Continuing to win the hearts and minds

[Ikohn4ever]

Charges dropped against Marine in Haditha case

By Dan Whitcomb Fri Mar 28, 6:48 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Military prosecutors dropped all charges on Friday against a Marine accused of killing unarmed Iraqi women and children at Haditha in 2005, abruptly dismissing the case on the eve of trial with little explanation.


Lance Cpl Stephen B. Tatum became the fifth Haditha defendant out of eight to see charges dropped in a case that brought international condemnation on U.S. troops in Iraq. Three Marines, including accused ringleader Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, still face court-martial later this year.
Though prosecutors had reportedly offered Tatum, 26, immunity to testify against Wuterich, defense attorneys said no such deal had been struck.
"Lance Corporal Tatum is not trading his testimony for this dismissal," defense attorney Jack Zimmermann told Reuters in an interview. "He may very well be called as a witness for the prosecution or the defense, but he is going to be a neutral witness and will tell the truth, as he's always done."
Zimmermann said he believed the case was abandoned because it was "weak from the start." He described his client and the man's family as "relieved" and tearful at the news.





"I think when the prosecution realized we were going to trial and that he was going to tell the truth, as he has all along, this experienced set of prosecutors realized it wasn't really fair to dump all this on a lance corporal who was responding the way he was trained," Zimmermann told Reuters.
MARINES ACCUSED OF 'MASSACRE'
Word of the development came as jury selection was about to begin in Tatum's court-martial on charges of involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and aggravated assault at the Camp Pendleton Marine base in California.
The Marines offered little explanation, saying in a statement only that the case had been dropped "in order to continue to pursue the truth-seeking process into the Haditha incident." A Marine spokesman declined to elaborate.
"To ensure the remaining cases are brought to closure in a fair and just manner, further discussion of this case is inappropriate at this time," Lt. Col. Sean Gibson said.





Iraqi witnesses say angry Marines massacred unarmed civilians after a popular comrade, Lance Cpl. Miguel "TJ" Terrazas, was ripped in half by a roadside bomb. Defense attorneys maintain that the civilians were killed during a pitched battle with insurgents in and around Haditha.
Other Marines have testified that Tatum, who initially faced more serious charges of unpremeditated murder and negligent homicide, was among those who "cleared" two Iraqi houses after the roadside bombing, resulting in 19 deaths.





Another Marine testified Tatum told him to shoot a group of Iraqi women and children he found on a bed in a closed room. That Marine said he walked away but saw Tatum return and heard a loud noise, possibly gunfire or a grenade.
Of the eight Marines originally charged in the November 19, 2005, killing of 24 men, women and children at Haditha, five have now seen their cases dropped.
Court-martial for Wuterich has been postponed until later this year pending the appeal of a discovery ruling. Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani and 1st Lt. Andrew Grayson are set for court-martial in April and May.









gotta love justice for some

 

[pittpizza]

Well at least now we can really authoritatively condemn China's civil rights abuses.

 

[elprincipe]

[quote name='Ikohn4ever']gotta love justice for some[/QUOTE]

Obviously we can only assume this wasn't because of lack of evidence since having read media reports we know exactly what happened and can only assume they are guilty.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

[quote name='elprincipe']Obviously we can only assume this wasn't because of lack of evidence since having read media reports we know exactly what happened and can only assume they are guilty. [/quote]
Duh! Of course. It's so much easier (fun too!) to just assume everyone is guilty. You don't even need to wait until stupid things like "the truth" or "evidence" come out, you can just label everyone guilty right away! It's sweet.

 

[thrustbucket]

I never saw any "evidence" of the claims of their guilt. I doubt prosecutors did either.

 

[mykevermin]

[quote name='thrustbucket']I never saw any "evidence" of the claims of their guilt. I doubt prosecutors did either.[/QUOTE]

Well, we all know how you feel about "evidence" that runs contradictory to your ideology, so let's not pretend that evidence would have swayed your opinion.

K? K.

 

[trq]

Awesome. I love when people don't bother to actually read what's being debated; it makes my life so much easier.

What's not in question is this: At least fifteen Iraqi civilians in Haditha were killed by US Marines in November of 2005. Nobody -- the Marines included -- are disputing that. When the Marines first reported the incident, they reported the civilians as killed by bomb blast. Physical evidence didn't bear that out -- Military intelligence corroborates the idea that the civilians were shot, not torn apart by shrapnel. Then the Marines alleged that the civilians were killed in the crossfire between themselves and insurgents.

