Canadian Student Opens Fire At Dawson College

Hex

CAGiversary!
Feedback
6 (100%)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html

[quote name='CNN']
MONTREAL, Quebec (CNN) -- The alleged gunman in a Montreal college shooting called himself the "Angel of Death" and said he liked playing a video game based on the Columbine High School massacre in an online profile, media reports said Thursday.
The alleged gunman, identified by Quebec Provincial Police spokesman Jason Jaughir as Kimveer Gill, 25, was killed by police gunfire after a rampage through Dawson College left one woman dead and 19 others injured, six of them critically.
Six of the 19 wounded people are in intensive care on life support at Montreal General Hospital, Dr. Tarek Razek said. Two of those six are in extremely critical condition, he added.
Police were searching for a motive Thursday, but in a profile on the Web site vampirefreaks.com, quoted Thursday by the Toronto Star, Gill writes that he wants to die "like Romeo and Juliet -- or in a hail of gunfire." (Watch witness describe escape from "pale-face" gunman -- 4:03)
One of Gill's postings said he liked to play "Super Columbine Massacre," an Internet-based game that simulated the April 20, 1999, shootings by two students at a Colorado high school that left 13 people dead, The Associated Press reported.
Police recovered three firearms from Gill after the shootings, Jaughir said.
The Montreal Gazette and the French-language Journal de Montreal said Gill, from the Montreal suburb of Laval, had published an online gallery of more than 50 photos depicting himself in various poses, holding a Berretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic rifle and wearing a long black trench coat and combat boots. He liked guns, his postings said.
"His name is Trench. You will come to know him as the Angel of Death," he wrote on his vampirefreaks.com profile, according to the Gazette.
The Journal de Montreal quoted Gill as writing, "Work sucks, school sucks, life sucks... What else can I say? ... Vengeance is coming."
The Star said Gill wrote about hating authority figures, including police and teachers, and high school "jocks" for their bullying.
A version of Gill's Web page shows a tombstone inscribed with his name "Kimveer" and the words "Lived fast died young. Left a mangled corpse,'' the Star reported.
On the vampirefreaks.com site Thursday morning, a search for "Trench" turned up a message from the administrators of the site saying that the user called Trench "has been deleted."
The reason for the deletion was left blank.
Near the home where Gill lived, a neighbor told the AP that Gill was a loner.
"There were never any friends," AP quoted Louise Leykauf as saying. "He kept to himself. He always wore dark clothing."
Montreal Police Chief Yvan Delorme said the shooting began at 12:41 p.m. Wednesday, when two police officers -- responding to an unrelated call -- heard gunfire and spotted a gunman outside the school. The officers followed the gunman into the building, engaging him minutes later in an exchange of fire that killed him.
Police sealed off the 12-acre college campus in the center of the city while students and faculty members streamed into the street and police searched to make sure that only one gunman was on the scene.
Genevieve Beauchemin, a reporter for CTV, quoted students as saying they were eating lunch in the cafeteria when they heard shots, causing a stampede of people fleeing the room.
"We were just sitting in class, and we were listening to the teacher and we heard guns going off," one unnamed student said. "We looked outside and everyone was screaming and crying, and there were people that got shot that were running away. (Watch students flee the scene -- 1:38)
"And then our teacher left, and he came back and said the gunmen were inside and we had to leave."
Another unnamed student said he saw one shooter, describing him as "6-foot, trench coat, punk."
"He looked like a student with a trench coat," the young man said. "... One of my friends got shot. We were crawling away and she got shot. I had to drag her out of there." (Watch witnesses describe escaping through pools of blood -- 3:44)
Another student, Daniel Mightley, 21, said the shooter he saw had a "black mohawk" haircut.
"I saw his face and he had no emotion in his face at all," he said. "He was walking toward us and he was just shooting." (Watch the scene inside the college, captured on a cell phone -- :50)
"The school that I once knew wasn't what it looked like a couple of hours previous," Mightley said on CNN's "American Morning" Thursday. "There was bullet holes all over the place, police officers all over the place -- blood in our cafeteria, ... pools of blood in our cafeteria."
The college has 7,000 day students and 3,000 night students, according to the Dawson College Web site.
Montreal was the scene of another college shooting, almost 17 years ago. Marc Lepine opened fire at Ecole Polytechnique on December 6, 1989, killing 14 women students and wounding 13 other people before killing himself. Lepine left behind a three-page letter blaming feminists for his not being able to get into the school.
AP reported that vampirefreaks.com came up in a murder investigation earlier this year. A a 23-year-old man and a 12-year-old girl accused in a triple murder in Medicine Hat, Alberta, had profiles on the Web site.[/quote]



