CAGcast #198: Techtonic Farts

CheapyD

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[preview][img-l=4668]3078[/img-l]This week's show features E3 predictions, excessive name-dropping, EA's Online Pass, Lost Planet 2, 3D Dot Heroes, your CAGbag and Twitter questions, and much more!

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Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):




 
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Perfect! I just smoked a bowl and a CAGcast will do great right now! I actually recorded it on my audioboo ;) lol
 
Way to transition from glory holes into mothers day.



Lost Planet 2 sounds fine, basically it does look like a take on the Monster Hunter formula, and I've been waiting for that to come to a console that has dual analogs, plus MH probably just isnt your cup of tea anyway, Im looking forward to playing it. As far as losing the story, do you really miss it? It was completely silly.
 
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Nice 2 year old discussion of the Wii Shop Channel stuff guys. You can link the stuff to your Club Nintendo account, but nothing is guaranteed; however, it's your best bet. It's the reason I don't download from their shop a lot anymore. If Nintendo continues down this path, and doesn't work out something for pre-existing customers (mainly for a Wii to Wii HD (?)), it could like to a lot of people to resort to piracy of those older games, and in turn, newer games.
 
I just noticed the coupon for domains from godaddy went up in price... lame...well least i got one for the original discount...
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Nice 2 year old discussion of the Wii Shop Channel stuff guys. You can link the stuff to your Club Nintendo account, but nothing is guaranteed; however, it's your best bet. It's the reason I don't download from their shop a lot anymore. If Nintendo continues down this path, and doesn't work out something for pre-existing customers (mainly for a Wii to Wii HD (?)), it could like to a lot of people to resort to piracy of those older games, and in turn, newer games.[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.
 
[quote name='dastly75']"Techtonic Farts", sounds like another classy cagcast...[/QUOTE]


Sounds like a Funkadelic album title.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.[/QUOTE]

ouch
 
Hey guys, quick clarification. When you play EA games online, you are definitely playing on EA servers. You might remember that EA will shut down servers to games they deem old or unpopular. For example, EA shut down servers to their older versions of the Madden and NBA games. People were forced to migrate to the newer versions in order to play online.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Online Pass either, Cheapy. But if people are paying money now and they still shut down servers to games that have Online Passes, then EA is evil.
 
On the EA "pay to play used copies" issue and server cost, used game users accessing EA servers puts no additional strain on the servers. Only one person can use a copy of a game at a time. So when the original user sells his copy, the next owner just takes his "place" in the potential server population.
 
Good episode this week! Loved Shipwrecks review of Lost Planet 2 the best. The money line during that discussion was "Capcom makes games that look like Americans would like, but play like games Japanese like" (or something like that).

If I send you guys a picture of my poop - can I get some stickers?
 
Stankin' ass bitches, they need to wash up. Don't get mad because I don't want to fuck. You need, soap and water, soap and water, soap and water, soap and water.

Best intro ever.
 
Personally, I am not excited for the Gary Coleman edition Xbox 360. It makes sense since they are trying to compete with the PS3 Slim market share, but really? I'm on my third 360 because of red ringing and I don't see how this can help. If they manufacture it better, I'm sold, but until then I'm skeptical. What could be in those extra inches we're losing that could improve performance? (Obligatory that's what she said.)
 
Consider me shocked, honestly and deeply shocked, over the lack of reaction to the EA Online Pass system. I, myself, am torn over the issue however I'm one of those dirty, dirty bastards who enjoys DLC. The enemy to the show in several ways. However, with the online pass and now money actually exchanging hands, I have to wonder what impact, if any, this will have on EA's tendacy to close servers. What I mean is this, count the days until Bad Company 1 can no longer be played online (if that day hasn't already passed), Skate 2 becomes road kill, and Madden 2010 empties it's arenas. With EA running the servers, the threat of shutdown hits every title they publish. Hint, this isn't an EA exclusive deal either. I have plenty of 360 and PS3 games that now have no servers. With EA now actively charging for the online servers, does this now obligate them to keep them open?

