California gay-marriage ban ruled unconstitutional

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SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional, saying the state could no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman.

In the eagerly awaited opinion likely to be appealed to the state's highest court, San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer said that withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional.

"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.

The judge wrote that the state's historical definition of marriage, by itself, cannot justify the denial of equal protection for gays and lesbians.

"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," Kramer wrote.

Kramer ruled in lawsuits brought by the city of San Francisco and a dozen same-sex couples last March. The suits were brought after the California Supreme Court halted a four-week marriage spree that Mayor Gavin Newsom had initiated in February 2004 when he directed city officials to issue marriage licenses to gays and lesbians in defiance of state law.

The plaintiffs said withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians trespasses on the civil rights all citizens are guaranteed under the California Constitution.

Robert Tyler, an attorney with the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, said the group would appeal Kramer's ruling.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer has said in the past that he expected the matter eventually would have to be settled by the California Supreme Court.

A pair of bills pending before the California Legislature would put a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November ballot. If California voters approve such an amendment, as those in 13 other states did last year, that would put the issue out of the control of lawmakers and the courts. (Full story)

In a hearing in December, Senior Assistant Attorney General Louis Mauro acknowledged that California is "a leader in affording rights" to same-sex couples. But he maintained that the state has a defensible reason for upholding the existing definition of marriage as part of an important tradition.

"State law says there is a fundamental right to marry," he told Kramer. "We concede that. State law also says marriage is a contract between a man and a woman."

But a deputy city attorney, Therese Stewart, criticized "the so-called tradition argument," saying the meaning of marriage has evolved over time. As examples, she cited now-overturned bans on marriage by interracial couples, or laws that treated wives as a husband's property.

Kramer is the fourth trial court judge in recent months to decide that the right to marry and its attendant benefits must be extended to same-sex couples.

Two Washington state judges, ruling last summer in separate cases, held that prohibiting same-sex marriage violates that state's constitution, and on February 4, a judge in Manhattan ruled in favor of five gay couples who had been denied marriage licenses by New York City.

That ruling applies only in the city but could extend statewide if upheld on appeal. Similar cases are pending in trial courts in Connecticut and Maryland.

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Good I am glad the fight goes on in the gay community for equal rights, when they are hated unjustly accross this country. People need to get their noses out of other people's businesses. Everyone knows one day gay marriages will be allowed universal, it just takes time and persistence, and the persecuted will prevail.
 
It often seems the only parts of the u.s. that make me proud are massachusetts and, sometimes, california. Though massachusetts is more advanced in this aspect, being the first and only state that it is fully legal in.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Hey vermont is pretty sweet too.[/quote]

In some aspects, but I can't stand the place. Unless you like cows there's nothing there.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='Ikohn4ever']Hey vermont is pretty sweet too.[/quote]

In some aspects, but I can't stand the place. Unless you like cows there's nothing there.[/quote]

Umm hello maple syrup! :lol:
 
CA fucked everything up last year and this ruling means shit.

I hate CA and I hope they all fall into the ocean because of a landside or earthquake.
 
SF's mayor is the one that fucked everything up last year. There's two things going on in CA that make this irrelevant, the state supreme court is relatively conservative and there's already a state constitutional ammendment in the works banning gay marriage.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']SF's mayor is the one that shaq-fued everything up last year. There's two things going on in CA that make this irrelevant, the state supreme court is relatively conservative and there's already a state constitutional ammendment in the works banning gay marriage.[/quote]

If they really push it it won't be irrelevent, they stand a very good chance if someone can get gay marriage to the supreme court. At this point I'm more suprised by a court ruling against them than for them.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Irrelevant if the sate constitutional ammendment passes. That trumps any decision the court can make. This isn't going to the USSC.[/quote]

One of these will eventually, and most likely they'll win.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Irrelevant if the sate constitutional ammendment passes. That trumps any decision the court can make. This isn't going to the USSC.[/quote]

One of these will eventually, and most likely they'll win.[/quote]



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wake your fucking ass up! If it goes to the Supreme Court in the USA it won't be for quite some time and by then Bush would have filled it with his dumbass regious, "God loving", gay hating, women hating fucking freaks. This was the main reason why I voted for Kerry.
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Irrelevant if the sate constitutional ammendment passes. That trumps any decision the court can make. This isn't going to the USSC.[/quote]

One of these will eventually, and most likely they'll win.[/quote]



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wake your shaq-fuing ass up! If it goes to the Supreme Court in the USA it won't be for quite some time and by then Bush would have filled it with his dumbass regious, "God loving", gay hating, women hating shaq-fuing freaks. This was the main reason why I voted for Kerry.[/quote]

Don't be so sure, look at who reagan appointed, didn't work out the way many conservatives had hoped.
 