No doubt this is going to spark debate among Canadians regarding gun control, since the Beretta CX4 carbine he used to kill the student and wound the others is marketed as a hunting and personal defense carbine. Apparently he was also backing a 1911 .45 and 12 ga. shotgun.

CNN incorrectly calls it a rifle, but the CX4 fires 9mm pistol ammunition. Basically a pistol-turned-rifle concept.

With a case like this, as well as with Columbine, I personally believe that the firearm used to commit the crime (Hell, this was Canada, where you need several permits just to have a hunting rifle like his) isn't to blame, but the person behind it. Here's a like to his online journal, people've already discovered it and posted remarks regarding what he did.
 
[quote name='Tiphireth']http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/14/montreal.shooting/index.html





No doubt this is going to spark debate among Canadians regarding gun control, since the Beretta CX4 carbine he used to kill the student and wound the others is marketed as a hunting and personal defense carbine. Apparently he was also backing a 1911 .45 and 12 ga. shotgun.

CNN incorrectly calls it a rifle, but the CX4 fires 9mm pistol ammunition. Basically a pistol-turned-rifle concept.

With a case like this, as well as with Columbine, I personally believe that the firearm used to commit the crime (Hell, this was Canada, where you need several permits just to have a hunting rifle like his) isn't to blame, but the person behind it. Here's a like to his online journal, people've already discovered it and posted remarks regarding what he did.[/QUOTE]

I know you, and I know you don't support gun control laws, so you placing emphasis on the person and not the weapon is predictable.

There's a Bill Hicks bit that he did in Britain, explaining the difference in gun-related fatalities between there and the United States. I wish I could find it online and post it here to save me the trouble of typing. Que sera.

Personally, it should come as no surprise that I support strict gun control legislation. However, I don't think this one event (or any singular event, really, given its status as an anomaly) should influence legislation in one direction or another. Even after yesterday, I am content with Canada's legislation in this area.

I did see an attractive Asian Indian girl (a student at the University) say "fuck" on CNN yesterday, FWIW.

EDIT: You are right, though, that this will spark a debate about gun control laws. Policymakers and legislators are held responsible more for very public singular acts (see: the Montreal shooting) than they are for widespread patterns of crime. I'm sure that the vast majority of people except those well-informed few (I'm not among them) who either support strict gun control laws or their abolition are better informed about this one singular incident than they are about patterns of crime (for instance, the number of accidental shootings per year that result in death for one side, versus the drop in the rape rates of communities who pass conceal and carry laws). Shame that sensationalism guides policy more than reality.
 
I heard about this on MSNBC. They ALREADY had someone on there blaming video games for this. It sounded like Lieberman but I can't be sure because when I was watching I never saw his face or any kind of tag at the bottom of the screen.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']I heard about this on MSNBC. They ALREADY had someone on there blaming video games for this. It sounded like Lieberman but I can't be sure because when I was watching I never saw his face or any kind of tag at the bottom of the screen.[/QUOTE]

droopy.jpg

did he sound like this guy?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I know you, and I know you don't support gun control laws, so you placing emphasis on the person and not the weapon is predictable.

There's a Bill Hicks bit that he did in Britain, explaining the difference in gun-related fatalities between there and the United States. I wish I could find it online and post it here to save me the trouble of typing. Que sera.

