Discussion about newer systems burning out...

STATIC3D

STATIC3D

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I was in EB talking to a clerk that I chat with when I go in. We were talking gaming (duh...lol) and about these newer systems being so "high tech" compared to older (lower tech) systems. We were discussing buying systems on the used market (garage sales, ebay, etc.) where you have no way to test them out. With newer systems (including XBOX/PS2/GC) being more high tech, it seems as if there's just more that can go wrong with them compared to the older ones. I first noticed this with used Dreamcast systems. While often easy to fix, there is more than can (and sometimes does) go wrong with them.

The clerk agreed and said he has been suprised by how many burned out XBOX 360's they have had come in. He said there were 7 or 8 he had from just one week to be sent in (to GS/EB facility). One person he knows has had his XBOX 360 into MS so many times that it's past the 90 warranty period, and, MS was giving him problems about it even thou they have had the thing in their hands more often than he has during that 90 days.

Just for the heck of it one day, I did an ebay search for broken XBOX 360s just to see what would pop up and was shocked by how many I found. I like high tech as much as the next guy, but I prefer solid tested tech that's not going to give out so quickly (and possibly be a bust of a purchase on the used market down the road). Anywho, I'm just wondering if anyone else has heard of these newer systems (360/PS3/Wii) giving out easily?

(I would have put this under Microsoft section, but I'm asking about more than just XBOX 360 systems.)
 
I don't know about 360 or PS3, but I've seen it alot with the original xbox. I have 3 of them and only one works. I have heard the 360 has issues too, but haven't experienced any yet. The PS3 and Wii are still to new, but I suspect we'll hear of horror stories with them too. I think a big part of the problem is how hot these new systems run. It started with the original xbox, and now the PS3 and 360 both run way to hot.
 
I've said it for awhile now but I really think that video game hardware design has taken a step backwards. I realize that DVD has allowed for more space to dedicate to a game but...we have to deal with more moving parts. So we get longer load times, more hardware failures, and more aggravation. Not that a Genesis would last forever but they sure seem a lot more durable now. Solid state memory is always more expensive though which keeps us using the disc formats. With some little memory cards reaching 4 or more GB's it would be possible to use them but development costs are high enough without adding expensive memory into the mix. I think Nintendo was smart in sticking with it at least for the DS though.
 
I originally started messing around with fixing broken Dreamcasts. They are not too hard to fix if you know what you are doing and I've only had one that was beyond repair (even thou a part could be replaced which would fix it). XBOX on the other hand has a lot more to it that can go wrong (not to mention all the part versioning crud).

I agree on the step backwards stuff. I know part of it is the price we pay for the power. But, I think with all the "things" that have (or can) be done with newer systems we may see a bit of a slowing down on things like what happened in the PC gaming realm. It was really stong as it was the only place to play the higher end games. However, there was a price to pay for that (both monetary and in messing with setting/drivers/etc.). Once consoles started reaching a higher end graphically, combined with their ease of use, made it a LOT easier for people to get into gaming (thus consoles boomed and PCs slowed).

I don't think we are gonna have another crash, but, there could be a little slow down until things are ironed out with these newer systems. Then again, perhaps everyone will just go out and buy a wii...lol.

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Something else that sorta has to be kept in mind is that all these newer systems with patches (fixes/backwards compatability/etc.) is something that was never done for console games in the past either (you just purchased a FINISHED product and it was supposed to work). This patch stuff is something that's gonna SUCK years down the road when considering if you wanna buy that XBOX 360 or PS3 at a garage sale if avenues for accessing those patches are no longer around. DOH!
 
The more complex a machine becomes, the greater the chance that something will go wrong with it.

I had to replace the dvd drive in my xbox once, but the only systems that Ive ever had to repurchase cos they just died are Sony's. Ive had to buy both a second PS1 and a PS2. And every single friend I have has had to do the same thing with their Sony systems. So Im in no rush to run out and buy a $600 systems that I may have to rebuy again in 2-3 years. Ive never had any problmes with Nintendo, tho it should be noted that the Wii is only their second disc based system and it just came out, so we shall see.
 
