Congratulations Exxon!

Stories like this remind me why I feel proud to be politically relegated to the extreme left, mocked and falsely labeled a "socialist," just because I believe the greater and greater concentration of wealth will lead to a plutocracy in which the common people have no control over their lives, as a result of the concentrated influence and power of the corporation.

This is just the beginning. We're all in for a bumpy ride.
 
Good for them, thats the whole point of being in business. If you don't like it, don't buy it. :D


Ohh i forgot, no company should be allowed to turn a profit. They should give it all away or just sell everything at cost.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Stories like this remind me why I feel proud to be politically relegated to the extreme left, mocked and falsely labeled a "socialist," just because I believe the greater and greater concentration of wealth will lead to a plutocracy in which the common people have no control over their lives, as a result of the concentrated influence and power of the corporation.

This is just the beginning. We're all in for a bumpy ride.[/QUOTE]

Rollerball baby.

"jonathan, jonathan jonathan!!!"
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Good for them, thats the whole point of being in business. If you don't like it, don't buy it. :D


Ohh i forgot, no company should be allowed to turn a profit. They should give it all away or just sell everything at cost.[/QUOTE]

you are slow, people are fine with companies making a profit but when they are getting raped with gas prices, many areas with limited other transportation options, it is a big deal when people are overcharging and having record profits. Its like if the price of electric or water skyrocketed and those companies that controlled them had huge profits. Water, Electricity, and Gas are necessities and they need to be kept at reasonable prices so everyone can afford it.

They are fucking smart too they jacked the prices up to 3 for no real reason, and people flipped. Lowered it to 2 ish and its didnt seem as bad a 3 but was still a rip off compared to what it was a couple years ago. Now they slowly raise the prices for no real reason.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']They are fucking smart too they jacked the prices up to 3 for no real reason, and people flipped. Lowered it to 2 ish and its didnt seem as bad a 3 but was still a rip off compared to what it was a couple years ago. Now they slowly raise the prices for no real reason.[/QUOTE]
The reason is called speculation and oil futures. Which I hate, but that's how it works. "Oh my God, Iran might hypothetically cut off oil exports at some point in the future!" -> oil price gets jacked. Ah well. I buy gas at BP.. at least they're doing heavy alternative energy research.

And when gas was around a dollar a gallon, there wasn't a war in the Middle East.

In conclusion, thank God for my 3-mile drive to work.
 
If huge profit margins translated into such trivial things such as "wage increases" and "health care coverage" for those at the bottom of the ladder as frequently as it translated into "bonuses" and "salary increases" for those at the top, I'd be perfectly happy with any company making any amount of money.

However, here is your reality: http://www.danielgross.net/archives/2006/01/08-week/index.html#a000529

That's real money by any measure, but as a percentage of earnings, it's downright astonishing: In the period from 2001 to 2003, top-executive compensation amounted to 9.8% of the companies' net income, almost double the 5% in 1993 to 1995. That's money that otherwise would end up in shareholders' pockets.
Click to expand...

As a shareholder, you're getting less and less of that company's profit in general. As a worker, your wages are stagnant while the company is balls-deep in money it doesn't know what to do with - so long as you don't get it.

Show me Joe Exxon-attendant getting an enormous raise and I'll be pleased. Show me Joe Exxon-executive getting an enormous raise and I'll say "told you so."
 
Good point. I don't see a problem with the big wigs getting more money; they have the ability and job position, but that is a big increase. 9.8%, wow. How much does that translate to in dollars?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If huge profit margins translated into such trivial things such as "wage increases" and "health care coverage" for those at the bottom of the ladder as frequently as it translated into "bonuses" and "salary increases" for those at the top, I'd be perfectly happy with any company making any amount of money.[/QUOTE]


Unless you detrmine they are making too much compared to the workers and the poor, than you want redistribution according to your standards, or whoever the current commerce minister and communist party representative happens to be. You basically outlined your communist platform in one sentence and tried to deny it in the same.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Good for them, thats the whole point of being in business. If you don't like it, don't buy it. :D
[/QUOTE]

Explain how you would suggest going about this. How are you going to go about life without these companies? You can't work, can't go to school, can't heat your home etc.
 