Personally, it should come as no surprise that I support strict gun control legislation. However, I don't think this one event (or any singular event, really, given its status as an anomaly) should influence legislation in one direction or another. Even after yesterday, I am content with Canada's legislation in this area.

I did see an attractive Asian Indian girl (a student at the University) say "fuck" on CNN yesterday, FWIW.

EDIT: You are right, though, that this will spark a debate about gun control laws. Policymakers and legislators are held responsible more for very public singular acts (see: the Montreal shooting) than they are for widespread patterns of crime. I'm sure that the vast majority of people except those well-informed few (I'm not among them) who either support strict gun control laws or their abolition are better informed about this one singular incident than they are about patterns of crime (for instance, the number of accidental shootings per year that result in death for one side, versus the drop in the rape rates of communities who pass conceal and carry laws). Shame that sensationalism guides policy more than reality.[/quote]
What I wonder about strict control laws (What sort of system do you support, by the way, a very strict one like Britain, one that is a smidgeon more lax, like Canada's, or that of California's?) is who it'll harm most, and i think that the casual Joe who owns a show and keeps a concealed .38 for the time he gets robbed. I'm sure it's been beaten to death, but it's still my opinion that criminals don't give a fuck about gun laws- they're criminals for that reason in the first place. If Criminal Jack storms into Joe's store with an illegal SIG pistol with the intent to take the cash register's money, and Joe has nothing to defend himself, three things will go down- Jack will take the money, possibly ransack the store, and if he's crazy enough, kill Joe. I say if Joe has a concealed pistol, three things will likely happen- He scares Jack off without any damage to anyone, with the relative assurance that Jack won't rob his store again, the second being while Jack is taking the money, Joe uses his CCW training to apprehend and immobilise Jack so the police can be called, or third, he fires and kills Jack out of self defense. Sort of rambling, I know, but I'm at work. :p

My solution to the problem is, rather than punishing the innocent, responsible gun owners, go after the guilty. Obviously in this case, the kid's dead, but looking back on his history and influences, the problem might be evident there.

Anyway, I need to get back to CAD, but a /k/ommando pretty much summed up what he thinks is going to happen here-

Rampages like this only means a bunch of uninformed mothers will swell up, collect a bunch of signatures, thump their chests at their politicians and more gun restrictions will come from it. Sad thing is if they would devote all this effort to straitening up wayward children, we would have far fewer of these instances.

Mad gunmen dont come out of thin air.

One last thing, sort of OT (my specialty) to Myke- I have to admit I didn't like you very much for a while, mainly because, to me, whenever you posted (although I don't look in the wrestling threads), it sounded like you were still in the VS forum mindset, but with the last few posts you've made, they seem much more cordial and friendly, and that helps me see the logic better than 'you's fuckin' crazy'. Anyway, enough dick sucking, but lately to me, you've cooled off, and I find you much easier to converse with. Take that how you will. :)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
droopy.jpg

did he sound like this guy?[/QUOTE]
:rofl:

Actually, yes he did, that's why I thought it was Lieberman.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']:rofl:

Actually, yes he did, that's why I thought it was Lieberman.[/quote]

:lol:

I wish I could impersonate Droopy's voice so bad.
 
I think it was proven the gun control laws in Britian don't work how they wanted them to a few years back. I believe violent crimes involving guns actually went up in the five years since the introduction of the laws.

Gun control isn't the answer, because the more you restrict something, the more people want it. In case we haven't noticed, criminals don't actually tend to give a shit about laws.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Gun control isn't the answer, because the more you restrict something, the more people want it. In case we haven't noticed, criminals don't actually tend to give a shit about laws.[/quote]
Yeah. Hence why I figure that if education and tests to prove you're a responsible owner, then there's no worry that you're going to go out and plug your neighbor's kid. Not one massacre that I know of was carried out by someone who was a responsible owner. Look at the kid in the OP, he treats his carbine like it's a fucking toy. Bet you a quid he's never heard of trigger discipline, for one thing.

One thing I would like to ask CAGs about is this- In the argument concerning the legality of pot and abortions, they say that the more restricted either is, the more it's going to happen, because in extreme situations, people don't care about the law. Isn't it the same with guns?
 