Having said that, I'd like to chime in on the DLC debate. There IS good and bad in this field and while the costume packs of Super Street Fighter IV absolutely deserved the ire they gain, think about Wipeout HD Fury Pack. $10 essentially doubles the content of a $20 game. And think about how bland Rock Band would be if you couldn't expand it nearly infinitely (personally, my copy of Rock Band 2 has over 400 songs, with 47 to be added June 8th). Map packs, additional episodes, all of these things can help boost a game beyond it's initial purchase. Despite the crews opinion otherwise, the good DLC isn't stuff that would have been in the game, but rather the stuff that would have remained chopped or even held back for a "Directors Cut" or Expansion Pack. And I don't mind if they are planned at the beginning. Why? Because as a 3D artist myself, I know my job is done relatively early in a games cycle. Aside from having masses of artists suddenly unemployed, it keeps us busy between the time one projects art assets are finished and another project is ramping up. In the old days, we would be hired guns, wandering between studios, but nowadays DLC has added stability to an unusually unstable job profession. While I now work in flight simulation, I had a bunch of friends who essentially moved every 8-10 months and aside from one, most are now over 5 years living in one spot.

As to your book analogy, I'm afraid it too falls flat. More often than not, should a book become a huge success, further printings often include "insider info," research notes, new epilogues leading into sequels, forewords by other authors, after words provided by the authors, sometimes even maps and in the case of fantasy novels, translation notes from whatever variant of gibberty joob joob this author made up to add "realism" to his/her hippie elf commune. And this is all before the trilogy collections drop... books, despite being in print, do have a LOT of DLC. In fact, the entire text book industry is built around the model. The reason why we don't hear about it that often is because 90% of books are expected to fail.
 
If you remember Rocket Knight Adventures for the Sega Genesis, and you had the chance to play it back in the day and have fun with it's quirky, plaftorming action (which means you're not a 12 year old kid who thinks the only way to have fun with games is by giving headshots and camping on Modern Warfare 2), you should at least try out the Rocket Knight demo. I had fun with it, although I would definitely wait for it to go on sale ($10.00/800 MS points should be fine I guess).
 
I'm surprised at how short-sighted everyone is being about this EA situation. There are many variables that no one seems to be considering.

First off, we have no idea how this will effect multi-gamer homes. Have any of you considered that people in your own home may have to pay $10.00 to play online even if you bought the game new? If the online pass is linked to your EA account, anyone in your home other than you might have to pay to play online.

Second, how can you say EA doesn't make any money from used games? Their games are filled to the brim with in game advertising. It doesn't matter if the game was new or used, when the ad loads in, EA gets paid. Valve or Bethesda, sure, they might not make money off of used games, but EA is getting advertising revenue.

Third, I think the biggest issue is if this is for games using EA's servers exclusively. It's one thing to ask for more revenue when gamers will be using their servers. However, to charge for P2p online that uses Xbox's matchmaking servers (which we're already paying for) would be downright criminal.

Finally, I'd like to understand why video games and movies are the only industries allowed to punish the used market. Used Books, Furniture, Cars, Televisions, MP3 players, Gaming Consoles, etc. are all perfectly ok despite the original manufacturer making no money off of the sale. It's the movie and video game industries that suffer exclusively from this dastardly business practice.

We're going to have to wait and see where EA takes this, but their current direction and everyone's complacency with it doesn't offer much comfort.
 
Another great show. I am glad that someone finally mentioned the issue with not being able to transfer downloaded content between Wii systems. I too hope that Nintendo would figure out some kind of strategy for this.

Wombat, I will never be able to play another EA game without thinking about Tectonic Farts.

Damn you Cheapy for getting that pooping song stuck in my head.

Ship, keep up the good work.
 
Regarding 3D Dot Game Heroes and Wombat-

The "Install" option is the last choice on the main screen with "Continue", "New Game", etc. The load times pretty much disappear when installed.

As far as your black bar issue, I think I might know the problem. The "button guide" can be shut off in the options menu. It is the translucent black bar in the lower right corner of the screen. At least on mine this bar shuts off. However, when on it doesn't really block much of the screen and it wasn't the black obstruction that first grabbed my attention.