[quote name='WolfPac_Ite']Good point. I don't see a problem with the big wigs getting more money; they have the ability and job position, but that is a big increase. 9.8%, wow. How much does that translate to in dollars?[/QUOTE]

After profit, 10 cents of every dollar goes to the top five executives at the top 1,500 publicly traded firms in the US. Exxon, breaking the profit record, is undoubtedly one of the top 1,500, if not, for obvious reasons, the top firm.

So, if there is $10.7 billion in profit, five people divvy up roughly $1,070,000,000 (almost $1.1 billion dollars). This doesn't mean that the rest is distributed amongst the other employees - also, I don't know if employee pay is included in the profits, or considered a business cost (and taken out of the equation before profit is listed).

So, anyway - five people, $1.1 billion. Makes that $8.00 an hour job seem pretty shitty by comparison. You can decide on dinner or a trip to the hospital, while they can decide on which Faberge egg they'd like to bid on.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']After profit, 10 cents of every dollar goes to the top five executives at the top 1,500 publicly traded firms in the US. Exxon, breaking the profit record, is undoubtedly one of the top 1,500, if not, for obvious reasons, the top firm.

So, if there is $10.7 billion in profit, five people divvy up roughly $1,070,000,000 (almost $1.1 billion dollars). This doesn't mean that the rest is distributed amongst the other employees - also, I don't know if employee pay is included in the profits, or considered a business cost (and taken out of the equation before profit is listed).

So, anyway - five people, $1.1 billion. Makes that $8.00 an hour job seem pretty shitty by comparison. You can decide on dinner or a trip to the hospital, while they can decide on which Faberge egg they'd like to bid on.[/QUOTE]

See? You're all for profits, until they go to too few people or are in quantities you don't approve of. Now bring in the Socialist math engine to make sure no one gets more than their fair share.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Explain how you would suggest going about this. How are you going to go about life without these companies? You can't work, can't go to school, can't heat your home etc.[/QUOTE]

Ride a bike, chop wood and get a fireplace, eat deer and rabbit - they're delicious.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Unless you detrmine they are making too much compared to the workers and the poor, than you want redistribution according to your standards, or whoever the current commerce minister and communist party representative happens to be. You basically outlined your communist platform in one sentence and tried to deny it in the same.[/QUOTE]

As I pointed out in my first post, because I'd like to think that a company that will be dividing up over 1 billion dollars amongst five people could find a way to provide higher wages or improve health care for their employees. If you want to label me Gramsci for thinking that businesses ought to have to obligation to share revenue with their workers, be my guest.

Just because I don't buy into a completely hands-off free market philosophy doesn't make me any less of a capitalist than you. It makes me one that considers the people under me as much as the people funding me. You have heard of "keiretsu" capitalism, have you not? Would you call the Japanese communists merely because they don't hold the radical beliefs you do?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Ride a bike, chop wood and get a fireplace, eat deer and rabbit - they're delicious.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't get to college unless I rode my bike for 3 or 4 hours (maybe even 5 or 6 since I can't take the highway) each way, and you're unlikely to get to any non retail work in under an hour, most people would need 3 or 4 as well, if not longer. There's no place to chop wood, no fireplace (not that we can afford one), and, even if I did eat meat (and even when I did I viewed eating rabbit and deer like most people view eating dogs), you can't legally hunt deer and rabbit here even if you could find them, and the sight of a guy walking around with a rifle would likely result in people calling the cops. Still doesn't explain how you can cook them.

The point is you can't realistically not put money into the pockets of these companies. You can give money to more responsible ones, but that's about it. The one I have the least problem with is BP, though they're not in any of the areas I know.

