CAGcast #325: One Is the Loneliest Number

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]The crew discuss the Xbox One reveal and the reaction from the gaming media & community. We also talk Metro Last Light and Fast and the Furious!

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[podcast]235[/podcast]
Download (1 hour 38 minutes) - iTunes
[/preview]




Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro/Outro: Loneliest Number Dubstep Remix - Electric Dreams

Cheapy & Wario watch the Xbox One Reveal


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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.
 
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Oh, man, need to listen to the ONE commentary...

OK... finished. I think the big problem a lot of people had with the MS thing was the contradictory statements put out after the fact about used games, always online, etc. You guys touched on that a bit, but I think deemphasized it overall in terms of explaining the net rage. Either Wombat is right and they threw it out there to gauge the reaction to those things or they have already decided to go with the more restrictive options and are trying to downplay it by not answering the issue directly. Maybe they are now madly redesigning those aspects and will come out at E3 and announce there are no restrictions ;).

Regardless of what they are up to, they should have put forward a more unified response than they did. But let's face it, by not flat out denying the used game and always (or even daily, hourly, whatever) online rumors, that confirmed everyone's worst fears. So it does seem like they are leaning that direction, although plans could still be up in the air and hopefully they take some of the negative reaction to heart and if there is time change that stuff they will do so.

However, I think it is an entirely reasonable scenario that MS goes with the used game restriction and Sony does not. I don't think they both have to go one way or the other. You guys touched on the reason - if the majority of sales are to people interested in Madden and Call of Duty and those people have always been Xbox customers, I think they might grumble a bit over the used game issue, but buy the ONE regardless. And maybe MS banked on wowing everyone else with all the other features such that they would live with the restrictions.
 
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Like the sensible discussion, and they should have asked you guys for sure what to do after the event. Also, "Xbox Youporn," I hope that works for you Cheapy.
 
I was disappointed with the conference. Even if you guys mention it was a HARDWARE conference, this is a GAMING machine we are talking about. Most gaming enthusiasts are interested in seeing what it can do for their GAMING experience, and for MS to de-emphasize that in favor of TV and Sports, is ultimately disappointing. I had a feeling of "more of the same" from the Sony reveal, but at least there was a huge gaming presence, even welcoming the indie movement to PS4 via Jonathan Blow. MS is giving us cars, COD and sports. I guess I am not the dudebro target audience.

Also, remember, consoles are a worldwide thing. As a non-american, I can let you guess how many shits I give about Fantasy Football, NFL and TV services such as Netflix that do not work outside the US. If they continue on this path, ONE will do abysmally outside the US.
 
People are mad about the X1 (or I'm mad at least) because it's so anti-consumer.

Mandatory online will automatically cut out some of the market. I have a pretty good, constant connection but that doesn't mean I want to use it to phone home to MS every day or every time I want to play a new game. Assuming Sony doesn't force this, that alone is enough for me to choose PS4 over X1.

As for buying/selling used games and such, I expect to be able to do all that just like I have for the last 25 years. They can spin shit all they want, in the end it's just more anti consumer bullshit for them to get more money out of you. I don't want to pay $60 for permission from MS to use a license. I want to pay for a game that I then own and can do whatever I want with.

Also I don't care about integrating with live TV and the whole focus on a complete entertainment experience. It won't work for shit anyway because things like that never do, and even if it does work as promised, cable TV is on the way out and people aren't going to use it. Especially when you'll have to pay for the Xbox and the Gold sub and the sub to every other service imaginable on top of all that. Yet they used half their presentation to tell me about this and shit like plastering IE or Skype or Halo shows over top of my game screen! No thanks.

I was half expecting them to announce a new program called OW My Balls! from Michael Bay. It seems to be the market they're going after and I'm sure it'd be a big hit with the target audience.

I have a bad feeling you're right and Sony may do the same thing with used games and if they do I think/hope it'll end badly for the entire industry. Maybe it needs a reboot. The consumer should not be forced to connect to them, they should be reaching out and connecting with us, the gamers.
 
Unless Microsoft has lost their minds, I'm sure they know how they are rolling this out. They have spent a ton of time and money trying to get their system to be an all-in-one unit that people want to buy......so of course they will tout these features.

With that said, I'm sure they know they can't piss off the hardcore gamer in the end as thats a big segment of your $$$$$.

This is America and people overreact about everything, so this is just the next ting for people to get emotional about.
 
I don't care about always online or blocking used sales. My internet is stable and I usually buy new.

What I don't like is MS's evasiveness about the issue. They've been bombed with the same question for 2 days since the announcement, and have no prepared unified response.

How long has XB1 been in development? At least 4 years right? It's coming out in roughly 5 months, they have to have a handle on what it will allow.

At this point it really seems like they don't want to tell us and hope most people will buy it unawares.
 
