CAGcast #211: Very Controversial

Wow, terrific podcast yet again, guys.

I absolutely loved hearing your opinions on the whole "Used Games Are Evil" subject: it's great to hear well-respected people actually offer a realistic argument on this matter, which is something that not even sites like Penny Arcade can offer up any more. The discussion amongst the three of you was one for the ages, and I really wish that all the other "popular" media outlets would listen to your conclusions, rather than just see things from such a black and white perspective. If publishers all truly have such an "anti-used" stance, then why don't they make more effort to lower the MSRP of games, rather than, say, shoe-horn in crappy multiplayer to try and justify a $60 sale price? Or why not sell the "Collector's Edition" of their titles at $60 and the normal editions at $50, rather than ask $70-$80 for what amounts to pennies worth of plastic? Consumers are generally pretty quick to realize when they're being ripped off (well, other than Halo fans and their cat helmets), so why do publishers keep finding new ways to creep the game prices up and then bitch about people buying used to save money? Sounds like a vicious cycle to me.

Couple quick things:
1) Anyone know what GameStop.com's run of good deals was such a short run? I was hoping to see them do more to compete with Wal*Mart, Amazon, and K*Mart for the Q4 pre-orders. What gives?

2) I'd strongly urge against the sound bar concept if you're looking for ture surround sound: I'm sure they work great in a pre-determined retail layout, but how well is the "sound reflecting" technology going to work in your personal spaces, taking into account both room size and barriers to proper reflectance? If you want an amazing set of small, balanced 5.1 speakers w/o paying Bose prices, check these out: Klipsch HD Theater 1000 5.1 ...combined with an Onkyo HD receiver you're still spending less than if you were just to buy a comparable set of Bose speakers.

3) It amazes me to hear the media's mixed reaction to the sweeping changes seen in Metroid - Other M, especially considering that most of the media felt like the FPS style of the Prime series was getting old. Just goes to show that, no matter what, you can't make people happy if their minds are made up ahead of time.
 
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[quote name='JadedJedi']When discs are gone, there will be no more sales, since the purpose of sales is to move old product out to make room for new product. The games will just be files on a network server and you can just add more space. How many sales has Microsoft had on their games on demand?[/QUOTE]

Are you really that ignorant that you don't know about all the amazing sales on Steam?
 
To touch on the whole thing about fighting as the Taliban in Medal of Honor...

A lot of people say it's too soon, or the fact that it is recent means it's bad and it should be shunned. Well, my grandpa was a POW in a Japanese prison camp during World War II and we play as the Japanese in some WWII games. So how is this any different? Other than the fact that time has limited our ability to appreciate just how grave the situation is.

Killing Americans as the Taliban in Medal of honor is no worse than being the Japanese team and killing the Americans in any WWII title.

[quote name='Curufinwe']Are you really that ignorant that you don't know about all the fuckING AMAZING sales on Steam?[/QUOTE]

Fixed!
 
I'm curious what other people think of the sound bars. I haven't had the opportunity to demo one yet. I have been to a Bose demo room and thought it sounded fine. The problem with Bose to me is that the bass is a little on the weak side. I have a 7.1 system in a dedicated theater in one of my spare bedrooms that I use for movies and console gaming. I understand why people don't want their living rooms to be filled with intrusive electronics and speakers - I crammed it all in a bedroom instead. ;) I bought most of the speakers off of Craigslist and eBay from a series of Acoustic Research speakers built around 2000. I built the sub boxes myself.

Screen is in 16:9 mode (92" diagonal).

K20D5220.jpg
 
As a general rule, I try to buy most of my games new. I can appreciate the developer/publisher getting paid for their work, even if it isn't a top-tier title.

Unfortunately, many new release games aren't worth full retail price to me, so I either wait for the inevitable price drop(s) or buy used if the price is reasonable. (Note to Gamestop: a used game for $2 below the retail price of a new copy is not reasonable.)

