is an entirely different situation...WSB did that with CheapyD's concent...had DaPhatty given you the OK...we wouldn't be having this talk.
Without this infraction system, I would have most likely silenced you for a couple days or temp banned you. Be greatful that its in place and its working fine. Just stop trying to piss off people on purpose and you'll be fine.
[quote name='crystalklear64']So why does my infraction say "harassment" instead of, "Didn't listen to LikinPrime"?
I don't see that one on the list anywhere, but at least it'd make more sense.
Besides, why would I stop doing something that violates no rules? They may forget it themselves sometimes, but they are simply forum users that are there to enforce the rules, not to make them up.[/quote]
See above.
I posted all my stuff in the OTT and have never gotten disciplined in the past. In fact, I've made several of the same type of MS paint cartoons and never have I even been asked to stop by anyone, including those who the cartoons depict.
This still stands true, as daphatty said nothing about the cartoons, presumably because its the OTT and its pretty much a giant place to hang out and rag on each other, it was LinkinPrime who ended up "coming to the rescue." I can only assume this was because he isn't aware of the way of the OTT.[/quote]
I warned you to stop, and you wanted to test my patience. The OTT is not a free for all. It can be modded and will be modded when necessary.
[quote name='crystalklear64']Apparently not, since there are nigh constant personal attacks in the OTT, many far worse than a MS paint drawing. I don't see points being given out left and right when that stuff happens.
What about those pictures was harassment in any way? Nothing.
For christ's sake, we have a damn comic about CheapyD
ing himself in the ass!The best part is, I get my points after removing the censor to reveal something completely innocent.
You know, the more I think about how ridiculous this is, I can only come to the conclusion that you wanted to send a message, and I happened to give you an opportunity. No one would have given that stuff a second thought prior to this infraction system.[/quote]
Really nothing was harrasment...depicting DaPhatty in homesexual acts and then "censoring" them eventhough everyone knew what it was...you even said what it was before you posted the image. I warned and then you went ahead and posted another. Don't play the inocent one here...you obviously did them to try to piss him off, that's a personal attack and harrasment.
The Cheapy comic is an entirely different situation...WSB did that with CheapyD's concent...had DaPhatty given you the OK...we wouldn't be having this talk.
Without this infraction system, I would have most likely silenced you for a couple days or temp banned you. Be greatful that its in place and its working fine. Just stop trying to piss off people on purpose and you'll be fine.
[quote name='crystalklear64']So why does my infraction say "harassment" instead of, "Didn't listen to LikinPrime"?
I don't see that one on the list anywhere, but at least it'd make more sense.
Besides, why would I stop doing something that violates no rules? They may forget it themselves sometimes, but they are simply forum users that are there to enforce the rules, not to make them up.[/quote]
See above.
crystalklear64
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[quote name='LinkinPrime']I warned you to stop, and you wanted to test my patience. The OTT is not a free for all. It can be modded and will be modded when necessary.[/QUOTE]
So... this basically just proved both my points.
1. You did it to send a message to the OTT.
2. You did it not because I did anything wrong, but because you told me to stop doing something (which was against no rule).
So... this basically just proved both my points.
1. You did it to send a message to the OTT.
2. You did it not because I did anything wrong, but because you told me to stop doing something (which was against no rule).
LinkinPrime
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[quote name='crystalklear64']So... this basically just proved both my points.
1. You did it to send a message to the OTT.
2. You did it not because I did anything wrong, but because you told me to stop doing something (which was against no rule).[/quote]
Um...OK if your mind works that way I guess.
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
2. You did do something wrong...you were depicting Daphatty in homosexual acts for the "fun of it" and decided to sensor it enough so that we all clearly know what's going on but according to you because its "censored" it won't be offensive
. As I've mentioned, I don't know 3x's now...it was a personal attack and you were harassing Daphatty.
1. You did it to send a message to the OTT.
2. You did it not because I did anything wrong, but because you told me to stop doing something (which was against no rule).[/quote]
Um...OK if your mind works that way I guess.