All that being said- if it was the best machine I still would probably buy it. But the PS4 looks to blow it out of the water performance wise. 3rd party games might look close visually because they will build to the lowest common denominator, but they will almost certainly run smoother on PS4.

MS is hiding behind the buzzword of "The Cloud" and hoping most people don't realize that a cloud can't generate graphical data for a game and stream it to your XB1. Well, it could but it would create a ton of lag- that's why OnLive didn't catch on.
 
The problem with the Xbox conference was they waited for weeks after sony's conference and while sony was gathering good will by reaching out to indies MS did nothing, then when MS finnally had thier conference they didn't one up sony in anyway nor did they even target thier message to gamers.
Then post conference instead of leaking something to entice gamers all we got was a bunch of anti-consumer design features.



@ wombat
As far as system power what really matters is the GPU(graphics card).
The PS4 is about 50% more powerful than the XB1 based on the leak specs most of which have been confirmed.
PS4-about 2000 Gflops(rumored)-Ps3 about 400 Gflops PS2 about 6 Gflops
XB1-about 1200 Gflops(rumored)-360 about 350 Gflops xbox about 20 Gflops


For comparison cheapy's graphics card has more computational power than the new xbox and PS combined.
A 3000 gflop graphics card can be had for under $300 on sale.

Both systems are basically designed like PCs so they should both be equally easy to develop for unlike last gen.



Any one else find it funny cheapy was mad that MS leaked all their anti-consumer features but not that they want to implement anti-consumer features.
 
^ You know what all those specs mean? What a fanboy!
Seriously though PS4 is more powerful on paper plain and simple. How that will translate to the games remains to be seen.

[quote name='testudo']Quote of the cast: "Xbox bing yourself"[/QUOTE]

Not from the podcast but my favorite to come out of the reveal is Xbox Go Home, You're Drunk!
 
I thought all of the TV, Kinect and Snap stuff they showed was great btw. But I still know too little about how it works irl and what subscriptions are going to be involved.
 
Here's my guesses on pricing:

Sony PS4 = $499.99
Uno= $399.99

Uno will also partner with cable companies where if you agree to a 3-year expensive cable package + Xbox Live you get the system for $199.99

Things are going too good for Sony right now, they need to blow it with their pricing.
 
Also just some quick things from the show that as far as I know weren't correct or weren't known. Or maybe I'm wrong because I'm not going to go back and double check...but anyway as far as I know:

- X1 controller will use AA batteries
- Cheapy talked about how big the box is. I saw something that said about 11.6 inches in length which is comparable to the original PS3 Slim, or about an inch longer than the Xbox 360 Slim. I dont know about the other dimensions though.
- Someone said the external hard drive will be able to store everything that the internal drive can
 
If one company does prevent used games while the other doesn't (which I don't believe will happen), you can bet the company that does it will be getting some exclusive 3rd party games.

Publishers have been complaining too long and too hard about used games for it to not go unaddressed by the next generation of consoles.

Personally, I think both companies will restrict used games. Sony won't restrict their own first party games to keep gamer goodwill (they already said that). They will blame the publishers for forcing it on them.
 
I agree both systems will likely have similar used game policies. MS really blew it by letting internet speculation get away from them.

If their 300,000 server cloud is so amazing that it makes their online/used game policies worth it, they need to start telling us what it can do.
 
The fee for used games thing is because of Microsoft's new feature that lets you install the whole game and play it without putting in your disc every time. In an interview I listened to, a Microsoft guy explained that with that install feature and if they didn't have a fee or something, someone could just pass games around and all their friends could install it.

So if Sony isn't doing that install thing, then I definitely think they could be the console that allows used games without a fee.

Also, I knew they weren't going to be showing a lot of games, BUT, I did expect at least SOME of their new features to have something to do with gaming in some way...

Most of Sony's new features had to do with playing games faster, like being able to play games while they're downloading, instant demos,etc. And the streaming stuff is a big thing right now also.

Last thing, as someone that plays a ton of fantasy sports, that feature doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all because I have a laptop.
 
Listening to the 'cast now...

re: NFL/sports stuff for XB1

It was revealed yesterday that MS is paying the NFL 400 million over FIVE years. 80 mill a year....yeah that stuff isn't gonna be free.
 
It's been confirmed that the headset will NOT be included. It'll be sold separately. They want you to use the Kinect out of the box.
 
[quote name='LiK']It's been confirmed that the headset will NOT be included. It'll be sold separately. They want you to use the Kinect out of the box.[/QUOTE]

wow, that's nuts
 
Where's my pill that allows me to forget the entire unveiling and go back to the dreams I had for the nextbox?

Yes cable tv channels don't switch that fast. They also showed off live ESPN showing a game or showing highlights of a basketball game from at least 5 days before the unveiling. NOt to mention who watches live tv anymore anyway?

