Democrats facing Wipeout in midterm elections

[quote name='Ruined']Not to mention, I offered a whole lot more evidence than anyone else did[/QUOTE]

this
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']The lack of a single payer system was probably the biggest concession.[/QUOTE]


actually I'll be honest... I really couldn't care that much about it to look it up... but as I recall how the health care thing went down.

It was passed in the Senate and House, but they were different bills. Then Scott Brown was elected in a primarily blue state. In order to keep the republicans from a filibuster either the Senate or House had to accept the other one's bill. Neither one could agree to those terms so they made consessions to the house dems ( ie single payer system ) to remove certain items from the Senate bill in reconciliation as to avoid the filibuster.

That's pretty much how I remember it... I mean if it helps you sleep at night then go ahead and believe the consessions were made to the republicans.
 
[quote name='Afflicted']That's pretty much how I remember it... I mean if it helps you sleep at night then go ahead and believe the consessions were made to the republicans.[/QUOTE]

If you actually believe there were concessions to be made that would actually get Republicans to vote for a healthcare bill then you must lie to yourself everyday.
 
[quote name='Msut77']If you actually believe there were concessions to be made that would actually get Republicans to vote for a healthcare bill then you must lie to yourself everyday.[/QUOTE]

That's a bit harsh, he could be completely and thoroughly ignorant.
 
I could see how one could say that there were no concessions made on the grounds that:
- Nearly the entire thing from the outset were ideas that Republicans have championed for over 40 years, from Nixon to Romney.
- You cant really make concessions if the whole of what Republicans wanted was NO.

Your (afflicted) recollection of how the health care thing went down is only the very last part of the process. Before it was passed by either house, it sat in various small committees for weeks/months, trying to appease various Republicans like Chuck Grassley, Olympia Snowe/Susan Collins. Secondarily - any corporatist Democrat that was going to side with the Republicans (Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, etc).

Its probably not accurate to say that we lost single payer because it was never on the table. We did lose expanding the age at which one becomes eligible for Medicare. We lost the public option. We took out all price controls. We had to lower the percentage of money taken in that insurance companies have to spend on actual coverage (ended at 85%). We had to add absurd restrictions to abortion. We had to add that illegal immigrants cannot purchase insurance in the exchange, even with their own money. Theres no employer mandate. Theres no individual mandate (The one present is a fiction).
 
So, Democrats, in spite of having complete control of both houses of Congress and the White House, just had to make all these concessions so that the Republicans could end up not voting for the bill - and it passes anyway.

I mean, I totally agree to pay someone $25 to mow my lawn, then still pay them when they don't actually mow it.
 
Yes, congressional democrats are idiots. Most of them (plus the President) really thought that it was either worth negotiating, or that it was actually possible. They should've cut them completely out. Some of the progressive wing knew all along and were shouting it from the rooftops, but their number and power are small.

Though I find it slightly more useful to look at the opposition from both sides as being a matter of how corporatist they are. Like our good friend Joe Lieberman. If you add the number of corporatist democrats to the entirety of the republican party, you end up with majority control of both houses.

Of course this ignores that we've set it up so that the minority can rule in the Senate.
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720'] If you don't like Obama get out of the thread. Make some shitty Hillary thread.[/QUOTE]

^
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[quote name='Msut77']If you actually believe there were concessions to be made that would actually get Republicans to vote for a healthcare bill then you must lie to yourself everyday.[/QUOTE]

Actually I think I said that the concessions made were to get dems to vote for it not republicans... I never stated what I thought it would take to get republicans to vote for it. But then again I'm used to you just half reading what others post and making comments about it.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart'] Before it was passed by either house, it sat in various small committees for weeks/months, trying to appease various Republicans like Chuck Grassley, Olympia Snowe/Susan Collins. Secondarily - any corporatist Democrat that was going to side with the Republicans (Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, etc).[/QUOTE]

Um... yes most bills do sit in small committees for weeks/months. The only concession I recall from those were the concession for a trigger for public option for Snowe... most anything else was for either dems or independents.
 