Most of the games I buy used are old enough that finding a new copy would be difficult anyway. I don't feel guilty buying older used games. For recent releases, I'll watch for a sale on a new copy rather than risk a scratched disc, worn case or missing manual on a used model for just a few bucks less.
 
Personally, I think G4's attacks on Metroid being "sexist" are just silly. What's ironic is that G4 isn't exactly what I call a classy network in their portrayal of women.

On the subject of used games, I never understood the hostility on the subject matter. People buy/rent used products all the time, such as books, movies, cars, etc. Furthermore, if developers and publishers don't like the way GameStop does business, why does GameStop always get exclusive preorder bonuses?

As for Wombat and Shipwreck's Digital vs. Physical debate, that's a trickier subject. The problem with digital games is that games tend to be larger than the average XBLA title. The thought of downloading a PS3 Blu-Ray to my console sounds like it would be time consuming and frustrating. Also, with Nintendo appealing to the casual market this generation, and Sony & Microsoft trying to match that audience, I'm not convinced casual crowds would be interested in exclusively digital titles.
 
[quote name='AwRy108']
2) I'd strongly urge against the sound bar concept if you're looking for ture surround sound: I'm sure they work great in a pre-determined retail layout, but how well is the "sound reflecting" technology going to work in your personal spaces, taking into account both room size and barriers to proper reflectance? If you want an amazing set of small, balanced 5.1 speakers w/o paying Bose prices, check these out: Klipsch HD Theater 1000 5.1 ...combined with an Onkyo HD receiver you're still spending less than if you were just to buy a comparable set of Bose speakers.
[/QUOTE]

While I'm sure the quality of those speakers and receiver are excellent... they are bulky compared to Bose. The Klipsch satellite speakers are 189.2 cubic inches each while the Bose satellite speakers are 32.9 cubic inches each. That's 5.75 times the volume. The Onkyo receiver is 1758 cubic inches while the Bose receiver is 463 cubic inches. That's 3.8 times the volume.

I'm trying to keep things compact and simple while still sounding good.
 
[quote name='Bezerker']$10 says Wombat says something that makes ppl dislike him.[/QUOTE]


thats easy money lol seriously to say its backwards to own a ps3 before having an hd tv is retarted. i waited to get a ps3 until i could get a bc model at a decent price and then i waited to get an hd tv until i knew more about them and could get one at a decent price.

for someone who loves to haggle over everything they purchase its kinda assanine to throw out a statement like that but its what he does best so hes at least living up to low expectations.

and that shit about laurence fishburne being responsible for his kid being in porn is bs to. shit happens an regardless of what a parent says or does for their kids guess what some kids will do whatever the fuck they want.
the chick even said shes doing it to become famous because unfortunately alot of people have made themselves famous doing that shit. being the father of a daughter yourself you should be careful of how you pass judgement on someone elses parenting skills.

and then youve got cheapy saying the gta stories werent any good but mafia 2 was amazing. he didnt even finish san andreas , which had the best gta story imo, so how can he even begin to judge the game? its obvious the guy cant focus on a game unless its easy enough for him to plow through or its got cheesy shit for him to enjoy.

sr2 was a fun game but that game had one of the worst stories ive ever seen in a game and compared to gta sa is a very shitty game.

man and did you hear the pain in cheapys voice when he had to admit the 3d in motorstorm 2 was fun and worked well but then quickly went on to say its still not worth buying lol.
 
I just wanted to give some helpful tips on the back hair issue. I used to have my girlfriend do it, but that ended long ago. I then did an internet search and found a funny looking product that allows you to do it yourself. You just stick a razor in it and voila. Funny story...I had it hanging in my shower hanging from a hook and when my mom came over to visit, she saw it and asked me what it was. Me being the awkward person that I am, told her that it's a sex toy.