Fantasy Football on your tv screen won't take off. For many reasons. Box connected to cable box has been done in past and is a pain. $400 isn't going to entice the non-gamer crowd to get it for FF. Phones are more convenient for checking stats. MS wants you to use it anyway to help control the experience. Your nextbox would be tied to 1 tv. Not portable. If you are watching a game with friends the friends will be annoyed if your stats are popping up all the time. Who wants to shrink the size of the game in order to check your stats? Gesture and voice control? No way. ....a non-gamer will just get a new iPad or iPHone instead won't they? My brothers are into FF too and don't play games. I don't see them getting this. Too much effort to get the tech up and running. Connecting not only 2 boxes via HDMI and/or IR blasters, learning voice and gesture control, setting up the Kinect camera, having the huge second box (i hope the power supply is built-in,) and wiring the Kinect camera thing and touching a game controller etc etc. All for Fantasy Football? Not going to happen.

PS4 is more powerful from the looks of it. And the PS4 power is actually exploitable this time around unlike last time around. But both are in the same ballpark. And games often are made with the lowest common denominator in mind.

MS just didn't make the case for using your tv screen to do these side tasks. They didn't seem to ponder the question on whether this stuff is better suited to your phone or tablet or not.

I'd be alot more excited about the tv features if I didn't need a second box (so would America) and if I could timeshift tv. And why not just make it a pc too?

But the conference was as expected. A 1 hour bullshot affair. It was like talking to a used car salesman for an hour and then having to wait 6 months to test drive the most awesome, best ever, tv and sports playing, camera-equipped, voice-controlled car that just might also go from point a to point b.
 
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I love how people can determine anything out of 2 conferences by the way, how do people formulate such firm opinions based on anything yet?

In the end, I will own both.......the only thing I wont do is buy both at launch. If there are no significant GAMES early on, I will own an Xbox for the non-gaming features it has. I figure having a backlog of a bazillion games affords me the luxury of waiting a bit too if there is nothing amazing to play right away.
 
[quote name='Wombat']wow, that's nuts[/QUOTE]


AND... all current headsets won't work since it's a proprietary new plug.
 
The no used games thing is just a variable price increase. How large depends on your previous game buying habits. For anyone in the habit of buying a $60 game and then reselling it in time to get $30 back, it's a 100% price increase. Caveat being you still have the game. You can do the math for various pricepoints and resale values. If you always bought new and never traded in a game then no price increase.

I'm philosophical about it. IF they feel like they have to do it then they probably have to do it. Just adapt. I'm already used to it on the pc . I don't think a single game I've bought the past few years isn't tied to an account. It just makes you more discerning about your game purchases.

If there is a used games market then it will be 100% controlled by MS. No open market for used games. Probably the same dealio on the PS4 side. IF they involve retailers maybe you will get a discount on your next game purchase while an outfit (retailer) like Gamestop will be able to generate a new code for the used disc/case/manual.
 
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[quote name='Wombat']wow, that's nuts[/QUOTE]

Actually, I don't mind it all. I always use really nice headset/headphones (Turtle Beach) when playing games that require talking or teamwork. My kids aren't old enough to join me in Battlefield/Halo/COD.

Interesting decision though. To me the problem with this decision it is not Kinect picking up my voice. I think that could work. I see the problem as not wanting the swearing/racism/sexism to come out my speakers for all to hear.
 
[quote name='Wombat']wow, that's nuts[/QUOTE]

Just use your old headset. The port on the bottom controller hasn't cha... oh wait, it has.

20130514-XBOX-ONE-003-660x440.jpg
 
Show 325 Notes:

3:30 Watch This
3:30 - Star Trek Into Darkness
7:00 Show Feedback
7:00 - Penny Arcade kickstarter
11:15 Xbox One announcement
13:30 - Social media during the announcement
18:00 - Confusion / used games
33:15 - Hard drive
36:15 - Name
39:15 - Design
40:00 - Controller
42:00 - Kinect
45:00 - Single solution to everything philosophy
48:45 - Fantasy sports
1:03:45 - Backwards Compatibility is backwards
1:11:00 New Releases
1:11:00 - Resident Evil Revelations
1:14:30 - Fast & Furious Showdown
1:17:30 - Call of Juarez: Gunslinger
1:19:00 - Metro Last Light
1:28:35 Nintendo's cash grab on user videos
1:30:30 Cagbag
1:30:30 - PS4 games vs XB1 media capabilities
1:32:30 - Top Analyst prices
 
[quote name='clatu6']Actually, I don't mind it all. I always use really nice headset/headphones (Turtle Beach) when playing games that require talking or teamwork. My kids aren't old enough to join me in Battlefield/Halo/COD.

