CAGcast #472: It’s Just Dance

CheapyD

CheapyD

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The gang discusses Nintendo Switch, Bethesda’s review policy, Rez Infinite, and so much more. Cheapy reveals his October surprise!
 
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Show Linkage/Notes:
Intro -   The Moment (feat. DJ Karaoke) Henrik the Artist
Outro - GI Joe Commercial

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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.


 
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Black Mirror is one of my favorite TV shows.

BTW congrats on getting a PS VR. I'm sure your 3DS and Vita will be happy to have a new dust buddy. Seems like Sony should require every PS VR game to have a demo since it seems like people's motion sickness range is everywhere. I would be bummed if I bought a game and I got sick. There is no "Hey this makes me sick" return policy on digital games so demos would be good. That or get some Nyko VR wrist bands.

 
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thorbahn3 said:
Black Mirror is one of my favorite TV shows.

BTW congrats on getting a PS VR. I'm sure your 3DS and Vita will be happy to have a new dust buddy. Seems like Sony should require every PS VR game to have a demo since it seems like people's motion sickness range is everywhere. I would be bummed if I bought a game and I got sick. There is no "Hey this makes me sick" return policy on digital games so demos would be good. That or get some Nyko VR wrist bands.
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I am surprised that Cheapy bought PS VR...but then again, not really. I enjoy the fact that Cheapy justified the purchase by doing it for the CAGcast and to rid himself of guilt.

P.S. If this comment is read on the show, my username is an abbreviation of: slapped your sister. I always feel bad for Wombat trying to decipher the usernames.

 
The switch talk was very strange. I guess you guys have already talked about the rumors and probably read a bunch of reactions on twitter. It definitely is Nintendo consolidating their two software efforts into one. I personally think they are doing a great job so far especially with the messaging which they did a terrible job with the wii u.

 
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I don't understand Shipwreck's complaints about the Switch.
He wants Nintendo to make a console on par with PS4/X1. All the rumours suggest that is exactly what Switch is. And you have the option of getting the Switch Pro controller.

I think Nintendo combining their console and portable development teams is great. Owning 1 Nintendo console over 2 is fine with me.

Also, Pokemon RPGs on home consoles do exist.

 
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Chicken008 said:
I don't understand Shipwreck's complaints about the Switch.
He wants Nintendo to make a console on par with PS4/X1. All the rumours suggest that is exactly what Switch is. And you have the option of getting the Switch Pro controller.

I think Nintendo combining their console and portable development teams is great. Owning 1 Nintendo console over 2 is fine with me.

Also, Pokemon RPGs on home consoles do exist.
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You're kidding yourself if you think this is going to be as powerful as the other consoles AND portable AND affordable. You simply can't be all those things.
 
I partially agree with Wombat's assessment of Gods of Egypt. I found it to be an enjoyable enough movie... in 3D. The 3D effects were pretty good so it made the movie more watchable. The action was OK too. The story was lame and disjointed, the visual effects/CGI were borderline awful, and it was a bit too long. One big plus was that it had the actress who plays Electra from Daredevil :twisted: .

I don't think I'd ever watch this movie in 2D though!

 
shipwreck said:
You're kidding yourself if you think this is going to be as powerful as the other consoles AND portable AND affordable. You simply can't be all those things.
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Reminds me of that Business 101 lesson of the Product Management Triangle. Quality, fast, or cheap. You can only pick two.

 
I listened to the podcast, I enjoyed the talk about the Switch. Here are my thoughts on the Switch:

If Nintendo can hit $299 or less even if its just the lessor skew, I think they will be doing okay with it. I think it is a great time for them to be releasing a console like this. Right now you have Microsoft and Sony releasing updated consoles of the same console they released 3 years ago. For people like me that don't have a 4K TV, I have no incentive to hurry and upgrade to a Scorpio or PS4 Pro since I can get the launch style console for cheap and still play all the games. I personally only have an Xbox One. When I look at the landscape of options, the PS4 has a few exclusives but nothing that I really can't live without. When I look at this Switch ad, I am reminded of my time with the N64 and Gamecube, whereas the WiiU just reminded me of the Wii and I was ready to be done with the Wii.

