Club Bing thread 5 absolutely no macro bot auto typer cheating return fraud talk !!!

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[quote name='Shuino']Well, I e-mailed Bing about my Xbox360 remote being at the 12 week mark and I got a reply saying I cheated. Which I did not.

What I don't understand is how I just got the necklace I ordered in March on the same account no more than a week ago and I have not played that account in months.[/QUOTE]
You ordered the necklace before the remote, right?

The reason you got the necklace is because it was validated/verified and submitted to Arvato for fulfillment about 29-to-32 days after you ordered it. At that point it was out of Bing's hands. However, the necklace was back-ordered at the time, so it took Arvato that long to actually ship it.

At some point after the fulfillment request for your necklace had already been submitted to Arvato they decided that your account had suspect activity, probably when you placed the order for the remote, and anything ordered on that account after that date won't be coming.

It used to be that orders/accounts were flagged at the 29-to-32 day mark, when they validated/verified the orders, but these days I suspect that they are flagging them much sooner (which is why the prizes were coming and going so frequently a while back). However, Arvato still only gets the fulfillment requests 29-to-32 days after the order is placed. Which is why most prizes are still shipping in the 29-to-32 day window.
 
[quote name='A Gamer']You ordered the necklace before the remote, right?

The reason you got the necklace is because it was validated/verified and submitted to Arvato for fulfillment about 29-to-32 days after you ordered it. At that point it was out of Bing's hands. However, the necklace was back-ordered at the time, so it took Arvato that long to actually ship it.

At some point after the fulfillment request for your necklace had already been submitted to Arvato they decided that your account had suspect activity, probably when you placed the order for the remote, and anything ordered on that account after that date won't be coming.

It used to be that orders/accounts were flagged at the 29-to-32 day mark, when they validated/verified the orders, but these days I suspect that they are flagging them much sooner (which is why the prizes were coming and going so frequently a while back). However, Arvato still only gets the fulfillment requests 29-to-32 days after the order is placed. Which is why most prizes are still shipping in the 29-to-32 day window.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but I have not played any games on that account. I don't think I played that account since early Feb. and I ordered the necklace in March and my other items in April. So I don't understand how all of a sudden Bing decides I'm cheating.
 
[quote name='jngx80']Do they send an email out if they claim someone cheated or do they only respond when you follow up?[/QUOTE]

You have to contact them, and they'll only respond if it's been at least 12 weeks since your order.
 
How long does it take for donated tickets to get executed? Is it the usual 29-32 days like regular prizes? Thanks.
 
[quote name='Shuino']Yeah, but I have not played any games on that account. I don't think I played that account since early Feb. and I ordered the necklace in March and my other items in April. So I don't understand how all of a sudden Bing decides I'm cheating.[/QUOTE]
I have several accounts that got flagged with late April orders, that had been 'retired' since late Feb (i.e. had not played any games for several months prior to ordering, and not since, either). Which leads me to believe that one of the ToS violations people are getting flagged for is not related to game-play, but rather to order placement (multiple accounts violation?).

In my case, each used a unique name at a completely different address (most in different states). A couple of the accounts had previously received prizes (i.e. shipped as recently as April '10). Still no clue as to why they were flagged. But I suspect that it is because all of the flagged accounts had ordered the same prize (COD:MW2) on the same day, from the same IP address. Still, they were shipping to different people/addresses, so I don't see how they would be in violation of the ToS.

My guess is that your account got flagged for other reasons... The first thought that comes to mind is using multiple accounts to bypass the daily ticket limit.

Without getting into the intricacies of address obfuscation (not allowed in this forum because it is often mail fraud), suffice it to say that it is highly likely that 2 or more legit people participating in Club Bing within the same apartment or office building could be construed by the Club Bing automated anti-cheater system as an attempt at avoiding the prize limit or account limit rule. And, thus you could get flagged for seemingly unknown reasons if someone else at that address also participates in Club Bing and happened to order the same prize at some time in the past.