Interesting decision though. To me the problem with this decision it is not Kinect picking up my voice. I think that could work. I see the problem as not wanting the swearing/racism/sexism to come out my speakers for all to hear.[/QUOTE]

Your TB/Tritton/Astro won't work on the XB1. See the pic below your post.
 
[quote name='lorne']Mandatory Kinect would be a deal breaker for me personally.[/QUOTE]

It already is then. System won't boot w/o it being connected.
 
[quote name='clatu6']Personally, I think both companies will restrict used games. Sony won't restrict their own first party games to keep gamer goodwill (they already said that). They will blame the publishers for forcing it on them.[/QUOTE]

I agree, this is what will happen. It explains the weird statements from both Sony and MS.
 
Cheapy you can turn on private browsing in the settings for your ipad if you need to get your pr0n on btw. Turn it off when you're, ahem, done.
 
Amazing podcast, CAG!! I loved your mature approach to the Xbox Reveal show. Thank you.

Joystiq's "Super" Podcast from the Xbox Reveal was incredibly awful.
 
Mad props to Cheapy for not jumping on the "Xbox One is the worst thing to happen in the world" bandwagon. People should at least wait to see the final decision on used games from both manufacturers before hailing Sony as the savior and declaring that Microsoft is the devil.
 
The "used games" thing isn't even the biggest problem with the DRM for me. I don't buy or sell used games or do rentals. What does bother me about it is needing to activate each game with Microsoft will give them too much control over my games. I do not trust them to be the gatekeeper of my game library when they've already thrown Xbox 360 backwards compatibility out the window.

How long will I still be able to download all of the things I digitally purchased for the 360 when they completely shift focus to the Xbox One? I'm not interested in signing up for this situation just to have it keep repeating itself. If I'm going to use the Steam model, I'll just use Steam.
 
Cheapy, I think you're being too dismissive of the negative response to the presentation. I'm sure you're right that some of it is a snark contest but the presentation brought nothing for many of us. I think this highlight reel makes a good point. http://youtu.be/KbWgUO-Rqcw Are you sure they won't retread this ground at E3?

They didn't even mention the controversial points, it was the conflicting messaging from their twitter, phil harrison, major nelson and whatever they told wired that has amplified all this. They've had months to gauge people's reactions to the no used games and always online rumors and they should have had a coherent message about it if they were going to talk about it now. Instead, it seems like none of them actually know what is happening, get back to us with clarifications? sure.
 
I don't know where you guys got the info that the Xbox One controller doesn't need batteries - it does. Maybe the fact that they said it's internal threw you off, but that just means it doesn't stick out anymore.
http://www.destructoid.com/hands-on-and-up-close-with-the-xbox-one-controller-254236.phtml
I know Cheapy has stated multiple times that he wants the batteries like this, but I'm still fervently against having to use batteries. It's such a hassle and seems really outdated at this point.

I think the Xbox One name is god awful. It's just terrible. I like Sony for sticking to a simple naming convention with numbers and not breaking from it. I honestly think even the Wii U is a better name than Xbox One. And I don't really know what Cheapy was saying - personally, I refer to my PS3 as PS3, not PlayStation.

I was uninterested in the Xbox to begin with, and all of this information has just cemented my apathy towards it. There's no chance I will ever buy this.
 
Props to Cheapyd for mentioning "Electric Dreams", one of the few movies I'm hoping they'll release on DVD someday (or in any digital form).
 
I'm actually excited for the Xbox more for the entertainment factor. I have a gaming PC for a majority of games and I will pick up some to the exclusives. Currently my PS3 is always connected and always on so I could care less about that, and my PS3 basically collects dust besides playing blue-ray movies, netflix and Amazon instant video. Also with the current generation systems the PS3 is more powerful then the Xbox360, and MS seemed to do okay.

I really like the fantasy sports thing, and I'm sure they will have the Sunday ticket available on Xbox. I'm sure the pricing won't change with Sunday ticket. The fantasy football stats will only probably work if your running your league on NFL website. Either way I will just play my normal league and create a league on NFL and draft my team there so my stats pop up on the screen.

It will be nice to see what E3 brings and end all the rumors. Lets see what the next generation of systems brings us.
 
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The way used games work is a huge deal for me - I buy most of my stuff used from GameFly because I don't need to play the newest games right at launch. I also have a few friends that I regularly trade games with to cut down costs (one recent trade was Tomb Raider for Bioshock Infinite). We both get to take our time and play both in succession for 1/2 the price. If they really make you pay full price (or really anything over $15-$20) for a license I will just play a ton less games. I don't understand how they could possibly think that if they block me from paying $10 for something used that all of a sudden I'll be willing to spend $60.

I'm also worried about the "always online" requirement (which is effectively what pinging their servers every 24 hours means). What happens in 10 years when the servers are no longer being maintained? I can't play my games any more? That is insane.

I do not like where the industry is headed at all.
 
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