CAGcast #104: Fair & Balanced
- Thread starter CheapyD
- Start date
itachiitachi
CAGiversary!
That had to be one of the worst cag casts. That rant about not being a fanboy, picking that rap that makes a jpop song sound like a master piece, rant about a 1% tax, ect...
Not sure how you can say that Wii can't really be a system for a gamer (unless they are a Nintendo fanboy) because it lacks a quantity of quality games, but the ps3 is fine. If you look at the exclusive quality game list the Wii is a better spot then ps3.
I did like wombat’s comic book section/commentary even though I don't like comic books.
trip1ex is right
Not sure how you can say that Wii can't really be a system for a gamer (unless they are a Nintendo fanboy) because it lacks a quantity of quality games, but the ps3 is fine. If you look at the exclusive quality game list the Wii is a better spot then ps3.
I did like wombat’s comic book section/commentary even though I don't like comic books.
trip1ex is right
PyroGamer
Banned
Hey Wombat, you wanted to know which system has the most crappy games?
Well it's the Wii by far. According to Gamerankings, 33% of the Wii's games score below 6/10. 13.9% of the Wii's games score below a 5.
The 360 is in second place, with 8.16% under 5, and 23% under a 6.
And the PS3 has the lowest low score ratio, with 5.76% of games under a 5, and 14% under a 6.
However, in reality, the Wii's ratio should be MUCH MUCH higher. This is because many of the shovelware games for the Wii are so bad, nobody bothers to review them. Gamerankings only lists games that people have bothered to review.
Looking at any new release list, you will see that the majority of games coming out for the Wii are shovelware, and will never be reviewed. Because of this, it would not suprise me if 70% or more of the Wii's games are either below a 6, or were never even reviewed.
Is this a problem? Certainly not. The PS2's shovelware ratio was enormous, and it only helped to propel Sony to massive success last generation.
And obviously, this ratio has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of a console. The only important thing is NUMBER of good games, not ratio of good games to bad games, or bad games to good games. And that number is: 81 8.0 games and higher for 360, 36 for the PS3, and only 14 for the Wii.
Well it's the Wii by far. According to Gamerankings, 33% of the Wii's games score below 6/10. 13.9% of the Wii's games score below a 5.
The 360 is in second place, with 8.16% under 5, and 23% under a 6.
And the PS3 has the lowest low score ratio, with 5.76% of games under a 5, and 14% under a 6.
However, in reality, the Wii's ratio should be MUCH MUCH higher. This is because many of the shovelware games for the Wii are so bad, nobody bothers to review them. Gamerankings only lists games that people have bothered to review.
Looking at any new release list, you will see that the majority of games coming out for the Wii are shovelware, and will never be reviewed. Because of this, it would not suprise me if 70% or more of the Wii's games are either below a 6, or were never even reviewed.
Is this a problem? Certainly not. The PS2's shovelware ratio was enormous, and it only helped to propel Sony to massive success last generation.
And obviously, this ratio has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of a console. The only important thing is NUMBER of good games, not ratio of good games to bad games, or bad games to good games. And that number is: 81 8.0 games and higher for 360, 36 for the PS3, and only 14 for the Wii.
AshesofWake
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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ahhahahahahhhah the phone call at the end of this cagcast was freaking hilarious for some reason!
Prattvegas
CAG Veteran
Awesome, good stuff to listen to at work monday. Speaking of Paradise, I got extremely bored last night and did a 68.9 mile drift (121,000+ yards). Heres a video from my cell phone of me hitting 100,000 yards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-eNaSTWuo
usickenme
CAGiversary!
[quote name='PyroGamer'] The only important thing is NUMBER of good games, not ratio of good games to bad games, or bad games to good games. And that number is: 81 8.0 games and higher for 360, 36 for the PS3, and only 14 for the Wii.[/QUOTE]
Eh it is still a subjective matter. After all those all those 8's a based on opinion (a collective opinion but an opinion none the less). Which is the flaw in Cheapy's arguement. I mean, I don't play games based on if other people like them. I play them if I do.
The only important thing is the NUMBER of games you like.
The point was never to say the CAGcast's bias are right or wrong based some so-called "facts". It's a fool's errand. I do think it would benefit the show for the host to consider all the different types of gamers out there (and who may listen to the show). Because too often, it devolves into making lame jokes about those gamers.
Eh it is still a subjective matter. After all those all those 8's a based on opinion (a collective opinion but an opinion none the less). Which is the flaw in Cheapy's arguement. I mean, I don't play games based on if other people like them. I play them if I do.
The only important thing is the NUMBER of games you like.
The point was never to say the CAGcast's bias are right or wrong based some so-called "facts". It's a fool's errand. I do think it would benefit the show for the host to consider all the different types of gamers out there (and who may listen to the show). Because too often, it devolves into making lame jokes about those gamers.
Uh, one HUGE flaw with the 360 having 81 8.0 or higher games thing on Metacritic is that it includes XBLA games (PS3 list includes downloadable games too)! Meanwhile, the Wii list DOES NOT include Virtual Console games. Yes, it is true that many of those XBLA games are originals (though the top-rated one, Castlevania, is pretty much a straight remake, right?), but many are not and if you are going to include them you need to include the VC titles too - I'm sure many would be 8.0 or higher.