[quote name='Afflicted']yup... Obama's talk of bi-partisanship was bull... see we do agree on something.



Yes... all the concessions they made to a few dem senators to buy their votes (IE: Ben Nelson) was to avoid the filibuster. Oh... you were saying they made concessions to the republicans? Would love to see a list of those.[/QUOTE]
....I never thought I'd meet a brick wall capable of typing.
 
[quote name='Afflicted']Actually I think I said that the concessions made were to get dems to vote for it not republicans[/quote]

So is this you admitting there wasn't anything the Democrats could have "given" Republicans to get them to vote for anything resembling healthcare reform?
 
[quote name='cindersphere']I have not the time nor patience to deal with children.[/QUOTE]

Aye, aye Captain.

In other news, a little kid threatened to hold his breath until he passed out because his parents wouldn't buy him a new Wolverine figure. The kid never passed out and the parents never bought the toy. Weird.
 
meh, im just voting non-incumbent this election. which is pretty much going to be repubican because im in california. for governor though... man, i dont even want to think about that race.
 
[quote name='Msut77']So is this you admitting there wasn't anything the Democrats could have "given" Republicans to get them to vote for anything resembling healthcare reform?[/QUOTE]


Ok I'll put my 2 cents here... I can't speak for the republicans in office. But the way reform was handled there is nothing they could have "given" me to get me to vote for it in it's current form. I would personally like to have seen smaller tweaks over several years than one bill to "solve all the problems" when you have no actual idea of the cost. Sure you can take the CBO's estimates... but that's not something I'm willing to bet on with the sweeping changes that were proposed.

So giving my state money to pay for medicare from the federal government would not have bought my vote.
 
I thought I stated way back when that it was going to be an incumbent slaughterhouse of republicans and democrats this november. Everyone laughed and laughed and said "who is going get elected then?" And then I laughed and laughed.
 
[quote name='Knoell']I thought I stated way back when that it was going to be an incumbent slaughterhouse of republicans and democrats this november. Everyone laughed and laughed and said "who is going get elected then?" And then I laughed and laughed.[/QUOTE]

super-cool-story-bro.png
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[quote name='Knoell']I thought I stated way back when that it was going to be an incumbent slaughterhouse of republicans and democrats this november. Everyone laughed and laughed and said "who is going get elected then?" And then I laughed and laughed.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and the Republican reps and their rich backers are laughing and laughing at the people like you who are just going to give them more power and money. So everyone is having a good time.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah, and the Republican reps and their rich backers are laughing and laughing at the people like you who are just going to give them more power and money. So everyone is having a good time.[/QUOTE]

lol to you believing voting democrat is any different.
 
[quote name='Afflicted']Ok I'll put my 2 cents here... I can't speak for the republicans in office.[/quote]

It isn't any really big mystery what the congressional Republicans positions were, but then again you have admitted to not really giving enough of a shit to learn a damned thing.

But the way reform was handled there is nothing they could have "given" me to get me to vote for it in it's current form.
Click to expand...

Do you think our healthcare system was perfectly fine as it was?

I would personally like to have seen smaller tweaks over several years than one bill to "solve all the problems" when you have no actual idea of the cost... but that's not something I'm willing to bet on with the sweeping changes that were proposed.
Click to expand...

The bill that passed was so weak and incremental it hurts.

Sure you can take the CBO's estimates...
Click to expand...

Really not sure why anyone should take you seriously.

So giving my state money to pay for medicare from the federal government would not have bought my vote.
Click to expand...

Is there any changes you would like to have seen?
 
It's pretty standard that when times are tough the ruling party gets tossed out. But it's very depressing that the American people think they have no other choice but another party that will just fuck them with a different brand of lube.
 