Though, if you've read earlier posts of mine, you can see that I don't oppose high gas prices and have said they should be higher.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Unless you detrmine they are making too much compared to the workers and the poor, than you want redistribution according to your standards, or whoever the current commerce minister and communist party representative happens to be. You basically outlined your communist platform in one sentence and tried to deny it in the same.[/QUOTE]

No, the whole point of business is redistribution. Sometimes it is money (in the form of wages) but mostly it is skill. Those corprate execs aren't making money in a vacumn. They are using the skill of their employees (along with a modest amount of their own). Additionally, these execs are also making money off of you and I by asking taxpayers to pick up some of their liability in the form of tax breaks, less costly environmental regulation, and government subsidies to build new capacity and tap new supplies. (Not to mention fight foreign wars). So if you want to take about redistribution, talk about the WHOLE picture.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Ride a bike, chop wood and get a fireplace, eat deer and rabbit - they're delicious.[/QUOTE]

I'd like to lead such a simple Walden Pond existence, but the government demands too much protection money. I know that wars fought on the behalf of big oil can't be cheap, but why do taxpayers have to completely float their corporate overlords?
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Ride a bike, chop wood and get a fireplace, eat deer and rabbit - they're delicious.[/QUOTE]

No it's called VIABLE Public Transit. I read about a Public Transit system that was a lot more reasonable than Light Rail and got more track covered for the cost of $10 billion or more you'd pay for that. If we had money taken from a windfall profits tax on oil companies to finance this I'd be riding this a lot, saving me money on car cost and gas plus it would help revitalize areas like downtown which needs it.
Oh and before you argue about it this transit system takes into account existing infrastructure to get it done.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23'] The one I have the least problem with is BP, though they're not in any of the areas I know.[/QUOTE]
They also charge the most money for gas at any given moment.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']They also charge the most money for gas at any given moment.[/QUOTE]

So doesn't fair trade coffee, doesn't mean it isn't better to support them.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']So doesn't fair trade coffee, doesn't mean it isn't better to support them.[/QUOTE]
I can only let my politics dictate my wallet insofar that I don't get gouged. When BP gas is around 5 cents more expensive than any other station in town, I don't look back when I drive by.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']I can only let my politics dictate my wallet insofar that I don't get gouged. When BP gas is around 5 cents more expensive than any other station in town, I don't look back when I drive by.[/QUOTE]

If your car holds 20 gallons you're paying 1 dollar more to fill up your tank. 5 cents per gallon isn't much when you add it up. Most ethical things cost more, but if you agree BP is the better ethical choice (not sure if you do) then that's one of the things where there really isn't a difference.
 
Though, just to point out, you're doing a great job countering one of mulligans (and many economic liberals) points. They say people will simply vote with their wallet if they don't like a company, you're just one more example of how incorrect that view is. And the fact you base your decision on such a small amount just adds to it.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Though, just to point out, you're doing a great job countering one of mulligans (and many economic liberals) points. They say people will simply vote with their wallet if they don't like a company, you're just one more example of how incorrect that view is. And the fact you base your decision on such a small amount just adds to it.[/QUOTE]

That whole horseshit mentality is based on "rational choice theory," and it's the cornerstone of most, if not all, economic thinking. I personally believe it's tautological nonsense, because any behavior a person engages in is excused as rationally developed based upon individual-level risk/reward thinking.

So, when a father of three spends their paycheck on rent, food, and investments, he is being rational.

When a father of three spends their paycheck on lottery tickets and Kentucky Tavern, he is being rational.

When a father of three spends their paycheck on $10 TRU games, he in being rational.

Because no behavior can be considered irrational (except to those observing the actor making such decisions), it's a completely useless construct, and one that can be neither proven nor falsified.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Though, just to point out, you're doing a great job countering one of mulligans (and many economic liberals) points. They say people will simply vote with their wallet if they don't like a company, you're just one more example of how incorrect that view is. And the fact you base your decision on such a small amount just adds to it.[/QUOTE]

Well with the way more and more of our money is being stolen by the very rich through free trade in it's elimination of Blue and White Collar Business as well as raises not neccessarily fully covering inflation can you blame him if he wants to keep as much money in his wallet as possible? Soon enough though he'll be a Chinese man like you and the new, slightly less poor new Americans, the Chinese, will be laughing at you.
Btw both of you need to check out www.motorsilk.com/ to save money on Gas.
 