If for only $299 I can bring Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and other Nintendo titles to my 1080P TV next year, that seems like a much better bargain than a PS4 Pro or Scorpio for slightly upgraded visuals but not really a different catalog of games.

With this console I think Nintendo is positioning themselves to be a perfect 2nd console in your home. Most gamers I know from work and other places have upgraded to either of PS4 or Xbox One by now and so this new Nintendo console that you can just play with a regular controller is interesting to them.

If we see a $299 launch price with the Zelda cross over available, a 3D Mario game, a Mario Kart, and a Pokemon game, I think these systems will move off of shelves pretty quickly. If they price it at $349 or $399, I think it starts to be a tougher sell. I know for me personally, $299, I can get my wife on board, we have 3 very young sons and I think she would rather they play on a Nintendo than an Xbox due to the content of a lot of the popular Xbox games. At $349 I could probably talk her into it, but at $399, she won't go for it.

I think Nintendo can get away with a weaker system, that has HD graphics, portability and a $299 price point and still sell a lot of these. These are not going to be on par with current Xbox One's or PS4's but I think Nintendo stands a better chance being the "Hey you got an old Xbox One launch system for $200 this Christmas with 5 games, why not come get this brand new Nintendo system with our games to add to your collection for only $299?"

 
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I bought a PSVR and ended up returning it.  It gave me a headache.  It gave my kids a headache.  Tech is cool.  Games were nothing to write home about.  OVerall I just kind of found it annoying.  I didn't want to put a helmet on.  I didn't like all the cords.  I didn't like putting the game controller down and grabbing the Move controllers.  I wasn't in the mood to beta test.  If they ever make the tech super smooth and as relaxing as watching a regular tv screen then I'm sure it will become  a thing in the future.  But right now,  meh.  It's like 3d on the 3ds.  It was cool, but I turned it off after awhile because it was more relaxing on the eyes.

I think the Switch has a chance to become  a home  for  the back catalog ports/remasters of western AAA developers.   IT seems like the Switch is a more powerful handheld than Nintendo has made in the past relatively speaking.  It has what seems like full sized traditional game controls.  Nintendo has always had great success remastering/porting old console games to handheld.  

I think Nintendo could pitch the Switch as that handheld platform for AAA 3rd party developers.  That's the difference compared to the Wii U.  Wii U was only a console so it was an expensive 360/PS3 that everyone already had anyway.  And then it was a slower, not really any cheaper PS4/X1.  But now their console is a faster handheld for AAA games than the competition's.   So there's a little opening for Nintendo there.  Not much because Sony hasn't had any success in that space, but the door will be slightly more ajar than in the past. 

Also, what's going for this line of thinking is that there is more of a trend lately of doing things on the go.   Laptops did it 10 years ago when they finally started outselling desktops.   They became good enough powerwise.  Obviously now we have phones and tablets that are replacing even laptops for many tasks because they are good enough.  They obviously became the replacement for on the go gaming for the more casual part of Nintendo's audience.  Oh and  many young people watch a lot of tv on their portable devices.  Not on a big screen.  I read this is even more true in Japan.  

I could see  this trend spreading to the western AAA game space soon enough as graphics become good enough.  The leap in graphics every gen is diminishing returns.  It costs much more for much less improvement.  At some point the ability to take your game off your tv and play it anywhere probably will trump having the best graphics.  This all might not happen for awhile, but the Switch is positioned for that type of change if it does happen.  In Japan, the PS4 is not doing great, and it is supposedly because young people do not own tvs. 

I have to agree that this is a 3ds replacement as well as a Wii U replacement.  Nintendo says it isn't but they always say that.   They say that when the upcoming platform isn't a direct sequel to the old platform.  They also say things like that in case it fails and  because they still want to sell the old platform in the meantime until the new one launches and gets established.  They said the same thing when the DS was announced.  They said it wasn't a replacement for the Gameboy.  

Oh and the best thing about the Switch is that it will get all of Nintendo's games.  I really think, no matter what other gimmick they show in January, the biggest feature is the Switch gives you access to all of Nintendo's output.  You no longer have to own 2 platforms to get all their games.  And really the biggest plus of the hybrid isn't that it lets you also play your console games on the go, but it lets you choose where you want to play your games.  If you want to stick with handheld then you never have to touch a TV.  And vice versa.   At least I always wished I could play some of their handheld games on the tv instead of on the small screen. 