I count at least 10 XBLA games in that 81. Also, there's 3 versions of Oblivion on there (the game itself, Shivering Isles, and Nights of the Nine). And when it comes down to the so-called variety of games on the 360, most of the rest are FPS, racing, and sports games (eg, NBA 2Kx is on there twice). Once you factor all of that in, the 360 is not the CLEAR-CUT hands down favorite everyone makes it out to be. If you really like FPS and Sports games, then absolutely it is. So I can understand where Cheapy is coming from for sure. But for someone whose tastes differ a bit it is not so clear and it is not a "fact" that the 360 blows the other two systems away. (Now, in my opinion, it is the original content on XBLA that makes it such a great system for me - so I'm not knocking the XBLA stuff by removing it from the comparison. Personally, I love it. I've said it before - besides for a few huge titles like Mass Effect, the 360 is my more "casual" system because I play a lot of XBLA stuff on it
)
OK, looking at my interests (just as a poor example), and removing the XBLA games (which I enjoy immensely but I don't want to go through all the VC games as a comparison so I'll leave them out) and only counting Oblivion once, I have a personal interest in all of TWELVE of those 81 games, and that's including some peripheral interests like Orange Box, Bioshock, and Burnout Paradise that I'm not dying to play but will get to some day, maybe. I also included both Lego Star Wars games on there... On the Wii, I have an interest in NINE of the 80 and above games. And just to be complete, it is SEVEN on the PS3 (and that's including several I'd rather have on the 360 like Burnout, Virtua Tennis 3, etc but I included them to be fair because I picked them off the 360 list).
I count at least 10 XBLA games in that 81. Also, there's 3 versions of Oblivion on there (the game itself, Shivering Isles, and Nights of the Nine). And when it comes down to the so-called variety of games on the 360, most of the rest are FPS, racing, and sports games (eg, NBA 2Kx is on there twice). Once you factor all of that in, the 360 is not the CLEAR-CUT hands down favorite everyone makes it out to be. If you really like FPS and Sports games, then absolutely it is. So I can understand where Cheapy is coming from for sure. But for someone whose tastes differ a bit it is not so clear and it is not a "fact" that the 360 blows the other two systems away. (Now, in my opinion, it is the original content on XBLA that makes it such a great system for me - so I'm not knocking the XBLA stuff by removing it from the comparison. Personally, I love it. I've said it before - besides for a few huge titles like Mass Effect, the 360 is my more "casual" system because I play a lot of XBLA stuff on it
)OK, looking at my interests (just as a poor example
), and removing the XBLA games (which I enjoy immensely but I don't want to go through all the VC games as a comparison so I'll leave them out) and only counting Oblivion once, I have a personal interest in all of TWELVE of those 81 games, and that's including some peripheral interests like Orange Box, Bioshock, and Burnout Paradise that I'm not dying to play but will get to some day, maybe. I also included both Lego Star Wars games on there... On the Wii, I have an interest in NINE of the 80 and above games. And just to be complete, it is SEVEN on the PS3 (and that's including several I'd rather have on the 360 like Burnout, Virtua Tennis 3, etc but I included them to be fair because I picked them off the 360 list).
PyroGamer
Banned
[quote name='io']Uh, one HUGE flaw with the 360 having 81 8.0 or higher games thing on Metacritic is that it includes XBLA games (PS3 list includes downloadable games too)! Meanwhile, the Wii list DOES NOT include Virtual Console games. Yes, it is true that many of those XBLA games are originals (though the top-rated one, Castlevania, is pretty much a straight remake, right?)[/QUOTE]If the Wii remade all their VC games in high definition surround sound with achievements you MIGHT have an argument.
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.
Hey Cheapy and Wombat,
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the author that slagged Mass Effect was taken down a few notches. Her book suddenly had 500+ reviews on amazon that had only one star and shortly after that many of those reviews were cited as helpful. I think now she's since recinded some of her statements or at least backed off a bit.
Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but the author that slagged Mass Effect was taken down a few notches. Her book suddenly had 500+ reviews on amazon that had only one star and shortly after that many of those reviews were cited as helpful. I think now she's since recinded some of her statements or at least backed off a bit.
[quote name='PyroGamer']If the Wii remade all their VC games in high definition surround sound with achievements you MIGHT have an argument.
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter - they are available for download on the system. Does it make a huge difference that they aren't HD? I wasn't even aware Metacritic included all those XBLA game scores in with the full games before. Yeah I looked at them - Bomberman is a remake, Pac-Man is a remake, Castlevania... And note I have Bomberman and Pac-Man and like them both a lot, but it is a little unfair to include these casual games in review comparisons against the full regular games on the Wii as it simply inflates the 360's numbers - so it definitely makes sense to take them out if you are gonna throw numbers around like you did. Did it not matter to YOU when you reiterated the 81 games over 8.0 stat that 3 of them were Oblivion, or did you just blindly quote the stats?
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter - they are available for download on the system. Does it make a huge difference that they aren't HD? I wasn't even aware Metacritic included all those XBLA game scores in with the full games before. Yeah I looked at them - Bomberman is a remake, Pac-Man is a remake, Castlevania... And note I have Bomberman and Pac-Man and like them both a lot, but it is a little unfair to include these casual games in review comparisons against the full regular games on the Wii as it simply inflates the 360's numbers - so it definitely makes sense to take them out if you are gonna throw numbers around like you did
. Did it not matter to YOU when you reiterated the 81 games over 8.0 stat that 3 of them were Oblivion, or did you just blindly quote the stats? [quote name='PyroGamer']If the Wii remade all their VC games in high definition surround sound with achievements you MIGHT have an argument.
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.[/QUOTE]
Edit - Pyro, look again since you were so eager to jump all over me. One of the games is Sonic the Hedgehog 2. You are going to tell me THAT counts for the 360's high rated games but not the Wii? Continue with my regularly scheduled post...