Yeah, I've swapped out a DVD drive in XBOX before too. At least it's something fairly easy to fix that way. Some systems become so integrated that if something dies, you are stuck. I'm just suprised there hasn't been more made of having to buy a second console (like you did with PS1/PS2s). I mean, sure the PS2 is still outselling the XBOX 360, but perhaps that's because everyone is just having to replace their first one that broke...lol. :}
 
[quote name='Puffa469']The more complex a machine becomes, the greater the chance that something will go wrong with it.

I had to replace the dvd drive in my xbox once, but the only systems that Ive ever had to repurchase cos they just died are Sony's. Ive had to buy both a second PS1 and a PS2. And every single friend I have has had to do the same thing with their Sony systems. So Im in no rush to run out and buy a $600 systems that I may have to rebuy again in 2-3 years. Ive never had any problmes with Nintendo, tho it should be noted that the Wii is only their second disc based system and it just came out, so we shall see.[/QUOTE]

I'd count a busted DVD drive as a "death". Most aren't knowledgable enough to crack open the case and swap out the drive, plus tha voids any warranty, and there's the ability to get parts. If you don't have knowledge of all that, which the average buyer doesn't, then the system is for all intisive purposes dead. It's not a computer, I shouldn't have to replace the DVD drive after a year of use (which you shouldn't even have to do in a computer). My Thompson drive xbox was nothing but trouble for the mear 14 months it lasted, constant disk read errors and freezing, then it just quit reading games altogether. Sure I replaced the drive, but that Xbox still failed me. Just because cheap parts are used and you have the knowledge and means to replace said cheap parts doesn't mean that console didn't fail at it's job which is to supply with some at least dependibility in it's use.

As for the track records of system failures, my count stands at 2 xbox systems, only 1 PS1, 0 PS2s (yes mine from just over 5 years ago still runs just fine). The duration of a console's life is a crapshoot really, with the different and sometims cheaply made parts all the makers use it's no wonder. Plus let's not forget that alot that has to do with how long a console lasts is how well people take care of it and after working retail for a few years I've learned that most people take crappy care of alot of the tings they buy even if it costs them hundreds of dollars. Sometimes the things just break sure, but other times "user error" plays a big role, especially when it comes to "gaming laymen" or the youngin's who may not fully know what can damage a console. You see it alot with PSP and Gameboys/DSs. Parent's think that the PSP is just as durable as a gameboy was, not knowing it has a thousoand moving parts and such, so they buy it for an eight yr old who's bound to make a mistake and drop it or something. As concole's evolve and gain more complexity, you'll probably see more and more systems damaged by something a user unwittingly did while thinking "well my older _____ system could take it, so this one should too".
 
I think this is mostly a Microsoft thing. Their hardware just isn't as reliable, and quite possibly that's because they don't manufacturer it, nor do they have the same standards the other companies do.

Sony's about average, meaning it's probably not going to break, it's well built, etc. I've never had any kind of failure on Sony hardware (and yes, I've had a six year old PS2 also). Nintendo's stuff's just been crazy reliable.

The DS and Wii seem like they have a better chance of breaking just because of all their components though, but still I bet Nintendo's designed them better than most companies do.

This is one of the reasons I lost all interest in X-Box 1 games after I found out 360 wasn't backwards compatible. Being able to play my old games is a BIG deal to me (otherwise, what's the point in buying at all?) With the Playstation 1 and 2, I know I can run them on the Playstation 3. With the X-Box I can't, and I have zero faith that it'll last (though I have more faith in the X-Box 1 than 360, personally being on my third, and knowing that over half my friend's 360's have been replaced at least once). I've also got a friend who's been through a PS2, but he's the only one.