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
2. You did do something wrong...you were depicting Daphatty in homosexual acts for the "fun of it" and decided to sensor it enough so that we all clearly know what's going on but according to you because its "censored" it won't be offensive
. As I've mentioned, I don't know 3x's now...it was a personal attack and you were harassing Daphatty.[quote name='daphatty']It is clear that you refuse to see things any other way than your own.[/quote]
How can you say that when you're guilty of the same?
[quote name='daphatty']A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.[/quote]
But if he does it again, will he get punished beyond a warning?
Yes.
And that's the problem. It doesn't matter if it's a warning or not, it's the fact that action was taken against him for such a thing. You seem to be missing this point.
How can you say that when you're guilty of the same?
[quote name='daphatty']A warning is not, never has been, and never will be a punishment. It is a call to attention. It is simply a means of communicating with a user that what they have done is wrong. Anyone who feels that a warning is a punishment is truly misguided. A warning serves as YOUR chance to avoid receiving an infraction.[/quote]
But if he does it again, will he get punished beyond a warning?
Yes.
And that's the problem. It doesn't matter if it's a warning or not, it's the fact that action was taken against him for such a thing. You seem to be missing this point.
tiredfornow
Banned
[quote name='LinkinPrime']
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
[/quote]
Yeah, I got banned for calling linkpwns a fat 12-yr old. I didn't know LinkinPrime was 400 pounds at the time, so by the time I realized it hit too close to home, I had a three day vacation thanks to some Mike Shinoda fan. :[
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
[/quote]
Yeah, I got banned for calling linkpwns a fat 12-yr old. I didn't know LinkinPrime was 400 pounds at the time, so by the time I realized it hit too close to home, I had a three day vacation thanks to some Mike Shinoda fan. :[
LinkinPrime
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[quote name='tiredfornow']Yeah, I got banned for calling linkpwns a fat 12-yr old. I didn't know LinkinPrime was 400 pounds at the time, so by the time I realized it hit too close to home, I had a three day vacation thanks to some Mike Shinoda fan. :[[/quote]
I need to stop eating them steak burritos...
I need to stop eating them steak burritos...
CocheseUGA
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[quote name='Rocko']How can you say that when you're guilty of the same?
But if he does it again, will he get punished beyond a warning?
Yes.
And that's the problem. It doesn't matter if it's a warning or not, it's the fact that action was taken against him for such a thing. You seem to be missing this point.[/QUOTE]
I think the problem is, and what a few people don't seem to realize, is the more restrictive you get, the more friction you will receive. And when you see something like: 'Just drop it' or 'We'll agree to disagree', it just feeds into the friction.
If they actually want this to work, they'll listen to our complaints about it and ACTUALLY take them into consideration.
But if he does it again, will he get punished beyond a warning?
Yes.
And that's the problem. It doesn't matter if it's a warning or not, it's the fact that action was taken against him for such a thing. You seem to be missing this point.[/QUOTE]
I think the problem is, and what a few people don't seem to realize, is the more restrictive you get, the more friction you will receive. And when you see something like: 'Just drop it' or 'We'll agree to disagree', it just feeds into the friction.
If they actually want this to work, they'll listen to our complaints about it and ACTUALLY take them into consideration.
djkunai
Banned
Class is slow today...
(To the beat of "No Handlebars" by The Flobots).