It doesn't matter - they are available for download on the system. Does it make a huge difference that they aren't HD? Cheapy's point was to ask look at which system had the most games available - if you want to throw out the VC then you eliminate a big part of the Wii's appeal. I wasn't even aware Metacritic included all those XBLA game scores in with the full games before. Look, if the Wiiware stuff (thus, original, non-VC DLC) was active now and consisted of a bunch of moderately highly-reviewed puzzle and arcade remake titles (in the 80 range because less was expected of them) people would dismiss them as casual throwaway games. Yeah I looked at them - Bomberman is a remake, Pac-Man is a remake, Sonic 2 is an ultra-port, Castlevania... And note I have Bomberman and Pac-Man and like them both a lot, but it is a little unfair to include these casual games in review comparisons against the full regular games on the Wii as it simply inflates the 360's numbers - so it definitely makes sense to take them out if you are gonna throw numbers around. How did it affect YOUR argument when you reiterated the 81 games over 8.0 stat that 3 of them were Oblivion?.
And note, I believe I said this, but the XBLA stuff is great and definitely a strong point for the system. I would say, for me, it is a better deal than the VC. But comparing Pac-Man CE to Zelda TP is a bit of a stretch. If you want to compare the FULL games on each system do that, THEN compare the XBLA vs VC vs PSN as a separate issue. Fine, XBLA wins in that case (for many people but not all I'm sure) and is a positive point for the 360. But as for the rest of the games it isn't so clear to me - looks like all the systems are close to even when considering my tastes (with the PS3 lacking somewhat now but I'm sure it will catch up). For others it will be the 360 hands down and I don't care if people feel that way for themselves, just don't make it sound like a universal truth.
Dammit, I really didn't want to get sucked into this debate and I want to go play Mass Effect. I just didn't realize until I looked that the 81 360 games with high ratings included a bunch of XBLA games. I just wanted to point out that to some, that might not seem fair. That's all... What others have said about ratings being meaningless is true, anyway, since one of my favorite 360 games is not even in that 81 (Blue Dragon which has a 78 average, so it sits as the 100th best game according to that logic). Anyway, I've had enough of this as I'm sure many others have (and Wombat is getting ready to make that new thread right about now) so Pyro, you are welcome to the last word and I will let it stand uncommented.
Unfortunately, your point completely looses ALL semblance of validity since, besides Castlevania (which is a remake in FULL HD), NONE of the XBLA games in the 8.0 and above list are old ported games, and certainly not just ROM's thrown into an emulator.
Seriously, did you even bother to look if ANY of those games weren't original titles? Does it even concern you that your argument has ANY validity before you just toss it out there? "Many of those games" I think you mean ALL OF THOSE GAMES.[/QUOTE]
Edit - Pyro, look again since you were so eager to jump all over me. One of the games is Sonic the Hedgehog 2. You are going to tell me THAT counts for the 360's high rated games but not the Wii? Continue with my regularly scheduled post...
It doesn't matter - they are available for download on the system. Does it make a huge difference that they aren't HD? Cheapy's point was to ask look at which system had the most games available - if you want to throw out the VC then you eliminate a big part of the Wii's appeal. I wasn't even aware Metacritic included all those XBLA game scores in with the full games before. Look, if the Wiiware stuff (thus, original, non-VC DLC) was active now and consisted of a bunch of moderately highly-reviewed puzzle and arcade remake titles (in the 80 range because less was expected of them) people would dismiss them as casual throwaway games. Yeah I looked at them - Bomberman is a remake, Pac-Man is a remake, Sonic 2 is an ultra-port, Castlevania... And note I have Bomberman and Pac-Man and like them both a lot, but it is a little unfair to include these casual games in review comparisons against the full regular games on the Wii as it simply inflates the 360's numbers - so it definitely makes sense to take them out if you are gonna throw numbers around. How did it affect YOUR argument when you reiterated the 81 games over 8.0 stat that 3 of them were Oblivion?
. And note, I believe I said this, but the XBLA stuff is great and definitely a strong point for the system. I would say, for me, it is a better deal than the VC. But comparing Pac-Man CE to Zelda TP is a bit of a stretch. If you want to compare the FULL games on each system do that, THEN compare the XBLA vs VC vs PSN as a separate issue. Fine, XBLA wins in that case (for many people but not all I'm sure) and is a positive point for the 360. But as for the rest of the games it isn't so clear to me - looks like all the systems are close to even when considering my tastes (with the PS3 lacking somewhat now but I'm sure it will catch up). For others it will be the 360 hands down and I don't care if people feel that way for themselves, just don't make it sound like a universal truth.
Dammit, I really didn't want to get sucked into this debate and I want to go play Mass Effect. I just didn't realize until I looked that the 81 360 games with high ratings included a bunch of XBLA games. I just wanted to point out that to some, that might not seem fair. That's all... What others have said about ratings being meaningless is true, anyway, since one of my favorite 360 games is not even in that 81 (Blue Dragon which has a 78 average, so it sits as the 100th best game according to that logic). Anyway, I've had enough of this as I'm sure many others have (and Wombat is getting ready to make that new thread right about now) so Pyro, you are welcome to the last word and I will let it stand uncommented
.Cheapy and Wombat,
This was my first CAGcast I tuned into; hell it was the first podcast too!
Are all CAGcasts usually this long?
Anyway, interesting show and nice overall entertainment imo with some good discussions. I'll be sure to catch the others for now on.
This was my first CAGcast I tuned into; hell it was the first podcast too!
Are all CAGcasts usually this long?
Anyway, interesting show and nice overall entertainment imo with some good discussions. I'll be sure to catch the others for now on.
iowaholdem
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='CheapyD']CheapyD gets fired up from Burnout Paradise, Fox News' Mass Effect coverage, and 3 Cafe Lattes. We also discuss fanboyism, the latest gaming and shopping news, your CAGbag questions, and so much more![/quote]Hot Dog much, CheapyD? There you go, Wombat, shove that example of capitalizing non-proper nouns in his face!
swerv
CAGiversary!
So the Wii isn't really a system for real, hardcore or traditional gamers? I think the sleepless nights must be affecting your reasoning or at least the speech centres of your brain. It wasn't really a complicated question about the Wii from Wombat but I guess he should've warned you before the show?