Early PS1's stunk though with their plastic gears and stuff. Also a lot of Playstation problems seem to just be calibration issues. Though why you can calibrate stuff at all makes no sense to me (can't it just be "locked" in place?)
 
The only reason I didnt count my xbox dvd drive as a system death was because at the time, a new Xbox was $200, and a new dvd drive was only $65. BUT: i do understand that I was only able to save that money due to me having some pretty geeky knowledge (swapping out drives) that I know most average consumers wont have. Other than that I agree with you totally.


[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I'd count a busted DVD drive as a "death". Most aren't knowledgable enough to crack open the case and swap out the drive, plus tha voids any warranty, and there's the ability to get parts. If you don't have knowledge of all that, which the average buyer doesn't, then the system is for all intisive purposes dead. It's not a computer, I shouldn't have to replace the DVD drive after a year of use (which you shouldn't even have to do in a computer). My Thompson drive xbox was nothing but trouble for the mear 14 months it lasted, constant disk read errors and freezing, then it just quit reading games altogether. Sure I replaced the drive, but that Xbox still failed me. Just because cheap parts are used and you have the knowledge and means to replace said cheap parts doesn't mean that console didn't fail at it's job which is to supply with some at least dependibility in it's use.
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Talked to another EB clerk today about XBOX 360s (failures/etc.) and he said they increased the price on their warranty due to the amount of problems on systems.

And, while not confirmed, he also said some people that work at another local company said they saw warehouse facilities last year with XBOX 360's waiting to be shipped out (but just sitting there) even thou demand was high and noone had them in stores. This was also mentioned in reguards to the Wii that Nintendo is holding onto consoles (not releasing ones ready to go) in order to keep demand high at this point in time. While rumor mill, something to grind on...lol.
 
Is this the company doing that, or just some store? Best Buy did that last year with the 360, which sucks IMO, but I have a really hard time beliving Microsoft did it.

With Nintendo...I don't know. Something's up because their real numbers are WAY lower than they claimed. So either they're having manufacturing issues, or they really are holding some. Which would be COMPLETELY idiotic for them. I think THIS YEAR is the best chance for Nintendo to get the Wii out there and build market share as fast as possible. As PS3 and 360 drop in price and get bigger libraries that increasingly use their power, Wii will look like worse and worse of a deal.
 
From what I heard, it was the company and not the store doing the holding back on systems (which in either case still sucks...lol).

I agree on this year being the best time with low competition. XBOX 360 has the been there done that feel (not that it suck or anything, just we've seen it and these other 2 systems are new by comparison). The PS3 is nearly vaporware by comparison. Sure, people have heard of the PS3, but how many that would be willing to shell out $600 have seen em? (lol).

More people would be willing to drop $250 on a wii JUST to have something new/fun to play (even if they don't end up using the thing to it's fullest extent). From what I heard, many people looking for the wii now are those that got to see it around the Thanksgiving holiday timeframe and thought it was "neat". $250 is still a decent purcahse, but compared to $400 - $600, it looks pretty good for something that's just "fun" to play (i.e. doesn't have/require that more hardcore gameplayer edge to it simply based upon price too).
 
This makes me weary about investing money into my 360. I just ordered a hard drive for it, hopefully everything works out smoothly. I haven't even been able to try my 360 yet, its still in its box at home.



Static3d, I have a question for you. My Dreamcast occasionally resets on its own, sometimes while playing, or when you pause for a minute, it will kick to the main menu as if there was no cd in. Do you know what to do?
 
Based on my experience, sounds like a laser getting out of adjustment. When the DC can't read a disc (one isn't in the machine or it's too scratched up) it's designed to go to the main menu screen. It takes a little bit of work to tweak one, but you can usually get it dialed in to read good.

