CAGcast #212: What's a Game Journalist To Do?

[quote name='Akuhei']I think Pachter was right. Game sites all have the same content. Personalities of the journalists are the only
difference between them.[/QUOTE]That's the problem. Most of them don't have personalities. Most do the snarky thing just because that's what Kotaku does. Some of them copy it well (the Games Radar kids), some horribly (Jim Silver from Destructoid). The CAGcast has real personalities. So do the Giant Bomb guys. Major Nelson too. After that, you're looking at vast sea of sites and podcasts that if they went away, no one would notice.
 
Great show guys. Nothing makes a morning of prepping drawings to send to China, so they take our business, go any smoother. Only thing I disagreed with is the statement I believe Cheapy made about people who are big into gaming wanting the newest games. I have many gaming friends and we really play games we can get for cheap and that is about it. Then we pass the games between ourselves. Just my take on the matter. Keep up the great show.
 
[quote name='Iron Past']Hey guys, since I heard Pachter's panel I thought I'd give a couple thoughts. While I don't agree with everything he had to say, I think he's right about the need for actual journalism. Reviews, previews, press events and all that stuff is not journalism, though yes, it is needed. [/QUOTE]


Precisely - that is not journalism a lot of people are interested in. I'm interested in hearing about stuff behind this scenes. For example, I'd read a 'tell-all' book about Duke Nukem Forever's development in a heartbeat.


But besides that fact - how are journalists beholden to game publishers?

That is bullshit - and precisely why Giant Bomb is the only gaming site I give any credibility to (Eurogamer at times as well).
 
Another good show.
I want to comment about a pet peeve of mine CheapyD; The year is 'twenty ten' not 'two thousand ten" based on how we have been pronouncing the years past e.g. the year 1910 is pronounced 'nineteen ten' not 'one thousand nine hundred ten.'
/end silly anal retentive rant.
 
I'm really surprised to see Shipwreck is the more controversial person on Twitter. I think Wombat is more controversial on the podcast and Shipwreck is laidback and calm. Just my opinion.
 
You guys missed Pachter's best comment. He called the Take-Two CEO a "fucking asshole" for calling him out about Mafia II. I'm not sure what he said previously, but I assume it was a prediction saying it wouldn't be profitable.

Also, he asked the crowd "so who all bought Mafia II?" and everyone was dead silent. It was hilarious. Jeff Green and Gary Whitta were great also.
 
Drunk Pachter would be good for the CAGcast.

Once again, Happy Bday Cheapy.

O yea, "Who gives a fux?" XD
 
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I always love when people talk about food they miss it is always the most unhealthy stuff. No one ever says, "Damn, I missed good grilled broccoli" It is always cheesesteaks, pizzas, deserts, mashed potatoes, and all the other high calorie comfort foods.
 
I have to echo the sentiments of a few of the comments in here that I think Pachter is definitely onto something. Everyone covering games is trapped in such a deathgrip by publishers and evil PR machinations, pining for the next insignificant tidbit about a game, that's it's all the same coverage from all the sites. The only thing distinguishing game sites at this point seem to be the personalities of the journalists themselves since no one seems to be willing to do any sort of coverage of the sort that Pachter is talking about, or anything else to put them ahead of their competition.

I think this is why I enjoy Giantbomb so much; all the guys that work there seem awesome, and they seem to be trying to push more unique content. Also, they are willing to refuse putting up "news" about stuff like "Oh look, the new Halo game has RED armor!" or "This FPS game has a laser gun, oh man!" rather than posting every stupid piece of info that publishers drip out to feed the starving masses.

Personally, I would definitely be interested to read about the goings-on of the game industry, or to learn about developers, particularly smaller indie studios (especially since they would most likely to be willing to give a look into what they do). I'm not sure why Cheapy thinks people wouldn't care about such things. As for a more recent example, wouldn't you love to know the whole backstory of how Gearbox ended up being tasked with finishing the development of Duke Nukem Forever?
 
