Chrysler will not repay back its "loans" even if it exits bankruptcy

Don't go lumping in Ford with GM/Chrysler now.

Ford's new hybrid Fusion was rated top of class ahead of Toyota and Nissan by Car and Driver by far, and the 2008/2009 Fusion was on par with the Camry and Accord in reliability according to Consumer Reports.

All of their cars have Sync too which is pretty sweet. And they turned down bailout money. Personally, I'm getting a Mustang GT this year.
 
Back on topic, I think most people expected this to happen in a bail-out happy environment. It's not like the Lee Iacocco days (which started the "Get a car, get a check" rebate fiasco which became part of the problem, along with leasing). It's more like loaning money to a relative: you hope you get it back, but you write it off as a loss as soon as you write the check.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Yeah i wouldn't mind some student loan forgiveness, at least that money went to something worthwhile.[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[quote name='Ruined']Don't go lumping in Ford with GM/Chrysler now.

Ford's new hybrid Fusion was rated top of class ahead of Toyota and Nissan by Car and Driver by far, and the 2008/2009 Fusion was on par with the Camry and Accord in reliability according to Consumer Reports.

All of their cars have Sync too which is pretty sweet. And they turned down bailout money. Personally, I'm getting a Mustang GT this year.[/QUOTE]

Ford had to mortgage everything to survive. Oh and guess where the Fusion's platform and engines came from?



Is buying American un-American? :hot:
 
I love how people like to de-americanize american cars .
I guess it makes them feel better when they buy from a foreign company .
 
[quote name='Richlough']I love how people like to de-americanize american cars .
I guess it makes them feel better when they buy from a foreign company .[/QUOTE]


So you're from Michigan huh? :D

Anyway, since Ruined compared the Fusion to Japanese cars, I think it's relevant. And why would I feel bad about buying from a foreign company?
 
[quote name='rickonker']:lol:



Ford had to mortgage everything to survive. Oh and guess where the Fusion's platform and engines came from?



Is buying American un-American? :hot:[/quote]
Education > saving a failing auto company.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Education > saving a failing auto company.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but that's not what you said.
 
[quote name='Richlough']I love how people like to de-americanize american cars .
I guess it makes them feel better when they buy from a foreign company .[/QUOTE]

Why should anyone feel bad about buying from a foreign company? Do you feel bad when you buy a Nintendo or Sony game? What about if you buy Mexican produce or gasoline made from Canadian or Venezuelan oil? Companies come and go. Yes, big companies. Yes, big car companies. Let the companies who are bankrupt go into bankruptcy, let the market decide who will survive, and get the fucking government out of the car business.
 
I think the government's intention is to save hundreds of thousands of jobs in doing so .
It's better than wasting money policing the world .
 
[quote name='Richlough']I think the government's intention is to save hundreds of thousands of jobs in doing so .
It's better than wasting money policing the world .[/QUOTE]
BTW, you didn't answer our question...
 
I buy my multiplatform games usually for the 360 , unless I get a really good deal .
I guess you could argue what country the developers of the games are from .

But I don't live in a neighborhood of video game developers, maybe more tied to the auto industry .
 
[quote name='mykevermin']no shit.

Stop buying American, if there is such a thing anymore.[/QUOTE]


Why? Why would you stop buying American? You've already helped pay for that new car, you might as well pay the rest and get the product. Oh, wait, you probably didn't pay for it yet, but I probably did as I undoubtedly pay more taxes than you do, if you even pay any at all. Rich people have paid those taxes, Myke, not rank and file Americans and Obama supporters. You should be glad that all those wealthhy taxpayers have been soaked to bailout a failing industry and gtt nothing for their investment. It's the perfect end result, so I'm not sure why you would be against it.

Im not sure how this 'not buying American' jibes wiith supporting organised labor who now has a majoriity ownership interest in Chrysler either. That money helped save thousands of union jobs and democrat voters. If anything, your mantra should be: "Workers unite, buy a Chrrisler. " But then you've never been much for philosophical, or moral consistancy.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Rich people have paid those taxes, Myke, not rank and file Americans and Obama supporters. You should be glad that all those wealthhy taxpayers have been soaked to bailout a failing industry and gtt nothing for their investment. It's the perfect end result, so I'm not sure why you would be against it.[/quote]

Ahhh yes, another gem from the conservative comedy cavalcade. Are these the rich that outsourced all the jobs to countries with low business tax rates or the rich that hide all their money in Swiss bank accounts? Perhaps you failed to notice but the American people gave your act the hook a while ago.
 
[quote name='rickonker']:lol:



Ford had to mortgage everything to survive. Oh and guess where the Fusion's platform and engines came from?



[/QUOTE]

My question is, isnt this supposed to be how it works. Or should everyone ask for a handout?
 
[quote name='Snake2715']My question is, isnt this supposed to be how it works. Or should everyone ask for a handout?[/QUOTE]

It's OK when the banks ask, and they get to keep the foreclosed houses .
That just adds insult to injury .
 
