Dawkins Vs The Pope

Trancendental

Trancendental

CAGiversary!
Feedback
4 (100%)
RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”.
Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.
The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.
The Pope was embroiled in new controversy this weekend over a letter he signed arguing that the “good of the universal church” should be considered against the defrocking of an American priest who committed sex offences against two boys. It was dated 1985, when he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which deals with sex abuse cases.
Click to expand...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7094310.ece

I can not think of many media figures that are more tone deaf then Richard Dawkins and the Pope. If the church's abuses were not so evil and tragic this whole thing could easily be a storyline for the WWE.
 
I have to agree with Dawkins. As many scandals as there have been over the past few decades, it's expected. I mean, every time you turn around you see another article about some priest who molested some boy, and it's just plain wrong that they get away with it because they're with the church.

Then again, we (the public) don't exactly know all the details. But from what we do know, I'd say that a legal battle like this could put an end to some of these acts.
 
Hopefully some priests get put in jail. Seriously, they conspired to try to keep priest from going to prison after molesting children. Scientologies early members are in prison, why can't priest go to prison as well.
 
Yeah if this was a pre school or some shit, wouldn't people call for the firing of the teachers and the principal? Justsayin.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If the pope was imprisoned, what would be the response of Catholics worldwide?[/QUOTE]

The answer to that question contains the real motivation of Dawkins, not bringing justice to victimized kids.
 
Does Dawkins have a history of fighting the good fight for any other victim?

No.

His legendary rabid hatred for religion drives him to seize upon any possible component for what he perceives as potential faith atom bomb for any religion.
 
Well, I don't follow the man all that closely, so I'll have to take your word on his "legendary rabid hatred", yeah? But as far as "things that'll make people atheists" go, this is a fucking shitty one. Even if you get initial success, there's no staying power.
 
I don't care if you like Dawkins or not, but if you aren't seeking out the punishment of the pope, you have to answer from the side of covering up child molestation.
 
Yes, he is very outspoken in his anti-theism. His motivation in doing this being an attack on religion above but not to the exclusion of the kids is the correct stance. Religion holds more people captive than were victims in this scandal, and secondarily, made this crime possible. The fish rots from the head.
 
[quote name='rabbitt']I don't care if you like Dawkins or not, but if you aren't seeking out the punishment of the pope, you have to answer from the side of covering up child molestation.[/QUOTE]

.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']myke, if I recall you are/were catholic - do you advocate a papal witch hunt?[/QUOTE]

A Papal witch hunt - that's some good irony right there.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']It is.

So I haven't been following this that closely. Is there enough evidence to call the pope a criminal proper?[/QUOTE]

It depends on the country. In the US, probably. However, he was either in the Vatican or some other country in Europe.
 
[quote name='Archfiend']The Pope was a Hitler youth.[/QUOTE]

I hope you do realize that nazi youths were forced to not because they wanted to become nazis
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']It depends on the country. In the US, probably. However, he was either in the Vatican or some other country in Europe.[/QUOTE]

Also take into account that his defense is currently "diplomatic immunity".
 
[quote name='camoor']Also take into account that his defense is currently "diplomatic immunity".[/QUOTE]

He is technically the leader of an independent country. I'm not defending him but it's not like he's some middling diplomat trying to get out of a DUI. Are you just as pissed at the late Pope John Paul II?
 
[quote name='depascal22']He is technically the leader of an independent country. I'm not defending him but it's not like he's some middling diplomat trying to get out of a DUI. Are you just as pissed at the late Pope John Paul II?[/QUOTE]

Was PJP2 covering up for pedophiles? I don't remember.
 
I was kind of amused by this until I saw who was behind it. Dawkins is like a troll for Christianity. It'll go nowhere, though it should. It's a publicity stunt.
 
[quote name='depascal22']He is technically the leader of an independent country. I'm not defending him but it's not like he's some middling diplomat trying to get out of a DUI. Are you just as pissed at the late Pope John Paul II?[/QUOTE]

Thrust asked whether there was enough evidence to charge the Pope with a crime.

In my view, the fact that the Pope is using diplomatic immunity as his defense speaks volumes. As you mention the Vatican is technically a country, but they don't have the leverage to throw around diplomatic immunity like China or Russia. When the Pope pulls this defense out of the legal bag of tricks it's basically akin to cashing in his 'get out of jail free' card.