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Razorba-War-H...ef=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1283375891&sr=8-3
 
[quote name='Wombat']no it wasn't[/QUOTE]

From the 45:13 mark:

Wombat: Financially speaking, Best Buy would stop selling consoles if they had no games to sell with them. And if BB, Target, Walmart etc all of a sudden said "we're not selling your consoles anymore, if you don't start releasing some disc based games", then they're not going to sell consoles anymore.

Ship: Well what about ipods then?

Wombat: ahhhhhhh...
=============================

The implication is that without software to supplement them, the margins for selling consoles is so thin that it is not worth it for retailers to sell them.

I don't buy this. Hardware has a much much longer shelf life than software, which in today's market goes in the crapper after the first week unless it is a AAA title.

I agree with your assertion the retail market will always be there. Retailers still reserve some space for CDs and DVDs.

I disagree in the amount of pull you think retailers have on MS and Sony's plans for digital content. They couldn't stop music going digital, they didn't even have the awareness to try. Games are no different.
 
Interest show, though for some reason it seemed that only CheapyD was really interested in it! Anyway, looking forward to the next one!
 
Great episode, duders.

But consider my mind blown at the negative comments about Rockstar's story, dialogue and characters. Obviously liking or disliking Rockstar-made games is a matter of personal preference, but I'm shocked you hold Mafia II in such positive regard by comparison. I enjoyed all of the aforementioned stuff in Mafia II also when I saw it on TV late one night years and years ago. It was called Goodfellas.

I find it surprising that Cheapy doesn't find anything interesting in the production values of the Grand Theft Auto Games, and I suppose by extension Red Dead Redemption. I could spend hours listing all of the clever and satirical jokes, commercials and characters throughout the series. Not to mention the comedic talk radio hosts, the quality soundtracks with actual period appropriate music (a decent number of tracks in Mafia II are completely anachronistic) and so on and so forth. I just feel like Rockstar's games pack an infinitely bigger and more original punch than most open world games, Mafia II included.

With all of that being said, I don't hate Mafia II by any means. It looks gorgeous on the PC and I enjoy the gun combat. I just keep noticing this strange, subtle aversion to Rockstar in the last few months.

Alright, end of rant. I suppose I should brace myself for the incoming Rockstar fanboy accusations. Despite the above paragraphs, 'twas truly a quality episode. An eruption of laughter almost made me spit my soda all over my monitor, caused by Wombat's "fuck you for judging" response to Tycho.
 
Great show, as usual. I just wanted to express my opinion on the whole Xbox Live controversy, especially since I've got a different take on how this affects me as a customer who lives in a U.S. Territory..

I guess I'm still mad at the Xbox Live price hike, but mainly because they're adding features I won't be able to enjoy. I can't watch anything on Hulu since it's region locked (and I'm in Puerto Rico, go figure), and I guess I could care less about ESPN, since I'm not into sports, and it will probably be region locked too. At least the improved audio quality sounds promising, but it's hardly something to get stoked about. We'll see how low and how often those Live cards will be on sale from now on, and if they will be available at the same price range we're used to get them ($30.00-$35.00). Personally, I think they should get rid of Facebook, Last FM, Zune, Twitter, and all that, since it's pretty pointless to have half-assed access to those sites. They could just put a somewhat practical Internet browser on Xbox Live, maybe work on the whole infrastructure of Live (better matchmaking, improved connections), and somehow deal with all the stupidity and nonsense that comes with connecting to their service. I have my privacy settings set to friends only on Xbox Live, and I have a 50-something percent of bad reviews of people accusing me of being overtly aggressive, having a disruptive voice, or whatever, which is funny because I don't even use a mic when I'm not in a party with my friends. I'm pretty sure I;'m going to get banned, or get that Code Of Conduct thing on my profile very soon thanks to all the rage-quitters and dweebs who get mad at you because you're not listening to them while they call you $$$$er/jew/spic/$$$, or because you beat them fair and square at some game. What really sucks is that i would still have to play to use Live because it's the most convenient way to play with my friends when we cannot get together for a few rounds of Super Streets Fighter or whatever game we want to play, and because the silver membership is as useful as a third thumb.