I'll PM you a link to a file to download and check out with DC repair info on the 3 most common DC errors (one being the laser adjustment).
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I think this is mostly a Microsoft thing. Their hardware just isn't as reliable, and quite possibly that's because they don't manufacturer it, nor do they have the same standards the other companies do.

Sony's about average, meaning it's probably not going to break, it's well built, etc. I've never had any kind of failure on Sony hardware (and yes, I've had a six year old PS2 also). Nintendo's stuff's just been crazy reliable.

The DS and Wii seem like they have a better chance of breaking just because of all their components though, but still I bet Nintendo's designed them better than most companies do.[/quote]
Tell me this is a joke post, really.

The Xbox was hardly perfect, I'll admit that. Older DVD drives needed to be replaced, but at least they function well with a new drive. You have to give Microsoft credit incorporating a high-capacity hard drive into a console for the first time, and having very few problems with it. But who are you to say Microsoft's hardware isn't reliable, and honestly, what do you know about their standards? Nothing. Unless you have a reliable link with solid information proving Microsoft's standards are that much lower, you're just spewing bullshit.

What really makes me want to hear my hair out is that you call Sony's hardware "average". Did everyone forget the whole DRE fiasco, or is it just you? I've had to send my PS2 in three times before I finally broke down and bought a slim model. You do realize a lawsuit had to be filed against them just to make them repair these DREs?

I know you did acknowledge Nintendo makes solid hardware, but the fact that you suggest Nintendo's Wii or DS will have a high chance of breaking without mentioning how bad the PSP's hardware is takes all credibility out of your post. The DS has been out for over two years and it still has no major problems.

You know that old saying, "Think before you speak"? That transfers to the internet too.
 
[quote name='STATIC3D']Based on my experience, sounds like a laser getting out of adjustment. When the DC can't read a disc (one isn't in the machine or it's too scratched up) it's designed to go to the main menu screen. It takes a little bit of work to tweak one, but you can usually get it dialed in to read good.

I'll PM you a link to a file to download and check out with DC repair info on the 3 most common DC errors (one being the laser adjustment).[/QUOTE]

This is exactly why I don't like it when consoles reset when the disc is ejected :(

[quote name='xghostsniperx']But who are you to say Microsoft's hardware isn't reliable, and honestly, what do you know about their standards? Nothing. Unless you have a reliable link with solid information proving Microsoft's standards are that much lower, you're just spewing bullshit.[/quote]

Wow. Defensive much? By Microsoft's own admission the 360 has had a higher than normal defect rate, and ironically a lot of the defects were ones the X-Box had too. You'd have to have your head in the sand not to notice all the problems X-Box hardware's had this past year.

What really makes me want to hear my hair out is that you call Sony's hardware "average".
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Consumer Reports? Sony makes some of the most reliable hardware on the planet. It's not incredo-reliable like Nintendo's stuff, but it's certainly at least average (or better than average by consumer electronics standards).

I know you did acknowledge Nintendo makes solid hardware, but the fact that you suggest Nintendo's Wii or DS will have a high chance of breaking
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I didn't say they have a high chance of breaking, I said they have a higher chance of breaking than older Nintendo hardware, which is self evident.

without mentioning how bad the PSP's hardware is takes all credibility out of your post.
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Huh? The PSP's hardware's been rock solid. There were some reports of a few issues with the original Japanese release, but nothing since then. (Waits for senior biased to pull up some report of a broken PSP :roll: )
 
Wow. Defensive much? By Microsoft's own admission the 360 has had a higher than normal defect rate, and ironically a lot of the defects were ones the X-Box had too. You'd have to have your head in the sand not to notice all the problems X-Box hardware's had this past year.
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You never specified Xbox 360, therefore I had no idea you were referring to the 360. Plus you never came up with any proof at all about Microsoft's "lower standards".