[quote name='beard_of_zeus']

Personally, I would definitely be interested to read about the goings-on of the game industry, or to learn about developers, particularly smaller indie studios (especially since they would most likely to be willing to give a look into what they do). I'm not sure why Cheapy thinks people wouldn't care about such things. As for a more recent example, wouldn't you love to know the whole backstory of how Gearbox ended up being tasked with finishing the development of Duke Nukem Forever?[/QUOTE]

That is why I miss EGM (mostly EGM articles in the early to mid '90's.) because they would cover things like that instead of two paragraph blurbs about x press releases that we get today.
 
Hey guys, another great episode. Though i think your new slogan should be "CAGcast: We table embargo discussions indefinitely." Are you ever going to have this epic discussion, who's legend you've been building up week after week by "tabling" it? I'm expecting the 2nd coming of Christ when this is actually discussed. Thank you.
 
Damn, now I want cheese cake and a cheese steak. Great show. You guys crack me up...no really.

Cheapy Happy day of birth.
 
[quote name='trip1eX']Pachter is right.

Sites need to do something different to stand out. EVerybody posts the same news with the same snarky tone that just gets the more annoying the longer you visit those sites. My message to these guys is that you just aren't that funny every PR News release you regurgitate. It also gets too formulaic.

What I would do is make a site that devotes coverage only to products that are out or coming out in a week or two. Man do I hate to read about products a year out or 2 years out or 6 months out, etc....

What's the point? Everything looks that far out. Yes that means no previews. I'd do more stories about games that are being played rather than games yet to be played.

I would also eliminate all trailers and screenshots that don't show gameplay. I might as well look at porn instead. It has as much to do with the game as those bullshots and cutscenes.

I would review games less as a feature checklist and more as an experience. I might not even do reviews unless I can find more of an angle with them as not sure what I can add except to not turn game reviews into feature checklists.

I would give updated reviews of multiplayer games that get patched as time goes by. I would update on the glitches going on and in general tactics that are going on and whether the game is "broken" or not. I would update on the size of the communities playing the various games. Multiplayer tips from real world players would be good too.

I would interview folks that work on games more as was mentioned in the podcast. I'd interview gamers and what they play. Might be one game they play or might be they play every game. I'd report on their gaming lifestyle. GAming setups. etc. REal world stuff. Not PR crap.

I could go on. But I'm already at the point where I have to kill anybody that reads this. YOu know too much.

Of course I'm not a 15 yr old and that's where Cheapie's counter-argument has some merit. 15 yr olds like to read about games coming out next year and the year after. They have the attention span of Wombat in a room filled with lobsters. They are highly gullible as well. Have little experience how PR works. And don't care because this is fun to read previews even if they are all lies. IT's all new to them. So the audience of many of these sites might not give a crap about how I think a site should be run.[/QUOTE]

do it, I'd read.
 
You guys must have really bad internet. It only take me like 5-10 mins to download and install the ps3 updates. Which is weird because i thought japan is supposed to have crazy internet. What up with that?
 
[quote name='Smallville123']You guys must have really bad internet. It only take me like 5-10 mins to download and install the ps3 updates. Which is weird because i thought japan is supposed to have crazy internet. What up with that?[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure Cheapy didn't say he downloaded the new update...and he's the only one of the three that's in Japan.
 
The thing I enjoy about Dead Rising is about how it IS based on exploration. The main problem with people is they can't "complete" the game. By actually having choices, you don't feel like you have a choice because of the restrictions. I found it to a be refreshing experience compared to 'choices' and fake time limits. You can't please everyone, though. It does have a story, which is why there are multiple endings for your different choices. Heh.

I can imagine why some people DON'T want the Kinect and Move. It's like, you have kids, and they're (mostly) playing on the Wii. It's casual enough for a short attention span. Suddenly you get these motion controllers that can be used with your own system, and your kids get tired of the novelty of the wii, shovelware gets more expensive, and now you don't have a system (or have to buy another one.)
 
[quote name='Smallville123']You guys must have really bad internet. It only take me like 5-10 mins to download and install the ps3 updates. Which is weird because i thought japan is supposed to have crazy internet. What up with that?[/QUOTE]

Wombat's still on AOL. :)
 
The game developer theatre for Randy Pitchford and Gearbox buying Duke Nukem and finishing DNF was really really stupid.

Almost like you had no idea what you were talking about.