I would gladly pay full price for Xbox Live if I didn't have to deal with my privacy settings because of the assholes who ruin the whole online experience for those of us who just want to have fun. I would be very stoked if i could watch some shitty television show on Hulu without worrying about living in a Third World Country, meaning that I don't have the intellectual capacity to watch enthralling, thought-provoking movies like The Expendables, according to Hulu (and other streaming sites, YouTube included in some occasions), or because everyone who doesn't live in the United States is a pirate or a counterfeiter, as the whole copyright bullshit that appears on every region locked site makes you think. I would be thrilled if having better audio quality over Live didn't meant that I would have to listen to some immature, ignorant, racist piece of shit from who-the-fuck-knows, who's not even old enough to wipe his ass by himself, calling everyone names on Xbox Live to fill the void in his already pointless life.

Yeah, it sucks to be Major Nelson right now, but it is not as bad as having to deal with this price hike and knowing you won't be able to take advantage of the majority of the things featured on Xbox Live.
 
[quote name='ZombieJeebus']From the 45:13 mark:

Wombat: Financially speaking, Best Buy would stop selling consoles if they had no games to sell with them. And if BB, Target, Walmart etc all of a sudden said "we're not selling your consoles anymore, if you don't start releasing some disc based games", then they're not going to sell consoles anymore.

Ship: Well what about ipods then?

Wombat: ahhhhhhh...
=============================
.[/QUOTE]

I missed the part where I said games had a high profit margin, cause I didn't. But games bring people to the store.
 
hey guys great show. I did want to comment on the Live discussion. I know Cheapy was pretty much saying that if you do a little bit of homework, you shouldn't have to pay full price for Live so not really as big of a deal for the CAG community. Thing is, I think what you're referring to is largely an American perspective. Amazon.com = great, Amazon.ca = garbage for deals (main reason why Goomba on the forums does well, and he deserves it).
I'm pretty new to the 360 (my first is the new Slim) and I had a very tough time scrounging for deals on Live. This summer has been pretty brutal with no deals really reaching a mind-blastingly status (some decent ones), so it's not a surprise that Live hasn't been on sale for a while.
Anyways, I just wanted to say good show, and with regards to Live, not all regions have the same options for deals as the States.
 
Wombat, I think you're forgetting about a very important aspect about the digital software only future.
GameStop have already begun preparing for this. Game boxes with just a code inside already exist, and is what will replace the discs, and codes can't be sold back if they're used. This way they still get shelf space, retailers can sell and make a profit on the codes and so forth. You just recently did this at GameStop remember?

Cheers
 
[quote name='Wombat']I missed the part where I said games had a high profit margin, cause I didn't. But games bring people to the store.[/QUOTE]

According to Forbes retailers pull in about $12.00 a disc. (I may be reading this wrong. It might be only a dollar in actual profit.)

Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo make $7.00 per disc. (Also why stores hold sway over MS/Sony/Nintendo, more consoles means more games, which means more licensing fees. Developers will not cut out physical media as long as there is a market to buy it, just like CDs.)


http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_rr_game06_1219expensivegames.html
 
Cheapy, Yamaha is a great brand. My old surround setup was a Yamaha 5.1 setup and the sound is warm and sounds good. If that soundbar sounded great to you, I think you should go for it. You can return it if you're not satisfied, right?

Also, I like Cheapy's idea for ship to ship interactions in ME3. Maybe in addition to space battles, you can do diplomacy or other sidemissions that involve ship to ship combat. Similar to the Star Trek TV shows, I guess.
 
[quote name='mik']Someone should remind Tycho that a person who gets a game for free from the publisher is no different to the developer than a person who pirates the game.[/QUOTE]


Not exactly. They're effectively giving them free promotion. If they had offered to just send Penny Arcade $60 for kind words said, that would be insulting for most outlets. A "free" game though, and suddenly hundreds of thousands of laser-targeted consumers hear about their product.