[quote name='camoor']Ahhh yes, another gem from the conservative comedy cavalcade. Are these the rich that outsourced all the jobs to countries with low business tax rates or the rich that hide all their money in Swiss bank accounts? Perhaps you failed to notice but the American people gave your act the hook a while ago.[/QUOTE]

Who do you think actually pays taxes, Camoor ? You think poor people pay them? Please tell me YOUR act doesn't include the imaginary wealthy people who don't pay any taxes at all. That myth never seems to go out of style in the Leftist Libelous Lexicon.
 
Actually poor people do pay taxes. 7% sales tax still applies to everyone. Poor people buy more lottery tickets than any other group. That shifts millions of dollars from 'Merica to the government. Then don't forget the 3% that the check cashing place takes because no normal bank wants you to even apply for a checking account. All those millions of dollars in transactions per month get taxed by the gov't eventually.

Oh, and don't forget those sky high interest rates on just about everything because poor people's credit scores are lower. It might not be Uncle Sam but poor people still get the shaft or are you trying to say that rich people are really poor in the end, bmull? I guess being poor is all roses and welfare checks.
 
Poor people don't consume as much and still pay orders less than the rich in sales tax - which is only a State tax btw, and not revenue to the Federal treasury. And this is not an argument about how bad it is to be poor. The point is that the poor don't pay the tax, or the future tax that's being used to 'bail-out' Chrisler, by any stretch of imagination or fantasy.

The rich and middle classes are the people who actually pay income tax, corporate tax, gasoline tax, and all other federal taxes that are passed down to the consumers. The poor get subsidies for their transportation, food, shelter, and living from foodstamps and other programs, welfare-hud-section 8, and earned income tax credits. They do not pay taxes. Their burdens are spread out among the people who actually pay the taxes. And in this case the future taxpayers who do not live on social assistance and charity from the producers are gong to foot this bill as well.

I'm assuming the perceived injustice in this case is not that the poor have been forced to pay the tax pissed down the auto industry hole, but that all this money should have been given to increase the welfare benefits of the poor instead of into Chrisler's black hole of bankruptcy. Their (the poor) money was never taken in the first place, yet they supposedly have a right to receive it above the greedy capitalists, right? The problem is that the poor didn't pay that money, won't pay that money, and the rich have paid that money and got nothing. You should be thankful because it's the stated common goal of every wealth hating, closet communist on this board.

The real problem for all of you morally bankrupt do-gooders is that the greedy capitalist/owners are now UAW unions and workers and that leftist argument is now forced to examine its own idiopathic philosophy. A task I'm sure will be done flippantly and subsequently erased from the common meme, immediately replaced with inane capitalist culpability.
 
No, the poor aren't directly paying for the bailout. I'm just pointing out that you said that the poor don't pay any taxes at all. It's just as big of a stereotype as the rich that don't pay taxes. But then again, I can't expect you to view the other side of the issue.

Morally bankrupt do gooders? I don't like unions (how capitalist of me) as much as the next guy but they wouldn't have been necessary if these same companies hadn't treated their workers like slaves. But you're right, it's morally good to fire someone after they lose an arm working for you. It's morally right to purchase children from poor families and put them to work. It's morally right to pay people such low wages that they work until they die penniless. But hey, it's all the unions fault for the awful predicament that American business is in now. Capitalism will always be proven to shine it's beacon on the slobs in the Third World. Oh wait, capitalists are doing the same shit over there now also.

What happens when the world stands up and says enough? I'd love to see what happens to the pure Capitalist system when there's no work force willing to work for peanuts.

As for money going to the poor, I never said that. I think they money should've gone to every American regardless of social status, race, or religious affiliation. But that would've been redistribution of wealth and the rich still would've been pissed. Basically, anything that takes any cash from the rich is redistribution even though this country desperately needs something like that to put everbody on the same playing field once and for all.
 
I see both sides so well that l I can predict posts that follow my own with surprising accuracy. Your argument is not a xerox, or even a carbon copy of leftist regurgitation. It has all the obtuseness and fuzzy artifacts like a mimeograph; it's a poor imitation and barely readable.
 
What's so hard to understand? I admitted that the poor aren't paying for their share of the bailout. At the same time, the poor can be blamed for this mess. I also don't believe that the unions should be entirely blamed either. You can read my post above to see my opinion on capitalism and unions.

Your argument is that the rich are getting soaked in auto bailout because it's going to unions and middle class workers. For you, this is another example of redistribution of wealth, am I right?

Your other opinion that was stated in this thread was that Obama supporters don't pay taxes. You said that in post #63. That's funny. I still paid taxes this year and so did most of the people that I know that also supported Obama. Where do you get off saying that Obama supporters don't pay taxes?

And then all your bullshit about your investment and all that. You live in a country that taxes personal income for the good of the people. Sometimes, the government screws it up but don't act like you're personally making an investment in the auto companies. Your tax money is great but I doubt you've ever done anything else to make America a better place. Put your money where your mouth is and enlist in the Army if you're so outraged or better yet get on the stump and run for office. I'd love to vote against your pompous ass.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']My question is, isnt this supposed to be how it works. Or should everyone ask for a handout?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but my point is that Ford wasn't in great shape either.
 