He's doing it as a labor of love, why do you care about the specifics? You should be happy a 12 year in development game is finally going to come out and not have some stupid mockery of it. IT DIDNT EVEN MAKE SENSE, IT WASNT FUNNY.

Good show otherwise.
 
I was listening to the CAGCast while driving through Philadelphia today, and I had to stop at Geno's and pick up a cheesesteak after that discussion! yummy! Wish I could ship one to you CheapyD!
 
I don't particularly care for Kingdom Hearts but Shipwrecks statement "they came out every year or so" baffled me.

KH1- 2002
KH Chain of Memories- 2004
KH2- 2006
KH PS2 Remake of KH2 and Chain of Memories- 2008 or something
KH 358/2 - 2009
KH Birth By Sleep - 2010

I see a slight trend but I would barely call that one every year. When Kingdom Hearts reaches Final Fantasy or Call of Duty number status we'll talk.

Haven't played VC2 but I would recommend VC1 due to all the high praise I've heard of it. Probably a better learning curve and the game is out of print I think so it would be good to get it now.
 
[quote name='Skram']I don't particularly care for Kingdom Hearts but Shipwrecks statement "they came out every year or so" baffled me.

KH1- 2002
KH Chain of Memories- 2004
KH2- 2006
KH PS2 Remake of KH2 and Chain of Memories- 2008 or something
KH 358/2 - 2009
KH Birth By Sleep - 2010

I see a slight trend but I would barely call that one every year. When Kingdom Hearts reaches Final Fantasy or Call of Duty number status we'll talk.

Haven't played VC2 but I would recommend VC1 due to all the high praise I've heard of it. Probably a better learning curve and the game is out of print I think so it would be good to get it now.[/QUOTE]

Slight trend?

Kingdom Hearts 1 - 2002
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2006
Kingdom Hearts RE:Chain of Memories - 2008
Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days - 2009
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - 2010
Kingdom Hearts: Re:coded - 2011
Kingdom Hearts 3D - Announced

That's a lot of Kingdom Hearts.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Slight trend?

Kingdom Hearts 1 - 2002
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2006
Kingdom Hearts RE:Chain of Memories - 2008
Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days - 2009
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - 2010
Kingdom Hearts: Re:coded - 2011
Kingdom Hearts 3D - Announced

That's a lot of Kingdom Hearts.[/QUOTE]

Five of those are portable games, one of which is a port of a cell phone game. Also, RE:Chain of Memories was originally a bonus disk for Kingdom Hearts 2: International.

If we include that kind of stuff, then by the end of the year Call of Duty series will have spawned 15 games since 2003. I guess Halo isn't nearly as bad since they've only been able to crank 6 out games since 2001, but that's ok. People enjoy the Halos, Call of Duties, Final Fantasies and even Kingdom Hearts. If there's a demand for these games, you better believe that developers will do their best to oblige.
I don't remember what was said in the CAGCast, so I'm probably off point.

Personally, I just want Kingdom Hearts 3 on my PS3. It's been way too long since we've had a proper Kingdom Hearts. :cry:
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Slight trend?

Kingdom Hearts 1 - 2002
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - 2004
Kingdom Hearts 2 - 2006
Kingdom Hearts RE:Chain of Memories - 2008
Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days - 2009
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep - 2010
Kingdom Hearts: Re:coded - 2011
Kingdom Hearts 3D - Announced

That's a lot of Kingdom Hearts.[/QUOTE]


Question though, did you actually play every single one of them? I could see you playing KH1 and 2 and 358/2 days due to them being more mainstream I guess is the word, but I'm unsure of you playing the others.
Of course this all me just assuming but if you have played majority minus one or so I would kindly take my statement back.

Also I'm unsure how you can see yourself being burnt out for the future games.
I didn't include the ones not released due to push backs and whatnot but the fact they've just been announced doesn't mean we already know everything about em.

P.S. Please don't take this as "Man this guy is a KH Fanboy" :|
 
have you guys seen the stuff that is going on at giantbomb with a membership program
I sure hope you guys wont charge $50 a year like giantbomb.
At least your podcast is now a whole while giantbombs is now 2 parts
 
[quote name='repete']have you guys seen the stuff that is going on at giantbomb with a membership program
I sure hope you guys wont charge $50 a year like giantbomb.
At least your podcast is now a whole while giantbombs is now 2 parts[/QUOTE]

Actually, they went back on that. It's going to be one part and free forever now.