Anyway apart from the convoluted and confused explanation of fanboyism and whatever else the whole meaningless fanboy debate brought up it was an enjoyable show. Good work Wombat and CheapyD, thanks for the entertainment. Don't shut out the ranters though, welcome them, they may sometimes give you something interesting to talk about on the show. Saying don't listen is pointless it's you who decides how much time you give them on the show after all.
Anyway apart from the convoluted and confused explanation of fanboyism and whatever else the whole meaningless fanboy debate brought up it was an enjoyable show. Good work Wombat and CheapyD, thanks for the entertainment. Don't shut out the ranters though, welcome them, they may sometimes give you something interesting to talk about on the show. Saying don't listen is pointless it's you who decides how much time you give them on the show after all.
Nephlabobo
CAGiversary!
While I thought Cheapy's argument was actually quite logical and made alot of sense, I have to say...
Way to start a shitstorm two weeks in a row Cheapy!
Way to start a shitstorm two weeks in a row Cheapy!
[quote name='hunterrogue']Actually got the wife listening to the CAGcast now and she is begging me to identify the opening song, isn't it a game show?[/quote]
It is. For the life of me I can't figure it out either. If I had to guess, I think it's the end theme to Press Your Luck. But I wouldn't put money on it.
It is. For the life of me I can't figure it out either. If I had to guess, I think it's the end theme to Press Your Luck. But I wouldn't put money on it.
Brad Bishop
CAGiversary!
Taxes:
It was mentioned in the news section of the podcast about some state (Utah?) putting a 1% tax onto the sale of video games to help them set up 'get out and exercise' type programs.
Cheapy's argument was:
- What does the government do right?
- What about other things that encourage kids to stay indoors (reading)?
- etc.
Wombat's argument (Devil's Advocate):
- He'd support tossing $.60 if it sends some kid to summer camp.
My argument:
The government needs to stay out of my pocket. The feel-good taxes like this are outside the scope of what they were set up for.
The biggest flaw this this (not picking on Wombat here):
Wombat says, "$.60 isn't such a big deal." That's fine - There's nothing stopping Wombat or other supporters of this tax to actually contribute to a charity to send kids to summer camp (or however you want to do it). There's nothing stopping supporters from trying to convince others to contribute to this program.
The difference between 'contributing via charities' and 'taxation' is freedom. Wombat is free to contribute. Cheapy, in this example, wouldn't be (assuming they both lived in the state doing this, of course). Why should Wombat (and other supporters) be able to hold a gun to Cheapy's head to get him to contribute to their cause? If it's that great of a cause then you shouldn't need force to get people to contribute.
Now, you may be thinking, "But this will get the little fatties off their asses!" Ok, What if Cheapy came back with his pet-cause that you didn't agree with but forced it down your throat for the same feel-good reasons?
The ultimate point: Keep all of this charity work out of the government. They have a history of poorly executed programs and it's not like you can stop contributing when you see the waste involved. If anything, they'll just demand more. The argument will be either, "Look at all of these kids we've helped - If you were just taxed 2% then we could help twice as many!," or, "we haven't been able to help nearly enough kids because we simply don't have the funds. We need to raise this tax to 2%!"
With charities, though, if you really think they need more you have the -freedom- to do so. If you think they're bogus and are just blowing through money then you can simply stop contributing. You have that freedom as well. Ultimately, a charity has to be accountable to you because they want you to continue to contribute money. A government program. They can blow through it and then get others to yell at you for not being forced to pay more.
Try to stop a government program from been funded and stealing your money when it goes awry. It can't be done. They'll set up committees until you forget about it but they're still stealing your money.
It was mentioned in the news section of the podcast about some state (Utah?) putting a 1% tax onto the sale of video games to help them set up 'get out and exercise' type programs.
Cheapy's argument was:
- What does the government do right?
- What about other things that encourage kids to stay indoors (reading)?
- etc.
Wombat's argument (Devil's Advocate):
- He'd support tossing $.60 if it sends some kid to summer camp.
My argument:
The government needs to stay out of my pocket. The feel-good taxes like this are outside the scope of what they were set up for.
The biggest flaw this this (not picking on Wombat here):
Wombat says, "$.60 isn't such a big deal." That's fine - There's nothing stopping Wombat or other supporters of this tax to actually contribute to a charity to send kids to summer camp (or however you want to do it). There's nothing stopping supporters from trying to convince others to contribute to this program.
The difference between 'contributing via charities' and 'taxation' is freedom. Wombat is free to contribute. Cheapy, in this example, wouldn't be (assuming they both lived in the state doing this, of course). Why should Wombat (and other supporters) be able to hold a gun to Cheapy's head to get him to contribute to their cause? If it's that great of a cause then you shouldn't need force to get people to contribute.
Now, you may be thinking, "But this will get the little fatties off their asses!" Ok, What if Cheapy came back with his pet-cause that you didn't agree with but forced it down your throat for the same feel-good reasons?
The ultimate point: Keep all of this charity work out of the government. They have a history of poorly executed programs and it's not like you can stop contributing when you see the waste involved. If anything, they'll just demand more. The argument will be either, "Look at all of these kids we've helped - If you were just taxed 2% then we could help twice as many!," or, "we haven't been able to help nearly enough kids because we simply don't have the funds. We need to raise this tax to 2%!"
With charities, though, if you really think they need more you have the -freedom- to do so. If you think they're bogus and are just blowing through money then you can simply stop contributing. You have that freedom as well. Ultimately, a charity has to be accountable to you because they want you to continue to contribute money. A government program. They can blow through it and then get others to yell at you for not being forced to pay more.
Try to stop a government program from been funded and stealing your money when it goes awry. It can't be done. They'll set up committees until you forget about it but they're still stealing your money.
snowsquirrel
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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I just wanted to come to Motorstorms defence for a moment here.