Consumer Reports? Sony makes some of the most reliable hardware on the planet. It's not incredo-reliable like Nintendo's stuff, but it's certainly at least average (or better than average by consumer electronics standards).
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We're talking about video game consoles, right? I don't know how you can possibly say the PS2 was reliable. Again, I will bring up the DRE that were rampant during the PS2 fatty era. Did you forget that it took Sony four years to release a decent PS2 model? Now, I'm don't know all that much about consumer reports, but unless they test multiple models over long periods of time, their data means very little.

Huh? The PSP's hardware's been rock solid. There were some reports of a few issues with the original Japanese release, but nothing since then. (Waits for senior biased to pull up some report of a broken PSP :roll: )
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Tell that to my PSP and other launch PSPs. If you go inside of it, all the buttons have great response but the X button. It's off-center because Sony didn't want to make the PSP any bigger. While "Senor biased" did pull up a PSP defect, I never said PSPs break all the time.
 
[quote name='xghostsniperx']You never specified Xbox 360, therefore I had no idea you were referring to the 360.[/quote]

I'm refering to both, but obviosly I'm referring to the 360 too when it's 2006 and I'm talking about Microsoft game systems.

Plus you never came up with any proof at all about Microsoft's "lower standards".
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Again, Microsoft themselves has finally admitted they've had a problem. And they're not a hardware company. Sony and Nintendo both have reputations for making reliable high-end hardware. Microsoft's first "big" consumer electronics products both have a reputation for failing, the 360 even more than the original X-Box.

We're talking about video game consoles, right? I don't know how you can possibly say the PS2 was reliable. Again, I will bring up the DRE that were rampant during the PS2 fatty era. Did you forget that it took Sony four years to release a decent PS2 model?
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That's completly bogus and you know it. Of course there were defective Playstation 2 units, there are for any hardware. You can find dead Gamecube's too, that doesn't mean there's a pandemic of them.
And yes Consumer Reports findings are meaningful. If every other product they sell is at least average reliability, the Playstation line isn't going to be any different.

Tell that to my PSP and other launch PSPs. If you go inside of it, all the buttons have great response but the X button. It's off-center because Sony didn't want to make the PSP any bigger. While "Senor biased" did pull up a PSP defect, I never said PSPs break all the time.
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You claimed the PSP hardware is "bad". You don't even know what button it is that's different on the PSP, and don't know that any widespread issues with it were fixed before the American release.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']That's completly bogus and you know it. Of course there were defective Playstation 2 units, there are for any hardware. You can find dead Gamecube's too, that doesn't mean there's a pandemic of them.
And yes Consumer Reports findings are meaningful. If every other product they sell is at least average reliability, the Playstation line isn't going to be any different.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, it seems like you just don't know what you're talking about. Playstation 2's are the most unreliable home gaming console ever produced. No exagerations. Sony had a lawsuit filed against them. That's a fact. EVERYBODY (again, no exageration) I know has had their PS2 die on them. My PS2 from 2001 died. My girlfriend's PS2, which I'm borrowing, worked fine two months ago. Now, it won't read PS1 games, blue discs, or CDs. It even gives me trouble with DVD-ROMs and movies. I will never buy a Sony product at full price again. EVER. Open you're eyes. Jeez, check the PS2 forum. If you can't see that Sony put out a faulty piece of hardware, you're delusional.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']Honestly, it seems like you just don't know what you're talking about. Playstation 2's are the most unreliable home gaming console ever produced. No exagerations.[/quote]

Wow. That's amazing. And you know this how?

Sony had a lawsuit filed against them. That's a fact.
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So? Mcdonald's was sued because their coffee was hot. And there were recent game-related suits that made no sense at all. Doesn't mean anything.

EVERYBODY (again, no exageration) I know has had their PS2 die on them.
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Then you either don't know many people with PS2s, or have hit some kind of statistical near-impossibility. The vast majority of people have PS2s that work just fine. I personally know of only one person who's PS2 died (and it was six years old). Even just from personal experience that doesn't begin to compare to the 360.