I could be wrong and it might have just been my experience, but I'm guessing you were already in a dungeon when you first noticed the obstructed view. If so, then it is actually the bottom wall of the room you are in and not a screen overlay. Because of the game's isometric view this wall covers almost the entire bottom row of squares in many dungeon rooms occasionally obscuring enemies or the moving spike traps. I haven't found it to be too big a deal most of the time, but I agree that it can be annoying when it does obscure an enemy. There is not much that you can do about it unless they patch the game to make this wall semi-transparent or to put a slight glow or outline around enemies and the player when you are behind something.

Again, I could be totally wrong, but I found the dungeon lower wall obstruction to be much more distracting than the small button overlay and thought it might be what you were noticing since you thought you had already turned the overlay off.

Also, I've finished the first two dungeons and so far I am loving the game except for this one tiny issue. (which isn't that big of deal.)
 
This EA Online Pass thing is absolutely infuriating. As it is, they expect people to spend $60 every year for what is essentially a roster update plus some minor game tweaks. There is not that much of a difference year-to-year between games yet EA doesn't see a problem charging full price for it.

I guess I see more of a problem with it when it comes to Madden because gamers don't have any other choice because of the licensing issues. It isn't the same with the NHL series because there is more than one game to choose from.

Wasn't it earlier this year that EA said they were going to start shutting down their sports servers as soon as the next year's title comes out? It would be awesome to pay for a used copy of NHL '11, spend $10 to play online, then watch the servers get turned off a few months later. How can you see nothing wrong with that?
 
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Great show as always...

I thought we paid 50 bucks a year to play online with xbox live. Now we have to potentially pay an extra 10 bucks. Also, EA does indirectly benefit from used game sales because some people buy new EA games with the credit they get from trading in old EA games.
 
cheapy, i think the fact that you dont buy used games or that none of you guys on the cagcast are really big sports games guys is affecting your views on this whole online pass matter. i honestly felt the same as you do, because it doesnt really affect me too much but i read a comment on destructoid that turned me around completely. the comment was in reply to how game companies have to make up the money lost from used games somehow

"games companies don't profit from used games sales, and money has to be made somehow"

Actually, it doesn't "have to be made", they simply want the extra money, and have the ability to milk it out of you. It all goes back to the fact that game companies feel entitled to a cut of secondhand sales, even though no other physical media (music, movies, books) enjoys the same luxury. Game companies are special as far as they're concerned, and since they're actually capable of crippling your experience, they have finally decided to do just that.

Even though they already received money for the original purchase, and since the original owner has since sold the game, that secondhand sale will not increase the amount of strain/use of their online services; but they still somehow feel justified in holding online play hostage until you pay them again for that disc they've already sold once before, and they didn't even have to pay to get it back! This is nothing more than a money grab, disguised as cleverly as possible as something reasonable. Credit to EA for going so far to make it look acceptable, but poo on this continued drive to milk every last cent out of gamers' pockets.

what do you think?
 
[quote name='Jasonofindy']Regarding 3D Dot Game Heroes and Wombat-

The "Install" option is the last choice on the main screen with "Continue", "New Game", etc. The load times pretty much disappear when installed.

As far as your black bar issue, I think I might know the problem. The "button guide" can be shut off in the options menu. It is the translucent black bar in the lower right corner of the screen. At least on mine this bar shuts off. However, when on it doesn't really block much of the screen and it wasn't the black obstruction that first grabbed my attention.

I could be wrong and it might have just been my experience, but I'm guessing you were already in a dungeon when you first noticed the obstructed view. If so, then it is actually the bottom wall of the room you are in and not a screen overlay. Because of the game's isometric view this wall covers almost the entire bottom row of squares in many dungeon rooms occasionally obscuring enemies or the moving spike traps. I haven't found it to be too big a deal most of the time, but I agree that it can be annoying when it does obscure an enemy. There is not much that you can do about it unless they patch the game to make this wall semi-transparent or to put a slight glow or outline around enemies and the player when you are behind something.

Again, I could be totally wrong, but I found the dungeon lower wall obstruction to be much more distracting than the small button overlay and thought it might be what you were noticing since you thought you had already turned the overlay off.