While I agree with you Cheapy, that it may lack a lot of depth, keep in mind that you played the Japanese version which has no online, and lacked a few other features. While there isn't a lot to do besides race, the online aspect provides hours of fun.
The game just has a really fun feel to it. Basically an offroad version of Burnout.
Wombat, it is totally worth a rental. If you like it, you can pick it up cheap, and enjoy many hours online. I believe there are still a ton of people playing online.
If you can score it for $25 off ebay or something, I would say that would be a very good pickup.
I just think the north american version of the game deserves a little more credit than you give the Japanese version.
~S
While I agree with you Cheapy, that it may lack a lot of depth, keep in mind that you played the Japanese version which has no online, and lacked a few other features. While there isn't a lot to do besides race, the online aspect provides hours of fun.
The game just has a really fun feel to it. Basically an offroad version of Burnout.
Wombat, it is totally worth a rental. If you like it, you can pick it up cheap, and enjoy many hours online. I believe there are still a ton of people playing online.
If you can score it for $25 off ebay or something, I would say that would be a very good pickup.
I just think the north american version of the game deserves a little more credit than you give the Japanese version.
~S
Brad Bishop
CAGiversary!
[quote name='snowsquirrel']I just wanted to come to Motorstorms defence for a moment here.
~S[/quote]
I'll pick it up once I can find it at Target (or otherwise) for $20-30.
I look at many of these games and think, "That's just not worth $60 (or even $50 or $40).
It does look like a good $20-30 game (off the shelf new).
~S[/quote]
I'll pick it up once I can find it at Target (or otherwise) for $20-30.
I look at many of these games and think, "That's just not worth $60 (or even $50 or $40).
It does look like a good $20-30 game (off the shelf new).
rogueweapon
CAGiversary!
good show fellas. Regarding the FOX news story, I think anyone who thinks of FOX as a real news outlet still believes WWE is a real sport. It is blatantly obvious that FOX is just a propaganda machine used to manipulate the sheeple for the neoconservative agenda. Btw that cheap as shit rap song is pretty good.
[quote name='snowsquirrel']I just wanted to come to Motorstorms defence for a moment here.
While I agree with you Cheapy, that it may lack a lot of depth, keep in mind that you played the Japanese version which has no online, and lacked a few other features. While there isn't a lot to do besides race, the online aspect provides hours of fun.
The game just has a really fun feel to it. Basically an offroad version of Burnout.
Wombat, it is totally worth a rental. If you like it, you can pick it up cheap, and enjoy many hours online. I believe there are still a ton of people playing online.
If you can score it for $25 off ebay or something, I would say that would be a very good pickup.
I just think the north american version of the game deserves a little more credit than you give the Japanese version.
~S[/QUOTE]
Cheapy sold the game back after about a day.. so he never had a chance to experience the updates the game has received.
While I agree with you Cheapy, that it may lack a lot of depth, keep in mind that you played the Japanese version which has no online, and lacked a few other features. While there isn't a lot to do besides race, the online aspect provides hours of fun.
The game just has a really fun feel to it. Basically an offroad version of Burnout.
Wombat, it is totally worth a rental. If you like it, you can pick it up cheap, and enjoy many hours online. I believe there are still a ton of people playing online.
If you can score it for $25 off ebay or something, I would say that would be a very good pickup.
I just think the north american version of the game deserves a little more credit than you give the Japanese version.
~S[/QUOTE]
Cheapy sold the game back after about a day.. so he never had a chance to experience the updates the game has received.
you know what was funny about this CAGcast, Cheapy at one part of the show, says I'm a grown ass man, blah, blah, blah, I'm not biased.. then someone else on the show, representing himself as Cheapy says, yeah for my photo I took a picture of my ass, and my fromp showed... wow.. Cheapy you definitely earned your place DEEP within the Xbox Live Community.
zombienutz
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
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I enjoyed the show guys. I can't agree more with the horrible way Fox handled their coverage of Mass Effect. They should just change their name to Fox News Entertainment: We report whatever makes controvesry.
Wombat, I agree with you completey about the Spider-Man story line. Working at a comic book shop, I am knee-deep in this stuff at all times. Overall, everyone I talk to hates what is going on, but they do find themselves somewhat liking the reboot issues. I am giving it a chance. I have enjoyed the three newest issues, but I wish they would work the story into the entire Marvel universe.
Keep up the great work Cheapy and Wombat!
Wombat, I agree with you completey about the Spider-Man story line. Working at a comic book shop, I am knee-deep in this stuff at all times. Overall, everyone I talk to hates what is going on, but they do find themselves somewhat liking the reboot issues. I am giving it a chance. I have enjoyed the three newest issues, but I wish they would work the story into the entire Marvel universe.
Keep up the great work Cheapy and Wombat!
About Mephisto: he's actually a Marvel character, they didn't just make him up to be the devil in the Spider-Man arc. You might remember having fought him in Marvel Ultimate Alliance in hell, where you get Ghost Rider. I agree that the whole thing was dumb, but... he's just A devil, not Satan himself
By the way, I like it when Wombat talks comics. More of that, please!
By the way, I like it when Wombat talks comics. More of that, please!
[quote name='Sokkratez']About Mephisto: he's actually a Marvel character, they didn't just make him up to be the devil in the Spider-Man arc. You might remember having fought him in Marvel Ultimate Alliance in hell, where you get Ghost Rider. I agree that the whole thing was dumb, but... he's just A devil, not Satan himself
By the way, I like it when Wombat talks comics. More of that, please![/QUOTE]
I know that, he has been around since the 60's, I was simplifying it for Cheapy's sake
By the way, I like it when Wombat talks comics. More of that, please![/QUOTE]
I know that, he has been around since the 60's, I was simplifying it for Cheapy's sake
[quote name='Thomas96']you know what was funny about this CAGcast, Cheapy at one part of the show, says I'm a grown ass man, blah, blah, blah, I'm not biased.. then someone else on the show, representing himself as Cheapy says, yeah for my photo I took a picture of my ass, and my fromp showed... wow.. Cheapy you definitely earned your place DEEP within the Xbox Live Community.[/QUOTE]
at least he's being real.....and not some tool you can't take seriously.......no offense
at least he's being real.....and not some tool you can't take seriously.......no offense
Amerijapoxicano
CAGiversary!