I agree with Tycho on the used debate, he's not wrong. To the developer, it is the same as piracy. It's not a moral judgment.

I also agree with Wombat in that many times, developers don't benefit directly, as is the case when the entire studio is fired after a game is released.

I think we can all agree that buying new is preferred when possible if you want to show your support. The biggest problem is used sales and piracy within a month of release, since that generally really is a lost sale and lost revenue for publishers and developers. Do what you're going to do, but ultimately keep in mind you're always voting with your dollars, so if you really like a game and want to see more, maybe just buy the greatest hits / platinum hits version when that shows up instead of getting it used, or use goozex. Just don't encourage Gamestop, they make enough money as is.
 
Cheapy, just wanted to say that even though people can get the Live Gold cards for a cheaper price on Amazon and other stores, when the Live Gold is $60, it means the discounts will probably go up $10 as well. For example, I bet Amazon will start charging the Gold subscription card from $40 right now to $50 after the hike goes into effect. It's a lose-lose for all consumers no matter what deals you can find in the future, imo.
 
[quote name='ObiBen']I just want to thank Wombat for saying that buying used games does not make you a bad person. After some comments on the Joystiq Podcast last week I was feeling like scum for even thinking about buying a used game.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. Wombat was very inciteful. I like Joystiq but they are way off on this one. They keep saying that it is just saving $5, but if you have the Edge card, you get 10% more off. In addition, there are plenty of 25% of used games sales that bring the price down even further. I rarely buy full priced games. I looked for intact and clean used games or wait for price drops. If it is not on Amazon with a credit, I will generally not buy it for full price.

Lastly, my 10 year old son got a $25 Gamestop gift card for his birthday. If he didn't have the option to buy used, there would be very little for him to buy. As it turned out, he found a used copy of Spore Hero and is really enjoying it.
 
By the way Cheapy, check Amazon, Dell and Buy.com (if you can get shipping to Japan). All three of them have had the Yamaha soundbars as "deals." Amazon had a Gold Box deal on one that dropped it 50% ($1,600 down to $799 if I remember correctly). I ended up with a cheap Sony in a box soundbar, but it gets the job done for what I need.
 
Why are new games still $60! Its been like 5 years since Xbox 360 hit the streets. You're telling me in 5 years they haven't found ways to make the average game cheaper? Cut corners somewhere and give us a fuckin break.
 
[quote name='Leggo']Not exactly. They're effectively giving them free promotion. If they had offered to just send Penny Arcade $60 for kind words said, that would be insulting for most outlets. A "free" game though, and suddenly hundreds of thousands of laser-targeted consumers hear about their product.
[/quote] I was just being cheeky. I think it's funny to see people who get their games for free criticizing the spending practices of those who don't.
 
Retailers make lots of bank off of Ipod accessories. Thats were all the profit comes in. All those ear buds, cases,protective screens,bling,adapters,recharge stations,alarm stations, ect. Thats were the money is. On a console theres lots of accessories, but in gerneral most people are probably only buying a few at most, but people are always replacing their ear buds.
 
[quote name='mik']I was just being cheeky. I think it's funny to see people who get their games for free criticizing the spending practices of those who don't.[/QUOTE]

Well

1) They do pay for a lot of games for personal use. They don't get most of them free because they don't actually review titles, but I'm sure Publishers like Ubisoft (who they've worked for a lot in the past with commissioned comics) probably give them freebies.

2) They also buy TENS OF THOUSANDS of games for their Child's Play. None of those are used, as far as I know.

3) They're game devs, technically, and as such are entirely within their rights to speak as game devs when they say the used game industry effectively the same as piracy when it comes to them.

Cheek notwithstanding.
 
[quote name='Leggo']Well

1) They do pay for a lot of games for personal use. They don't get most of them free because they don't actually review titles, but I'm sure Publishers like Ubisoft (who they've worked for a lot in the past with commissioned comics) probably give them freebies.[/QUOTE]

Hence PA taking a load of crap when Assassin's Creed got deservedly low scores from some outlets.