Sarang, the cheapest choice is often the least ethical, walmart is an excellent example. Saving money by shopping in that place (which I oppose and don't do) does much more to benefit the chinese than anything I do. Sure you'll keep more money in your wallet, but you can only do that because they found someone who they can pay less than americans.

But I can see someone buying 2 dollar a pound slave labor coffee over 10 dollar a pound fair trade, but paying $40 instead of $41 dollars just to save the buck, and when you think there is an ethical difference (again, I don't know his opinion on this) really isn't saving you much in the end.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']But I can see someone buying 2 dollar a pound slave labor coffee over 10 dollar a pound fair trade, but paying $40 instead of $41 dollars just to save the buck, and when you think there is an ethical difference (again, I don't know his opinion on this) really isn't saving you much in the end.[/QUOTE]
As an avowed coffee snob, I will concur with your comparison - after all, most fair trade coffee tastes like brewed bullshit. It's not the quality of the coffee, per se; typically, fair trade is sold to the ethical-liberal-crybaby market. So, it's typically an organic bean given a light or mild roast. Little to no oil, shitty body, and an aftertaste of felch.

Now, I'll gladly pay $8 for a 12oz of Starbucks' Italian Roast over a $4 canister of Maxwell House (which is comparable to fair trade in terms of quality and flavor). But I buy coffee for the flavor rather than the function, so perhaps I'm in the minority.

Truth be told, I'm actually interested in buying my own roaster so I can buy fair trade green beans and not have them fucked up by some marketing asshole who thinks I'll drink any bag of fuck that is fair trade certified. I can make it as bold and smoky as I like. I look forward to the day I can start with coffee I roasted myself, and end it with some beer I made myself. I'm halfway there (and can't stop with the alcohol talk, it would seem). ;)
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Sarang, the cheapest choice is often the least ethical, walmart is an excellent example. Saving money by shopping in that place (which I oppose and don't do) does much more to benefit the chinese than anything I do. Sure you'll keep more money in your wallet, but you can only do that because they found someone who they can pay less than americans.

But I can see someone buying 2 dollar a pound slave labor coffee over 10 dollar a pound fair trade, but paying $40 instead of $41 dollars just to save the buck, and when you think there is an ethical difference (again, I don't know his opinion on this) really isn't saving you much in the end.[/QUOTE]

I disagree for the Wal-Mart around this area. Overall they are NOT cheaper priced and I find that "Everyday Low Prices" crap they tout to be a load of total bullshit and especially resent the fact they're using my tax money to build their distribution centers.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I disagree for the Wal-Mart around this area. Overall they are NOT cheaper priced and I find that "Everyday Low Prices" crap they tout to be a load of total bullshit and especially resent the fact they're using my tax money to build their distribution centers.[/QUOTE]

Well, walmarts profit benefit the company itself, the individual stores merely exist for that end. But, do you still shop there?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well, walmarts profit benefit the company itself, the individual stores merely exist for that end. But, do you still shop there?[/QUOTE]

Nope way back I did for closeout video games pretty much but that Wal-Mart has stopped doing it. :whistle2:(
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']If you ever decide to again then I can just add you as another reason why the concept of voting with your wallet doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

Funny thing I think Wal-Mart doesn't seem to carry Organic products or maybe I haven't noticed them.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']If you ever decide to again then I can just add you as another reason why the concept of voting with your wallet doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to go to college at a place that's a 4 hour bike ride. You choose to do it. You keep saying all these examples prove voting with your wallet doesn't work, yet every 'example' you make is a perfect example of how it's working. Find a job that's a bike ride away. Reuse your shopping bags. heat your home with an alternative heating source. Don't buy that designer coffee. Don't buy that new pair of trendy jeans or shoes. If your preferred method isn't availible then make a choice and change.

The problem is that people like you think you shouldn't be burdened with changing your own behavior. You think the world should change to fit your comfortable existence so that you can use the least effort possible while meandering through life bitching about how wrong everything is.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You don't have to go to college at a place that's a 4 hour bike ride. You choose to do it. You keep saying all these examples prove voting with your wallet doesn't work, yet every 'example' you make is a perfect example of how it's working. Find a job that's a bike ride away. Reuse your shopping bags. heat your home with an alternative heating source. Don't buy that designer coffee. Don't buy that new pair of trendy jeans or shoes. If your preferred method isn't availible then make a choice and change.
[/quote]

The more expensive coffee is usually fair trade, meaning workers are paid more. That comment, along with some others such as the shopping bags, I'm not sure why they are even mentioned as they don't relate to what was being discussed, and don't relate to anything I've said about my behavior.