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
I'm the one in charge
I'm the one in charge
Look at me
Look at me
Hands in the air and it feels good to be
a Mod
Yes I'm a moderator
These are my rules so let us see
I can show you where to post a post
I can show you where to click to edit
I can trace an IP spammer
I can find out exactly who said it
I play Smash so hey let's Brawl it
I run the show so I can call it
These deals our ours and ours alone
So no sharing with Fat Wallet
Me and and my friend made a portal joke
Me and my friend know the cake's a lie
In the end you don't die
Let's celebrate and eat some pie
I do anything that I feel is right
That I feel is right
That I feel is right
And I give people warnings late at night
Warnings late at night
Warnings late at night
Look at me
Look at me
Just PMed to say it's good to be
a Mod
on a forum
Keeping a lid on this insanity
I make a living selling ad space
I also raise funds for charity
I keep the other members under my direction
When I ban whoever disagrees with me
I can make a thread a sticky
I can kill a thread I'm picky about
What goes up on this website
It's serious business and it's very tricky
Members, Mods and forum guides
We know how it works so don't try to hide
The fact
We're no where near delirium
Balancing economic equilibrium
I can change this world with a single click
With a single click
With a single click
I can be a friend or I can be a dick
I can be a dick
I can be a dick
Look at me
Look at me
Modding and I can't stop
And it feels so good to be
A Mod and on top
My reach
Is widespread
My power
defined
Your argument's
Invalid
Your freedoms
Confined
I can tell you that your posts are abominations
Or that you've given us a revelation
That you've shaken this site down to its foundation
But we'll never have that conversation
I can make any member banned from here
Just because I don't like them
I can do anything with no permission
We the Mods have the members in submission
I can censor words like they mean nothing
Like they mean nothing
Like they mean nothing
And I can tell the others I'm the one who's right
I'm the one who's right
I'm the one who's right
And it doesn't matter even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
(To the beat of "No Handlebars" by The Flobots).
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
I'm the one in charge
I'm the one in charge
Look at me
Look at me
Hands in the air and it feels good to be
a Mod
Yes I'm a moderator
These are my rules so let us see
I can show you where to post a post
I can show you where to click to edit
I can trace an IP spammer
I can find out exactly who said it
I play Smash so hey let's Brawl it
I run the show so I can call it
These deals our ours and ours alone
So no sharing with Fat Wallet
Me and and my friend made a portal joke
Me and my friend know the cake's a lie
In the end you don't die
Let's celebrate and eat some pie
I do anything that I feel is right
That I feel is right
That I feel is right
And I give people warnings late at night
Warnings late at night
Warnings late at night
Look at me
Look at me
Just PMed to say it's good to be
a Mod
on a forum
Keeping a lid on this insanity
I make a living selling ad space
I also raise funds for charity
I keep the other members under my direction
When I ban whoever disagrees with me
I can make a thread a sticky
I can kill a thread I'm picky about
What goes up on this website
It's serious business and it's very tricky
Members, Mods and forum guides
We know how it works so don't try to hide
The fact
We're no where near delirium
Balancing economic equilibrium
I can change this world with a single click
With a single click
With a single click
I can be a friend or I can be a dick
I can be a dick
I can be a dick
Look at me
Look at me
Modding and I can't stop
And it feels so good to be
A Mod and on top
My reach
Is widespread
My power
defined
Your argument's
Invalid
Your freedoms
Confined
I can tell you that your posts are abominations
Or that you've given us a revelation
That you've shaken this site down to its foundation
But we'll never have that conversation
I can make any member banned from here
Just because I don't like them
I can do anything with no permission
We the Mods have the members in submission
I can censor words like they mean nothing
Like they mean nothing
Like they mean nothing
And I can tell the others I'm the one who's right
I'm the one who's right
I'm the one who's right
And it doesn't matter even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
Even what you think
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
I'm a moderator I'm the one in charge
The one in charge
The one in charge
Chitown021
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 17 (100%)
[quote name='wubb']
I will say that in general if a CAG complains about a post then yes it is more likely to be hit with an infraction because (a) that brings it to the attiontion of the mods and (b) it tells the mod that at least one CAG has a problem with it.[/quote]
So then by the same token if I wanted to be a super sensitive asshole I could find several posts in every thread that "offend me". I could then go on a reporting rampage and by your logic since it bothered at least one CAG that equals infactions = pts.
(Just making a point. I'm not that type of person and would not do it but I know there are CAGs out there that probably would).
I will say that in general if a CAG complains about a post then yes it is more likely to be hit with an infraction because (a) that brings it to the attiontion of the mods and (b) it tells the mod that at least one CAG has a problem with it.[/quote]
So then by the same token if I wanted to be a super sensitive asshole I could find several posts in every thread that "offend me". I could then go on a reporting rampage and by your logic since it bothered at least one CAG that equals infactions = pts.