[quote name='julie']How long does it take for donated tickets to get executed? Is it the usual 29-32 days like regular prizes? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
I believe so. However, once submitted it may take some additional time for them to get processed on the receiving end. In the case of FF miles, it seems that they get processed on specific days, once a month, by the recipient. So, it can take 60 to 90 days for them to show up, depending on when you happen to hit the cycle (30 days for Club Bing, 30 days for the recipient, and then you get them on the next 'credit date', which could be another 30 days if you happened to just miss the day).
 
I want that e-reader really bad but I never max out so it'd take me forever to get the dang thing. I don't have the patience to do it anymore.
 
A Gamer:
But, let's say, e.g., I played with one account and used all the available "cash" in it. I moved in to a second account and started playing again. I never maxed out an account (the 1000 tickets limit) on more than one account the same day. (Meaning: never played the two at the same time). That wouldn't be considered "bypassing the daily limit", I guess. Or am I wrong?

I'm really sad about legit people being considered cheaters, mostly because we don't have an idea what's "cheating" in these cases (obviously I mean when no bots were involved). Because there's no rule that says that only one person per household can play Bing. If I play, let's say, mondays and tuesdays, any other person in my household could safely play the rest of the week and it would be "safe"? (It's just a guess).

But... if a person playing 2 or more accounts did max out the daily limits with both or all of the accounts, maybe it's cheating. But if that person finished an account and started other in the name of other household member (my case, siblings) I can't see how that would be cheating. Anyway, I'm expecting a Camcorder too. I hope my cam (and the other players' prizes) comes and the people that received the "you cheated" email keep on asking Bing why and get a fair and clear response.
 
I don't disagree with you. The ToS does not limit the number of people (i.e. accounts) per address that can participate in Club Bing. And, if you were to email them and ask, they used to indicate that it was fine. The only restriction was that you could only order one of each prize per address, regardless of the number of people (i.e. accounts) at that address. With that in mind, there is nothing in the ToS that says 2 people at a single address should not max out their accounts daily. However, it does not mean that their new validation process (which I suspect is a fully automated script) isn't somehow flawed and is "throwing out the proverbial baby with the bath-water".

Back in Jun '09 they started enforcing the one account per person rule, and so the people with multiple accounts (and I am talking about people who have hundreds of accounts) were quick to adjust to using different names (or variations/similar names) at a single address to circumvent the changes to the validation system.

Obviously they changed something for orders placed in April (validated in May). And, since I suspect that they changed several things at once (i.e. decreased the number of games allowed in a specific time, tracking IP address with orders, etc), and the lack of specifics in the generic 'you cheated' email, it is difficult to say exactly why people are getting flagged.

But, I definitely agree that legit players should keep hounding Club Bing to get a straight answer as to why they got flagged, or possibly get their accounts fixed. If they read back through the threads from a few years ago, they would find that people have had their accounts un-flagged and their prizes ship out ASAP.
 
I read in a ClubBing blog that someone posted a comment saying that he wasn't receiving the prizes and decided to contact them, first Bing answered saying that he cheated. He asked again (and if his comment is real) about multiple accounts from different persons in his household (2) and Bing answered an e-mail stating two things:
1° He and his wife (household) couldn't make more than 1000 tickets per day between the 2 accounts.
2° (this is maybe obvious to me) the owner of one account only can send prizes to himself (same name) and not to other household member (wife), because that would be cheating.
That being that the guy decided to ship prizes for his wife and viceversa (let's say he earns tickets to send her a movie) and he explained this thing somehow, Bing decided to ship the prizes anyway. But he couldn't do the same thing again and they can't earn more than 1000 between the two.
 
I read in a ClubBing blog that someone posted a comment saying that he wasn't receiving the prizes and decided to contact them, first Bing answered saying that he cheated. He asked again (and if his comment is real) about multiple accounts from different persons in his household (2) and Bing answered an e-mail stating two things:
1° He and his wife (household) couldn't make more than 1000 tickets per day between the 2 accounts.
2° (this is maybe obvious to me) the owner of one account only can send prizes to himself (same name) and not to other household member (wife), because that would be cheating.
That being that the guy decided to ship prizes for his wife and viceversa (let's say he earns tickets to send her a movie) and he explained this thing somehow, Bing decided to ship the prizes anyway. But he couldn't do the same thing again and they can't earn more than 1000 between the two.