 
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It's weird how all three of you think PSVR is in direct competition with not only a console, but a console that comes out a year from now. I think it's pretty safe to say people won't be at a store trying to decide between a PSVR or a Scorpio. 

 
Wombat, I hope you have to read this on the next podcast and have to say these words aloud:

"I am a cheap ass, and proud of it!"

Embrace your CAG and own the fact that you love freebies. You love freebies. We love freebies. That's why we are all proud CAG devotees. Even though I love to hear Cheapy and Shipwreck take friendly jabs at you for trying to get free review copies, it's time to defuse their argument and say, "Darn right I asked for a code! What of it?"

So for every CAG who had to convince some manager to drop the price by $10 to match a competitor, for every CAG who spent thirty minutes to explain to a Best Buy employee how to properly process "Gamer's Club Unlocked," or for any CAG who set the alarm extra early to get online deals the moment they went live, declare your cheapness and embrace your inner-cheap-ass!

ps - I think your Nintendo Switch analysis was brilliant (by targeting Wii nostalgia). Older gamers like myself are going to clamor over the NES RETRO CONSOLE coming out soon. 

 
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As someone who was 15 when the Wii came out and got one on launch, I will soon be turning 25 I feel like I am the demographic Wombat is talking about. I agree with Shipwreck that the price point is really important to me. At $200 I'll buy one at launch, anything more than $250 and I'll probably be waiting at least a year. I don't really care for portability but I can't wait to play the newest Mario, Zelda, and Smash Brothers games.
 
 Aren't the whole point of review copies for review purposes? I get trying to save money and get deals but asking for a review copy just to get it for free seems kind of gross to me. Just my two cents

 
I liked your Switch discussion. . .  you were skeptical without coming off as overly-negative. Good show this week.

 
Looks like Sony read your issue of Bullshit Quarterly and let Elite controllers be created.  Well Done. 

Also, thanks for the WestWorld recommendation, i never would have watched it otherwise. 

 
Here's why I think Nintendo decided to use young adults in the switch ad: they're trying to sell the console to everyone.

Most toy ads aimed at children seem to feature somewhat older children, to make the toys seem cooler.  This is why you have teenagers on Nerf weapon packaging, and why Seventeen magazine has always been aimed at adolescent girls.  So, the answer is that you put teens, right?  Except you also want to sell to teens, and teens have hypersensitive bullshit radar when people try the old "how do you do, fellow kids?" routine.  Also, most adults don't want things aimed at small kids and/or teens.  So, the next age up is attractive, urbane young adults.  Kids understand the impulse to play Mario Kart in the back seat of a van, teens can aspire to be independent young adults who can play Mario on a roof, young adults can see aspirational versions of themselves, and the rest of us olds can try vainly to cling to youth.  If they aimed at 30somethings or older, they run the risk of missing the kids, and if they go younger than 20s they run the risk of alienating some segment of kids and most of the adults of all ages.

tl;dr Nintendo used 20somethings as a clever triangulation to maximize response across all age groups.

 
Cheapy and Ship always shatting on Wombat from their hoytie toytie Tenpenny Tower's.  Wombat keep trying to get your free games, haters gonna hate.

 
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Ship, at least Subaru is in Forza.  Volkswagen is nowhere to be found.  I really wanted a drive around a Touareg in the outback.  

 
I really enjoyed your discussion on the Switch.  I think the reason you did not see any kids in the video is that Nintendo already has that market sewn up.  How many kids do you see with a PSP or Vita as opposed to a DS?  Second I think kids are interested in the console by showing it with older kids or young adults, people they naturally admire or strive to emulate.  Such as older siblings or older cousins and such.  Third I think Nintendo is trying hard to shed the image of it is a kiddy console or just for kids an trying to move in on that market or young adults and older adults who have historically went for more of Sony’s handhelds.

I am going to disagree with Shipwreck.  I think the DS is going to go away and this is going to be the portable console and the home console all in one.  If the screen is only 6” long (and I am assuming like all other screens that is measured diagonally) that makes it just a bit bigger than an iPhone Plus and slightly smaller than an iPad mini.  Making it a very portable device.
 