[quote name='depascal22']What's so hard to understand? I admitted that the poor aren't paying for their share of the bailout. At the same time, the poor can be blamed for this mess. I also don't believe that the unions should be entirely blamed either. You can read my post above to see my opinion on capitalism and unions.

Your argument is that the rich are getting soaked in auto bailout because it's going to unions and middle class workers. For you, this is another example of redistribution of wealth, am I right?

Your other opinion that was stated in this thread was that Obama supporters don't pay taxes. You said that in post #63. That's funny. I still paid taxes this year and so did most of the people that I know that also supported Obama. Where do you get off saying that Obama supporters don't pay taxes?

And then all your bullshit about your investment and all that. You live in a country that taxes personal income for the good of the people. Sometimes, the government screws it up but don't act like you're personally making an investment in the auto companies. Your tax money is great but I doubt you've ever done anything else to make America a better place. Put your money where your mouth is and enlist in the Army if you're so outraged or better yet get on the stump and run for office. I'd love to vote against your pompous ass.[/QUOTE]

The poor aren't paying for the bailout - period. The point is that you should be happy about this redistribution, that it saved unionized, middle class jobs, and that the union members now own the company. Therefore, the rich (who pay a vastly superior portion of taxes) are acting in accordance with your socialist, utopian ideals of making America a better place and you should be happy. Unfortunately, you just don't seem to be able to be happy about anything. Something's always not good enough for you. Will you be happy when all wealthy people are finally abolished? I doubt it, but undoubtedly you think it would be a good start.

America is great because we were founded on the ideal that we can make our own lives better and not be forced into servitude to make everyone else's lives better. The only pomposity I read here is that you prefer a more modern slavery, that is the poor and under performing being able to demand from the producers and creators. Men having claims to the livelihood of other men is the moral preference in your eyes. It's called slavery even if there are no chins involved. Unfortunately for all of us, your system is doomed to failure after a long drawn out process of destroying humanity's soul.

And furthermore, you have no idea about the sacrifices I've made for my fellow men and country. I don't wear them on my sleeve, nor hold them in my sleeve to try to trump a discussion. You think those tactics serve you but they lend no weight to any of your arguments.
 
I honestly don't see how GM and Chrysler can survive post-bankruptcy. Even repeat GM customers like myself (2 GMs in my garage) won't touch them again after this. There's no way I'll give my business to a company so mismanaged and financially irresponsible, regardless of who's running the show now (the fed?? LOL). I see a Ford or *gasp* import brand in my future.
 
It's pretty amazing to see such quick 'OH DONT BUT AMERICAN CARS THEY ARE SUX" when especially recently they've really got their act together. Ford I think just surpassed Honda in initial quality on it's vehicles and tied Toyota.. and before you say "Oh Initial" they don't have a fucking time machine to go and check 5 years from now, it's as good as you're going to get, and I think it will hold up in 5 years as well. Hell, recently Buick tied with Jaguar for the reliability ratings.

Plus with cars like the Malibu and Fusion at the very least competing and in some stages beating the Camry and Accord.

I'm not saying blindly buy American, that's stupid. Buy the best car you can for you're money.. but automatically ruling all American cars as crap is beyond ignorance.
 
Bottom line is... If it's not truely a crap car then it's too expensive for me. EX: G8, Focus RS. Even then... I want a car for MPG not performance.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']Bottom line is... If it's not truely a crap car then it's too expensive for me. EX: G8, Focus RS. Even then... I want a car for MPG not performance.[/QUOTE]

So if the Malibu is beating the Camry in a lot of reviews/awards.. I guess if it's not not totally crap then the Camry and Accord are total crap? Not to mention the Malibu beats both in MPG.

What car are you looking for, exactly? I mean you say you are looking for MPG, so I'm not sure looking at a full sized car like the G8 is the right place to look (or compare, since it's been compared more so to Mercedes and BMW full sized sedans and cost much less).

If you're looking for cost and MPG, wouldn't a subcompact be your best option? In which case again, the Chevy Aveo is right there with the Yaris, Accent, and other imports.

I like how I've not really commented on Chrysler, yet the thread is about Chrysler.
 
I wouldn't buy either... I like good looks and having a car that not a lot of people have.

I think my current picks would probably be something along the lines of... Mazda 5 or '09 Subaru Forester. I need more space than my current 2dr car... not to mention it being over 20 years old.

Either way I'd rather my car keep working because no car payments and 25+ MPG is still cutting it.

Edit: Aveo? lool, I'd rather walk. Yaris? my friend said he wouldn't be able to continue his friendship with me if I owned one. Accent? err... another friend had a Hyundai and well I'd rather have something a bit more reliable.

I'd love to get a diesel VW for the MPG, but well... VWs aren't that great and expensive to maintain. That and I don't listen to Coldplay much and I'm not gay...
 
[quote name='mykevermin']

Stop buying American, if there is such a thing anymore.[/QUOTE]

I agree in that I am against any company which the US government has chosen to 'succeed'.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Like i said, my GM was made in Canada, so yeah, go USA.[/QUOTE]

My fiancee works at one of the biggest parts manufacturers in the US and their owned by Magna who IS the biggest. Guess who owns them?!?!?!? Canada!
 
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