[quote name='Tiphireth']What I wonder about strict control laws (What sort of system do you support, by the way, a very strict one like Britain, one that is a smidgeon more lax, like Canada's, or that of California's?) is who it'll harm most, and i think that the casual Joe who owns a show and keeps a concealed .38 for the time he gets robbed. I'm sure it's been beaten to death, but it's still my opinion that criminals don't give a fuck about gun laws- they're criminals for that reason in the first place. If Criminal Jack storms into Joe's store with an illegal SIG pistol with the intent to take the cash register's money, and Joe has nothing to defend himself, three things will go down- Jack will take the money, possibly ransack the store, and if he's crazy enough, kill Joe. I say if Joe has a concealed pistol, three things will likely happen- He scares Jack off without any damage to anyone, with the relative assurance that Jack won't rob his store again, the second being while Jack is taking the money, Joe uses his CCW training to apprehend and immobilise Jack so the police can be called, or third, he fires and kills Jack out of self defense. Sort of rambling, I know, but I'm at work. :p[/quote]

Those aren't all the possible endings, as it looks like what you've proposed is a "if he has no gun he's fucked, where if he has a gun, he may be fucked or may be ok."

That actually (don't freak out) echoes what a lot of feminist scholars say about gun ownership; Freda Adler (?) used to argue that guns helped balance biological differences between men and women, and thus helped usher in "gender parity in crime rates" (well, it never got to be 50/50, or even 75/25, but there was a marked increase in female crime rates shortly after WWII).

I'm not a British "ban them all, even for the police" kinda dude. I don't like, but respect, hunters and hunting. I've nothing against it. So, while I'm for gun control (I was appalled that the semi-automatic ban elapsed a few years ago), I think the Canadian system is satisfactory, given that this *is* such a shock. Another school shooting is unfortunate, and realistically, it's surprising partially due to its location in a nation with harsher gun control laws than ours. It does not negate that gun crime rates are night and day between the US and the land of the rising moose, however.

My solution to the problem is, rather than punishing the innocent, responsible gun owners, go after the guilty. Obviously in this case, the kid's dead, but looking back on his history and influences, the problem might be evident there.

Anyway, I need to get back to CAD, but a /k/ommando pretty much summed up what he thinks is going to happen here-

What's a "/k/ommando"?

I was appalled that they kept describing the kid in the typical fruitbat goth terms, as if that is a reliable predictor of who is likely to start randomly shooting at people. Moreover, some news source said the kid had a mohawk - the guy wore something that looked like a fucking toupee. THIS is a mohawk:

http://www.supermusic.sk/obrazky/8052_wattie.jpg (it's a big pic, so C&P)

One last thing, sort of OT (my specialty) to Myke- I have to admit I didn't like you very much for a while, mainly because, to me, whenever you posted (although I don't look in the wrestling threads), it sounded like you were still in the VS forum mindset, but with the last few posts you've made, they seem much more cordial and friendly, and that helps me see the logic better than 'you's fuckin' crazy'. Anyway, enough dick sucking, but lately to me, you've cooled off, and I find you much easier to converse with. Take that how you will. :)

Eh, you don't like the Misfits, so go die in a pit. ;)

I kid, of course. I have my moments, good and bad. It's no mental or psychological ailment; I think it's related to how much coffee I have. I wish I could be more reasonable than a dick, but sometimes the latter outweighs the former.

This don't mean I'm blowin' you, however.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Those aren't all the possible endings, as it looks like what you've proposed is a "if he has no gun he's fucked, where if he has a gun, he may be fucked or may be ok."[/quote]
True, that is fairly absolute. I guess what I mean is, the shopowner having a handgun on his person is more likely to diffuse the situation with minimal strife, with regards to his property and the health of all parties involved. If he didn't have that option, things are more likely to go sour for him than if he had control of the situation.