The only college that is closer would still take about 2 hours to get to, and it is horrible for my major as its main focus is on engineers, with mine being one of their last concerns. Finding a job that's a bike ride away can only be done for retail jobs, anything in the future it would not work for.

The problem is that people like you think you shouldn't be burdened with changing your own behavior. You think the world should change to fit your comfortable existence so that you can use the least effort possible while meandering through life bitching about how wrong everything is.
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You do realize you're supporting my statement, right? My whole point is suggesting that people vote with their wallet, such as you say, is wrong. People will take the easy way out and support companies they think are harmful. The polls on walmart shoppers support this. I've said little as to what I have done as it matters little other than when you suggest extreme examples. Your idea concerns the general public, their behavior is all that counts.

In regards to myself you suggested very extreme changes that are either unaffordable or undoable. They are not serious suggestions that anyone would undertake. But of course people who think one solution is more ethical would want to change things to reflect that. Someone who opposes the use of animals in meat (or, a more realistic goal, wants cruelty reduced in farming) is unlikely to be content being a lone protestor, and someone who wants to pay workers more isn't going to be happy having 1 company do that. They want ethical changes to reflect the industry as a whole. One person changing their behavior does virtually no good overal in regards to most things.
 
No, you don't get it, alonzo. You don't have to go to college at all. You could teach yourself, find a tutor, take an online course. Or, you could find a different profession that interests you.

If anything, you keep proving my point that you don't want to be affected by any moral choice to modify your behavior. Your so-called 'needs' aren't anything of the sort. They are self-indulgences you have been brainwashed into thinking you can't live without.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']No, you don't get it, alonzo. You don't have to go to college at all. You could teach yourself, find a tutor, take an online course. Or, you could find a different profession that interests you.

If anything, you keep proving my point that you don't want to be affected by any moral choice to modify your behavior. Your so-called 'needs' aren't anything of the sort. They are self-indulgences you have been brainwashed into thinking you can't live without.[/QUOTE]

Tell me mulligan, if I wanted to cause the greatest benefit to society am I more able to do so with a high school degree, barely scraping by week to week, or with a college degree where I can engage in work that actually benefits people? Either way I can still volunteer, but with a high school degree my main job would likely do nothing to actually benefit people. Teaching yourself or finding a tutor is absolutely useless and pointless for careers requiring a bachelor's degree or more.

You still are attacking the concept that people do vote with their wallets though.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']Tell me mulligan, if I wanted to cause the greatest benefit to society am I more able to do so with a high school degree, barely scraping by week to week, or with a college degree where I can engage in work that actually benefits people? Either way I can still volunteer, but with a high school degree my main job would likely do nothing to actually benefit people. Teaching yourself or finding a tutor is absolutely useless and pointless for careers requiring a bachelor's degree or more.

You still are attacking the concept that people do vote with their wallets though.[/QUOTE]

Don't give me that self-sacrificing- "i'm only working for the good of humanity" bullshit. Take care of yourself. It's the best gift you can give me, your brothers, the government, and humanity in general.

Who says getting a college degree gives you a ticket to paradise? A college degree is just a piece of paper. That and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee. But then again it probably wouldn't get you one cause you need one from Starbucks and that's probably next to campus across town from the gated suburban white area where you live and much too far to walk.

So, you have somthing against those that only have a high school education. Are you supposedly better than they are? I know plenty of un-educated baffoons who know the value of people and how to help their fellow man without the benefit of a college edumacation. You have a long way to go to be close to being better than they are.

You know what you are? A biggot. Somehow all my other tirades about your pampered white-bread existence have been validated and I no longer have to carry any guilt about constantly challenging your outrageous relations of inexperience.