Also, I've finished the first two dungeons and so far I am loving the game except for this one tiny issue. (which isn't that big of deal.)[/QUOTE]

Thank you, I will try all of this :)
 
My first thought when I heard about the EA plan was "Good, maybe gamestop will drop the prices of used games".

Actually, all of your analogies were terrible. I think Ship hit the nail on the head when he said "DLC could be anything". It is not one monolithic entity. Sometimes it is minor stuff added on (costumes), sometimes it is stuff that would've been included in the old days (game ending in Prince of Persia), sometimes it is completely extra gameplay (Fallout 3 expansions). I think some DLC is justified and some is not.

And Wombat, do you watch How I Met Your Mother? You are the douche that Ted was when you start lecturing on the topics for which you have some knowledge.
 
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[quote name='CheapyD']Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.[/QUOTE]
There is. Contact Nintendo.
 
[quote name='usickenme']

And Wombat, do you watch How I Met Your Mother? You are the douche that Ted was when you start lecturing on the topics for you which you have some knowledge.[/QUOTE]

you got me on that one
 
I wonder if EA games will cost less used, maybe 5 dollars less, so the consumer and gamestop will split the cost. This should put an end to ea games being 54.99 used the week they come out.

One thing ea didn't anticipate, is if the used game become significantly cheaper and more people buy used and don't play online. Not everyone has live, and plays online. Some people just play games with there friends, and when a game is 20 or 30 dollars less used, more people may buy it used.
 
Lots of good comments in here this week...thanks!

I think we all know the reason why EA and other companies play this DLC game with us...because the technology exists to do so. That's the only reason why other media formats don't do it; they can't.

The reason I am not outraged by the Online Pass is that at least I don't have to spend more than the original price of the game to gain access. I can also feel like I'm getting more value out of my day 1 purchase. It makes me crazy when I pay full price for a game only to find that the price has dropped quickly and/or their is paid DLC that really should have been there from the start.

However, the bottom line is this:

I can't recall a single piece of DLC or DLC related tech that makes me glad the system was ever implemented.
 
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[quote name='Wombat']you got me on that one[/QUOTE]

Oh I think we all are at times, yours is just recorded.
 
Wombat, you nailed it about Capcom. Also why does it seem like your so disliked? I've listened to the show longer than I've been around the site and I personally can't see it. Great show as always guys. Thanks for making my workday suck a little less.
 
I'll definitely be taking a break from studying and listening to this podcast. The only thing I've looked forward to all year (gaming-wise) is E3.
 
Great show as always, really liked hearing how Wombat was comparing DLC to ice cream and Cheapy's review of the Just Cause 2 DLC totally saved me 160 MSP, I know it's not much, but thanks! I know I would've been really pissed if I'd bought it and found out that I needed to re-buy it from the in-game merchant after every death. Also, I'm really anxious to hear about where Ship's going on his new press junket adventure.

Oh, and Cheapy, your singing voice had me amazed, seriously, record deal, get one.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Meanwhile, after we finished recording, I got a PM from a CAG who just bought a new black Wii. He has over $1000 in downloads that he can't transfer over.[/QUOTE]

And you clearly missed the part where I said 'link it to your Club Nintendo account'. When I had my Wii repaired, I had my stuff linked to it, and that's why I was able to transfer my downloads over to it. Since he's spent over $100 on downloads, he would probably qualify for the special treatment you were discussing.

But I'll mention this again: This problem has been known about for over 2 years, and you only now discuss it?
 
[quote name='MARS one']cheapy, i think the fact that you dont buy used games or that none of you guys on the cagcast are really big sports games guys is affecting your views on this whole online pass matter. i honestly felt the same as you do, because it doesnt really affect me too much but i read a comment on destructoid that turned me around completely. the comment was in reply to how game companies have to make up the money lost from used games somehow



what do you think?[/QUOTE]

Actually, when talking about Used games versus other media formats and even items, it's a stupid comparison. Yeah, I said it. It's a stupid, stupid, stupid comparison. To make such a comparison just shows someone who makes it has NO CLUE what they are talking about. Other media formats are not comparable. Allow me to explain.