If you can't see that Sony put out a faulty piece of hardware, you're delusional.
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Or could it be you're a fanboy? Nah.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']Honestly, it seems like you just don't know what you're talking about. Playstation 2's are the most unreliable home gaming console ever produced. No exagerations. Sony had a lawsuit filed against them. That's a fact. EVERYBODY (again, no exageration) I know has had their PS2 die on them. My PS2 from 2001 died. My girlfriend's PS2, which I'm borrowing, worked fine two months ago. Now, it won't read PS1 games, blue discs, or CDs. It even gives me trouble with DVD-ROMs and movies. I will never buy a Sony product at full price again. EVER. Open you're eyes. Jeez, check the PS2 forum. If you can't see that Sony put out a faulty piece of hardware, you're delusional.[/quote]Exactly.

This is hoenstly the first time I've ever heard anyone defend the quality of the PS2 hardware. Even people who are pretty exclusively Sony gamers will admit that their hardware is random at best and poorly made at worse. I owned a PS2 (slim) for about 4 months and had a few issues even with that reading some brand new games (and I bought the system brand new as well).
 
Uh huh. Sure you did. Geez fanboys, you can like your Nintendo and Microsoft systems. Doesn't mean you need to bash Sony.

You know you're a fanboy when you call Sony hardware "poorly made" :lol: Geez.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Uh huh. Sure you did. Geez fanboys, you can like your Nintendo and Microsoft systems. Doesn't mean you need to bash Sony.

You know you're a fanboy when you call Sony hardware "poorly made" :lol: Geez.[/quote]What?

Anyway, I'm glad you've had good experiences with the PS2 built quality. I had issues with both my PS2 (the short time that I had it) and my Xbox (about 3 years worth). A friend of mine from school can't play anything but pristine DVDs on his PS2 (fat). My Gamecube hasn't had an issue, but I've only had it for less than a year.

Sony used to be the king of all hardware of any type. However, in the past 10 years or so they kinda let their name sell their stuff rather than its quality. So now, they're for the most part no better than their competeors, and more expensive. That being said, I think their consumer electronics hardware is of a far superior build quality than their gaming hardware.

Hardware fails, that's a fact of life. When Sony continues to make shoddy consoles and refuses to make their own imcompetence right without a class-action lawsuit, that's when they lose my respect.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Uh huh. Sure you did. Geez fanboys, you can like your Nintendo and Microsoft systems. Doesn't mean you need to bash Sony.

You know you're a fanboy when you call Sony hardware "poorly made" :lol: Geez.[/QUOTE]

I am certainly not a Nintendo or Microsoft "fanboy" as you apparently like to label everyone who has a different opinion from you. I have owned exclusively Sony video game consoles since the Playstation came out. I loved my Playstation, and I love my PS2, but, the PS2 hardware is simply poorly made. I have owned no less than four PS2s (3 fat, 1 slim). My first two systems suffered crippling DREs within four months of me owning each one. The third one had it's memory card slots simply stop working, though it lasted for a good two-three years. I have had no problems with my slim system (knock on wood), but just like before, I made sure to get Best Buy's extended warranty. Is this type of experience common? I don't know. I have a friend whose launch system still runs perfectly. Obviously, you are happy with yours. However, my own experience makes me wary of Sony hardware, and I have heard sufficient reports from other people (also not anti-Sony fanboys) who have had similar problems to make me feel that my experience was not as unique as I had hoped. I still support Sony, and I want them to do well, because I think they have had a very positive impact on gaming, but I do think they have some quality control issues.
 