I'm a recent listener to the CAG cast and really enjoy listening to you guys. My favorite part was hearing CheapyD's Japanese. I've been here for about a year and a half and it sounds like my Japanese is maybe better. Haha, good times. "Let's enjoy speaking Japanese together!"
tyrone hawk
CAG Veteran
Just finished listening the show. Once again, CheapyD and Wombat, great work!!! :lol:
On to my opinions:
* Sorry, Play lovers, but as they already mentioned on this thread, Sony is taking toooooooo much time to really explode the capacities of the PS3. Already they lost FUELS OF WAR, and Rockstar putting the finger blame on the PS3 for the GTA delay, that tells you something
* Not bad, CheapyD, on your opinion on extending the XBL service for one more (UncleGamer also supports this). Alas, that would leave the Silver gamers and Gold-for-a-month gamers without anything. Not that Undertow is a bad game, but just as will happen with all games, you will find half of the gamers loving it and the other half hating it
* If those texas dorks sued Microsoft for the interruption in XBL, then EA has more than enough reasons to sue Fox. Hit'em hard!!!
* C'mon CheapyD, Wombat cannot be that lousy. And I know he's playing his role in COD4. Betcha you're wasting your time trying to shoot him while his team is taking the flag!!! Someone has to be THE TARGET!
* Where are the subtitles for the cell call??
Take care guys. Keep it up!
On to my opinions:
* Sorry, Play lovers, but as they already mentioned on this thread, Sony is taking toooooooo much time to really explode the capacities of the PS3. Already they lost FUELS OF WAR, and Rockstar putting the finger blame on the PS3 for the GTA delay, that tells you something
* Not bad, CheapyD, on your opinion on extending the XBL service for one more (UncleGamer also supports this). Alas, that would leave the Silver gamers and Gold-for-a-month gamers without anything. Not that Undertow is a bad game, but just as will happen with all games, you will find half of the gamers loving it and the other half hating it
* If those texas dorks sued Microsoft for the interruption in XBL, then EA has more than enough reasons to sue Fox. Hit'em hard!!!
* C'mon CheapyD, Wombat cannot be that lousy. And I know he's playing his role in COD4. Betcha you're wasting your time trying to shoot him while his team is taking the flag!!! Someone has to be THE TARGET!
* Where are the subtitles for the cell call??
Take care guys. Keep it up!
LiK
CAGiversary!
Cheapy, I have the PS3 version of Burnout Paradise and I didn't notice any green tint that you mentioned. I was hoping you got that version so I can play with you there. Oh well.
Btw, I got No More Heroes and it's really fun. The perverted jokes and juvenile humor is perfect for you, Cheapy. Highly recommended.
Btw, I got No More Heroes and it's really fun. The perverted jokes and juvenile humor is perfect for you, Cheapy. Highly recommended.
SolidSnake1125
CAG Veteran
please do a Long Island cag meeting!!
[quote name='SolidSnake1125']please do a Long Island cag meeting!![/QUOTE]
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3892413#post3892413
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3892413#post3892413
[quote name='Daemon0101']Maybe the use of the statistics was to show not so much that Cheapy isn't a fanboy, but the fanboys are complete morons. BTW, the stats are not pseudo-science. They are facts. I don't think there is any argument there. [/QUOTE]
The problem is those "stats" are based on a the subjective opinions of ~50-100 media outlets depending on the game. They aren't facts, they are just the compilation of opinions, which in this case is an incredibly small sampling of the population with the source being a relatively homogenous enthusiast press.
I have no problem with Cheapy having a bias for one system, a bias is merely a preference for one system over the others, the word bias just happens to have some very negative connotations. Nobody is completely objective about games, taste in games is all inherently subjective.
[quote name='Brad Bishop']Taxes:
It was mentioned in the news section of the podcast about some state (Utah?) putting a 1% tax onto the sale of video games to help them set up 'get out and exercise' type programs.
Cheapy's argument was:
- What does the government do right?
- What about other things that encourage kids to stay indoors (reading)?
- etc.
Wombat's argument (Devil's Advocate):
- He'd support tossing $.60 if it sends some kid to summer camp.
My argument:
The government needs to stay out of my pocket. The feel-good taxes like this are outside the scope of what they were set up for.
The biggest flaw this this (not picking on Wombat here):
Wombat says, "$.60 isn't such a big deal." That's fine - There's nothing stopping Wombat or other supporters of this tax to actually contribute to a charity to send kids to summer camp (or however you want to do it). There's nothing stopping supporters from trying to convince others to contribute to this program.
The difference between 'contributing via charities' and 'taxation' is freedom. Wombat is free to contribute. Cheapy, in this example, wouldn't be (assuming they both lived in the state doing this, of course). Why should Wombat (and other supporters) be able to hold a gun to Cheapy's head to get him to contribute to their cause? If it's that great of a cause then you shouldn't need force to get people to contribute.
Now, you may be thinking, "But this will get the little fatties off their asses!" Ok, What if Cheapy came back with his pet-cause that you didn't agree with but forced it down your throat for the same feel-good reasons?
The ultimate point: Keep all of this charity work out of the government. They have a history of poorly executed programs and it's not like you can stop contributing when you see the waste involved. If anything, they'll just demand more. The argument will be either, "Look at all of these kids we've helped - If you were just taxed 2% then we could help twice as many!," or, "we haven't been able to help nearly enough kids because we simply don't have the funds. We need to raise this tax to 2%!"