I don't know much about politics, but all that I've concluded about the last couple of years is that the Left is too wishy washy and that the Right is absolutely terrifying.
 
[quote name='Knoell']lol to you believing voting democrat is any different.[/QUOTE]

Pointing out that both parties have flawed candidates is just a lazy way to avoid responsibility for your political viewpoints. The fact is that the Democrats are different, and I could point to a myriad of policies from healthcare to the stimulus.

[quote name='panzerfaust']I don't know much about politics, but all that I've concluded about the last couple of years is that the Left is too wishy washy and that the Right is absolutely terrifying.[/QUOTE]

IAWTC
 
I wish we could have some William Jennings Bryan type who would rail against Wall Street, and fight for the common people, but you know, didn't lose three times. Oh, and a new populist party.
 
[quote name='IRHari']^there's a reason why progressives like Russ Feingold so much[/QUOTE]

I'm proud that Feingold is from my state.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']It's pretty standard that when times are tough the ruling party gets tossed out. But it's very depressing that the American people think they have no other choice but another party that will just fuck them with a different brand of lube.[/QUOTE]

Why the two-party system sucks so much. I can't say as I'm entirely pleased with the Democrats the past couple years, but what is my choice? Support the Republicans? Not enough time has passed for me to think they'll be any better in control. (Of course, their fear mongering is a huge turn-off for me as well.)

I may just be voting for a bunch of 3rd party candidates this go around.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']How about it, Ruined? Are you looking forward to more tax cuts, seeing as how you were frustrated by the stimulus package? Tell us, we're waiting to hear what you want - you just say you want Republicans back, but can't be bothered to elaborate what that means policy-wise. Does it mean more tax cuts? Huh? Huh? Huh?[/QUOTE]

Homeboy never answered my question. Way to dine and dash on this thread. Can't even have a basic conversation with someone because they can't answer a rudimentary question, and then they return to the thread crying foul (and avoiding the topic of discussion entirely) when you make fun of them for it, saying how they won't respond to you because you made fun of them.

Nanny nanny boo boo, ruined a fucking infant who can't engage in reasoned debate, how about you?

...

...

...

...there, that should do the trick to bring him back in here.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Homeboy never answered my question. Way to dine and dash on this thread. Can't even have a basic conversation with someone because they can't answer a rudimentary question, and then they return to the thread crying foul (and avoiding the topic of discussion entirely) when you make fun of them for it, saying how they won't respond to you because you made fun of them.

Nanny nanny boo boo, ruined a fucking infant who can't engage in reasoned debate, how about you?

...

...

...

...there, that should do the trick to bring him back in here.[/QUOTE]
Myke's name calling is the same as the Quran burning.

Stop being insensitive!
 
Im still of the mind there should be no democrats or republicans in office at all. They shouldnt be allowed.

I never understood how you can have 2 groups of people with different views running a country and making choices for it. One side might have a great idea but the other will oppose it simply because they arent on their side. Too much arguining, to much back biting and too much bitching. Besides, how can you make good choices when your only willing to stand on one side of the fence.
 
[quote name='gargus']Im still of the mind there should be no democrats or republicans in office at all. They shouldnt be allowed.

I never understood how you can have 2 groups of people with different views running a country and making choices for it. One side might have a great idea but the other will oppose it simply because they arent on their side. Too much arguining, to much back biting and too much bitching. Besides, how can you make good choices when your only willing to stand on one side of the fence.[/QUOTE]

Things would be much better if just one person was in charge.

Misc-Rolleyes.jpg
 
[quote name='Quillion']Myke's name calling is the same as the Quran burning.

Stop being insensitive![/QUOTE]

I wouldn't call it being insensitive, stupid is a much better word for both actions.
 