And CAG has a money source where GiantBomb did not
 
Hey Guys,

Do you ever worry you kids will one day listen to your past shows and be totally disgusted with some of the stuff you talk about? Love the show by the way! Thanx!
 
I have been listening to your show since about episode 150 or so. I am not very active on the website, but I appreciate your podcast. Thanks for your discussions, thanks for usually having opinions of games that are based in reality, and thanks for not being afraid to say a game sucks.

Loved the little Duke Nukem Gearbox "financial breakdown".
 
That's it, I'm' calling it. The Wombat who's been on for the past two shows is a skrull. Why else would he stop doing music during the GoDaddy promos, because it's annoying? When has that stopped the real Wombat before?
 
Hi!
First time writing, long time listener:

Love the intro! and it was interesting to listen about the journalism thing, I'm kind of starting to write game reviews for a gaming website in spanish (which is hard to do, since all the terms are in english). Just wanted to congratulate all 3 of you and to say thank you! I will now be a regular on the page so I can discuss and get more familiar with the CAG page!
 
Shipwreck, your ps3 firmware update took 40 minutes?!? Mine took five and it's not like I have blazing fast Internet because I live in the boonies. I haven't had a firmware update take longer than ten minutes in well over a year. Granted ps3 updates are still nowhere near as fast as 360 updates.
 
I just wanted to let Shipwreck know that you're not alone in appreciation of Fluxx. My friend has the Monty Python edition, and it's always a good time.

Also, just wanted to add that I completely agree with your opinions on Dead Rising. Granted, I'm not a fan of timed challenges in general, but I feel that the ones in DR are too much for me to even tolerate. The $5 prequel is good enough for me, as well.
 
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Wombat:

It took a little more than two years of podcast listening but I finally appreciated one of your rambles. Good insight in pointing out that how much Duke Nukem cost to make so far is irrelevant. Rather, it is how much gearbox has to spend (including purchasing the rights) which impacts whether or not they make a profit on the endeavor. One man's loss could very well be another's gain.

Relatedly, I think that Gearbox may envision the amount (and substance) of press coverage this game has gotten already to turn into free advertising. That is, when it is finally released every outlet in the gaming industry will be talking about it. While some people look at reviews before buying games, many just get caught up in the publicity. As a result, I think a lot of people may end up picking this game up for no good reason at all.

Thanks guys.
 
[quote name='horriblehager']40 mins to the down the PS3 Jailbreak update?

What are you running your internet on a modem?

Took 5 mins via verizon fios.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I posted the same thing. 40 minutes?!?

It's actually taking me longer to download the latest Madden update and that still only took 5 minutes.
 
Cheapy while I do agree with your points on game journalism I find that Pachter does make some fairly good arguments as well. I don't visit nearly as many gaming websites as I once did exactly for the reason's Pachter stated, too much homogenized content.

Yes gaming sites do face challenges and maybe they will never reach the same heights as other journlaism sites but I think Michael's point is that they should try harder to differentiate themselves from their competitors. Gaming sites seem to be in a comfort zone and are hesitant to get out.
 
When is Hour of Victory going to be sent? Shipwreck sent it to Wombat right?

I need to attempt to beat that piece of shit!
 
If Cheapy is unavailable for a Cagcast, how about getting Justin McElroy to guest host again?
 
I don't get the RTS comments about Valkyria Chronicles 2 when it's a strategy RPG like Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblem, and all that, but with a third-person shooter shell on it that makes it a lot more user-friendly than the grid-based combat that the genre is known for.

I downloaded and installed the PS3 update in eight minutes and I have a shitty internet connection for this kind of thing, so I have to wonder what's up with Shipwreck's connection to take five times as long.

Pachter hates the CEO of Take Two, not Mafia II. He called out Pachter at an investor meeting for saying Mafia II wouldn't be profitable, so Pachter called him an asshole during the Giant Bomb panel at PAX.

The 4GB Kinect bundle is also $50 off compared to buying the system and Kinect separately.

Good show.
 
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