(Just making a point. I'm not that type of person and would not do it but I know there are CAGs out there that probably would).
Chitown021
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 17 (100%)
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I think the problem is, and what a few people don't seem to realize, is the more restrictive you get, the more friction you will receive. And when you see something like: 'Just drop it' or 'We'll agree to disagree', it just feeds into the friction.
If they actually want this to work, they'll listen to our complaints about it and ACTUALLY take them into consideration.[/quote]
I think you hit the nail on the head. When people are reporting problems and you get posts from the head man himself saying essentially "It's a new system, it's better than the old one, give it a few days and stop whining" that tends to rub people the wrong way. Yeah it's a new system and yes it's better but it's far from perfect. On a scale from 0 to 10 where zero is the old system (basically no system) and ten is the perfect system this is probably a 3.
Instead they could say "It's a new system, we understand your frustration, bear with us while the kinks are worked out, and we'll take the feedback into consideration".
If they actually want this to work, they'll listen to our complaints about it and ACTUALLY take them into consideration.[/quote]
I think you hit the nail on the head. When people are reporting problems and you get posts from the head man himself saying essentially "It's a new system, it's better than the old one, give it a few days and stop whining" that tends to rub people the wrong way. Yeah it's a new system and yes it's better but it's far from perfect. On a scale from 0 to 10 where zero is the old system (basically no system) and ten is the perfect system this is probably a 3.
Instead they could say "It's a new system, we understand your frustration, bear with us while the kinks are worked out, and we'll take the feedback into consideration".
What I don't get, in particular--the target clearance/"trade" postings is, why is "trading/request" the only thing being targeted?
Shouldn't someone get a warning for:
"oh folklore is sub-15 is this game good/worth it?"
(game discussion)
"Has anyone seen title X at X target?"
(deal request/ regional)
"I picked up X and y for xx.xx! at target tonite. I can't believe they had this on clearance, I never find the titles listed on this thread"
(shopping discussion/bragging)
etc.
All I am saying if someone can't find something listed on the Target thread or can find a ton its not off subject to request/supply someone with information. Is it about a clearance game and is about target? YES. Its not off subject.
I know people are going to say, "well the point of the thread is to list target finds." That is BS because I would be willing to bet 95% of the post on that thread is:
"I got this game"
"Yea I saw that price too"
"X title is clearance but still over MSRP"
"Is that game with xx.xx dollars fun."
"Man I can't find this"
and on and on.
This system would make sense if it was a website (if we were members than sent deals to mods and were posted on a page), but this is a "FORUM'. Its like a conversation its going to get a little off subject, people are going to mention and respond to things people say, and people are going to make jokes etc.
Shouldn't someone get a warning for:
"oh folklore is sub-15 is this game good/worth it?"
(game discussion)
"Has anyone seen title X at X target?"
(deal request/ regional)
"I picked up X and y for xx.xx! at target tonite. I can't believe they had this on clearance, I never find the titles listed on this thread"
(shopping discussion/bragging)
etc.
All I am saying if someone can't find something listed on the Target thread or can find a ton its not off subject to request/supply someone with information. Is it about a clearance game and is about target? YES. Its not off subject.
I know people are going to say, "well the point of the thread is to list target finds." That is BS because I would be willing to bet 95% of the post on that thread is:
"I got this game"
"Yea I saw that price too"
"X title is clearance but still over MSRP"
"Is that game with xx.xx dollars fun."
"Man I can't find this"
and on and on.
This system would make sense if it was a website (if we were members than sent deals to mods and were posted on a page), but this is a "FORUM'. Its like a conversation its going to get a little off subject, people are going to mention and respond to things people say, and people are going to make jokes etc.
[quote name='Chitown021']So then by the same token if I wanted to be a super sensitive asshole I could find several posts in every thread that "offend me". I could then go on a reporting rampage and by your logic since it bothered at least one CAG that equals infactions = pts.