As you have indicated, you and your wife have 2 separate Club Bing accounts. The Club Bing terms and conditions allow each user to only earn 1000 tickets per day and because your household used both of these accounts to send prizes to different members of your household and Club Bing members are required to send prizes to themselves, this reflected that you were using more than one account and earning more than 1000 tickets per day between these accounts, thus violating the Club Bing Terms and Conditions. While your account and your wives accounts have not abided by the Terms and Conditions, we understand that in your particular case this may have been inadvertent based on the explanation you have provided, and thus we have shipped the prize orders on your account. We recommend that each participant in your household only order prizes from the Club Bing account in the name of the person and to the address for whom the account belongs. Also remember that we have a household limit on prizes (that is regardless of the number of players in a household, only one of each prize item can be ordered for the household). If in the future, these accounts associated with your household return to more than one account sending a prize to the same user and together earn more than 1000 tickets a day, we will consider this to be in violation of the Club Bing terms and conditions and the future orders for your household will be cancelled.
Click to expand...

I gather they considered him cheating because if the wife played and earn her tickets and then he played and send her things, his wife would be having more tickets that she was allowed (just in this specific case). But what they say about the 1000 limit per household is still weird.
 
[quote name='coolfelix']
1° He and his wife (household) couldn't make more than 1000 tickets per day between the 2 accounts.
[/QUOTE]

That would be news to me, and I certainly hope it's not true. I would imagine they would need to change the TOS to enforce this (if they haven't already -- I never look at it)
 
[quote name='A Gamer']

Obviously they changed something for orders placed in April (validated in May). And, since I suspect that they changed several things at once (i.e. decreased the number of games allowed in a specific time, tracking IP address with orders, etc), and the lack of specifics in the generic 'you cheated' email, it is difficult to say exactly why people are getting flagged.

But, I definitely agree that legit players should keep hounding Club Bing to get a straight answer as to why they got flagged, or possibly get their accounts fixed. If they read back through the threads from a few years ago, they would find that people have had their accounts un-flagged and their prizes ship out ASAP.[/QUOTE]
Hi A Gamer, What do you mean "decreased the number of games allowed in a specific time"? I got an account that I maxed out on the anagram games and I got stuff no problem, until I decided to play Flexicon and crosswire games to get the dog bed and the trinkets before taking a long break from Club Bing. I never got the dog bed and the trinkets. I emailed them and they replied saying no bots and stuff. I emailed them back asking if they implied that I cheated because I didn't. I asked that they look into it and I never heard from them again. So I'm just trying to figure out what I did that they think I cheated.
 
As long you played the games manually, you should be fine as far as the time restraints go.

I don't think a human thought you cheated. I think the 'program' they are using now to validate/verify the orders is flawed (or too restrictive) and a lot of people got flagged without justification.

If you only have one account, and didn't use a bot, then by all means keep bugging them. If they don't start responding, submitting your case to the BBB seems to be a way to get your voice heard.


[quote name='free_willy']That would be news to me, and I certainly hope it's not true. I would imagine they would need to change the TOS to enforce this (if they haven't already -- I never look at it)[/QUOTE]
It wasn't in the ToS last time I checked, and would be an arguable issue. Course, they can adjust their ToS whenever they see fit, so you better make a hard-copy quick if you think you may need it... Because they may change it the next time you look at it... :p
 
I finally passed the 12 month mark so I will be emailing them to see what they have to say. I was using two account with two different names and the same mailing address. I never played more than one account per day and never used any cheating software.
 
[quote name='julie']Does anyone know how long it takes to get a song download from CB? Is it the usual 29-30 days?[/QUOTE]
It usually takes a little longer for the downloads for some reason.
 