With charities, though, if you really think they need more you have the -freedom- to do so. If you think they're bogus and are just blowing through money then you can simply stop contributing. You have that freedom as well. Ultimately, a charity has to be accountable to you because they want you to continue to contribute money. A government program. They can blow through it and then get others to yell at you for not being forced to pay more.
Try to stop a government program from been funded and stealing your money when it goes awry. It can't be done. They'll set up committees until you forget about it but they're still stealing your money.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, you summed up my thoughts on the matter and saved me some time. I was pretty disappointed in Wombat's analysis, even if he was trying to play devil's advocate. We shouldn't let the government use taxation as a form of control on our personal lives. Wombat, I know you are only "thinking of the children", but regardless of the results of the study you are proposing, this tax is wrong in principle.
On a new topic for Cheapy and Wombat, you guys referred to Endless Ocean as a "nongame", I'm just curious what makes the game a nongame (I haven't played it). I hear the terms "nongame", "real game" and more getting thrown around a lot these days in reference to casual and "hardcore" games respectively, but the rigid definitions that are used to separate these seem rather arbitrary. What classifies a game as a nongame, or not a real game?
The problem is those "stats" are based on a the subjective opinions of ~50-100 media outlets depending on the game. They aren't facts, they are just the compilation of opinions, which in this case is an incredibly small sampling of the population with the source being a relatively homogenous enthusiast press.
I have no problem with Cheapy having a bias for one system, a bias is merely a preference for one system over the others, the word bias just happens to have some very negative connotations. Nobody is completely objective about games, taste in games is all inherently subjective.
[quote name='Brad Bishop']Taxes:
It was mentioned in the news section of the podcast about some state (Utah?) putting a 1% tax onto the sale of video games to help them set up 'get out and exercise' type programs.
Cheapy's argument was:
- What does the government do right?
- What about other things that encourage kids to stay indoors (reading)?
- etc.
Wombat's argument (Devil's Advocate):
- He'd support tossing $.60 if it sends some kid to summer camp.
My argument:
The government needs to stay out of my pocket. The feel-good taxes like this are outside the scope of what they were set up for.
The biggest flaw this this (not picking on Wombat here):
Wombat says, "$.60 isn't such a big deal." That's fine - There's nothing stopping Wombat or other supporters of this tax to actually contribute to a charity to send kids to summer camp (or however you want to do it). There's nothing stopping supporters from trying to convince others to contribute to this program.
The difference between 'contributing via charities' and 'taxation' is freedom. Wombat is free to contribute. Cheapy, in this example, wouldn't be (assuming they both lived in the state doing this, of course). Why should Wombat (and other supporters) be able to hold a gun to Cheapy's head to get him to contribute to their cause? If it's that great of a cause then you shouldn't need force to get people to contribute.
Now, you may be thinking, "But this will get the little fatties off their asses!" Ok, What if Cheapy came back with his pet-cause that you didn't agree with but forced it down your throat for the same feel-good reasons?
The ultimate point: Keep all of this charity work out of the government. They have a history of poorly executed programs and it's not like you can stop contributing when you see the waste involved. If anything, they'll just demand more. The argument will be either, "Look at all of these kids we've helped - If you were just taxed 2% then we could help twice as many!," or, "we haven't been able to help nearly enough kids because we simply don't have the funds. We need to raise this tax to 2%!"
With charities, though, if you really think they need more you have the -freedom- to do so. If you think they're bogus and are just blowing through money then you can simply stop contributing. You have that freedom as well. Ultimately, a charity has to be accountable to you because they want you to continue to contribute money. A government program. They can blow through it and then get others to yell at you for not being forced to pay more.
Try to stop a government program from been funded and stealing your money when it goes awry. It can't be done. They'll set up committees until you forget about it but they're still stealing your money.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, you summed up my thoughts on the matter and saved me some time. I was pretty disappointed in Wombat's analysis, even if he was trying to play devil's advocate. We shouldn't let the government use taxation as a form of control on our personal lives. Wombat, I know you are only "thinking of the children", but regardless of the results of the study you are proposing, this tax is wrong in principle.
On a new topic for Cheapy and Wombat, you guys referred to Endless Ocean as a "nongame", I'm just curious what makes the game a nongame (I haven't played it). I hear the terms "nongame", "real game" and more getting thrown around a lot these days in reference to casual and "hardcore" games respectively, but the rigid definitions that are used to separate these seem rather arbitrary. What classifies a game as a nongame, or not a real game?
In regards to the Mass Effect / Fox News thing i found this hilarious:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=04nbvLXLWHA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=04nbvLXLWHA
Daemon0101
CAG Veteran
[quote name='msdmoney']
I have no problem with Cheapy having a bias for one system, a bias is merely a preference for one system over the others, the word bias just happens to have some very negative connotations. Nobody is completely objective about games, taste in games is all inherently subjective.
[/QUOTE]
Very true. Taste in gaming is subjective and dependent on the individual gamer.
However, bias is not the correct term to use. After all, as you said, it has negative connotations. Favorite would be better suited.
If a person were to blindly choose a system over the others without rational thought, that would be bias.
BTW, the stats were used to show a bigger variety for one system while the other systems were clearly lacking software. That, ladies and gentlemen, are the facts. :lol:
I have no problem with Cheapy having a bias for one system, a bias is merely a preference for one system over the others, the word bias just happens to have some very negative connotations. Nobody is completely objective about games, taste in games is all inherently subjective.
[/QUOTE]
Very true. Taste in gaming is subjective and dependent on the individual gamer.
However, bias is not the correct term to use. After all, as you said, it has negative connotations. Favorite would be better suited.
If a person were to blindly choose a system over the others without rational thought, that would be bias.