(Just making a point. I'm not that type of person and would not do it but I know there are CAGs out there that probably would).[/QUOTE]
I don't think Wubb meant it that way. We gets lots of reported posts that are much ado about nothing and we don't do anything to the post itself or to the poster. Ie, we don't necessarily act on a reported post - as with everything we use our judgement. But the report may bring attention to something that we otherwise would have never read. So in that sense, yes, anything questionable is more likely to have action taken against it than if it wasn't reported. But if someone goes on a "report rampage" and starts reporting everything (especially if it is from a single user they are after) they are more likely to get in trouble themselves.
Sigh - as for the "just drop it" thing which no one will let go of, see Botticus's post above. He got it. The discussion of what is allowed in the Deals forum brings up valid points, and to be honest, I agree with some of what you guys are saying. But that is a different issue from the infraction system. Trade offers were often deleted in the past anyway and warnings posted in threads, etc. This is nothing new though it is certainly up for debate as to how it should be handled going forward.
(Just making a point. I'm not that type of person and would not do it but I know there are CAGs out there that probably would).[/QUOTE]
I don't think Wubb meant it that way. We gets lots of reported posts that are much ado about nothing and we don't do anything to the post itself or to the poster. Ie, we don't necessarily act on a reported post - as with everything we use our judgement. But the report may bring attention to something that we otherwise would have never read. So in that sense, yes, anything questionable is more likely to have action taken against it than if it wasn't reported. But if someone goes on a "report rampage" and starts reporting everything (especially if it is from a single user they are after) they are more likely to get in trouble themselves.
Sigh - as for the "just drop it" thing which no one will let go of, see Botticus's post above. He got it. The discussion of what is allowed in the Deals forum brings up valid points, and to be honest, I agree with some of what you guys are saying. But that is a different issue from the infraction system. Trade offers were often deleted in the past anyway and warnings posted in threads, etc. This is nothing new though it is certainly up for debate as to how it should be handled going forward.
[quote name='lordwow']Here's the problem with the infraction system. So far, it's all the wrong people getting them.
I understand the need for an infraction system, and I agree with the transparancy of the infraction system. But it is being used for the wrong posts (from what I've seen in here). As we've seen in this thread, people have highlighted numerous threads which are really on questionable ground in terms of their legality, ethics, or whatever. Yet posting a snarky comment in an Off Topic thread, or worse, some of the "infractions'' in the deal forum, is "going too far." This system, from the point system that I'm looking at, was put into place to take care of the serious issues on this forum, like talk about stealing games and modding systems. Instead, we've got a "THIS ARE A SERIOUS FORUM" mentality going.
A few of the mods have commented and said "well you got a 0 point infraction, that's only a warning." Warning? What? I wake up one morning and I've got an INFRACTION! listed on my profile. No real explanation. If, before the infraction system, a Mod had PMed me about my post and warned me about it, I would have probably replied "WTF?" It's a ridiculous warning/infraction/warning infraction/whatever it is, and I am now vehemently opposed to the system after receiving it.
There's a real effort here, as far as I'm concerned, to take some cynicism out of the forums. Maybe that builds a "better community" as far as the moderators are concerned. One where users reply to stupid questions and ridiculous topics with huge smiley faces and say please and thank you. That's cute, it really is, but it's not the forum that I've been around here for, nor is it one I will stick around for.[/QUOTE]
Spot on I would have thought a website with the word ass in it would be the last place to start acting like the world in the movie Demolition Man
I understand the need for an infraction system, and I agree with the transparancy of the infraction system. But it is being used for the wrong posts (from what I've seen in here). As we've seen in this thread, people have highlighted numerous threads which are really on questionable ground in terms of their legality, ethics, or whatever. Yet posting a snarky comment in an Off Topic thread, or worse, some of the "infractions'' in the deal forum, is "going too far." This system, from the point system that I'm looking at, was put into place to take care of the serious issues on this forum, like talk about stealing games and modding systems. Instead, we've got a "THIS ARE A SERIOUS FORUM" mentality going.
A few of the mods have commented and said "well you got a 0 point infraction, that's only a warning." Warning? What? I wake up one morning and I've got an INFRACTION! listed on my profile. No real explanation. If, before the infraction system, a Mod had PMed me about my post and warned me about it, I would have probably replied "WTF?" It's a ridiculous warning/infraction/warning infraction/whatever it is, and I am now vehemently opposed to the system after receiving it.