I always try to buy games new to support the publisher (and hopefully the developer). The only PS3 game I've bought used since I got my Slim a year ago is RE 5. I bought that used from Gamestop for $22.48 in February so I could buy and play the DLC which cost $14.

I probably would have bought RE 5 Gold new if it had been priced at $40 rather than $50.
 
I guess Womabat hasn’t been in a 7-Eleven recently. The future isn’t flying cars and microchips in the brain, but in little cardboard tags that give you downloadable codes for your games. You don’t need disk based media if you can sell people a scrap of paper with a little design on it. That costs next to nothing to produce, takes up very little shelf space and can be stocked in almost any kind of store: Perfect example, you can buy Xbox Live Arcade games at 7-Eleven. Just like how now you see iTunes gift cards almost everywhere, I wouldn’t be surprised, in 10 years time, to see must disk-based media replaced by download code cards that you redeem online to download your product. It’s not so far fetched. It’s happening even now.
 
One of the worst things to come out of this generation is patches and system updates. I have this weird thing about expecting to be able to put in a game and just play, but instead I often have to wait for 30 minutes to an hour to be able to play. It sucks!

I do not want digital distribution to become the standard for consoles... I really don't want to wait over 2 days to download a next generation Final Fantasy, over a day for Metal Gear Solid 4 or almost 8 hours for Mass Effect... (God damn DSL)
50 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 25 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 7 GBs and 2.046 Mbps http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

If one console is DD only and one supports retail games, I'm buying the one that supports retail games and avoiding the DD console like it's a PSP Go.
 
Good show but really didn't agree to the comments about Rockstars storys... they're usually the best parts of the game.. I mean GTA IV/ TLatD / TBoGT.. all very good stories and in my personal opinion much better than Mafia 2...

However, good show though.. enjoyed it.
 
[quote name='KillerRamen']One of the worst things to come out of this generation is patches and system updates. I have this weird thing about expecting to be able to put in a game and just play, but instead I often have to wait for 30 minutes to an hour to be able to play. It sucks!

I do not want digital distribution to become the standard for consoles... I really don't want to wait over 2 days to download a next generation Final Fantasy, over a day for Metal Gear Solid 4 or almost 8 hours for Mass Effect... (God damn DSL)
50 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 25 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 7 GBs and 2.046 Mbps http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

If one console is DD only and one supports retail games, I'm buying the one that supports retail games and avoiding the DD console like it's a PSP Go.[/QUOTE]


I do love a good box.. and limited edition if I must admit, and the bands I really love... I still buy their CD's... I think there will always be a place for physical formats but DigiDownloads I can see coming up as #1 just as digital singles have completely killed Physical music singles...

If the DigiGames were a ton cheaper and not a rip off like Microsoft's games on demand then maybe I would buy them but you can pick up a copy of Mirrors Edge preowned for like $7... so why pay $20+?
 
Digital game downloads for all games is still far away. Remember, not all parts of the world have decent internet access. A full length game will take an extended period of time to download. Heck, it takes hours on PSN to download games and demos for example.
 
[quote name='KillerRamen']One of the worst things to come out of this generation is patches and system updates. I have this weird thing about expecting to be able to put in a game and just play, but instead I often have to wait for 30 minutes to an hour to be able to play. It sucks![/QUOTE]

Sounds like someone is a PS3 owner. ;)
 
The problem with flying cars is that a crash will always be lethal. It would be a problem for the people walking underneath too.
 
[quote name='PoorRichard']The problem with flying cars is that a crash will always be lethal. It would be a problem for the people walking underneath too.[/QUOTE]

Walking? Can you imagine if a car fell on your roof?
 
I have a clocky alarm clock. It's a true surround sound alarm clock. Mainly because it jumps off your nightstand and rolls around your bed until you hunt it down to turn it off.
 
