CAGcast #147: The Airing of the Grievances

[quote name='JadedJedi']I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Michael Pachter is full of crap.[/quote]Yeah, I'll agree with that. I remember early in 2008, Pachter was on the OXM Podcast and said the Wii would dominate (correct) and that the PS3 would eclipse the 360 (way off) this holiday season. Hats off for being blunt right to Xbox journalists' faces but as accurate as any 15 year old forum poster. As we've seen lately, these Wall Street investment types are not that bright.
 
[quote name='AwRy108']Meanwhile, Microsoft dropped the XBox like a bad habit, despite the fact that lots of people had no intention of shelving theirs.

I felt pretty burned when Microsoft jumped ship from the original XBox, and then hastily launched the 360 despite the massive hardware issues; and this is the main reason why the PS3 was the safest purchase for me, even at the higher price point.[/quote] In Dean Takahashi's book "The Xbox 360 Uncloaked" they revealed the reason why they abandoned the original Xbox so quickly. Due to the licensing deal with Nvidia there was no way to ever bring the cost down of the system to where Microsoft could break even on the system. Ask your library to score a copy. It's a great read to see why things are the way they are.

And to be fair to Microsoft, they stopped production of the system but they still allowed anyone who wanted to publish a game to do so. Madden 2009 was put out. And the servers for all Xbox LIVE original Xbox games are still up and running. (Except for EA which insisted on running their own servers... and shutting them down 2 years after a game's release.)

In fact, Nielsen revealed that more people were still playing their original Xbox then PlayStation 3 in 2008.
 
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Just wanted to comment on the part of the show where it was discussed about this generation lasting longer then most. I'd be OK with that too. A Xbox 720/PS4 would just have slightly better graphics, bigger hard drive space. Not enough reason to warrant a generational change. Every console generation is really driven by a big upgrade in computer technology.

PS1/Saturn/N64 = CD-ROM and 3D chipsets
PS2/Xbox = DVD-ROM (and baby steps online support)
Xbox 360/PS3/Wii = HD and full online support

There hasn't been any pressing computer technology that warrants an upgrade so far. Maybe touch screen technology but that's iffy.
 
"GTA 4 is not a game for gamers..."


WOW...just when I think you're one of the dumbest people in gaming you make it worst.
 
[quote name='steverl22']"GTA 4 is not a game for gamers..."


WOW...just when I think you're one of the dumbest people in gaming you make it worst.[/QUOTE]

who said that?
 
Hey cheapy,

i really love the show and im eager to listen to stories that you and wombat. I was jsut wondering why you decided to move to tokyo? also im trying to find wombats ending to the dark knight but i cant seem to find it.

thanks
 
One additional thing, I think that video games will actually go all digital before movies go all digital.

Most gamers are now used to digital distribution of proucts, wheather it be patches, DLC, etc. But with Steam being a huge factor in the PC gaming market, and PSN continuing to bring full games as downloadable on PSN, I think we comsume a lot of our gaming without physical media

I think that most of the movie watching comsumers are used to having physical media and dont want to change anytime soon. Sure there are some that are savvy enough to get a Netflix set-topbox, or get a movie on-demand every once in a while, but I would argue it is a very small percentage.
 
[quote name='banodyne']Just wanted to comment on the part of the show where it was discussed about this generation lasting longer then most. I'd be OK with that too. A Xbox 720/PS4 would just have slightly better graphics, bigger hard drive space. Not enough reason to warrant a generational change. Every console generation is really driven by a big upgrade in computer technology.

PS1/Saturn/N64 = CD-ROM and 3D chipsets
PS2/Xbox = DVD-ROM (and baby steps online support)
Xbox 360/PS3/Wii = HD and full online support

There hasn't been any pressing computer technology that warrants an upgrade so far. Maybe touch screen technology but that's iffy.[/QUOTE]

I think there are a lot of reason this generation will last longer.

It simply costs a lot to develop a new console, and in this economy, that is probably not something companies do not want to do. They typically take losses on console sales for the first few years to get a stong install base.

Also, is the public ready to pay top dollar for a new console? That answer is easily no as the PS3 has probably not met expectations because of the higher price as compared to other consoles...even though you get a lot for your money with a PS3. The averege mom buying a console for the kids probably doesn't know that, so the lower price wins.

Further, the Wii has shown that success can be achieved without the best graphics and sound capabilities. Many have said that the Wii is an enhanced GameCube with a motion controller. Casual gaming has taken over -- but will the shovelware kill the Wii, only time will tell.

Also, with the internet connectivity -- these consoles can be updated, further increasing capabilities. We've already seen that on the PS3, where firmware updates have been consistent.

For a lot of reason, I see similarities between the Wii and Atari 2600 -- we know how that ended. Nintendo ha sproven themselves to be a sharper company in terms of how their products are handled, and the industry is much more cemented, but sill, I'm concerned of a crash simply due to shovelware that we see for the Wii and we saw that for the 2600 in the early 80's.
 