[quote name='megamanianation']so the only way for me to know my order number for a prize is thru the confirmation email that I deleted, right?[/QUOTE]
Yep. But you don't really need it. They (and you) can look up your order history in your account. So, as long as you fill out the form while logged in with your Live/Bing account, they will be able to find it.
 
I need to make an order to my new address that I can verify on the USPS site, but Bing can't validate. I know that I need to contact them and have them manually process my order. I believe that someone said when an order is manually processed, it comes much sooner than the normal 29-32 days. Can anyone verify this? Thanks.
 
[quote name='louiedog']I need to make an order to my new address that I can verify on the USPS site, but Bing can't validate. I know that I need to contact them and have them manually process my order. I believe that someone said when an order is manually processed, it comes much sooner than the normal 29-32 days. Can anyone verify this? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
I have an address like that. It usually takes them about a week to respond to the email request (not including the initial generic 'we got your email and will get back to you soon' reply). Once someone at Bing actually takes the time to look at it, which is roughly a week later, I get an email response saying that the "Management Team has placed a manual order on your behalf for the prizes", and the shipping/tracking email from Arvato usually comes the next shipping day.

Just be sure that you explicitly indicate that you have checked your shipping address on the USPS web site (Bing links to it in their FAQ: http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/welcome.jsp), and that it validates correctly. Yet, when you copy and paste the exact address, including the full ZIP+5, from the USPS verified address page into the Club Bing order form, it comes up as invalid. Otherwise, they will just tell you to go to the USPS web site and validate your address, adding yet another week to your 'conversation'.

Also, just to make things easier for Evelyn and/or Corinne, be sure to keep and reference the case IDs (both the KMM and BIS numbers) in all your emails (you will see what I am talking about when you get your first reply on the subject).
 
[quote name='A Gamer']Yep. But you don't really need it. They (and you) can look up your order history in your account. So, as long as you fill out the form while logged in with your Live/Bing account, they will be able to find it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.

I'm pretty bummed that I am going to have to fight to try and get my last few prizes. I haven't played the games in about a month and even if I get these prizes I can't imagine starting up again. I don't want to waste my time on prizes that I may not get. Over the past 2 or 3 years I have gotten tons of free stuff from the site. It's been a good run. Even if I don't get my last few prizes it was all worth it.
 
[quote name='A Gamer']I have an address like that. It usually takes them about a week to respond to the email request (not including the initial generic 'we got your email and will get back to you soon' reply). Once someone at Bing actually takes the time to look at it, which is roughly a week later, I get an email response saying that the "Management Team has placed a manual order on your behalf for the prizes", and the shipping/tracking email from Arvato usually comes the next shipping day.

Just be sure that you explicitly indicate that you have checked your shipping address on the USPS web site (Bing links to it in their FAQ: http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/welcome.jsp), and that it validates correctly. Yet, when you copy and paste the exact address, including the full ZIP+5, from the USPS verified address page into the Club Bing order form, it comes up as invalid. Otherwise, they will just tell you to go to the USPS web site and validate your address, adding yet another week to your 'conversation'.

Also, just to make things easier for Evelyn and/or Corinne, be sure to keep and reference the case IDs (both the KMM and BIS numbers) in all your emails (you will see what I am talking about when you get your first reply on the subject).[/QUOTE]

I already emailed them once, explicitly stating that I could verify the address on the USPS site and that I'd tried everything in their FAQ relating to addresses not validating. I was still told to do all that and get back to them if it didn't work. I assume it's because they just wanted to use their standard form response to tell me to send them my prize request along with my address. I don't blame them since it seems a lot of people caught up in the flagging are about at the 12 week mark now and I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen a bump in the number of emails they receive.

Thanks for letting me know that they ship immediately after processing. I won't be around to receive the package next week so I won't take a chance on ordering it until a couple of days before I get back. I don't want them to process and ship too quickly if it means I'll have to reroute or pick up the package from UPS.
 
[quote name='megamanianation']they claim I was using bots. great. so much for my prizes.[/QUOTE]

I think that's there go to answer now. There's no way to prove you didn't cheat so they can claim you did and benefit from all the searches.
 