[quote name='strummerbs']I am certainly not a Nintendo or Microsoft "fanboy" as you apparently like to label everyone who has a different opinion from you. I have owned exclusively Sony video game consoles since the Playstation came out. I loved my Playstation, and I love my PS2, but, the PS2 hardware is simply poorly made. I have owned no less than four PS2s (3 fat, 1 slim). My first two systems suffered crippling DREs within four months of me owning each one. The third one had it's memory card slots simply stop working, though it lasted for a good two-three years. I have had no problems with my slim system (knock on wood), but just like before, I made sure to get Best Buy's extended warranty. Is this type of experience common? I don't know. I have a friend whose launch system still runs perfectly. Obviously, you are happy with yours. However, my own experience makes me wary of Sony hardware, and I have heard sufficient reports from other people (also not anti-Sony fanboys) who have had similar problems to make me feel that my experience was not as unique as I had hoped. I still support Sony, and I want them to do well, because I think they have had a very positive impact on gaming, but I do think they have some quality control issues.[/QUOTE]

If you're serious, that's an amazing string of bad luck. Can't imagine the odds on that! If something like that happened to me I'd be leary of it too (Asus motherboards!) Odds are against it happening to you again though. It would be almost impossible to get that many dead 360's, let alone Sony hardware.
Hmm, if that happened to me though I'd probably give up on Sony's stuff (although I haven't completely given up on the 360, and I'm on my third.)
 
I don't know how you can lable us Microsoft or Nintendo fanboys simply because we are criticizing Sony's hardware. PS2 was my favorite console last gen, but it was easily the most poorly made console.
 
[quote name='xghostsniperx']I don't know how you can lable us Microsoft or Nintendo fanboys simply because we are criticizing Sony's hardware. PS2 was my favorite console last gen, but it was easily the most poorly made console.[/QUOTE]

That's impossible to say for sure. I really doubt the X-Box was anywhere near as reliable as the PS2, but there's nothing to back that up.

If you guys really aren't fanboys, then I'm sorry. I've just felt overwhelmed by crazy ranting fanboys on this forum of late, mostly ones who are anti-Sony for no apparent reason. Claims about the PS2 hardware being bad smack of that, so I just assumed it was more of the same.
 
Somehow, against all odds, my launch Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2 and 360 all still work. I must be lucky! The only hardware problem I have had with a system was with my first PS1 and that was just the spindle hub wearing out from heavy use.
 
I am of the mind that the Ps2 was made rather shoddy, as well. Please hear me out. Of the last gen consoles, I only owned the Ps2 and the hardware failures on this machine are extraordinary. Every friend of mine who's ever owned a Ps2 has had to replace the console on multiple occasions (making me feel quite lucky). I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of games or simply bashing Sony to bash them. Get real. If and when a system breaks on you, you're pissed. No matter how great you find the software. My diehard friends now who can afford the Ps3 have no desire to buy one until it proves itself reliable. These are guys and gals who refuse to play any other system. Myself, I jumped to the Wii but when the Ps3 is more affordable I'll keep my eye out for it. But again, given the track record I will tread with caution. For a fan of Sony it's sad that this should have to be a consideration when purchasing their product.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Wow. That's amazing. And you know this how?



So? Mcdonald's was sued because their coffee was hot. And there were recent game-related suits that made no sense at all. Doesn't mean anything.



Then you either don't know many people with PS2s, or have hit some kind of statistical near-impossibility. The vast majority of people have PS2s that work just fine. I personally know of only one person who's PS2 died (and it was six years old). Even just from personal experience that doesn't begin to compare to the 360.



Or could it be you're a fanboy? Nah.[/QUOTE]

I'm hardly a fanboy. I have a PS2, GC, Xbox, and Wii, and I'm planning on getting a 360 soon. I'll get a PS3 eventually, but I'm just too broke right now. I love all console manufacturers equally. However, the PS2 had technical problems. There is just no getting around this. No, I can't show you a document that proves this, though I'm sure there is one out there. But even as you accuse me of pulling things of out my ass and calling them facts, your argument seems to be based purely on your own personal speculation:

[quote name='Wolfpup']The vast majority of people have PS2s that work just fine.[/quote]