Cheapy is spot on when he says they are going to try to sell the console cheap and then pile on the accessories.  Look for it to come with one controller, and if you want three more you are going to have to buy them all.  Look for Nintendo branded stands so you can put this on the table and play with a regular controller (or in the words of Shipwreck old people controllers) or to be able to play with three other friends.  Nintendo branded stand or mounting system for the car to help keep the kids quiet during long car rides.  Only has a three hour battery life, no problem Nintendo branded battery power to keep the device going for much longer play time.  They will be selling additional docking stations so when your wife or sister is watching the main TV you can dock your Switch on the bedroom TV.  I will bet they even have a Nintendo branded HDMI switch so you can hook up your NES Classic Mini to the same TV as your Switch and Wii U.  It would not even shock me if there is an additional WiFi card add on that has to be purchased.  And in true Nintendo fashion they will release another switch a year to year and half for a device that has an actual 1080p display named the SwitchI or SwitchP.
 

Wombat is spot on with his assessment that they will be able to focus on getting more games out for the system.  Iwata even said so a few years back (https://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-nx-analysis/).  Look for all the Zelda dev teams to start creating Zelda games for the switch except they will release every other year.  My guess is you will see same development model as the Call of Duty series where one dev team worked on Call of Duty Modern Warfare an another dev team working on Call of Duty Black Ops.  I think they will do this with all their big IPs Metroid, Star Fox, Mario Brothers, Smash Brothers, all of them.
 

My prediction will be a really low end product with minimal storage at $200 and one with double the storage or even more at $300.

 
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trip1eX said:
I think the Switch has a chance to become a home for the back catalog ports/remasters of western AAA developers. IT seems like the Switch is a more powerful handheld than Nintendo has made in the past relatively speaking. It has what seems like full sized traditional game controls. Nintendo has always had great success remastering/porting old console games to handheld.
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I think you are spot on there. You are already seeing this with iOS and Android where games like Jade Empire, all the GTA games, Indigo Prophecy and others are being re-released. The only advantage there seems to be that games developed on those platforms always seem to be backward compatiable with every never version of Andriod and iOS that comes out. Where as Nintendo has only went back to the previous gen games.

I think the only real competition they will have is the smart phone or smaller tablet market.

 
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How is no one upset that Cheapy admits that he usually doesn't read the comments? Then what's the point of posting our feedback? Is Wombat the only one that reads these? Does Cheapy pay attention to the site?
 
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Not really. The podcast is like an extra job he's taken on, so I don't take offense that it's not his top priority. I really doubt the podcast helps generate much revenue. Well, maybe some since he does plug a sponsor, but that's been somewhat recent. Also, it's mostly the ramblings of three nerds listened to by a bunch of nerds. He's just sharing his weekly findings and opinions, what else does he owe us?
Wombat is on top of the comments anyway, so...
 
I LOL'd at Cheapy picking up the PSVR despite all of his professed hate of the whole idea of VR.  Frankly, I had him pegged to pick one up right after that CAGCast a while back where he talked about a friend/neighbor expecting Mr. Cheapassgamer.com to already have VR and he had to break the news that he didn't have it.  I imagine that incident quickly made getting VR a higher priority.

Anyway, welcome to the clan of the helmet heads, I'm loving mine so far. Shipwreck, I expect you to pick one up soon as well!

 
Beatles said:
How is no one upset that Cheapy admits that he usually doesn't read the comments? Then what's the point of posting our feedback? Is Wombat the only one that reads these? Does Cheapy pay attention to the site?
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What usually happens is I read one or two comments that really bug me and then I stop reading the comments for a month. Repeat.

 
cityside75 said:
I LOL'd at Cheapy picking up the PSVR despite all of his professed hate of the whole idea of VR. Frankly, I had him pegged to pick one up right after that CAGCast a while back where he talked about a friend/neighbor expecting Mr. Cheapassgamer.com to already have VR and he had to break the news that he didn't have it. I imagine that incident quickly made getting VR a higher priority.

Anyway, welcome to the clan of the helmet heads, I'm loving mine so far. Shipwreck, I expect you to pick one up soon as well!
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OK, clan of the helmet heads is catchy! COTHH!

How happy I was to see that Rez:Infinite, Thumper and Until Dawn: Rush of Blood will be optimized for PS4 PRO. WHEEEEE!

 
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