[quote name='David85']Reagan had some common sense.

Same can't be said about Bush.[/quote]

But abortion hinges on the definition of human life, there is really nothing in the constitution that can ban same sex marriage.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']But abortion hinges on the definition of human life, there is really nothing in the constitution that can ban same sex marriage.[/quote]

Not yet, but the GOP is working on it.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='alonzomourning23']But abortion hinges on the definition of human life, there is really nothing in the constitution that can ban same sex marriage.[/quote]

Not yet, but the GOP is working on it.[/quote]

The amendment won't pass and bush, along with everyone else, knows it.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='alonzomourning23']But abortion hinges on the definition of human life, there is really nothing in the constitution that can ban same sex marriage.[/quote]

Not yet, but the GOP is working on it.[/quote]

The amendment won't pass and bush, along with everyone else, knows it.[/quote]

What amendment are you taking about?
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='alonzomourning23'][quote name='MrBadExample'][quote name='alonzomourning23']But abortion hinges on the definition of human life, there is really nothing in the constitution that can ban same sex marriage.[/quote]

Not yet, but the GOP is working on it.[/quote]

The amendment won't pass and bush, along with everyone else, knows it.[/quote]

What amendment are you taking about?[/quote]

The constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, I thought that's what badexample meant by "working on it"
 
The saddest thing about this is that this judge disenfranchised and robbed 5 million plus voters of their right to be heard at the ballot. California passed a ballot issue stating that marriage was only between a man and a woman.

Now my understanding is that for something to become a ballot issue in California it has to meet the scrutiny of being constitutional to begin with. This ballot measure passed that test. It was voted on and over 5 million Californians voted in the affirmative.

This is what people mean by activist judges. The will of the people of California, by their own votes, was stolen from them by one judge. One judge disagreed with the constitutionality of a previously constitutional ballot issue and tossed it on its ass.

This has happened on other ballot issues in the state, most notably Prop 187 which limited state services to legal residents, citizens and aliens. Judge found it unconstitutional, threw out the votes of millions and declared the state must pay government services to illegal aliens.

I thank God I don't live in that state.
 
How come they're only "activist" judges when they strike down something you support? It's called Judicial Review and it's part of the checks and balances of our government. If it wasn't for "activist" judges, we'd still have segregation and capital punishment for the retarded.

I couldn't find anything requiring a ballot initiative to be constitutional. How would that be determined without going to court anyway?
 
Here's as good a summary as I could find explaining the ballot initiative process. Basically it goes through the state Attorney General's office and Secretary of State for constitutional testing.

Caininitiative.org Ballot Initiative Process

BTW, Judicial Review isn't Constitutionally mandated either. It's just been de facto standard since 1803, and in most cases abused, the case that established it was Marbury v. Madison. There's nothing in the checks and balances of the Constitution that mandates it.

Judical Review is a red herring that activists have used when they can't win legislatively or are defeated on ballot initiatives.
 
So you're saying segregation should have remained the law of the land until we could get enough votes to overturn it?

Judicial review is necessary to strike down unconstitutional laws and practices regardless of how popular they are.
 
From the PDF you linked:

Eleven states (CO, AR, FL, ID, MS, MT, NE, OR, SD, UT, WA) and the Distric of Columbia require some form of pre-circulation/certification review regarding language, content or constitutionality. However, in all but four of these states, the results of the review are advisory only.

I'm not nitpicking here but it appears that just because a proposition is on the ballot in California, that doesn't mean it has passed any constitutional muster.
 
I know you're not nitpicking. It's vetted by the Attorney Generals office from what I gather, not any court.

Honestly, do you think I'm in favor of segregation? Do you think that I would have been in favor of it until it was defeated legislatively? Just answer that question. It was in violation of the 14th ammendment pure and simple. That being said it didn't need to be dealt with legislatively it was already illegal.
 
No, I don't think you're for segregation. That's why I was using it as an example. There were plenty of segregation laws still on the books well after the 14th ammendment was passed. It took Brown v Board of Education to strike them down as unconstitutional.
 
The main reason for that MBE was that not one state politican anywhere wanted to go against the views of their constituants. No one was going to sit up and be the one that stood up and went to bat for that minority. That includes Presidents, governors, senators and house members at the state and federal levels.

I don't think any of us can accurately know how or why segregation lasted nearly 100 years after the 14th Ammendment passed. I certainly can't speak to politicians of the past and know why they didn't do what was the law of the land.
 
There's a huge difference between standing up to laws that are unconstitutional and laws that are unpopular.