BTW, the stats were used to show a bigger variety for one system while the other systems were clearly lacking software. That, ladies and gentlemen, are the facts. :lol:
[quote name='Daemon0101']Very true. Taste in gaming is subjective and dependent on the individual gamer.
However, bias is not the correct term to use. After all, as you said, it has negative connotations. Favorite would be better suited.
If a person were to blindly choose a system over the others without rational thought, that would be bias.
BTW, the stats were used to show a bigger variety for one system while the other systems were clearly lacking software. That, ladies and gentlemen, are the facts. :lol:[/quote]
Where in those stats is there any mention of "variety"? I only heard of a certain number of 8.0 or greater games; there was no breakdown of how many games were in different genres. Try again, man...
However, bias is not the correct term to use. After all, as you said, it has negative connotations. Favorite would be better suited.
If a person were to blindly choose a system over the others without rational thought, that would be bias.
BTW, the stats were used to show a bigger variety for one system while the other systems were clearly lacking software. That, ladies and gentlemen, are the facts. :lol:[/quote]
Where in those stats is there any mention of "variety"? I only heard of a certain number of 8.0 or greater games; there was no breakdown of how many games were in different genres. Try again, man...
rogueweapon
CAGiversary!
Hey cheapy and wombat I haven't heard you guys mention this yet. This has new videogame implications, please check out this video of new hologram technology and please give your impressions on the next show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5esT95Glw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5esT95Glw
Daemon0101
CAG Veteran
[quote name='orko60']Where in those stats is there any mention of "variety"? I only heard of a certain number of 8.0 or greater games; there was no breakdown of how many games were in different genres. Try again, man...[/QUOTE]
Variety. More of. A bigger selection. More to choose from. Take your pick.
[quote name='LiK']are we gonna dig up this "bias" thing again? Cheapy likes what he likes, why do people care so much?[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Variety. More of. A bigger selection. More to choose from. Take your pick.
[quote name='LiK']are we gonna dig up this "bias" thing again? Cheapy likes what he likes, why do people care so much?[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Not that anyone cares but when I looked through the scores on Metacritic to see if I had the right combo of consoles for myself it turned out fairly interesting. I looked at everything rated above 75. (Pain being ranked below 75 is completely absurd so I am including that, because I freakin' love that game!)
I took out multi platform games because in my opinion, you can play them no matter which console you have and I don't play online so they don't matter to me. Again this is my opinion, feel free to view the games and put your own criteria in place. But make the criteria before hand so you can go down the lists and be fair. It may be educational to you as it was for me.
Multiplats that I took off the list:
Rock Band
Orange Box
NHL 08
Madden 08
Virtua Tennis 3
Tiger Woods 08
Assassin's Creed
Stranglehold
That left me with this list:
360
Dead Rising
Mass Effect
Crackdown
Lost Planet
Carcassonne
Catan
PS3:
Ratchet & Clank
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Uncharted
Heavenly Sword
Calling All Cars
Pain
Wii:
Super Mario Galaxy
Zack & Wiki
No More Heroes
MLB Power Pros
Fire Emblem
That makes it 6, 6, 5. I just thought that was interesting as I am a PSWii console owner. I agree that anybody who has just a Wii, although they may be a gamer is really missing out on the best games. My Wii is the least played out of my Wii, PS3, DS, PSP and GBA. I like it but it is missing a lot and SSBBrawl is not the answer for me as I disliked the previous entries in the series, even if they did include Fire Emblem characters and I really wanted to like them.
All that pointless crap said, I think that Cheapy likes his 360 more because it has more games he likes, is this bias and does it sometimes skew the show, sure. But it isn't like he doesn't discuss the others. And if you factor in the amout of time the 360 sections discuss multiplatform games it really balances out the 360 and the PS3. The Wii still comes up short, but anybody who has a Wii and another console is used to that.
One last opinion, all fanboys are bad, Nintendo fanboys get the crown for the worst by far!
I took out multi platform games because in my opinion, you can play them no matter which console you have and I don't play online so they don't matter to me. Again this is my opinion, feel free to view the games and put your own criteria in place. But make the criteria before hand so you can go down the lists and be fair. It may be educational to you as it was for me.
Multiplats that I took off the list:
Rock Band
Orange Box
NHL 08
Madden 08
Virtua Tennis 3
Tiger Woods 08
Assassin's Creed
Stranglehold
That left me with this list:
360
Dead Rising
Mass Effect
Crackdown
Lost Planet
Carcassonne
Catan
PS3:
Ratchet & Clank
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Uncharted
Heavenly Sword
Calling All Cars
Pain
Wii:
Super Mario Galaxy
Zack & Wiki
No More Heroes
MLB Power Pros
Fire Emblem
That makes it 6, 6, 5. I just thought that was interesting as I am a PSWii console owner. I agree that anybody who has just a Wii, although they may be a gamer is really missing out on the best games. My Wii is the least played out of my Wii, PS3, DS, PSP and GBA. I like it but it is missing a lot and SSBBrawl is not the answer for me as I disliked the previous entries in the series, even if they did include Fire Emblem characters and I really wanted to like them.
All that pointless crap said, I think that Cheapy likes his 360 more because it has more games he likes, is this bias and does it sometimes skew the show, sure. But it isn't like he doesn't discuss the others. And if you factor in the amout of time the 360 sections discuss multiplatform games it really balances out the 360 and the PS3. The Wii still comes up short, but anybody who has a Wii and another console is used to that.
One last opinion, all fanboys are bad, Nintendo fanboys get the crown for the worst by far!
V
Virtua
Guest
Why do people care so much if Cheapy likes one thing over the other? I thought this was a show with personable, human hosts, not robot overseers that represent everything in equal percentages so Thomas96 can be happy.
Keep up the good work, Cheapy, love the CAGcast!
Keep up the good work, Cheapy, love the CAGcast!
bread's done