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Wombat's opinion that all Sony has to compete with is itself is dead on right. Wombat is really shaping up to be the next Michael Pachter. Proving once again that Wombat is the hardest working marsupial in the video game world.
 
Stop talking about Howard Stern without giving us a reason to care. He is completely irrelevant to most people. I'm almost to the point where I'll listen to the boring asses on the other podcasts over the Cagcast. Cagcast has already dropped two spots on my list behind GiantBomb and RebelFM.

And Wombat is an idiot. He needs to stop. PS3 is failing exclusively due to the price which has been compounded by the current economic conditions. It is premium priced product that was positioned based on market assumptions that are no longer valid. Hindsight is 20/20 and no amount of marketing at this point can change the core product itself.

The discussion on hard drive size was also mindnumbing. By far the number one factor holding back digital distribution is bandwidth. The 360 drives are expensive because they are 2.5" notebook drives.
 
[quote name='jkanownik']And Wombat is an idiot. He needs to stop. PS3 is failing exclusively due to the price which has been compounded by the current economic conditions. It is premium priced product that was positioned based on market assumptions that are no longer valid. Hindsight is 20/20 and no amount of marketing at this point can change the core product itself.[/quote]

Of course the PlayStation 3's high price point is a big factor in their poor sales, but saying that marketing has no part to play is an asinine assumption. Let me refresh your memory:

Nintendo's "Wii would like to play" campaign:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p25y36LMZys
Sony's deranged baby campaign:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq9vHFKZHLE

Whichever way you look at it, Sony's piss-poor marketing of the PS3 can't have helped their current predicament.
 
John is 100% spot-on. As soon as Wombat mentioned Sony's poor marketing decisions, the very first thing that came to mind instantly was that awful, meaningless deranged baby commercial that came out at the time of the system's launch. A terrible marketing campaign that came at no better time than the PS3's launch. What better way to show off your $600 console to the general public than through a reflection in a plastic baby's eye? The sad thing is that Sony still TO THIS DAY almost never shows off the actual games in their commercials. In fact, it's pretty scary that they haven't learned.
 
[quote name='John']Of course the PlayStation 3's high price point is a big factor in their poor sales, but saying that marketing has no part to play is an asinine assumption. Let me refresh your memory:

Nintendo's "Wii would like to play" campaign:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p25y36LMZys
Sony's deranged baby campaign:

Whichever way you look at it, Sony's piss-poor marketing of the PS3 can't have helped their current predicament.[/quote]

Companies do not create their own ad compaign. They come up with a message and partner with an advertising firm to deliver that message. Of course they have input to the process, but they definitely didn't come up with the baby ads on their own. In fact, they ended up leaving their advertising partner of 13 years after that and went with Deutsch in late 2007.

I'm not saying that there aren't issues with their marketing. What I am saying is that complaining about their marketing is like focusing on a cut on their finger when their legs have been cut off. Complain about Sony's marketing all you want, but it is nowhere near there biggest problem.

It's even possible that upper management at Sony is actually happy they sold less PS3's this past year than they were expecting. That means they lost less money. I'm not saying they actually did, just that there's a chance that could even have gone as far as to take actions like cutting marketing spending. It's retarded in this current credit environment to encourage a company to spend more money marketing a product that they lose money on. We have no idea what is going on with them. Their parent company just lost $2.9 billion dollars. They have major issues with dwindling cash reserves and rising debt. There's even talk of bankruptcy in their future.
 
I'm really surprised that Wombat had nice things to say about the Wii than bashing it. I guess the numbers don't lie. People are playing the Wii.
 
[quote name='dan13l858']I'm really surprised that Wombat had nice things to say about the Wii than bashing it. I guess the numbers don't lie. People are playing the Wii.[/QUOTE]

How many people buy the Wii is unquestioned...how many are playing is another story. Certainly, the casual gamer or young kids are, but are others?
 
Hey Cheapy,
Do you realize that you are Sony? You talk about these cool CAG features but oh wait they got delayed. Or how you have to do something to get in the beta. face it shit happens. I just find this funny since you rip into Sony for the same things. Many people could whine why CAG doesn't have this or that and you would do the same thing and go I'll think about it. I just find it funny you have the same business plan as Sony and all you do is rag on Sony for doing things the way they do them.
 
BTW -- I don't think using socks is a great idea -- gotta be some germs in there! Gosh -- hopefully, they were at least fresh socks!
 
What was wombat's alternate ending for The Dark Knight? I did a bit of searching, but couldn't find it anywhere. Can anyone link it to me please?
 
[quote name='bsesb2003']BTW -- I don't think using socks is a great idea -- gotta be some germs in there! Gosh -- hopefully, they were at least fresh socks![/quote]

You don't have to wipe it clean.
 
Holy fuck

I've never seen that commercial (with the baby) before I've only seen the other ones that air all the time, wow WTF was anyone who thought that up thinking?
 
Good show as always guys...Quick question Cheapy regarding the price tracker (btw the idea to track prices on wishlist games is one of the best ideas I've heard of,on any site period).Will we be able to also check/track the prices of dvds/blu rays?? I know this is mainly a gaming deals site but I've found many good dvd/BR deals here too and think many CAGs would enjoy that feature as well.