That actually (don't freak out) echoes what a lot of feminist scholars say about gun ownership; Freda Adler (?) used to argue that guns helped balance biological differences between men and women, and thus helped usher in "gender parity in crime rates" (well, it never got to be 50/50, or even 75/25, but there was a marked increase in female crime rates shortly after WWII).
Yepyep. There was a female shop owner in the Gun Control episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit show who echoed the same thing. Physically, she's not as strong as a man, so she keeps a tiny Taurus automatic in her bra to end a nasty situation in her favour.

I'm not a British "ban them all, even for the police" kinda dude. I don't like, but respect, hunters and hunting. I've nothing against it. So, while I'm for gun control (I was appalled that the semi-automatic ban elapsed a few years ago), I think the Canadian system is satisfactory, given that this *is* such a shock. Another school shooting is unfortunate, and realistically, it's surprising partially due to its location in a nation with harsher gun control laws than ours. It does not negate that gun crime rates are night and day between the US and the land of the rising moose, however.
I'm not a fan of hunting either, but if some guy wants to go freeze his balls off at unGodly hours of the morning looking to bag a doe, I'm fine with it too. I imagine that ban you're talking about is the AWB, or Assault Weapons Ban that expired in 2004 (initiated by Sarah Brady back in '94)? It didn't ban semiautomatic firearms but rather limited magazines that were manufactured during and post 1994 through 2004 to 10 rounds total. Keep in mind the millions of mags that were manufactured before then, still legal to sell and have during said AWB. Additionally, it singled out the Five Evil Features to a semi-auto rifle: Flash suppressor, handgun-style grip, detachable magazine, bayonet and a folding/telescoping stock. Basically if your gun had any one of these features, it was illegal and the BATFE (snort) could come and snatch it up and you get charged with.. whatever they charged people with, I don't know offhand. The problem with the AWB is that it's pretty much useless. Just about anyone who wanted a semi-auto assault rifle could get one that had a magazine that was manufactured before '94, or just go with the ten-round magazine. Even these Five Evil Features didn't restrict all that much- The SKS Carbine, for example, was technically illegal under the AWB, but since it's an old, but still very dangerous gun, you could import it because it was deemed as a "Curio and Relic" rifle. :lol: Anyway, my point is, if you're going to install relatively heavy measures of gun control, you've got to do it right, because people will always find their way around it.

One last note, though- The carbine used by the Canadian kid in the OP was totally compliant with the AWB. Ten round magazine, no flash suppressor, full-size stock, a thumb-hole grip, and no bayonet. So even if he'd been in the US, the AWB that was so lauded by the gun control lobby wouldn't have stopped him.


What's a "/k/ommando"?

I was appalled that they kept describing the kid in the typical fruitbat goth terms, as if that is a reliable predictor of who is likely to start randomly shooting at people. Moreover, some news source said the kid had a mohawk - the guy wore something that looked like a fucking toupee. THIS is a mohawk:

http://www.supermusic.sk/obrazky/8052_wattie.jpg (it's a big pic, so C&P)
A /k/ommando's a member of the 4chan "Weapons" board (denoted by a 'k'). We discuss all sorts of crap there, especially gun control.

Yeah, that was pretty sterotypical. Although I admit that if I were a store owner, and a legal aged person came in dressed as he was with, say, a t-shirt featuring Cannibal Corps on it, and demonstrated abhorrent responsibility with my unloaded guns (as the kid in the OP did, evident by the pictures on his blog thing), I would refuse to sell to him on account that he'd be irresponsible and possibly fuck some shit up. I'd rather a kid go without a means to defend himself than give a possible nutcase the chance to plug his mother or something.

Eh, you don't like the Misfits, so go die in a pit. ;)
You kids and your damn modern music.

I kid, of course. I have my moments, good and bad. It's no mental or psychological ailment; I think it's related to how much coffee I have. I wish I could be more reasonable than a dick, but sometimes the latter outweighs the former.

This don't mean I'm blowin' you, however.
I can understand it. Admittedly, I really suck at most debate, but I like to speak my thoughts, so it's usually sort of a hard experience to come into the VS forum and say anything. Considering some of the things you read around here though, being a dick is justified.