And this just has to be a mis-type, right ?
You still are attacking the concept that people do vote with their wallets though.
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[quote name='bmulligan']A college degree is just a piece of paper.[/QUOTE]
Obeying the letter of the law, if not the spirit. Anyone who believes that a college degree doesn't afford someone passage into better jobs is just ignorant. A HS diploma may have meant a lot more 40-60 years ago, however, everyone and their dog can get a HS diploma or equivalent. It's like believing that connections, gender, skin color, college you graduated from, interests, grades, personality, charisma and references don't matter. But, hey, they know the value of people :roll:
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Don't give me that self-sacrificing- "i'm only working for the good of humanity" bullshit. Take care of yourself. It's the best gift you can give me, your brothers, the government, and humanity in general.

Who says getting a college degree gives you a ticket to paradise? A college degree is just a piece of paper. That and 75 cents will get you a cup of coffee. But then again it probably wouldn't get you one cause you need one from Starbucks and that's probably next to campus across town from the gated suburban white area where you live and much too far to walk.

So, you have somthing against those that only have a high school education. Are you supposedly better than they are? I know plenty of un-educated baffoons who know the value of people and how to help their fellow man without the benefit of a college edumacation. You have a long way to go to be close to being better than they are.

You know what you are? A biggot. Somehow all my other tirades about your pampered white-bread existence have been validated and I no longer have to carry any guilt about constantly challenging your outrageous relations of inexperience.


And this just has to be a mis-type, right ?[/QUOTE]

My whole point at the beginning was that the idea that people vote with their wallet was wrong, as evidence by polls conducted on peoples opinions of walmart.

But you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, just trying to get a response.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Anyone who believes that a college degree doesn't afford someone passage into better jobs is just ignorant. A HS diploma may have meant a lot more 40-60 years ago, however, everyone and their dog can get a HS diploma or equivalent. It's like believing that connections, gender, skin color, college you graduated from, interests, grades, personality, charisma and references don't matter. But, hey, they know the value of people :roll:[/QUOTE]

It (the degree or the connections) may afford you that passage, but it doesn't mean you're capable of performing the work.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']My whole point at the beginning was that the idea that people vote with their wallet was wrong, as evidence by polls conducted on peoples opinions of walmart.

But you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, just trying to get a response.[/QUOTE]

People vote with their dollars, period. They do it either by choice or by default whether your poll results say so or not, it's like the law of gravity. Dollar goes here feeds this niche, dollar goes there feeds that. Money makes the world go around and if you want to buy chineese shirts you create the chineese shirt market. When you buy cheese you create a cheese market. If you want to buy companies you make the stock market. Christ, no wonder a high school education isn't what it used to be.

And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. For someone who claims to want to help 'humanity' you have a skewed vision of what the real world is like and an elitist view of yourself over others not as educated. It's not a good way to feign empathy.

If you really claim to want to help people, donate your tuition money to charity and join the peace corp.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']People vote with their dollars, period. They do it either by choice or by default whether your poll results say so or not, it's like the law of gravity. Dollar goes here feeds this niche, dollar goes there feeds that. Money makes the world go around and if you want to buy chineese shirts you create the chineese shirt market. When you buy cheese you create a cheese market. If you want to buy companies you make the stock market. Christ, no wonder a high school education isn't what it used to be.[/quote]

All you're saying is people can vote with their money, not that they do. People just put their money wherever is easiest/most convenient and that doesn't have an outrageous ethical issue. Most don't think beyond price, and they don't actively make decisions on which company to support.

And I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. For someone who claims to want to help 'humanity' you have a skewed vision of what the real world is like and an elitist view of yourself over others not as educated. It's not a good way to feign empathy.

If you really claim to want to help people, donate your tuition money to charity and join the peace corp.
Click to expand...