When was the last time you went into a Best Buy and saw an N64 game for $85? Chances are, we're talking at LEAST 10 years ago. Now consider this, if I were to buy a copy of Gravity Kills self-titled album in that very same Best Buy, it would be the exact same price as when it converted to CD. When was that? Roughly a year before the first Mortal Kombat Movie, making this a 17 year old album that's stayed at it's exact same price all that time. Starting to see the fallacy of this argument?

Let's look at books since that's another popular outlet. Why are used book stores so popular? Well, aside from the fact that they aren't, most of what you find in a used book store is often things out of print. Book publishers actively control the availability of product through retail chains by issuing recalls and even destroying unsold stock (thus the warning in front of every book, you should never pay for a book without a cover since the cover is how stores get reimbursed for the books they throw out). Because of this, a vast majority of the books rarely get reprinted. Meanwhile, publishers would spend more to make 100 books to fulfill demand than if they just let the free market fulfill the need. The book business in general is specifically designed to bleed money out every orafice until that one hits. The theory is then as the blood rushes back in through that one hole, it will hopefully make up for the blood loss everywhere else.

I could go on but really, I just shot to **** two of the biggest arguments. Essentially this is why the used game market is such a damaging blow to the games industry. Unlike any other media, games only get one shot to make their money back. After all, until we start tuning into Halo Reach on TBS, their only shot at making money is first hand sales. Which is why any comparisons are stupid.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']
However, the bottom line is this:

I can't recall a single piece of DLC or DLC related tech that makes me glad the system was ever implemented.[/QUOTE]
You ever get Big Surf Island? It was overpriced, but after getting 100% in Burnout Paradise, I was almost glad the system was in place. Almost.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']And you clearly missed the part where I said 'link it to your Club Nintendo account'. When I had my Wii repaired, I had my stuff linked to it, and that's why I was able to transfer my downloads over to it. Since he's spent over $100 on downloads, he would probably qualify for the special treatment you were discussing.

But I'll mention this again: This problem has been known about for over 2 years, and you only now discuss it?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the problem has been known about for 2 years. The CAGcast crew knows that. However, this is the first time a new version of the Wii has come out where people might want to make a change and get a new Black Wii. This means we get emails, this means it gets talked about, and this makes it relevant NOW. Now I know you know your stuff KingBroly, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone pays as close attention to details such as how DRM works on Nintendo systems.
 
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One possible solution for game developers to combat the used game market is lower prices at release.

I only feel a handful of marquee titles are worth $50 or $60 the week they are released. The vast majority of games get a price drop shortly after release. (Ubisoft is infamous for this, I don't know why anyone would buy an Ubisoft title in it's first month.)

Lower prices would likely drive more purchases within the first month. Lower prices also mean that trade-in values are lower -- making it far less appealing to play and trade that game.

I won't buy anything at $60, but a $40 game like Dot Heroes is a no-brainer.
 
Oh my god Cheapy! Your toilet freestyle song at the end of the podcast had me in tears!!! it rivals the "There you go" rap for best CAGcast song.
 
About the DLC thing - I can tell you that the Street Fighter 4 DLC "content" wasn't even content you download at all. The data for the costumes was ALREADY ON THE DISC. I know this because of how the PC version was treated. As soon as the PC version was released, modders were able to replace the first costume with the "alternate" so-called DLC costume (the textures and such were already there, you just had to do a swap!). So what you're essentially paying for is to access that content. The DLC wasn't "lined up" with the release, it was purposely disabled before the game even came out.

What do you guys think of this kind of practice of purposefully including completed content on the final copy of the game but locking you out of it unless you pay extra money for it? Can you even call it DLC when all you're downloading is a "unlock key" to access that content? Sounds kinda low-brow to me.

Btw The toilet song at the end was AWESOME.

Also CheapyD, do you have Red Dead REVOLVER reserved? :D
 
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[quote name='prence']This EA Online Pass thing is absolutely infuriating. As it is, they expect people to spend $60 every year for what is essentially a roster update plus some minor game tweaks. There is not that much of a difference year-to-year between games yet EA doesn't see a problem charging full price for it.[/QUOTE]

Solution: don't buy games like Madden every single year.
 
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