Ya got somethin' on your lip there. ;)
 
They kept talking about how he liked playing the Columbine game, like it was the equivalent of Doom. Have these people actually seen the game?
 
I wonder if he had gone nuts with a knife and killed 1 person and injured 19 others that they would be calling for Fiskars companies' collective head on a platter? I mean hell that company even catters some of their products toward children for god's sake. Those safe scissors are just their way of getting their deadly product in children's hands that much sooner.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']I wonder if he had gone nuts with a knife and killed 1 person and injured 19 others that they would be calling for Fiskars companies' collective head on a platter? I mean hell that company even catters some of their products toward children for god's sake. Those safe scissors are just their way of getting their deadly product in children's hands that much sooner.[/quote]

I'd heard (which obviously makes my point bulletproof ;) ) that England is looking into banning knives because of the number of stabbings in the country.

...

Yeah. Knives. Next think you know they'll be cutting crumpets with spoons or some shit. England needs to stop blaming the tool used to commit a crime and focus on the root of the criminal matter first.
 
Hey, look, a somewhat related story right here in the States:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/09/15/school.bombs.ap/index.html

[quote name='CNN']
GREEN BAY, Wisconsin (AP) -- Two 17-year-olds suspected of plotting a shooting spree at their high school were obsessed with the mass killings at Columbine High School and had homemade bombs and weapons at their homes, investigators said Friday.
The boys were arrested Thursday at East High School after a student went to an associate principal.
"If someone hadn't come forward, we'd be talking about funerals instead of charges," Brown County District Attorney John Zakowski said.
William C. Cornell and Shawn R. Sturtz were arrested for suspicion of conspiracy to commit first-degree intentional homicide and conspiracy to commit arson. They were expected in court later Friday for a bond hearing.
Police found nine rifles and shotguns, a handgun, about 20 "crudely made" bombs, camouflage clothing, gas masks, two-way radios and hundreds of rounds of ammunition at Cornell's house, Police Capt. Lisa Sterr said. She said Cornell had made several bombs about two months ago.
At Sturtz's home, police found knives and ammunition, Sterr said. (Watch how police found arsenal amassed by teens -- 1:31)
Police said they also found mannequin heads that appeared to have been used for target practice, and suicide notes.
No dangerous materials were found at the school, Sterr said.
The two teens had long been fascinated by the April 1999 Columbine massacre in Littleton, Colorado, in which two students armed with guns, knives and bombs killed 12 classmates and a teacher before killing themselves, Sterr said.
In Montreal on Wednesday, an attacker killed a student at Dawson College and wounded 20 others before killing himself. Kimveer Gill, 25, had dressed in a black trench coat like the Columbine shooters, posted online photos of himself with weapons and said he liked to play an Internet role game about the Columbine killings. (Full story)
Sturtz was described as being obsessed with pain and death, and both he and Cornell had been described as being depressed for the past couple of years and hated school, according to Sterr.
Sturtz had also just lost an Internet relationship with a girl, Sterr said.
"Sturtz was very upset about this and became extremely enraged and (Wednesday) talked of soon attacking the school like Columbine," Sterr said.
Police Detective Tom Molitor said the two just needed a triggering event to pull off their plan.
"They were one bad day away from something happening. It could have happened yesterday," he said.
Asked whether the two were cooperating with investigators, Molitor would only say they have gathered details from credible sources.
"I believe there probably were other people who knew about it. It was very good luck that this person came forward," Molitor said.
The student who alerted school officials to the two teens was "shook up," school Superintendent Dan Nerad said.
Mayor Jim Schmitt praised that student as an hero.[/quote]

So we've got a couple of American kids wanting to pull another Columbine but couldn't keep their mouths shut, so they were discovered before it happened, thankfully.

But look at those two. If they bust down the door in tacticool gear and opened up, I'd be too busy laughing at their asses to find cover. :lol:
storygbsuspectsappl2.jpg


You know the dude on the left is the brains of the operation. Just look at that scowl. His bunkmates at the slammer better watch out.
 
bread's done
Back
Top