Disgruntled troops complain to Rumsfeld...

[quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.
 
[quote name='jmcc']
A strawman fallacy is when you take someone's argument, then make up a weaker version of it that you can refute and pretend you refuted the original. For example [from Wikipedia again]

Fred: "Poverty is one factor that causes crime".
Alice: "You're wrong to claim that all poor people are criminals. My friend Jack is poor, but he is not a criminal!".

Opposing the war but supporting troops doesn't qualify.

What you're saying , however, is "you can't oppose the war because that means you want the troops to die" which IS itself a strawman fallacy.[/quote]

My mistake for using fallacy in conjuction with stawman. I meant it to mean strawman as though a man made of straw from a distance appears to be real yet upon closer inspection has no real substabance.

As I don't deal in coloquialisms my mistake.

And no, what you attributed to me is not what I mean. You know what I mean, don't distort it.

Or were you making a strawman fallacy out of my argument?
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='jmcc']
A strawman fallacy is when you take someone's argument, then make up a weaker version of it that you can refute and pretend you refuted the original. For example [from Wikipedia again]

Fred: "Poverty is one factor that causes crime".
Alice: "You're wrong to claim that all poor people are criminals. My friend Jack is poor, but he is not a criminal!".

Opposing the war but supporting troops doesn't qualify.

What you're saying , however, is "you can't oppose the war because that means you want the troops to die" which IS itself a strawman fallacy.[/quote]

My mistake for using fallacy in conjuction with stawman. I meant it to mean strawman as though a man made of straw from a distance appears to be real yet upon closer inspection has no real substabance.

As I don't deal in coloquialisms my mistake.

And no, what you attributed to me is not what I mean. You know what I mean, don't distort it.

Or were you making a strawman fallacy out of my argument?[/quote]

No, that's what you meant. That was the end result of your argument. If you oppose the war, then more troops die. You were implying that opposing the war means you want troops to die. I'm well aware it's a pathetic argument, so I just assumed you were aware also. I guess it looks worse when you see it boiled down and realize what you're saying.
 
[quote name='jmcc']No, that's what you meant. That was the end result of your argument. If you oppose the war, then more troops die. You were implying that opposing the war means you want troops to die. I'm well aware it's a pathetic argument, so I just assumed you were aware also. I guess it looks worse when you see it boiled down and realize what you're saying.[/quote]

No what I meant is that people who rely on that statement need to undestand the ramifications of their position. Refer to my abortion analogy.

Some naively believe that position helps the troops by getting us out, whereas others in an attempt to discredit the current administration could care less, deaths of America troops are a mere by-product.

As for calling my argument pathetic, I think it shows you are just up against a wall and have no where to go. I have been consistent. You found a combination of words I was using that is some coloqial comment you are aware of.

Bravo.

CTL
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]

It passed through an IP associated with the DoD, so I believe you.

Not really, but that sounds cool.

It didn't come from America, though.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?
 
By the way, this was not the first time Rumsfield was asked about armor on the humvees. He was also asked back in May. This is the transcript:

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040513-secdef0747.html

About halfway down the page is the relevant part:

Question. Here's a mike, and anyone who has a question, why don't you wander towards one of the fellows with mikes? There's one right here. Good.



Q How you doing, sir? (Inaudible.) I have force protection questions, sir.



SEC. RUMSFELD: You have what?



Q Force protection.



SEC. RUMSFELD: General Myers. (Laughter.)



Q Sir, my unit, the 2nd Brigade -- (inaudible) -- Cav, we have five out of the six red zones in this country. And with the up- armored humvees, the new -- (off mike) -- humvees they're bringing over with the -- (inaudible) -- those doors are not as good as the ones on the up-armored humvees -- (inaudible). We even lost quite -- we lost some soldiers due to them, and we're trying to make a change -- (inaudible). The question is, are we going to get more up-armored humvees?



And the second question I wanted to ask is, they have the new -- (inaudible) -- vests out that covers your -- (inaudible). We need those because we have taken some casualties due to the shrapnel from IEDs going through the side. The front parts are good, but the sides are not.



Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
This may be slightly off topic but I didn't think it was worth its own post.

It is absolutely self serving and biased of certain writers who are crucifying Donald Rumsfeld in print, on video, and on radio yet never mention the responsibility of the president as Commander in Chief.

These are individuals, like Will Cristol, who are finally coming around to the fact that this war has been handled incompetently. Any, ANY reasonable individual, has to recognize that fact. Yet they say nothing during the election. But as soon as the election is over, wham, they do a 180 and call for Rumsfeld head. Never, ever mentioning the responsibility of the president.

It's is blatantly self serving.
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.[/quote]

Typing of the Dead, anyone? :lol:
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.[/quote]

Typing of the Dead, anyone? :lol:[/quote]

Hey man, I don't think that's a cool thing to say. I may disagree with CTL on alot of issues but I respect that he's fighting a tough war for America.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.[/quote]

Typing of the Dead, anyone? :lol:[/quote]

Hey man, I don't think that's a cool thing to say. I may disagree with CTL on alot of issues but I respect that he's fighting a tough war for America.[/quote]

What are you talking about? I think you completely misinterpreted my meaning there. I meant in Typing of the Dead you type while killing zombies, and CTL was saying he could fight bad guys while arguing on this board (typing messages). I'm sorry if anyone misunderstood that.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.[/quote]

Typing of the Dead, anyone? :lol:[/quote]

Hey man, I don't think that's a cool thing to say. I may disagree with CTL on alot of issues but I respect that he's fighting a tough war for America.[/quote]

What are you talking about? I think you completely misinterpreted my meaning there. I meant in Typing of the Dead you type while killing zombies, and CTL was saying he could fight bad guys while arguing on this board (typing messages). I'm sorry if anyone misunderstood that.[/quote]

ok I guess I don't get the joke.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='David85'][quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='Quackzilla']Hey, CTLesq, I don't believe you are in Iraq. Why don't you prove it by sending an email to [email protected]

That is a major claim to make, and if you are lying you will have stooped to a level I didn't believe you could stoop to.[/quote]

Done.[/quote]


Why don't you go kill some bad guys then in stead of always agrueing on this board?[/quote]

I can do two things at once.[/quote]

Does that mean you are typing with one hand? :)
 
[quote name='ZarathosNY']Does that mean you are typing with one hand? :)[/quote]

Its the only way to survive in this shit hole of a country. I still maintain Kuwait was worse. It smelled like total shit. At least here it doesn't smell and if it did they at least would have a reason.

And I didn't take elprincipe's comment as I should go die for the record. I didn't understand it, but I didn't think he meant that.
 
[quote name='CTLesq'][quote name='ZarathosNY']Does that mean you are typing with one hand? :)[/quote]

Its the only way to survive in this shit hole of a country. I still maintain Kuwait was worse. It smelled like total shit. At least here it doesn't smell and if it did they at least would have a reason.

And I didn't take elprincipe's comment as I should go die for the record. I didn't understand it, but I didn't think he meant that.[/quote]

When you were in Kuwait, was that when the oil wells were still burning? That would explain the smell.
 
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