What is at issue is the question of whether these civilians were accidentally killed by the Marines in a military action, or whether they were killed in a premeditated criminal act of revenge. The prosecution, obviously, charged them with the more severe crimes (mostly), which creates a higher burden of proof. Now, it's awfully hard to collect evidence of a violent crime in a war zone, months after it happened, so we're left with a case of "he said, he said" -- one Marine says they did certain things, another says no, they didn't. Stalemate. Ergo, charges are dropped.

So. Far from "There's no evidence! The Marines aren't guilty!" -- even in a best case scenario, these Marines made a fatal mistake and killed over a dozen women and children, and then forgot whether those dozen civilians were blown up or shot. That's about as plausible as believing the LAPD managed to plant a bloody glove covered in Nicole Simpson's DNA on O.J.'s property. Hey, could be, right?

And anyway, I'm sure that dead three-year-old with an M16 round rattling around in her skull feels so much better knowing it might have been unintentional.

 

[thrustbucket]

[quote name='mykevermin']Well, we all know how you feel about "evidence" that runs contradictory to your ideology, so let's not pretend that evidence would have swayed your opinion.

K? K.[/QUOTE]

I'm perfectly willing to review evidence not related to or funded by agenda driven political machines, which is what you usually provide.

Trq is mostly correct here. It is a he said she said scenario.

What's sad to me is how quickly anti-war people are to condemn any military personal implicated in situations like this without using the legal system. They are very quick to judge our own soldiers, but also very much for throwing tons of money and rights at possible terrorists at guantamano. Ah, the beauty of the loony left....

I'd never join the military simply because of how quick Americans are to turn against you for trying to do your job. They hold you to the highest responsibility with the lowest pay and benefits. If you have to account for every single shot fired in a war, and stand trial for every bullet hole, we've neutered our military.

I'm not defending them. Simply stating that people's thoughts on this case, sadly, fall into party lines.

 

[mykevermin]

[quote name='thrustbucket']I'm perfectly willing to review evidence not related to or funded by agenda driven political machines, which is what you usually provide.[/QUOTE]

 

[Trancendental]

[quote name='thrustbucket']What's sad to me is how quickly anti-war people are to condemn any military personal implicated in situations like this without using the legal system. They are very quick to judge our own soldiers, but also very much for throwing tons of money and rights at possible terrorists at guantamano. Ah, the beauty of the loony left....[/quote]

Not really sure what you're talking about.

I don't believe in prolonging the war but at the same time I think you have to give the troops some latitude to get the job done. I think many war protesters are the same way. In this instance, from what trq said, it doesn't seem justice has been done but I'd read a few more news articles before having a solid opinion either way.

Also who wants to throw tons of money at the Guantanamo prisoners? The arguement is over whether torture is justified in the absence of a ticking time bomb. Also can you tell me why they don't deserve a fair trial before they are imprisoned?

 

[trq]

[quote name='camoor']Not really sure what you're talking about.

I don't believe in prolonging the war but at the same time I think you have to give the troops some latitude to get the job done. I think many war protesters are the same way. In this instance, from what trq said, it doesn't seem justice has been done but I'd read a few more news articles before having a solid opinion either way.

Also who wants to throw tons of money at the Guantanamo prisoners? The arguement is over whether torture is justified in the absence of a ticking time bomb. Also can you tell me why they don't deserve a fair trial before they are imprisoned?[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I'm all for due process across the board. I actually called this outcome some time back, because you have to know it's impossible to prove premeditation with something like this. Not sure why the prosecution went for it, honestly -- they were tossing out immunities left and right, which tends to show they knew they had a weak case. It's war -- mistakes happen. But there were *so* many inconsistencies, it's pretty clear the Marines knew they did wrong.

Anyway, that's the system: though the standards are different, even with military tribunals, we don't convict on "yeah, it's pretty likely" -- we have to be *sure*. Again, the O.J. Simpson comparison is apt. We all pretty much know he did it. But "beyond a shadow of a doubt"? That's another matter entirely. It stinks sometimes, but the system is meant to work like that.

I'm not such a fan of the "oh, the liberals jumping to conclusions, trying to bad mouth our heroes without evidence" schtick. Like I said, that pretty much ignores the fact that the marines killing over a dozen civilians accidentally and lying about it remains the best case scenario. Certainly not something to be proud of.