Wow. That's amazing. You know this.... how? Sony had a lawsuit filed against them. That's a fact. You're McDonald's comparison has absolutely no weight; comparing apples to oranges does not a valid point make. Here's something to chew on, though: if the 360 has a worse track record than the PS2, why hasn't Microsoft had a class action lawsuit brought against them? I'm not saying the 360 is perfect by any means, it's not at all. I know plenty of people who have had their 360 die on them. The 360 less reliable than the PS2? Possible. But until you show me the numbers (there are none, of course), we only have one concrete piece of evidence to contrast: Sony was forced, by law to repair mounds of PS2s. Microsoft has, up to this point, not.
 
I'm no fanboy either I have all systems except Nintendo products. Mr. Anderson didn't Microsoft just agree to fix the defect in the 360 and refund the money of the people who had already paid for the known defect? I think they also threw in a extended warranty for free. One might think this was to keep from being sued, maybe. Who knows, but it doesn't boost my confidience in Microsoft( have had many bad experiences with there software). I'm not saying any system is more reliable than another. I believe it is a throw of the dice when you buy the newer consoles. I can say from my own experience the original xbox was very unreliable. From the disc error reads to complete failures. I have two broken ones in my basement, and have to say it is the only system I've ever had to replace. Just my opinion thought I'd throw it out there.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']
Wow. That's amazing. You know this.... how? Sony had a lawsuit filed against them. That's a fact. You're McDonald's comparison has absolutely no weight; comparing apples to oranges does not a valid point make. Here's something to chew on, though: if the 360 has a worse track record than the PS2, why hasn't Microsoft had a class action lawsuit brought against them? I'm not saying the 360 is perfect by any means, it's not at all. I know plenty of people who have had their 360 die on them. The 360 less reliable than the PS2? Possible. But until you show me the numbers (there are none, of course), we only have one concrete piece of evidence to contrast: Sony was forced, by law to repair mounds of PS2s. Microsoft has, up to this point, not.[/QUOTE]

MS has been sued, more than once actually. Nothing's been resolved yet I dont think, but that no lawsuit claim is not really a leg to stand on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4502572.stm

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6399669.html

http://www.engadget.com/2005/12/05/lawsuit-claims-microsoft-knowingly-sold-defective-xbox-360s/

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061208-8381.html

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051205-5687.html

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEyVuyplEVDceEKWRH.php

Personally I heard of more dead 360s in the first year than I heard about dead PS2s in its first year. Maybe it's all rumors and talk, or my crappy memory, but like you said we don't have numbers so you infer whatever you feel like from what you hear and personal experience. Persoanally I odn't think fanboyism has much of anything to with it. However, when it comes to consumer electronic performence most of it is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. I feel like everything is built cheaply and poorly except Nintendo products, but my guess if I talk to some guy that had a couple DS systems with dead pixels or so he'd have a different opinion. It's not jusy game systems either. I'll be selling phones at work and some people will on occasion have an issue with getting a Panasonic phone (which are usually some of the highest rated by places like consumer reports and such) simply because they had a problem with one Panasonic phone once. And like I said that can be applied to just about anything in just about any consumer field.
 
Yup, one bad experience can sour you on something. I mean it's possible to have a Gamecube die on you while you 360 or X-Box keeps on running.

And no, we have no numbers to back anything up since companies would never release them, but the Playstation 2's sold more than an order of magnitude more units than the X-Box ever did, and what, 50x more than the 360? Yet from both personal experience and stories on the web, I've heard of far more problems with the 360-and seen more problems with demo units for that matter.

It's like when Cheapy had his PS2 fall off his entertainment cabinet and it had been on, running for 3 days straight suspended by it's cords but still worked fine-that was hardly a shock. It's just like "yeah, that's Sony hardware for you". You can get bad units from them, and they're not crazy over the top reliable like Nintendo, but they're good. They're like Panasonic or Toshiba is too-you just expect their stuff to work.
 
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