[quote name='meatwad3000']still nothing on my April 14 and 21 orders... looks like I"m gonna be mailing bing in a week or two[/QUOTE]

Me too. Still nothing on the hard drive I ordered 4/15.
 
[quote name='danishmaggot']I just got an email for the game that ordered on 6/5 has been shipped.[/QUOTE]

What game did you order?
 
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[quote name='louiedog']Ooooh, a stress ball with a corporate logo. It's not like we've all probably turned down one of those for free at some point.[/QUOTE]
No doubt... But it does make a nice 'test order' prize to see whether or not an account is still valid.
 
[quote name='meatwad3000']still nothing on my April 14 and 21 orders... looks like I"m gonna be mailing bing in a week or two[/QUOTE]




Yeah, this is weird, i have been getting things right along even recently within the past month, but I too have a couple of things ordered from april that i never received either....Hmmmm (norelco cordless shaver, and small electronics case)
 
[quote name='DarkZion']Well I got a response to my email, and they claim I used bots. And since I haven't, let the battle begin.[/QUOTE]
From what I've read before, their decision is "final" and can't/won't be disputed. So, good luck to you!
 
[quote name='SlammedNiss']From what I've read before, their decision is "final" and can't/won't be disputed. So, good luck to you![/QUOTE]
Well I guess we'll find out. And I never said I'd win the battle ;)
 
The hard drive I ordered is a week past the 30-day mark. There was one package on the tracker set to be delivered today that I thought might have been for me and they just missed the confirmation email, but it's too late for delivery now so it obviously wasn't mine. Looks like I'm part of late prize club now.
 
[quote name='DarkZion']Well I guess we'll find out. And I never said I'd win the battle ;)[/QUOTE]

I sent them a follow-up email on saturday letting them know that I didn't bot. No response yet and I'm not holding my breath.

Bye-bye Bing.
 
[quote name='mrmagoo1974']Yeah, this is weird, i have been getting things right along even recently within the past month, but I too have a couple of things ordered from april that i never received either....Hmmmm (norelco cordless shaver, and small electronics case)[/QUOTE]

So you've been getting items recently, just not some from a few months ago? That means there's hope for the rest of us!
 
[quote name='anagram7507']So you've been getting items recently, just not some from a few months ago? That means there's hope for the rest of us![/QUOTE]
The real question is are they coming from the same account(s) that is missing the Apr prize(s)?

I have a few accounts that are currently 'late', and ALL of the prizes on those accounts are late... And, I am not holding my breath that they will ever ship...

[And, I won't be contacting Club Bing about them because I don't want to draw any unwanted attention to...]

I also have a few accounts that are shipping within the normal 29-to-32 day window... ALL of the prizes on those accounts are shipping on time. Not a single missing prize. Obviously, not the same name/address as the accounts above.

So, my guess is that his Apr orders and the currently shipping orders were from different accounts.
 
I'm missing a Camcorder I ordered may 30. My 2 april orders arrived on time (a month). I know it's too early to tell, but I'm beginning to feel sad and I haven't been playing lately.
 
Well whatever they changed in the way cheaters are detected is obviously flawed. I have been playing since this first started, have never cheated and have always recieved my prizes on time ie. right around a month from ordering them. However my latest prize (solar bluetooth speaker) ordered 5/14 has yet to make an appearance and with what I am reading here in the forum I'm guessing I too have been erroneously accused of cheating.
 
[quote name='scareg']Well whatever they changed in the way cheaters are detected is obviously flawed. I have been playing since this first started, have never cheated and have always recieved my prizes on time ie. right around a month from ordering them. However my latest prize (solar bluetooth speaker) ordered 5/14 has yet to make an appearance and with what I am reading here in the forum I'm guessing I too have been erroneously accused of cheating.[/QUOTE]
It's not always that you might have used bots. It's also possible they flagged you if you have more than a single account. If you've been playing this since the beginning (3 years ago) I don't see how you've managed to play on a single account honestly. Unless you just don't play/order very often.
 
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