You read a lot more into my words than anyone else possibly could. It's always difficult to hold a coherent argument with you for very long, as you always make generalizations well beyond anything that was brought up. If you're not just fishing for a reaction then your opinion of me dramatically taints the way you read my words.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']All you're saying is people can vote with their money, not that they do. People just put their money wherever is easiest/most convenient and that doesn't have an outrageous ethical issue. Most don't think beyond price, and they don't actively make decisions on which company to support. [/quote]

Yes, it does have an ethical issue. Most don't think beyond price, but they should. You don't get it - life isn't about convenience, it's about moral choices. You may choose to coast through life, but many do not take it so lightly. Unless they are not spending them, people vote with their dollars, de facto. Even if they are not making concious choices, their dollars are voting to keep certain companies in existence over others.


You read a lot more into my words than anyone else possibly could. It's always difficult to hold a coherent argument with you for very long, as you always make generalizations well beyond anything that was brought up. If you're not just fishing for a reaction then your opinion of me dramatically taints the way you read my words.
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No, alonzo, you write more words that you should, that's the problem. You're upset becuase I can zero in on your shortcomings and you chose to ignore them as if they don't exist. There was no generalizing your comments, they were specific and conveyed the exact meaning you intended. You think you will be better than people when you get your degree. By your logic, I'm already better than you. Of course, my own argument for that uses a different premise but comes to the same conclusion.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Yes, it does have an ethical issue. Most don't think beyond price, but they should. You don't get it - life isn't about convenience, it's about moral choices. You may choose to coast through life, but many do not take it so lightly. Unless they are not spending them, people vote with their dollars, de facto. Even if they are not making concious choices, their dollars are voting to keep certain companies in existence over others.
[/quote]

You're arguing the same point I've been arguing here, you just don't want to see it. Many people suggest that people shopping in a place means they approve of it.

No, alonzo, you write more words that you should, that's the problem. You're upset becuase I can zero in on your shortcomings and you chose to ignore them as if they don't exist. There was no generalizing your comments, they were specific and conveyed the exact meaning you intended. You think you will be better than people when you get your degree. By your logic, I'm already better than you. Of course, my own argument for that uses a different premise but comes to the same conclusion.
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Well I'm glad you think so highly of your ability to "zero in" on the true meaning. You have periods where you actually do pay attention and comprehend what I say, then you have periods where you make assumptions based on interpretations of what you think I said. Essentially I did not say what you are accusing me of, and I did not allude to it. But I don't care enough to continue arguing this since once you lose grasp of the converstation you just keep going further and further off the deep end.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']You're arguing the same point I've been arguing here, you just don't want to see it. Many people suggest that people shopping in a place means they approve of it. [/quote]

That's exactly what I'm arguing. People who shop somewhere are approving of that place's existence.

You have periods where you actually do pay attention and comprehend what I say, then you have periods where you make assumptions based on interpretations of what you think I said. Essentially I did not say what you are accusing me of, and I did not allude to it. But I don't care enough to continue arguing this since once you lose grasp of the converstation you just keep going further and further off the deep end.
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The problem with you, alonzo, is that you are already of the deep end and have periods when don't realize what you're saying. Flippant comments about the social status doesn't absolve you from their implications even in the absence of intent.

[quote name='alonzo']Tell me mulligan, if I wanted to cause the greatest benefit to society am I more able to do so with a high school degree, barely scraping by week to week, or with a college degree where I can engage in work that actually benefits people? Either way I can still volunteer, but with a high school degree my main job would likely do nothing to actually benefit people. [/quote]

So, you either believe highschool graduates can only scrape by week to week without a college degree, or YOU couldn't do better than scrape by week to week without one. You also either believe only college graduates can help or benefit others or that YOU can't unless you have one.

Perhaps I mischaracterized your words and for that, I apologize. Perhaps it is not the undereducated you hold in contempt for not being able to help themselves or others, it may simply be that you do not have the confidence in your own abilities to do the same until you have been stamped with approval and issued a certificate by the accredited bureau. I am sorry you hold yourself in such low regard and hope you do well to improve your self image through your educational experiences.

Since i've been treading in the deep end, I'll now swim back to more shallow waters. But I'll always be on the lookout when you decide to climb to the 3M board and jump off.
 
>>Take care of yourself. It's the best gift you can give me, your brothers, the government, and humanity in general.

>life isn't about convenience, it's about moral choices.-BMulligan

If im reading them right you cannot reconcile those two statements.
 
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