I am not a lawyer, but I do know that diplomatic immunity is not bulletproof (as does anyone who has seen the beginning of 300 or the end of Lethal Weapon II :D ) Seriously though:

www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/08/diplomatic-impunity-qatari-official-stir-trouble-assignment/
 
[quote name='camoor']In my view, the fact that the Pope is using diplomatic immunity as his defense speaks volumes. As you mention the Vatican is technically a country, but they don't have the leverage to throw around diplomatic immunity like China or Russia. When the Pope pulls this defense out of the legal bag of tricks it's basically akin to cashing in his 'get out of jail free' card. [/QUOTE]

He may not be able to throw his weight around like China or Russia, but you can't really minimize the fact that the Pope certainly has the heft to throw his weight around and make people take notice. While the country he leads is negligible at best, he is the leader of a church that boasts over a billion members. Throw the Pope in jail, and you're likely to have a huge population angry at you, which undoubtedly would include several countries.

I would hazard a guess that most counties would be far too afraid of what fallout would occur if they were to charge the Pope with a crime. Unfortunately, any sense of accountability and justice would have to come from within the church itself, but I'm not really holding my breath considering a lot of the Church's reactions to this. It's also unfortunate that, as the leader of a religion, it's not like he has to worry about running for reelection or that his followers are right on his doorstep, waiting to throw him out if he missteps. Unless people were to start leaving the Church in droves, it really doesn't have a lot to worry about.

Not that I'm saying that is a good thing. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing some countries start putting pressure on the Church to clean up their act and prove that this sort of thing isn't going to happen again.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Was PJP2 covering up for pedophiles? I don't remember.[/QUOTE]

This has been going on for decades. He had to have known something.
 
[quote name='depascal22']This has been going on for decades. He had to have known something.[/QUOTE]

yeah, I saw one story about how he just looked the other way when a close colleague was accused of molestation.
Here it is: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7086738.ece
This Austrian cardinal Hans Groer molested 2,000 kids from his flock over the decades and John Paul simply looked the other way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Cantatus']He may not be able to throw his weight around like China or Russia, but you can't really minimize the fact that the Pope certainly has the heft to throw his weight around and make people take notice. While the country he leads is negligible at best, he is the leader of a church that boasts over a billion members. Throw the Pope in jail, and you're likely to have a huge population angry at you, which undoubtedly would include several countries.

I would hazard a guess that most counties would be far too afraid of what fallout would occur if they were to charge the Pope with a crime. Unfortunately, any sense of accountability and justice would have to come from within the church itself, but I'm not really holding my breath considering a lot of the Church's reactions to this. It's also unfortunate that, as the leader of a religion, it's not like he has to worry about running for reelection or that his followers are right on his doorstep, waiting to throw him out if he missteps. Unless people were to start leaving the Church in droves, it really doesn't have a lot to worry about.

Not that I'm saying that is a good thing. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing some countries start putting pressure on the Church to clean up their act and prove that this sort of thing isn't going to happen again.[/QUOTE]

I agree, that's why I think Dawkins is tone-deaf. Till now the story has been nothing but bad press for the Catholic church. Now Dawkins is offering himself up as a punching bag that's sure to be popular with the ever-faithful. I can imagine Bill Donahue triumphantly fist pumping the air as he read this story.

On the other side, I think that if the Pope was innocent, or felt he could win the case by pleading innocent, he would at least mention it.

I mean - when the US arrested that Qatari diplomat in the plane incident, the guy tried to explain that he had been smoking and had unfortunately made a terrible joke before any talk of diplomatic immunity.
 
It's painfully obvious that the catholic church has had no interest in addressing this in the past. John Paul II hoped it would just go away and so has Benedict. He's only addressing it now because everyone knows about it.
 
[quote name='camoor']I agree, that's why I think Dawkins is tone-deaf. Till now the story has been nothing but bad press for the Catholic church. Now Dawkins is offering himself up as a punching bag that's sure to be popular with the ever-faithful. I can imagine Bill Donahue triumphantly fist pumping the air as he read this story.[/QUOTE]

Definitely agree with you on this. If anything, the Catholic church certainly has experience with making martyrs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top