Also,will you still be implementing the collection/game database in the future? I've haven't heard any mention of it and was curious if the idea was scrapped altogether or just on as high on your lists of things for the site as others (like the tracker and trade system)

Thanks,hope you respond !!
 
Back when those freaky white room commercials were coming out, they were the only exposure I had to the PS3. I saw those commercials and absolutely *hated* Sony. I wanted nothing to do with the PS3. But then I wanted a blu-ray player... and one that played games would be nice, too. I think I really bought my PS3 in spite of their early advertising. That, and I was sincerely afraid that an XBox 360 would cause my house to burn down.
[quote name='bsesb2003']How many people buy the Wii is unquestioned...how many are playing is another story. Certainly, the casual gamer or young kids are, but are others?[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why "the casual gamer" and "young kids" don't seem to matter when we talk about who's playing what. The casual gamer buys games. Nintendo wants to sell games. Just because the "casual gamer" doesn't spend every spare moment gaming doesn't mean they are a worthless demographic or should be derided.
As for young kids... they are tomorrow's casual AND hardcore gamers. If Nintendo can create brand loyalty early, why shouldn't they? That's what they did with the generation who is now 25 - 35, and I bet tons of them bought a Wii and Twilight Princess. I know I did.
 
Hey Cheapy and Wombat
Long time listener, first time poster and yes i know my name sucks. I so wish i had been there at the start of the show when you said how did we get from Obama to poop to say the're both brown!:lol::applause::whistle2:# One of the best shows in ages, keep up the good work.
I love you Wombat!
 
I just finished watching the documentary "King of Kong, A fistful of quarters" made in 2007, and lemme tell you Cheapy, you ain't the biggest douche bag, Billy Mitchell is and should win that award every year.
 
I just saw that ad for sony, WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY THINKING SON!!!?? Dude who the f*ck is in charge of there ads? They need to be taken out back and have there nuts shattered to prevent them from having offspring. They don't wanna advertise Killzone 2 but they spend dollars on this shit, i dunno anymore man.
 
[quote name='MikeFightNight']I just saw that ad for sony, WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY THINKING SON!!!?? Dude who the f*ck is in charge of there ads? They need to be taken out back and have there nuts shattered to prevent them from having offspring. They don't wanna advertise Killzone 2 but they spend dollars on this shit, i dunno anymore man.[/quote]


yeah it freaked me out too.....

IN OTHER NEWS , great Podcast guys!
 
[quote name='MikeFightNight']I just saw that ad for sony, WHAT THE F*CK ARE THEY THINKING SON!!!?? Dude who the f*ck is in charge of there ads? They need to be taken out back and have there nuts shattered to prevent them from having offspring. They don't wanna advertise Killzone 2 but they spend dollars on this shit, i dunno anymore man.[/quote]

The ad ran at launch and they have since fired the company that made it. It has nothing to do with anything they've done in the last two years, which of course includes Killzone 2.

Sony just posted their results for Q4 for the Playstation division and they only made $4.42 million dollars. Run a couple of extra Killzone 2 ads and that goes negative. I don't think people realize how bad things are for Sony right now. This isn't a little problem. It's a huge fucking problem. And a price drop isn't the answer. By my estimation they would have lost $500-$700 million in the quarter if they had dropped the price $100. Even without a price drop driving extra consoles doesn't help them now because the cost is so high.

They may chase after Killzone 2 later, but they simply can't afford to do it right now. If it sells close to expectations and the reviews stay high it is possible that they will get some additional marketing dollars, but the purse strings will be extremely tight until Sony starts to show positive results from it's restructuring.
 
I don't understand the POINT of advertising a game well before a month before it comes out? I say 3weeks to until it comes out is the best time to advertise.

In fact, its better if 2 weeks before a game comes out, they start. They've already stated on the PS blog they will have a huge ad campaign for this.

Also, the digital game distribution has happened! It's just happened on the PC first, any game you want you can get digitally and legally in some form online even if Steam doesn't have it, theres impulse, theres direct2drive, etc.

Sony isnt stupid, they know killzone 2 is a huge game for them, and they will advertise. Stop saying they dont know/care about their market, they do. In fact, the people that make the games and the people that write on the blog/work for sony always reply to people's comments. PS home is getting improved because of suggestions on their forums.

I don't know what else i wanted to say but the fact you completely disregarded Steam and the PC basically is annoying.
Oh wait, i remember, i wanted to say how digital movie distribution wont ever overtake the dvd/blu-ray market, i think there will be a nice co-existence, with the disc market having 99 percent share and the other part buying movies thru xbox live,psn, amazon, etc.
 
dont trust this guy scavenger4 i meesaged him on ebay to let him know some heroclix he had listed as chase were not actually chase at all and instead of correcting his mistakes he blocked me. most people thank me so they dont take advantage of someone who didnt know better but this guy obviously doesnt care
 
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