Sadly it will probably happen. I really hate democrats, they are a bunch of pussies in general. Though the only group I hate more are the republicans. So in a two party system I am pretty much stuck. There really needs to be 4 parties so they siphon votes from both dems and repubs, otherwise it would be too much advantage to one group or another.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I wouldn't call it being insensitive, stupid is a much better word for both actions.[/QUOTE]

If people were capable of having integrity and standing up for themselves and their ideals, then I'd only be coarse in my tone, and not insulting.

Motherfucker came in here to drop some talking points about how he hated the stimulus, so he looks forward to Republicans regaining control of both houses of Congress. I have enough integrity to admit, much to my chagrin, that he's correct.

But in the meantime, I won't pass up an opportunity to point out that Ruined is a cheerleader for a team, for a brand, and not for ideas - and ideas are what underlie politics (in an ideal universe, to be sure).

Why? Because he hated the stimulus, and how it added to the deficit - so he can't wait to see Republicans elected into Congress so they can enact Republican economic policies. What are Republican economic policies? Tax cuts. Seriously, are there *any* Republican economic ideas that can't be summarized as "tax cuts"?

So when he derides the stimulus package, part of which was over $300 BILLION IN TAX CUTS, and he supports electing politicians that will pass TAX CUTS, I'm going to call him out not for being a partisan hack, but for being the political equivalent of a dumbass sports fan who is convinced, game in and game out, that the other team is cheating and getting away with it, and that the referees are calling "everything" on *his* team.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you're the Henny fucking Youngman of the vs forum. Your juvenile and irrelevant one-liners are as consistent as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. You've spent a lot of time in these forums and contributed nothing of any value. So when you want to drop the "take my wife, please!" schtick, and come in here and exchange ideas on a level that uses posts of more than seven words, then you can pretend like you have enough clout in these parts to tell people what's what. In the meantime, you're just the curtain jerking opening act, guy.
 
It amazes me how some people go on insult-filled, cursing tirades about how they can't seem to carry on a conversation with other people.

It's like someone driving down the middle of the highway, complaining about all those crazy drivers out there.
 
I was nice until this point, fuckpot, and he hasn't come back and said shit.

Now he will, decrying insults all the way. It's the nature of the beast. If I said "awww, pwease mistew woo-ined, PWEASE come back and talk?" do you think he's do it? Of course not. He's a gas-and-go motherfucker, so fuck him and fuck you for all your cock-fucking distracting. Stay the fuck on topic for a change, reach for that bar, meet that challenge head on for the first time in your life.

You wanna get yer doctor thunder in a wad because I'm not nice? How about you step the fuck up and answer a question first?

EDIT: I tripled my shaq-fus from the last post to this, so there's your opportunity to avoid having a discussion and repeat some blather about how I used bad words. Get on it, hombre. Time's-a-wastin'.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I was nice until this point, fuckpot, and he hasn't come back and said shit.

Now he will, decrying insults all the way. It's the nature of the beast. If I said "awww, pwease mistew woo-ined, PWEASE come back and talk?" do you think he's do it? Of course not. He's a gas-and-go motherfucker, so fuck him and fuck you for all your cock-fucking distracting. Stay the fuck on topic for a change, reach for that bar, meet that challenge head on for the first time in your life.

You wanna get yer doctor thunder in a wad because I'm not nice? How about you step the fuck up and answer a question first?

EDIT: I tripled my shaq-fus from the last post to this, so there's your opportunity to avoid having a discussion and repeat some blather about how I used bad words. Get on it, hombre. Time's-a-wastin'.[/QUOTE]

Some people have more productive things to do with their life than sit on a political subsection of a videogame forum posting all day.

On the other hand, apparently some don't.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Some people have more productive things to do with their life than sit on a political subsection of a videogame forum posting all day.

On the other hand, apparently some don't.[/QUOTE]

Some people spend their time learning about what is sometimes called policy.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Some people have more productive things to do with their life than sit on a political subsection of a videogame forum posting all day.

On the other hand, apparently some don't.[/QUOTE]
Yet you find the time to reply to him.
 
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