[quote name='Z_meista']Digital game downloads for all games is still far away. Remember, not all parts of the world have decent internet access. A full length game will take an extended period of time to download. Heck, it takes hours on PSN to download games and demos for example.[/QUOTE]




The parts of the world that consume this stuff have fast enough internet. As you can see we here in America are certainly not the standard. Plus, anyone that buys their PC games digitally download full games already via their connection. We have the resources to do this.
 
as your biggest and probably only fan from Malta, i tend to agree with wombat with regards to the power large retailers have. As you also mentioned during the cagcast large retailers are also a form of marketing for the game developers. That fact further compounds to the retailers power and ability to resist a total digital distribution market.
 
[quote name='dc_fortythree']regarding the topic of MS increasing the yearly subscription price for LIVE i think the point isnt that CAGs dont have to pay full price, its that the final price after any discount applied to MSRP will now be higher. for example if the currnet deal price of a 12 month card is $40, that equates to a 20% discount. applying the same discount to the new price come November the net price has risen to $48. personally i dont have any interest in accessing Netflix streaming, ESPN ocho, or facebook on my 360 so to me im paying more for the same thing, the ability to play online.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the new "features" Microsoft have added either require an additional subscription (Netflix) or are already free (Facebook). I don't care about sports yet here we go again subsidizing the cost of ESPN just like with Cable TV. If Microsoft wants to charge more for these "features" then they need to move to a tiered service, a lower price for gaming only vs. a higher priced for all the other crap.

BTW I'm trying to be a good consumer and vote w/ my wallet. I bought a PS3 last week and let my XBL account expire down to silver.

Also, for a show supposedly based around cheap gaming, Cheapy, Wombat, and Shipwreck are always quick to say "I don't see a problem" with price increases.
 
[quote name='Dzamboni']Retailers make lots of bank off of Ipod accessories. Thats were all the profit comes in. All those ear buds, cases,protective screens,bling,adapters,recharge stations,alarm stations, ect. Thats were the money is. On a console theres lots of accessories, but in gerneral most people are probably only buying a few at most, but people are always replacing their ear buds.[/QUOTE]

+1

Retailers offer all these products to get our asses into the stores. Why would everyone go digital? If stores like Wal-Mart and Target offered non physical ways to sell all of your games, they would cut their own throats by reducing foot traffic in their business.

On another topic, as a family man, I can't buy every new game I want. I have other responsibilities in life and a $60 game is not always reasonable for me. I used to be the type to always buy something day 1 when I could afford to but people who only have to look after their own self can have more disposable income for gaming.

If people were forced to shell out for only NEW games, gaming would never be as popular as it has become.
 
[quote name='RichMeisterMan']

The parts of the world that consume this stuff have fast enough internet. As you can see we here in America are certainly not the standard. Plus, anyone that buys their PC games digitally download full games already via their connection. We have the resources to do this.[/QUOTE]

Yet we still don't have it. Not everyone has access to high-speed internet, even here in the good USA. Besides, isn't it easier to just buy the game at the store, pop the game in your console and play?
 
[quote name='Z_meista']Yet we still don't have it. Not everyone has access to high-speed internet, even here in the good USA. Besides, isn't it easier to just buy the game at the store, pop the game in your console and play?[/QUOTE]

I think we'll see more retail games become downloadable as an option, but I do not understand the persistence of some for digital distribution as a standard. I like owning things, I like sales and I like having a game collection.

If a console were to be dd only, the console maker would have a monopoly over the sale of games on their console (unlike downloadable PC games), so that would only ensure super high prices. If you don't believe me, you have to look no further than Xbox Games on Demand and the PSP Go.

I think developers should try both and let the market decide. I think they will find that more people prefer retail games.
Like Sony did with the PSP Go. :lol:
 
[quote name='Broken Cage']That's Apples and Oranges, just as it was when Shipwreck made the comment. Here is why, there is and never has been a physical media to use with the Ipod.[/QUOTE]

*BZZZZT* Wrong. CD's.
 