There's a real effort here, as far as I'm concerned, to take some cynicism out of the forums. Maybe that builds a "better community" as far as the moderators are concerned. One where users reply to stupid questions and ridiculous topics with huge smiley faces and say please and thank you. That's cute, it really is, but it's not the forum that I've been around here for, nor is it one I will stick around for.[/QUOTE]
Spot on I would have thought a website with the word ass in it would be the last place to start acting like the world in the movie Demolition Man
Chitown021
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 17 (100%)
I want to take a second to thank io and wubb for calmly and rationally answering all of the questions, gripes, etc... I think others at the beginning of the thread handled things very poorly basically saying "Wah, just deal with it!" but these two have done a nice job.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...
Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...
crystalklear64
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Um...OK if your mind works that way I guess.
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
2. You did do something wrong...you were depicting Daphatty in homosexual acts for the "fun of it" and decided to sensor it enough so that we all clearly know what's going on but according to you because its "censored" it won't be offensive. As I've mentioned, I don't know 3x's now...it was a personal attack and you were harassing Daphatty.[/QUOTE]
Homosexual acts? Please tell me what is homosexual about eating bratwurst and blueberries?
Or serving chocolate pudding to Martians?
The was no personal attack made and you are wrong your assertions. You have made an issue where one did not exist.
Now, a man sticking his penis in a man's ass, ie. a certain CAG comic, THAT is homosexual if you want to go after that, but that is no more of a personal attack then my drawings.
1. I did it to send a message to you, ask TFN he's been temp-banned before for posting in the OTT.
2. You did do something wrong...you were depicting Daphatty in homosexual acts for the "fun of it" and decided to sensor it enough so that we all clearly know what's going on but according to you because its "censored" it won't be offensive
. As I've mentioned, I don't know 3x's now...it was a personal attack and you were harassing Daphatty.[/QUOTE]Homosexual acts? Please tell me what is homosexual about eating bratwurst and blueberries?
Or serving chocolate pudding to Martians?
The was no personal attack made and you are wrong your assertions. You have made an issue where one did not exist.
Now, a man sticking his penis in a man's ass, ie. a certain CAG comic, THAT is homosexual if you want to go after that, but that is no more of a personal attack then my drawings.
WhipSmartBanky
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 8 (100%)
[quote name='crystalklear64']Homosexual acts? Please tell me what is homosexual about eating bratwurst and blueberries?
Or serving chocolate pudding to Martians?
The was no personal attack made and you are wrong your assertions. You have made an issue where one did not exist.
Now, a man sticking his penis in a man's ass, ie. a certain CAG comic, THAT is homosexual if you want to go after that, but that is no more of a personal attack then my drawings.[/QUOTE]
It's not possible for somebody to attack or harass themselves. CheapyD wrote the script, and I just drew it. It's not the same thing, and you know it. Stop trying to use the CAGcomic, and me by proxy, to wrongly support your argument.
Or serving chocolate pudding to Martians?
The was no personal attack made and you are wrong your assertions. You have made an issue where one did not exist.
Now, a man sticking his penis in a man's ass, ie. a certain CAG comic, THAT is homosexual if you want to go after that, but that is no more of a personal attack then my drawings.[/QUOTE]
It's not possible for somebody to attack or harass themselves. CheapyD wrote the script, and I just drew it. It's not the same thing, and you know it. Stop trying to use the CAGcomic, and me by proxy, to wrongly support your argument.
crystalklear64
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 7 (100%)
[quote name='WhipSmartBanky']It's not possible for somebody to attack or harass themselves. CheapyD wrote the script, and I just drew it. It's not the same thing, and you know it. Stop trying to use the CAGcomic, and me by proxy, to wrongly support your argument.[/QUOTE]
I stand by my statement that the CAGcomic was no more a personal attack than my drawing.
I stand by my statement that the CAGcomic was no more a personal attack than my drawing.
- Status
bread's done