For the love of God I don't know how refusing state social services to illegal aliens, Prop 187, can be interpreted as unconstitutional.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']The saddest thing about this is that this judge disenfranchised and robbed 5 million plus voters of their right to be heard at the ballot. California passed a ballot issue stating that marriage was only between a man and a woman.

Now my understanding is that for something to become a ballot issue in California it has to meet the scrutiny of being constitutional to begin with. This ballot measure passed that test. It was voted on and over 5 million Californians voted in the affirmative.

This is what people mean by activist judges. The will of the people of California, by their own votes, was stolen from them by one judge. One judge disagreed with the constitutionality of a previously constitutional ballot issue and tossed it on its ass.

This has happened on other ballot issues in the state, most notably Prop 187 which limited state services to legal residents, citizens and aliens. Judge found it unconstitutional, threw out the votes of millions and declared the state must pay government services to illegal aliens.

I thank God I don't live in that state.[/quote]

I wonder how many were disenfranchised when women got the vote, or when schools, busses, pools etc. were desegregated. Never trust the majority to care for the minority, they are too bigotted. There's nothing in the consitution that would deny homosexuals the right to marry. Pretty much any civil rights advancement tramples on the opinions of the majority.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']There's a huge difference between standing up to laws that are unconstitutional and laws that are unpopular.

For the love of God I don't know how refusing state social services to illegal aliens, Prop 187, can be interpreted as unconstitutional.[/quote]
I notice that the people who were against Prop 187 are the types who are for gay marriage too.
 
[quote name='jax'][quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']There's a huge difference between standing up to laws that are unconstitutional and laws that are unpopular.

For the love of God I don't know how refusing state social services to illegal aliens, Prop 187, can be interpreted as unconstitutional.[/quote]
I notice that the people who were against Prop 187 are the types who are for gay marriage too.[/quote]

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but my main problem with such measures is they only increase the poverty the children of the family go through. More poverty, more hardship simply increase the isolation, lower education, and, therefore, increase crime and unemployment (though hispanics have very low unemployment rates, I think only white people have a lower rate). Illegal aliens aren't going anywhere, ya might as well do the best you can to coexist. Besides, the people who hire illegals say they are harder working and more reliable than americans, the americans won't stay, or show up, to half the jobs the illegals take. Maybe if we had a better work ethic there wouldn't be as many jobs availabe and, therefore, less illegal aliens coming to the u.s. for them.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but my main problem with such measures is they only increase the poverty the children of the family go through. More poverty, more hardship simply increase the isolation, lower education, and, therefore, increase crime and unemployment (though hispanics have very low unemployment rates, I think only white people have a lower rate). Illegal aliens aren't going anywhere, ya might as well do the best you can to coexist. Besides, the people who hire illegals say they are harder working and more reliable than americans, the americans won't stay, or show up, to half the jobs the illegals take. Maybe if we had a better work ethic there wouldn't be as many jobs availabe and, therefore, less illegal aliens coming to the u.s. for them.[/quote]
People who respond like this to the illegal alien invasion problem usually aren't dealing with them or benefit from them.
 
[quote name='jax'][quote name='alonzomourning23']

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but my main problem with such measures is they only increase the poverty the children of the family go through. More poverty, more hardship simply increase the isolation, lower education, and, therefore, increase crime and unemployment (though hispanics have very low unemployment rates, I think only white people have a lower rate). Illegal aliens aren't going anywhere, ya might as well do the best you can to coexist. Besides, the people who hire illegals say they are harder working and more reliable than americans, the americans won't stay, or show up, to half the jobs the illegals take. Maybe if we had a better work ethic there wouldn't be as many jobs availabe and, therefore, less illegal aliens coming to the u.s. for them.[/quote]
People who respond like this to the illegal alien invasion problem usually aren't dealing with them or benefit from them.[/quote]

I've dealt with them in MA, and I really don't care. They tend to be harder working than americans anyways, and many have had a lot more trouble and poverty in their than we'll ever know. Let them take the job if they can do better, I don't care. They're going to be here anyway, why make it worse? If their education is horrible, if their crime rate is high etc. you are going to have to deal with the result, and then wonder how you can fix the problem when you've been ignoring it for decades. I'm also sure I deal with plenty of them everyday in toronto. It's the most multicultural city in the world, about 50% of the population is foreign born, I'm sure there are a bunch of illegals in there.

Though everyone benefits from them, janitors, agricultural workers, factory workers etc. (I can't say walmart cause I don't shop there, but you probably can) we all benefit from them. Again, you want a legal american doing a half ass job, if they don't quite, or an illegal with more motivation and better performance.
 
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