Alright. I got a few points to make.

First of all. I have only listened to about the last 4 of these cagcast but I must say, they are great entertainment. Thank you for putting these out every week. I listen to them when I go to the gym and it's like I'm not even working out becasue I am being so entertained. Great stuff.

About Mafia 2. I have to agree with Cheapy on this one. Originally I was going to buy this game, the trailers looked great and I have always been a fan of those GTA-esque titles. I played the demo and I was a little disappointed.

Then I read the reviews and I decided not to buy the game. Instead, I gave the game a rent and although I am still happy I didn't drop $60 on it, I think the game overall is a great experience. I really enjoy the atmosphere and I don't mind the driving. The only thing I have a real problem with is the save system. It's a game that tells a compelling story and does a good job of putting you in that time. I do wish there was more to do but it's a great package as is. I wouldn't buy it but I would certainly tell people to play it.

Now about the whole charging for online thing on used games. I understand the developers want every dime they can get for their product. That's natural. At the same time I have to disagree with that method. Whenever you but any tangible product that has multiple uses, you can sell it. Those companies never see any profit.

If I sell my PC to a friend, Dell doesn't get anything. If I sell my Sean John shirt, Puff Daddy isn't going to bust in door asking for 5 bucks. It's how the market has been forever. I can totally understand why a company would want more money but it's not something I like as a consumer at all. Great points you guys about the possible benefits that used games can offer as well. I really disagree with anyone that looks at the used game market as "evil". Everybody does not find it feasible to buy nothing but new games all the time and not everybody who can afford will feel so inclined. If you are on the fence about a title you want to own, will you pay $60?

Lastly, I want to mention one other point that I NEVER see any sites or magizines talk about when discussing this issue. The whole online codes thing really screws over those gamers who rent games. I think there area lot of people that subscribe to a service like Gamefly or Gamerang where they rent games. I am a huge renter, I maybe purchase 5 games a year and I rent everything else. Renters wont be able to access these features that require codes. It would seem a lot of gamers will be affected by this.
 
Great show, Wombat seemed to be on the right side of every discussion topic. Keep it up.

And Cheapy why all the Rockstar hate?
 
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I used to work in a Walmart electronics department. In an average day, we might sell 30+ games (that number varies wildly of course, based on new releases, sales, holidays, and so many other factors). Since Walmart doesn't sell anything used, all games are priced $20 to $60, with the exception of "budget" titles that pile up on a shelf to the side. The basic math there is $20 x 30 = $600, on an average day, easily exceeding that if customers are picking up newer titles or high profile titles like Halo or Call of Duty. That is the equivalent to selling 2 or 3 consoles minimum per day, when we typically sold only 2 or 3 home consoles per WEEK. For portables, I only recall a single customer purchasing a PSP, and it was a bundle; we'd probably sell a DS or a DSi every other day. I think part of this is that recently (I worked there last year), was due largely to the fact that most people who play games, already have the console(s) of their choice and are merely buying games for said console(s). This late in the generation, the hardware sale is heavily decreased, even with the revised consoles like PS3 Slim, the new 360, and the DSi on shelves, a lot of people are simply happy with their current hardware.

And as for accessories, you typically only need a few accessories unless you break/lose something or have an itch to try something new, but there are always new games coming out. How many controllers do you need for a PS3? Two on average, the console comes with one already. You might need 2 more if you have a 4 player game, but beyond that, you're not likely to buy another one. For portables, accessories are more of a seller... people lose DS styluii and come in looking for PSP screen protectors are the time, but the biggest sellers have always been the games. In fact, for the most part, the most expensive accessories -- special instrument controllers and wireless controllers -- usually top out in the $50 to $60 range, just like games, but how many Rock Band Drumsets are sold compared to copies of, say, Red Dead Redemption? (Note: these are just impromptu examples, I really have no idea how the sales stats compare).
 
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